facebook Twitter RSS Feed YouTube StumbleUpon

Home | Forum | Chat | Tours | Articles | Pictures | News | Tools | History | Tourism | Search

 
 


Go Back   BanglaCricket Forum > Cricket > Cricket

Cricket Join fellow Tigers fans to discuss all things Cricket

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old June 30, 2009, 01:29 PM
Raynman's Avatar
Raynman Raynman is offline
Cricket Legend
 
Join Date: February 27, 2008
Location: Georgia, USA
Favorite Player: Richard Hadlee, Shakib
Posts: 2,180
Default ICC Future: What it needs to be

I know this is similar to a couple of threads I've opened before but this is something I really feel strongly about. I have tweaked the initial ideas based on comments/criticism from this board as well as numerous other fellow cricket followers of many different countries. The solution has also been structured differently to make it easier to understand (I hope). If you feel strongly about it as I do, lets see if we can get an online campaign started and somehow get the attention of ICC (maybe through Cricinfo if any one has a way). The article summarizes a full schedule, points out the benefits to ICC, the fans and the individual boards. If you have questions on why a specific team should agree to this, ask and I will explain thoroughly.

Cricket is at a crossroads now. With three formats, each makings its own case for survival and expansion and the rise of domestic T20 leagues bolstered by the success of IPL, International fixtures are at the center of discussion with the stakes higher than ever. Cricket needs revamping, pure and simple. Below is a solution for a 3 year ICC cycle.


Benefits:
• Preserve all three formats: Tests, ODI, T20
• Each year will have a major event in international cricket and crown a champion in a different format
• Preserve the core values of Test Cricket
o Test of skill
o Strategy planning of declarations and follow ons
o Ability to bat out a draw
• Make all International matches Meaningful
• Allow growth of cricket by providing more countries with opportunities
• Provide schedules to be balanced across countries
• Allow countries to have domestic schedules (including IPL, P20 etc.) without a unpredictable international schedule
• Advanced schedule allows for better planning, especially as only 2 years need to be planned in advance
• Domestic tournament schedules can be created to focus on first class, ODI or T20 in preparation for the upcoming major event
• Give power back to ICC for International scheduling instead of individual Boards deciding which bi-lateral series’ are more lucrative and worthwhile. Note that bi/multi-lateral series’ can still be arranged but will need to revolve around the established schedule (see year three of Test cricket for availability)
• Better rest for cricketers to prevent fatigue

Notes: Political & Security issues (current PAK/ZIM situations) will have to be handled by the countries in question providing an alternate venue or forefeiting as the FTPs are home/away game based.

Test Cricket

Schedules: Years 1 & 2 (2012-2013, 2015-2016, 2018-2019 etc.)

1.Create divisions based on current rankings:
a. Division 1 : AUS, SA, IND, ENG, SL
b. Division 2 : PAK, WI, NZ, BAN, ZIM
c. Division 3 : IRE, CAN, KEN, SCO, NED,

2. In a two year period Each team plays home and away 3 game series within division (Initially for DIV 3 it will be 2 game series’)
3. Each team gets 24 games in 2 year period with 12 home and 12 away (2 home and 2 away series annually) (for DIV 3 it will be 16 games at 8 & 8 home/away and 8 games annually)

Summary
Every country plays 12 test matches for a total of 48 days of annual test time (Tests will be four days – see later). In Tests, the #5 team in Div 1 is demoted to the Division 2. The champion in Div 2 is promoted to Division 1. The runners up in DIV 2 gets a shot at a 5 test series against the number 4 from DIV 1 for promotion/demotion. The number 4 team from Division 1 gets home field in a 2-2-1 format. The top two teams from DIV 1 will play a 5 game series in the same format above for the Test championship. In the event of tied points at the end of the series the higher ranked team (DIV 1 #1 and DIV 1 #4) will be considered the victor. The Champion from DIV 3 gets a 2 game home and 2 game away test series against the number 5 from DIV 2. Once the gap between DIV 3 and DIV 2 seems lessened based on results of these series' it could end up being a match for promotion/demotion.

Schedule: Year 3 (2014, 2017, 2020 etc.)

