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  #1501  
Old July 9, 2009, 11:50 PM
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Sovik Sovik is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bujhee kom
Nooo...Hoow come? My interest is constatntly growing!

No gayle no chanderpaul no sarwan and plenty of rain
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  #1502  
Old July 10, 2009, 12:38 AM
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Fazal Fazal is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RazabQ
Fazal, there are two ways you can handle an off-form player:

Option 1) Let him play himself back to form - e.g. Maravan Attapattu and Mark Waugh when they started out had really low scores but were persisted with.

Option 2) Let the player go away, work out the kinks in his game and then come back stronger. Ala Simon Katich or Viru Shewag or Danguly of late or Damien Martyn back in the days.

Both option obviously have pluses and minuses. In option 1, the player has no place to hide and is being constantly examined. However he has access to the top coaches and doesn't suffer the loss of confidence that comes with a drop.

In option 2, the player gets to work without pressure, take his time and take stock. This however assumes that said player has access to a top batting coach (like Kato had with a Bob Simpson or Ash has with Gani bhai).
I agree with your two option theory. However if your ask me, I would say option 1 will work with more "already accomplished experienced player" who is having some lean time. In my opinion option II should be used for still young unproven players who still haven't created a clear track record. I think trying these types of players with option 1 can further damage their career permanently. At some point fans and selectors will start tagging them a proven failure prematurely. Thats the risk we will take with these young players with option 1.

But then again its just one man's opinion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RazabQ
In my opinion, Big Z should be persisted with. He gives us something at the top of the order that we otherwise sorely lack - the "power game". Mehrab, Mushy, Ash et al are puny. They cannot demolish a medium pacer or spinner by plunking a big front foot stride and just playing straight and through the line. This is what Z can - T20 or Test regardless and for our side, it's pretty unique - only Mash down the order can do something similar.
Looks like we have fundamental disagreement about the need of "power game" in TEST. I don't see that we really need to address "power game" issues in our TEST team ignoring other aspect first. Therefore from my point of view I don't see any value added by Junaid from that point of view over other players available in #3 slot.

Now if Juniad start adjusting to #3 slowly and start playing like a prototypical #3 and start scoring runs in a consistant basis and prove me wrong, the more power to junaid ... it will be a "plan well done" by the selectors and a great news for the team.

But until then, I will continue to question his selection at #3 as I am not convinced yet that he is a long term solution for our #3 slot. To me its a short term stop gap three opener solution to address our fragile openers. if Tamim-Imrul piar clicks, then there will be no need for three operner solution, we could easily go for a conventional #3 type players.
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Last edited by Fazal; July 10, 2009 at 12:44 AM..
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  #1503  
Old July 10, 2009, 12:58 AM
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Murad Murad is offline
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Fazal bhai, this is not the first time Junaed batting at no.3. He has been batting at no.3 since the SA tour. And he seems to be doing a much better job there.

Here is a little stats to suggests that he is doing much better at no.3. This is from the last 2 series, where he batted in that position.
Career averages
MatInnsNORunsHSAveBFSR1005004s6s
unfiltered111904097421.5297342.03032551Profile
filtered5802166727.0050542.77010301
Career summary
v South Africa2401186729.5025346.64010170
v Sri Lanka240983724.5025238.88000131
v West Indies1------------


Look at the difference in his average at no.3 and no.2. He is slowly settling down at no.3.

Innings by innings list
827201040.003caught2v South AfricaBloemfontein19 Nov 2008Test # 1893
27100683039.703caught3v South AfricaBloemfontein19 Nov 2008Test # 1893
6719514411046.523caught1v South AfricaCenturion26 Nov 2008Test # 1895
1638212076.193caught3v South AfricaCenturion26 Nov 2008Test # 1895
2976685042.643bowled2v Sri LankaDhaka (SBNS)26 Dec 2008Test # 1903
3793745150.003caught4v Sri LankaDhaka (SBNS)26 Dec 2008Test # 1903
28119893031.463bowled2v Sri LankaChittagong (CDS)3 Jan 2009Test # 1905
435210019.043lbw4v Sri LankaChittagong (CDS)3 Jan 2009Test # 1905

Last edited by Murad; July 10, 2009 at 01:07 AM..
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  #1504  
Old July 10, 2009, 01:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fazal
I also think so. if this Tamim-Imrul pair play decently in this series, the selector will not rock the boat i.e. change the opening pair for nothing. Finding Opening pair is real problem for us for a while, if a pair clicks, I doubt they will break it in the next series. By next series, I am not taling about ODI series.
I concur with you... but I really wish Tamim, Imrul, Sakib, etc. all take this opportunity to play a "Test innings" individually too. i.e One man with a block of willow against hostile bowlers and 10 wolves ready to crucify him for his mistakes.

