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  #1  
Old July 16, 2009, 12:53 AM
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Default Degenerative Arguments

This topic prolly does not belong to this section, but this is an important issue that need to be talked about for sake of this forum:

Part of the reasons I lost motivations to post here (besides real life issues and that Bangladesh team has not shown any improvement lately) was how fast debates here degenerate. Coming back to the forum after a few months break, I see things only gotten worse. I see plenty of people (including some veterans of the board!)here starting to throw personal insults when they run out logic to present their side of debates. I understand it's hard to maintain standard of a forum where so many different kind of people are participating, but I urge the mods to take tough actions when people resort to personal insults. Delete those posts, warn posters, lock degenerative threads - do whatever is necessary!
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  #2  
Old July 16, 2009, 01:41 AM
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To maintain the standard of the forum it is important. This topic can easily stay here. As most of the arguments are going in this section. But this thread might start another argument.

Who? Why? Where?
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  #3  
Old July 16, 2009, 01:47 AM
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BC already has excessive policing by moderators for a public forum to the point it becomes a bit oppressive.

Its a threatening environment as it is, to advocate for more censorship and locking/banning is too excessive.

I feel that the mods here make their authority and their whips pretty known. This is why the backlash was inevitable.

People stop responding to anonymous moderator threats who think themselves a perch above the rest. Thats the main problem, or disconnect, BC needs to address.

The question is not, should there be more policing and stamping authority on a public fan forum.

But rather:
We are adult grown men, or say young adolescents. Insults and war of words is a regular occurrence in real life. They them duke it out. Let them understand how people think and how people are. Exposure is necessary and speech, however VULGAR, needs to be tolerated not only because of free speech, but because patrolling an internet forum to maintain someone's "ideal" speech toleration is absurd in the internet age.

BC has no moral obligations to uphold ANY standard. This is a fan forum. Established by fans for fans. No more policing, no more moderator threats, no more ridiculous banning policies and forum rules that hurt more than help the discussion.

This is not a religious cult with numerous rules and regulations. Its a fan group! Let the words free flow. The strength of BC is that there are a lot of different kinds of people here. Thats the beauty of it. I would not like it if every one like minded homogeneous personalities occupied this space. Whats the fun in that??
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  #4  
Old July 16, 2009, 01:51 AM
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A while back, I left the forum for a long while as well. Well I used to check it as a guest and refrain from posting for the very same reason.

Lol, when I first joined BC I felt like an outsider because people here seemed to have their own friends circle. And they seemed to ignore others. At the same time, they would "gang up on them" when they made a questionable argument.

Some how I left what was in the past, in the past and decided that I would post a lot lesser than before. Somehow that helped me . Now I feel more acclimatized.

Last edited by Foozy; July 16, 2009 at 01:58 AM..
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  #5  
Old July 16, 2009, 01:55 AM
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Hey eshen, you are a very sensible poster. I like your posts.

now that I got that out of the way, I don't think this issue needs to be discussed. I find the moderating here quiet intense (sometimes overly so). But in a large forum as this - there will be many many derogatory posts that will go unnoticed. The best thing to do is press the "report" button.

I am quiet certain that the matter will be taken care of with punishments handed that later you will realize a bit too tough.

I think mods/admins would rather ban than edit out offensive materials; so I respectfully disagree on tougher actions...

Again to summarize:
-Please use the report button (becuase that only shows how classy you are - that you will stop arguing once a certain line has been crossed)

or you can be like me and start cursing back and make the forum even worse...

Finally just relax and don't argue with idiots...(except me, argue with me)
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  #6  
Old July 16, 2009, 01:59 AM
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Bruno, while your post sound philosophically beautiful; I think some sort of standard needs to be maintained (NOT allowing vulgarity).

But yeah I would definitely agree - moderation is waayyy too excessive as it is....
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  #7  
Old July 16, 2009, 02:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruno
BC already has excessive policing by moderators for a public forum to the point it becomes a bit oppressive.

Its a threatening environment as it is, to advocate for more censorship and locking/banning is too excessive.