1. Test Championship between top 2 teams in DIV 1
2. Relegation match between DIV 1 #4 vs. DIV 2 #2
3. Series between DIV 2 #5 vs. DIV 3 #1
4. Inactive DIV 1 teams will have to schedule home and away series with inactive DIV 2 teams.

Summary
A test champion is crowned, the DIV 2 winner now gets to play with the big guns for the next cycle, DIV 2 gets a top 5 team in their group for the next cycle and if DIV 2 #2 wins against DIV 1 #4, the number of cross series across the test playing nations increase. With the inactive teams being forced to play each other in year 3, each of the traditional eight teams should have at least one home and one away series with each other which is what is required by the current FTP anyways. DIV 3 champion gets to test their skills against the 5th place finisher in DIV 2 and depending on the gap between the teams, this could become a relegation/promotion series in the future. If individual boards want to schedule matches outside of the test tournament they can do so this year (such as the Ashes) or any other year as long as they don’t disrupt the test championship schedule. This also give Test cricket growth without cluttering up the FTP.

Rule changes to Test Cricket to make the Championship work
1. Create a point system:
a. 3 for a win
b. 1 for a draw/NR
c. If multiple teams are tied at end of FTP with points separate by
i. Head to head points
ii. Number of wins
iii. Points vs. top team excluding the teams involved
iv. 1st inning net
v. Fewer wickets lost
vi. Coin toss
d. The above forces all games to be competitive
2.Restrict innings/overs
a. 80 overs per innings per day
b. In order to win you must capture all wickets of the opponents 2nd innings. If team can complete 2nd innings without losing all wickets they can secure the draw
c. Declarations allowed
i. 1st innings declaration : batting side can use remaining overs and wickets in their next innings
ii. 2nd innings declaration : Remaining overs can be used to try to capture the wickets of the opponent’s 2nd innings
d. If a team loses all its wickets the other team can use the remaining overs for their next innings
e. Follow on can be enforced based on a difference of 150 runs
3. 4 day game but 5th day scheduled as backup for bad weather etc.

ODI Cricket

Schedules: Years 1 & 2 (2013-2014, 2016-2017, 2019-2020 etc.)

Create 4 groups with 6 teams each
1. Each group will have 3 ranked nations (AUS, SA, IND, PAK, ENG, WI, NZ, SL, BAN, ZIM, KEN, IRE) and 3 other associates (SCO, NED, AFG, UAE, NAM etc.)
2. In a two year period each team plays each other 6 times (3 home, 3 away, 15 games annually)
3.Top four in each group to qualify for the World cup

Summary
In ODIs, 16 teams will have qualified for the World cup. This will allow 12 Associate nations (not counting KEN, IRE) to compete with at least 2 full test nations with 6 ODIs which will increase the global interest in cricket. The ODI world cup will have an initial pre tournament of the 4 fourth place finishers to determine the top 2 and combined with the other 12 teams participate in the full fledge portion of the World cup.

Schedule: Year 3 (2015, 2018, 2021 etc.)

World Cup Stage 1: 4th place group finishers from qualifiers play each other and top 2 teams advance
World Cup Stage 2: 14 teams split to groups of 7 for round robin league
World Cup Elimination Stage: QF, SF, F involving top 4 finishers of each group (A1-B4, A3-B2, B1-A4, B3-A2)

Summary
More opportunities for associates to make the WC. More traditional teams will have no excuse to complain about unfair early knockouts as each team will have 30 games to qualify and 6 games in the cup itself to make the knockout stage.

T20 Cricket

Schedules: Years 1 & 2 (2011-2012, 2014-2015, 2017-2018 etc.)

Create 4 groups with 5 teams each
1. Each group will have 3 ranked nations (AUS, SA, IND, PAK, ENG, WI, NZ, SL, BAN, ZIM, KEN, IRE) and 3 other associates (SCO, NED, AFG, UAE, NAM etc.)
2. In a two year period each team plays each other 6 times (3 home, 3 away, 15 games annually)
3. Top four in each group to qualify for the World cup
In T20s, 16 teams will have qualified for the World cup. This will allow 12 Associate nations (not counting KEN, IRE) to compete with at least 2 full test nations with 6 T20s which will increase the global interest in cricket.

Schedule: Year 3 (2013, 2016, 2019 etc.)

World Cup Stage 1: 2 groups of 6 league tournament
Group champions and runners up meet in the SF.