Lets see how much fortitude and temperament these blokes have to hang around for 90 overs without losing their wicket. They have every opportunity now to go big as an individual - pace your innings, leave out the bad balls, wait through maidens after maidens, punish the bad ball with style and score that brilliant double century. Thats what got Ponting his 11,000 yesterday, and he didnt stop there.

Eishob na korte parle, if they go hot tempered and short sighted, I'm sorry to admit - we dont deserve to be a test team after a decade of playing!
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  #1505  
Old July 10, 2009, 01:07 AM
Zaheed Mahmood Zaheed Mahmood is offline
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Now that WI are fielding a 2nd string team, the game has become much more important for us, we just can't afford to loose this! A win will earn us the compliment that WI need their first 11 to beat Bangladesh, that will prove that we are really a rank 9, not 11 or 12! A draw will still save us but a loss will really KILL us in the test arena! A slow pitch and a 2nd string team already indicate of a draw and even a win for BD, however, the chance is high that the Rainman will have the last say to drive the match to a draw!
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  #1506  
Old July 10, 2009, 01:25 AM
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Fazal Fazal is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by muradnyc
Fazal bhai, this is not the first time Junaed batting at no.3. He has been batting at no.3 since the SA tour. And he seems to be doing a much better job there.

Here is a little stats to suggests that he is doing much better at no.3. This is from the last 2 series, where he batted in that position.
You are right he did better in #3 as a opener. In those games openers didn't clicked. and this back up plan of three openers gave us some additional safety. But as I have already said so many times already, I am not convinced he is our long term #3 solution when our opening problem will be solved. #3 is the backbone and whoever plays, his average need to be much higher than upper 20s. Plus last test we played was in January,six moths ago. After that Junaid's performance in local league gave me an impression that he is off form.

Now I guess we need to wait and see if I am right that he is off form or you guys are right. Only thing Junaid need to do to prove me wrong is to score some healthy run against this weak WI team. Then we all will be happy. To me, whoever plays at #3 and #4, need to do some heavy lifting. Thats why I am raising Junaid long term role at #3.
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  #1507  
Old July 10, 2009, 01:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fazal
So you think he really didn't lose his job at opening slot and it was a promotion?

In that case I have nothing to say my friend.


About Imrul, at least today he got high priase from the fans who watched him today. You can validate by yourslef if you read through this thread. People saw a significant improvement, even though the same size was small.
Batting at 3 instead of opening is not a demotion it is because he plays well at 3 than Imrul. There are many instances like this, Vaughn and Tresh were doing great as a opener but when Strauss came Vaughn started batting at 3 ... this is not demotion but he is a better bat than Strauss at 3.
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  #1508  
Old July 10, 2009, 01:46 AM
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Fazal Fazal is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sports_fan_bd
Batting at 3 instead of opening is not a demotion it is because he plays well at 3 than Imrul.
As far I know, Imrul has yet to play at #3 slot. with his limited opportunity Imrul played as opener in TEST matches. If that is true, then how Junaid compete with Imrul at #3 and played better than Imrul at #3?

As far as I know its other way around. Imrul competed with Junaid at opening slot and selectors decided to go with Imrul (instead of Junaid) currently.

In opening slot, you don't change the pair unless you think its broken and not working as expected.

Now people may ask then why they gave Junaid #3 slot, which is very important slot. Only thing I can say is there may be two reasons:

1) To implement 3 opener theory as an additional safe guard to address our fragile openers. In that case we are sacrificing the conventional #3 slot to implement this three opener theory.

2) Our brilliant selector's concept that if a player fails, give him new and additional responsibility. That will make him play better. Sound familiar?
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  #1509  
Old July 10, 2009, 02:12 AM
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RazabQ RazabQ is offline
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Fazal you forgot option 3
1) New player comes in who's very promising but can only be an opener and one of the openers is versatile enough to play at different slots.

I think you are taking this opening pair cannot be broken too literally. Tendu was one of the most successful ODI openers but when Viru came up, he actually moved down the order to let Viru come in. No one would have called that a demotion. That he moved back up was more a function of Danguly not cutting it ...
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  #1510  
Old July 10, 2009, 02:26 AM
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bujhee kom bujhee kom is offline
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Is the rain over and the sky dry bhais and apas?
Anybody knows?
Apnara still excited?
Ami khoob excited!
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  #1511  
Old July 10, 2009, 02:29 AM
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Fazal Fazal is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RazabQ
Fazal you forgot option 3
1) New player comes in who's very promising but can only be an opener and one of the openers is versatile enough to play at different slots.