I feel that the mods here make their authority and their whips pretty known. This is why the backlash was inevitable.

People stop responding to anonymous moderator threats who think themselves a perch above the rest. Thats the main problem, or disconnect, BC needs to address.

The question is not, should there be more policing and stamping authority on a public fan forum.

But rather:
We are adult grown men, or say young adolescents. Insults and war of words is a regular occurrence in real life. They them duke it out. Let them understand how people think and how people are. Exposure is necessary and speech, however VULGAR, needs to be tolerated not only because of free speech, but because patrolling an internet forum to maintain someone's "ideal" speech toleration is absurd in the internet age.

BC has no moral obligations to uphold ANY standard. This is a fan forum. Established by fans for fans. No more policing, no more moderator threats, no more ridiculous banning policies and forum rules that hurt more than help the discussion.

This is not a religious cult with numerous rules and regulations. Its a fan group! Let the words free flow. The strength of BC is that there are a lot of different kinds of people here. Thats the beauty of it. I would not like it if every one like minded homogeneous personalities occupied this space. Whats the fun in that??
From what I understood, Eshen is not talking about vulgarity in the choice of words, rather personal insults.
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  #8  
Old July 16, 2009, 02:01 AM
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Orphy are you behind Bruno?..........on this issue
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  #9  
Old July 16, 2009, 02:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gopal Bhar
Orphy are you behind Bruno?..........on this issue
No.

Like i said his idea sounds cute on paper but has little practicality.... having said that - I think moderation is excessive as it is, so I disagree with Eshen on tougher measures.

Last edited by Orpheus; July 16, 2009 at 03:48 AM..
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  #10  
Old July 16, 2009, 02:10 AM
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Forgive me if I am incorrect, but it seems for the comments, that some here are from conservative backgrounds. I can understand where you are coming from. But instead of looking at the other person is an idiot or an unreasonable person, try to understand the cultural differences between you folks.

There are a lot of European, Canadian and American members. They are more liberal in speech and thought and express it that way. If someone takes offense to that, things can get confrontational. But you have to accept a bit of that, because you are talking to folks from different perspectives and different outlook on life. Non that is inferior to you.

And about the cursing, I dont quite agree with simply reporting ppl at every turn. Its childish. You cant complain to mom and dad in real life every time. It shows you are willing to have someone else do things you are incompetent to handle. Have a good word or two with the other person. Be a man, not a snitch.
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  #11  
Old July 16, 2009, 02:15 AM
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To be clear - I am all for good arguments. I applaud this board for having many good debaters. I am asking the mods only to step in when people show lack of maturity to use insults instead of logic (teases and pokes are fine with me as long you know where the limit is -again, that's hard to define). In real life, you have to be afraid of repercussion when you throw insults at someone, here you don't, and that's why we need mods to be tougher here.
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  #12  
Old July 16, 2009, 02:17 AM
BD-Shardul BD-Shardul is offline
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My opinion about moderation: BC mods are the best people in this BC forum and I admire their personality, intelligence and sense of humor. I am all for excessive moderation but sometimes I feel that preachers are always kept on the edge of knife while non-preachers can go away with derogatory comments they make about others, directly or indirectly. Time to make BCAP (BC Association of Preachers for all current and previous preachers) to protest this injusice like WIPA

Last edited by BD-Shardul; July 16, 2009 at 02:24 AM..
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  #13  
Old July 16, 2009, 02:20 AM
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Dear Bruno, please visit youtube comment section; then you can argue about freedom of adulthood. Banglacricket has decided to maintain certain "conservative standard" - and it will follow that. It might be not to your liking or to the likings of "foreigners" but that is too bad. There are many places on the net where you can be liberal or be liberated . Banglacricket is flaurishing because it must be doing smething right.

I like to think politeness is a standard on its own. It doesn't hurt to be polite. In real life, if you are a d***, you do that with the knowledge that the person you are di***** may knock your head out. Unfortunately, that fear is not present online. So the least a forum can do is hand out bans (or some sort of punishments).