Summary
Same benefits as ODI. Not too much overkill as the WCs are three years apart and enough international games in between.
__________________
Welcome to wherever you are, this is your life, you've made it this far...

Last edited by Raynman; June 30, 2009 at 01:59 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old June 30, 2009, 01:34 PM
Akib's Avatar
Akib Akib is offline
Cricket Legend
 
Join Date: February 27, 2005
Location: Toronto, Canada
Favorite Player: Graeme Smith
Posts: 5,856

I actually like the 3 teir system you have.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old June 30, 2009, 02:11 PM
Tigers_eye's Avatar
Tigers_eye Tigers_eye is offline
Cricket Savant
 
Join Date: June 30, 2005
Location: Little Rock
Favorite Player: Viv Richards, Steve Waugh
Posts: 25,381

I am willing to listen. If you can convince me, then this will "sell" else "No".

I like, we like; would mean squat if the individual boards do not like. For instances, no second tier team boards would want to be there. This is the reality. Here are the questions:
1) Why would NZ, WI and Pak want to be in the second tier?
2) Why would England, India agree to the demotion/promotion rules? Are they crazy?

Discussion of Tier system ends here.
+++
Quote:
Cricket is at a crossroads now. With three formats, each makings its own case for survival and expansion and the rise of domestic T20 leagues bolstered by the success of IPL, International fixtures are at the center of discussion with the stakes higher than ever. Cricket needs revamping, pure and simple.
I agree 100% with this and this part only.
Now I will focus only on your "test" proposal. Let me say the ones I think are negatives first then I will talk about the positives.
Quote:
Give power back to ICC for International scheduling instead of individual Boards deciding which bi-lateral series’ are more lucrative and worthwhile. Note that bi/multi-lateral series’ can still be arranged but will need to revolve around the established schedule (see year three of Test cricket for availability)
Which world do you live in? Utopia? You think India, England would hand over power to the puppets they put there? (ICC agents)

In real world, this proposal would be first shot, then mutilated, and then left exposed just to show who is in charge.
Quote:
2.Restrict innings/overs
a. 80 overs per innings per day
Why? I love the fact Ricky Ponting gets dinged for over-rate every time he walks in the middle.
only two nagatives out of this. You are getting better with each time.
+++
Positives:
1) Test championship is due.
2) More FTP time is needed for T20 to keep the boards, players happy (revenue). [With the exception of BD ofcourse].
+++
Now I have a simple proposal of my own:
1) How about five/six years a cycle.
2) Two Divisions. North and South.
North: Eng, SL, Ind, Pak, BD.
South: Aus, NZ, SA, WI, Zim.

or

East: Aus, SL, BD, NZ, Ind
West: SA, Zim, Pak, WI, Eng

Each division teams plays each other 3 test series home and away with in the 5/6 years time. The winner of two division plays for championship pride home and away. More like US settings for championship on major sports. Round robin leagues doesn't work when each match takes 5 days to play and another 3 to 5 days to recover.

This would reduce the number of FTP series significantly. Which in return would let boards have their own T20 leagues, ab-jab danguly games etc.

Now, to solve the Ashes tradition or as such, individual teams can schedule as many tests, series outside the FTP to their liking. Just wouldn't be in ICC FTP.

No one gets demoted and their ego is intact.
__________________
The Weak can never forgive. Forgiveness is an attribute of the Strong." - Ghandi.

Last edited by Tigers_eye; June 30, 2009 at 02:19 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old June 30, 2009, 02:18 PM
Nadim's Avatar
Nadim Nadim is offline
BanglaCricket Staff
 
Join Date: September 16, 2008
Location: Guantanamo
Favorite Player: Innocent Bird
Posts: 42,261

Dude ICC won't follow what ur saying...btw thanx for the hard work
__________________
Kholi: I hated being on the bench and not playing
our gadhas: I love being on the bench as im getting paid anyway
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old June 30, 2009, 02:43 PM
nycpro96's Avatar
nycpro96 nycpro96 is offline
Cricket Legend
 
Join Date: December 17, 2007
Location: Albany
Favorite Player: Tamim Iqbal
Posts: 6,057

I like your system. Especially the test 3 tier system.
__________________
Reporter: You could hit the first ball for 4 couldn't you?
Tamim: Ha, I could hit the first ball for 6, that's not a problem.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old June 30, 2009, 02:46 PM
Raynman's Avatar
Raynman Raynman is offline
Cricket Legend
 
Join Date: February 27, 2008
Location: Georgia, USA
Favorite Player: Richard Hadlee, Shakib
Posts: 2,180

“I am willing to listen. If you can convince me, then this will "sell" else "No".”