I think you are taking this opening pair cannot be broken too literally. Tendu was one of the most successful ODI openers but when Viru came up, he actually moved down the order to let Viru come in. No one would have called that a demotion. That he moved back up was more a function of Danguly not cutting it ...
Yes this 3rd option is much more better. I hope you are right (even though I suspect that is the casse)

When tendulker moved from opener to #3 he was already a proven super star. If you want to make a case for junaid prematurely comparing with Tendulker that's fine, but if I am a well wisher of Juniad, I wouldn't do that before he prove his worth first. tendulker's move was by player's own choice, where as Junaid' move was imposed on the selectors.

You know the last player we compared with tendu what happened to him. Now when we try to comapre him wih Afridi, Afridi fans take offense to that. I hope the same fate doesn't repeat for Juniad.

I say, let him grow and deliver first before we start comapring him with international superstars first.
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Last edited by Fazal; July 10, 2009 at 02:45 AM..
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  #1512  
Old July 10, 2009, 02:31 AM
PoorFan PoorFan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bujhee kom
Is the rain over and the sky dry bhais and apas?
Anybody knows?
Apnara still excited?
Ami khoob excited!
All I know everybody over there are in bed, busy having dream.
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  #1513  
Old July 10, 2009, 02:53 AM
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Sigh man, citing precedence does not mean there's a literal comparison. Big Z Tenduর জুতা পালিশ করার যোগ‍্যতা অজ্রন করে নাই. Vaugh + Tresh = good opening pair. But Strauss had to be brought in (as sports fan bd points out). Same with Tendu - Danguly.
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  #1514  
Old July 10, 2009, 03:30 AM
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First a disclaimer: it's still early days and I am by no means suggestion BD will win this match.

However, (as many people have already said) it is of course right that if BD do win the critics will say it's just another example of BD beating a weak side (like Zim).

But let's try and be optimistic here. Momentum is a great thing in cricket, what if we win the first test (even in a tight contest), the striking West Indians then return for the 2nd test but are so distracted and demotivated, while BD's confidence is high and the win the 2nd test too?

To sleep, perchance to dream...
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  #1515  
Old July 10, 2009, 03:37 AM
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Sohel Sohel is offline
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COOL! They're showing all of yesterday's action on Ten Sports ATM ...
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  #1516  
Old July 10, 2009, 04:27 AM
PoorFan PoorFan is offline
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There is games to be played
There is fire on our back
There is very few talented Mr.20s.
There is few slots to be filled
---------------------------------------------------------------
Sums up - there is try and look - will continue
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  #1517  
Old July 10, 2009, 04:35 AM
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yeah, reduced to watching last night's action.
not much though...
wish we have had a full day of play.....
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  #1518  
Old July 10, 2009, 04:37 AM
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Nafis 1718 Nafis 1718 is offline
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the weather is awful..even bd had chance to win this match the weather will not allow us..so sad http://news.bbc.co.uk/weather/forecast/296/
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  #1519  
Old July 10, 2009, 04:47 AM
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Roni_uk Roni_uk is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nafis 1718
the weather is awful..even bd had chance to win this match the weather will not allow us..so sad http://news.bbc.co.uk/weather/forecast/296/
I was gonna say bbc weather is always wrong but its the same everywhere
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  #1520  
Old July 10, 2009, 04:49 AM
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BANFAN BANFAN is offline
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Tamim is still lucky to be out there. His blind flashes out side the off stump is quiet irritating. Doesn't even bother to watch the ball. These bowlers aren't express either.
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  #1521  
Old July 10, 2009, 04:51 AM
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ekta kufa series.
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  #1522  
Old July 10, 2009, 05:00 AM
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only 3.5 hours left....
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  #1523  
Old July 10, 2009, 05:21 AM
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Naimul_Hd Naimul_Hd is offline
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guys, West Indians are still hopeful to pull out this match ! here are some comments on some of the forums.


http://caribbeancricket.com/topic/927370/1
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  #1524  
Old July 10, 2009, 05:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by asddsa
guys, West Indians are still hopeful to pull out this match ! here are some comments on some of the forums.


http://caribbeancricket.com/topic/927370/1
Our performance in the longer version speaks for their optimism. They also have some players from that "A" team which took the 1st innings lead in practice match. So, they are having their hope high as its only very early stage of the Test.

But I am confident that, if rain permits, this test match is ours.
Then we can deal with them.....
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  #1525  
Old July 10, 2009, 08:01 AM
MohammedC MohammedC is offline
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Is the game starting in 30 minutes? is it raining

Quote:
from CI
Hello and welcome to the live coverage of the second day's play.
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