Tigers_eye : I am glad to comply

Why NZ, WI & PAK shouldn’t complain

They will start in the 2nd tier based on current rankings. This may change by the actual implementation. Lets assume one of them will finish the champion & another runners up. If they end up as 4 or 5 in the division they really don’t belong in Tier 1 to begin with. Lets assume the NZ wins, PAK is 2nd and WI comes in 3rd in the division and lets assume ENG is 4 and SL is 5 in DIV 1. NZ has already played PAK & WI home and away. They will get to play AUS, IND, SA in the next cycle as the champion. If ENG beats PAK in the relegation series, they will play ENG too. All they have to do is schedule a home/away series with SL (Test Championship year) and they have met their current FTP. Actually better since they don’t always get 3 game series’ against all the Tier 1 teams. For PAK they have an opportunity to beat ENG and enjoy the same benefits. If they lose, they have played NZ, WI & ENG in the first cycle, they get SL in the next cycle which leaves them open to schedule games with AUS, IND & SA over the years. WI will have played PAK/NZ and SL in the 2nd cycle (maybe ENG as well). They will have to schedule 4 series’ to not lose out on matches. Now if they are considered a revenue generating team by the Tier 1 teams it shouldn’t be an issue. Otherwise, they will soon fall into the 2 test cycle that BD, SL & NZ seem to be in.

Why would England, India agree to the demotion/promotion rules? Are they crazy?

England & India are obligated to play all Test teams in the 6 or 8 year FTP anyways. If they are relegated then they are no worse off then they are today and if they don’t get relegated they get only ‘profitable’ matches in their eyes. Also if they are relegated then that means the team is not as strong. Ask any Indian fans how interested they were in Test cricket during the patches where India were not so strong. As for crazy, I believe I am. thats the general consensus of people around me anyways.

Which world do you live in? Utopia? You think India, England would hand over power to the puppets they put there? (ICC agents)

Its something that has to be done. Somebody of note needs to convince them if this is not done, cricket could be danger, especially Test cricket. Give BCCI and England windows for IPL and P20 as a compromise. The Ashes will happen regardless of ENG and AUS ranking. Now they have a less cluttered International window to worry about. India can focus on the revenue churning IPL. I have run this by many Indians and they think it makes sense. If the assumption is nothing will ever change then any discussion is pointless to begin with. Let BCCI and ECB come out and make the official statement, "We can not support this idea because we control ICC and thats the way it should remain." Lets see how that flies.

Over Rate

This is just a suggestion. But something needs to be done. The game needs to be made competitive instead of allowing the option of settling down to play for a draw. A first innings total should not guarantee a minimum of a draw because of the time it took to accumulate it.

N-E-W-S divisions

I think the idea has some merit but its the same issue of trying to have competitive matches and putting like skilled teams around each other. In US sports, the bottom of the barrells get the early picks in the draft and gets a chance of improving themselves quickly (excluding the LA Clippers, well maybe with Blake Griffin it will be different).

There needs to be an option for growth witch other countries to work towards something. 6 years is too long, why its almost as long as a ....wait for it.....Test cricket game.
__________________
Welcome to wherever you are, this is your life, you've made it this far...

Last edited by Raynman; June 30, 2009 at 03:11 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old June 30, 2009, 03:23 PM
Tigers_eye's Avatar
Tigers_eye Tigers_eye is offline
Cricket Savant
 
Join Date: June 30, 2005
Location: Little Rock
Favorite Player: Viv Richards, Steve Waugh
Posts: 25,381

Dear Raynman,
I am putting you at the spot. Say you are the ICC head and talking to NZ, WI, Pak board officials about why they need to be in the second Tier. Just as you are trying to convince me. They come back to you as "That faulty Test rankings?" Who cares. Make me. With out these three members you think ICC can run her all exclusive club? The One day, T20 events would go smoothly. ICC board is at the mercy of her members. Not the other way around. Same with England and Ind. In paper only they have to play the weak nations in 6-8 years (current format). In reality do they? When was the last time BD visited India? How about England facing Chigubura? Even Australia, NZ are showing resentments.

Tier 1 and Tier 2 in viewership, sponsorship can not be equal. Prize money would not be equal. Boards would never agree to that. Doesn't matter how much sense it makes. Instead of solving the growing concern just the proposal will create problems and animosity. There is enough between Ind - Pak, Pak - Eng, NZ - Zim, Aus - Zim, Eng - Zim already.

Change is good. But drastic change like this will create enemies. More power to you if you think this is even an option in the real world. Once someone has the power he/she/they would not relinquish. Specially our subcontinent people. We don't have Jim Browns.
__________________
The Weak can never forgive. Forgiveness is an attribute of the Strong." - Ghandi.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old June 30, 2009, 03:48 PM
Raynman's Avatar
Raynman Raynman is offline
Cricket Legend
 
Join Date: February 27, 2008
Location: Georgia, USA
Favorite Player: Richard Hadlee, Shakib
Posts: 2,180

Tigers_eye,

I see your point but change is needed. My proposal isn't so drastic as you make it out to be.

BI LATERAL series' are the business of the boards and they are free to schedule whatever they choose outside of ICC fixtures. The proposal is only a two year plan for the divisions so unless the team(s) become mediocre for a long period of time there should be a fair amount of matches between the traditional teams. In this plan, NZ and PAK would actually end up with more test matches than they are currently playing.

Viewership would increase given the nature of the tournament as each game would now be meaningful. Did anyone care about the WI/ENG 2 tests in ENG before the T20 world cup? Like I told you, I have done my research and fans would apparently enjoy this format over the current tests that happen today.

Our other option as the dear ICC is planning basically will be more of the same. Mark my words, Test cricket dead by 2020 (maybe with AUS & ENG only still playing).

Cricket exploded in India and the subcontinent after the ODI win in 83. If India wins a test championship believe me, they will make the money. If India doesn't have a team to compete, their fans don't care anyways. When was the last time you saw efigees being burnt over a test loss?

Its all about money. If marketed right, all the boards can benefit more than they are currently today.

As for the current rankings, despite its crappiness it is fairly accurate. The teams are pretty much ranked where they belong. NZ went a full year of no tests to prepare for the 2007 WC. If Tests were so lucrative for them, you think that would have been the case? India only gave them a third test to leave no gap between the series and IPL to close the window on ICL getting a shot at hosting another tournament.
__________________
Welcome to wherever you are, this is your life, you've made it this far...
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old June 30, 2009, 06:19 PM
al Furqaan's Avatar
al Furqaan al Furqaan is offline
Cricket Sage
 
Join Date: February 18, 2004
Location: New York City
Favorite Player: Mominul, Nasir, Taskin
Posts: 21,152

my thoughts...i had similar thoughts to raynman. but here are things i consider absolutely preposterous (call me a purist):

1) inherent nature of Test cricket. like the quran, it can't be changed...its not Test cricket anymore, its something else. 5 days, day matches w/ red ball, etc.

2) promotion/relegation: i'm all for promotion, but i hate this idea of relegation. teams should not be punished for being the weakest team in a division as a rule. besides in cricket, its highly cyclical and counter-productive. what will happen is BD will be relegated, then promoted, then relegated, then promoted...neither us, nor any other team stands to gain anything from this "one step forward, one step backward" futile excercise

otherwise i agree...a Test championship is longer over due, and perhaps the Test fold should be expanded to include 12 Teams. also, every team should play every other team. its OK to have divisions, and to play more games within ur division, but it shouldn't be division exclusive which is just bending over backward and acceding to the "tier" system some elitists argue for.

my idea: have 12 full, equal Test nations, but since ICC will hardly accept that, keep it to 10.

Division 1 (Australia, India, England, South Africa, Pakistan, Sri Lanka)
Division 2 (West Indies, New Zealand, Bangladesh, Zimbabwe, Ireland, Canada or next best team)

Each team plays 3-Test series with the other five teams in their division. Then you play 3-Test series against the 4 of the 6 teams in the other division, with 2 being home and 2 being away. This would be a 2-year schedule. That is 12 + 15 Test matches for each team in 2 years. The top 2 teams would be rewarded for consistent play over 24 months and play a final home and away 3 Test series (6 Tests total) to decide the Test champion. This would take a little over 2 years and fits perfectly.

I'm all for having at least 2 reserve days for each test in case of bad weather. For matches that still get drawn due to weather or due to 5 days of stalemate, there should be a points system to declare a "winner" for the purposes of ranking the teams. Runs/wicket ratio is the best thing I can think of which is still simple. Example of drawn match:

Team A: 600 all out and 200-8 dec
Team B: 525-4 declared and 50-2 (Target = 276)

Team A 800 runs/18 wickets = 44.4 * (6/575) = 0.464 points
Team B 575 runs/6 wickets = 95.8 * (18/800) = 2.156 points

Hence Team B is the clear cut winner, based on their batting and bowling, and these are the points they carry forward in drawn matches only. In other words, the draw still counts as a draw, and only when teams have equal win-loss ratios.

So each team will have played 27 Tests, so their possible wins is all equal at 27. So if two teams are vying for the 2nd spot in the rankings with Team C having 12 wins, 8 losses, and 7 draws and Team D having 14 wins, 10 losses, 3 draws, you can't just pick Team D and say they're better because while they won more Tests, they lost more too, and managed to draw fewer. In this case the drawn matches will add points. It may be that while Team C drew 7 matches, they were outplayed in 4 of those draws, whilst Team D "won" 2 of their 3 drawn Tests. Hence, the records now look like 15-12 for Team C and 16-11 for Team D. Hence Team D is the better team and beats Team C in the rankings. Notice that you used simple win-loss ratios holding drawn matches as "zero" points or "ties" as the current practice is, Team C would have come out on top with a 1.5 ratio over Team D's 1.4 ratio.
__________________
Bangladesh is a stronger team with Shakib al Hasan.
Bangladesh is a stronger team without Shakib al Hasan.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old June 30, 2009, 09:52 PM
Raynman's Avatar
Raynman Raynman is offline
Cricket Legend
 
Join Date: February 27, 2008
Location: Georgia, USA
Favorite Player: Richard Hadlee, Shakib
Posts: 2,180

Quote:
Originally Posted by al Furqaan

1) inherent nature of Test cricket. like the quran, it can't be changed...its not Test cricket anymore, its something else. 5 days, day matches w/ red ball, etc.
You realize that 5 days and the 6 ball over are both changes not the true original form.
__________________
Welcome to wherever you are, this is your life, you've made it this far...
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old July 1, 2009, 07:11 AM
zainab zainab is offline
Cricket Legend
 
Join Date: August 16, 2007
Location: Canada
Favorite Player: Ash,Tamim, Rahim,Sakib
Posts: 4,650

Many, many years ago, tests were the only form of cricket with only 4 or 5 teams competing against each other, tours were longer, public had no other choice but to watch cricket, also remember, before the advent of air travel, teams used to travel by ship, and they used to be away from home for nearly six months.

We now live in a modern world, ICC brought in the 60 over game, then trimmed it to 50 overs. Cricket is evolving all the time. There are many other sports that is competing for the public's attention, and if the ICC do not change with the modern times, then interest will wane. They are trying to attract the younger generation who like the 20/20 format which is only 3 and a half hours and there is a result.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old July 1, 2009, 07:17 AM
Sohel's Avatar
Sohel Sohel is offline
Cricket Savant
 
Join Date: April 18, 2007
Location: Dhaka
Favorite Player: Nazimuddin
Posts: 35,455

"Test cricket like the Quran" ... that's reductionist crazy talk at its best. I think there are better analogies, the ones that do not compare the divine writ for Muslims to Anglo-Saxon pastimes ...
__________________
"And do not curse those who call on other than GOD, lest they blaspheme and curse GOD, out of ignorance. We have adorned the works of every group in their eyes. Ultimately, they return to their Lord, then He informs them of everything they had done." (Qur'an 6:108)
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old July 1, 2009, 07:02 PM
al Furqaan's Avatar
al Furqaan al Furqaan is offline
Cricket Sage
 
Join Date: February 18, 2004
Location: New York City
Favorite Player: Mominul, Nasir, Taskin
Posts: 21,152

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raynman
You realize that 5 days and the 6 ball over are both changes not the true original form.
sure. but they don't change the inherent nature of the game, which is what capping innings to 80 overs aside would do.

besides, i am all for standardization, not alteration. making tests 5 days, using 6 ball overs were all things done to standardize the game, not really alter it. i oppose making it 4 days, because it doesn't really have any benefits over 5 days. i do however embrace the idea of reserve days to make up for time lost, which is something cricket should have incorporated from the beginning.

as with anything else, there will always be debate and disagreement...fortunately or unfortunately, the ICC will never make these suggestions reality.
__________________
Bangladesh is a stronger team with Shakib al Hasan.
Bangladesh is a stronger team without Shakib al Hasan.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old July 2, 2009, 09:02 AM
bharat bharat is offline
ODI Cricketer
 
Join Date: September 25, 2005
Posts: 914

I see a practical problem with the Tier System .This is more on the commercial side of it.

Say India does good , then its all good for ICC (in terms of economics) but if India does bad then the trouble brews.The money generated will be dropped by 70-80 % if India is pushed to the second tier .This happened in WC'07 and WC(20-20)09.Since the WC cups were short the ICC could bear the blow.

But think of a scenario where India gets into the second Tier or even the third tier !! Indian's as fans (like their counterparts in BD) have an attention span/mood swings of a 3 year old.If the 3 year old is happy he will play with toy given to him.Try making him play with the same toy when he is not happy !!

This happenened with Indian hockey , until the '80's when the Indian's were top of the world hockey was followed like crazy.But when the Indian team fell from the big league (didnt have a chance at WC or the Olympics) the Indian fans were unforgiving..Hockey is now at its last legs
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old July 2, 2009, 09:33 AM
Raynman's Avatar
Raynman Raynman is offline
Cricket Legend
 
Join Date: February 27, 2008
Location: Georgia, USA
Favorite Player: Richard Hadlee, Shakib
Posts: 2,180

India is a financial powerhouse in cricket no doubt. But the goal for ICC should be to promote cricket and increase the fanbase/viewership and hence the money. Test cricket doesn't draw the real money spenders (working class as opposed to kids and students) because they don't have the time to watch the whole thing and therefore, advertisers are too to keen to sponsor.

If the interest is created with meaningful competitive games, with each match having a purpose and the excitement factor is there throughout the game as opposed to the 1st and maybe last two sessions, Cricket can thrive without relying on India so heavily.

Test needs ODI and T20 revenue to survive. Thats why there should be some sort of meaningful competition there too instead of the bi lateral series.'

Again, individual boards are free to arrange bi-lateral series' as much as they want, just not at the expense of ICC set FTPs.

We could take the easy way out and let India remain a fixture in the Tier 1 and give them an automatic qualification to the T20 and ODI WC semis.
__________________
Welcome to wherever you are, this is your life, you've made it this far...
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old July 2, 2009, 10:23 AM
Tigers_eye's Avatar
Tigers_eye Tigers_eye is offline
Cricket Savant
 
Join Date: June 30, 2005
Location: Little Rock
Favorite Player: Viv Richards, Steve Waugh
Posts: 25,381

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raynman
We could take the easy way out and let India remain a fixture in the Tier 1 and give them an automatic qualification to the T20 and ODI WC semis.
semis? One and done? We will only watch the big blue once in a tournament? Sponsors won't be happy!!

I would rather make it little different. They play everyone. Win or lose they get a free ticket to the finals. The other team has to be chosen, preferably a minnow so no potential dissaster in the making. IPL umpires must be presiding the match.

WORLD CHAMPIONS!!
__________________
The Weak can never forgive. Forgiveness is an attribute of the Strong." - Ghandi.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old July 2, 2009, 10:52 AM
Raynman's Avatar
Raynman Raynman is offline
Cricket Legend
 
Join Date: February 27, 2008
Location: Georgia, USA
Favorite Player: Richard Hadlee, Shakib
Posts: 2,180

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tigers_eye
semis? One and done? We will only watch the big blue once in a tournament? Sponsors won't be happy!!

I would rather make it little different. They play everyone. Win or lose they get a free ticket to the finals. The other team has to be chosen, preferably a minnow so no potential dissaster in the making. IPL umpires must be presiding the match.

WORLD CHAMPIONS!!
I was thinking about requiring each international team to have a minimum of 7 Indian players and a maximum of 4 with citizenship to that country.
__________________
Welcome to wherever you are, this is your life, you've made it this far...
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old July 2, 2009, 10:59 AM
bharat bharat is offline
ODI Cricketer
 
Join Date: September 25, 2005
Posts: 914

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raynman
India is a financial powerhouse in cricket no doubt. But the goal for ICC should be to promote cricket and increase the fanbase/viewership and hence the money. Test cricket doesn't draw the real money spenders (working class as opposed to kids and students) because they don't have the time to watch the whole thing and therefore, advertisers are too to keen to sponsor.
.
Its the chicken and egg problem. ICC needs money to promote cricket without which cricket is going nowhere.

And to its credit , Cricket has expanded more than ever before .Zim is an exception but this is more to do with its internal affairs than anything else.Cricket needs money , for eg: Irish team's main motto is to get into top league so that its cricketers can become professionals .You cant have amateur's (chicken farmers or policeman) play cricket and expect the quality to improove.

Again we are talking about two things here ."saving test cricket/making it lucrative" is different from expanding crickets fan base.

Test cricket is not that tool to expand cricket's fan base.T20 is the only portential tool to expand cricket beyound the current members and associates.Its a tight rope to tread .


Quote:
Originally Posted by Raynman
We could take the easy way out and let India remain a fixture in the Tier 1 and give them an automatic qualification to the T20 and ODI WC semis.
India does not need freebies man !! I was just pointing out the commercial aspect of it .Again "whats good for cricket" is a subjective matter .As always 'demand shapes supply' .I dont think ICC is courageous (even if it is the right thing --again subjective) enough to tinker with present set up.

Also personally I am ok with the current setup of FTP and bilateral tours.There may be an odd tarunt (read India) not touring or hosting a country but at the end of the day when the 'weaker' country becomes 'stronger' (criketing terms) the demand will push to have that lucrative tour.

It might be good for BD as well , think about it .If BD remains in Third tier , it will have to compete with (almost) the same teams over and over again !! Also the "label" of being called "Third Tier" will kill whatever chance BD has plating against the "First Tier" countries by way of a Bi-lateral tour outside the FTP
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old July 2, 2009, 11:28 AM
Raynman's Avatar
Raynman Raynman is offline
Cricket Legend
 
Join Date: February 27, 2008
Location: Georgia, USA
Favorite Player: Richard Hadlee, Shakib
Posts: 2,180

Bharat, please don't take my comments or jokes as anti Indian.

In all seriousness lets detach ourselves emotionally and try to view this objectively. Call it foolish or dreaming of a utopia or whatever, but this is what we need to work towards

1. ICC SHOULD be the controlling body, not the individual boards
2. There should be stiff penalties for breaking FTPs
3. Cricket needs to be expanded and increase its appeal globally
4. As a professional sport, it needs to generate money
5. Quality needs to be increased

In what I suggested, I believe allowing 14 additional countries regular ODI and T20 will help. The FTP is ONLY 2 years so the traditional 8 in DIV 2 have frequent chances to get back on top. Assuming BD and ZIM remain at the bottom and non-money makers every cycle 1 (maybe 2) of the 3 teams in DIV 2 will be in DIV 1 next year.

Again, it can be planned to have everyone get a match agains everyone (in this case 3 test in a series vs. the current 2 in some cases) within a 6 year period. On top of that you have the added value of playing for something, no dead rubber etc.

Other option, preserve Test for 'Purist' values, keep FTP same of similar to what it is today. Prognosis : Watch ZIM, BD, NZ & WIN slowly fade away. Add in more success and money for IPL, P20 etc. and watch PAK, SL & IND follow suit. Looking forward to telling my grandson in 2030 that Cricket was once 5 days long and Bangladesh used to play as well years ago
__________________
Welcome to wherever you are, this is your life, you've made it this far...
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:55 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
BanglaCricket.com
 

About Us | Contact Us | Privacy Policy | Partner Sites | Useful Links | Banners |

© BanglaCricket