Part of being a man is polishing up one's character. So BE A MAN and do the right thing.. Be nice!
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  #14  
Old July 16, 2009, 02:21 AM
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welcome back Eshen. BC is more enjoyable when you post. So,besides those real life things if you can then stay here and post more logical and informational stuff. And I think BC always gets under very active moderation. Only place I can see some relative offensive post at any match thread. Thats pretty understandable because it is more like a gallery where people curse to vent their frustration sometimes.
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  #15  
Old July 16, 2009, 02:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Foozy
Lol, when I first joined BC I felt like an outsider because people here seemed to have their own friends circle. And they seemed to ignore others. At the same time, they would "gang up on them" when they made a questionable argument.
I think every new member go through this process. I felt the same in BC for about a year and half. Like real life, getting acclimatized with the environment of a forum where quality counts are no easy task, unless you can post like a sage or a jester (GB).
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  #16  
Old July 16, 2009, 02:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eshen
In real life, you have to be afraid of repercussion when you throw insults at someone, here you don't, and that's why we need mods to be tougher here.
Took my words out

Please eshen bhai simply use the report button. Moderators don't read everything. I mean do you??


And please your presence makes this forum quality to go up....if you don't wanna verbally abuse someone, pm me - I will take care of that for you :p I will do this only for you because I want to read your posts more often
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  #17  
Old July 16, 2009, 02:25 AM
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One thing I want to say if the Mods delete any posts they should inform the person why the post was deleted. I've experienced this and his is so harsh. Like Foozy said I myself also twice stop posting for the time being.
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  #18  
Old July 16, 2009, 02:25 AM
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Keep up guys, keep them coming more and more, its all nice to read.
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  #19  
Old July 16, 2009, 02:28 AM
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See the "drawing the line" is a very interesting idea....

"I could take this topic deep [edit]. If tougher measures needs to be made, we need tough mods who can penetrate hundreds of posts to find the perpetrators. They need to be anal about this [edit] its doable..."

ehh, hopefully no lines crossed.

Last edited by RazabQ; July 16, 2009 at 03:47 AM.. Reason: Lines were crossed :)
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  #20  
Old July 16, 2009, 02:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Orpheus
. In real life, if you are a d***, you do that with the knowledge that the person you are di***** may knock your head out.
This is a perfect example of a personal insult. I can sense the animosity in your last comment. You have decided to take it out on me already.

You dont seem to follow your own advice very well. I dont think that was very gentlemanly of you.
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  #21  
Old July 16, 2009, 02:41 AM
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The answer you looking for is in those underline part I guess. There are something, sometime its better learning in the process, not reading or acting by the book. And I feel this should be one of those case, and in addition that 'Red-Button' is there if you need in such case.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eshen
To be clear - I am all for good arguments. I applaud this board for having many good debaters. I am asking the mods only to step in when people show lack of maturity to use insults instead of logic (teases and pokes are fine with me as long you know where the limit is -again, that's hard to define). In real life, you have to be afraid of repercussion when you throw insults at someone, here you don't, and that's why we need mods to be tougher here.
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  #22  
Old July 16, 2009, 02:43 AM
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Personally though guys, I actually feel the moderation here is pretty decent. They do take care of most things. The only thing is as Eshen said, the "Poking" needs to be kept at its limits. Which also I guess most people learn with time in the forum. And it is also a matter of humbleness within ourselves (the posters).

As for the people from different countries, and the youtube debacle... Well the 'poking beyond limits' thing is different from using vulgar words. I personally don't mind vulgar words as long as the limits are not pushed (again varies from each individual's prospective), but 'poking' is more like what (and with all due respect) Indians and Pakis do against each other and how they talk about Muslims and Hindus in youtube comments section. And yes those are offensive, uncivilized, and immature. Because most of the time they have no content, only pointless swearing or criticizing.

Either ways, I doubt that the mods can do much about this. 'Coz there are no fine lines. Only some gray areas and some dark ones. So in the end, I guess all we can do if we are offended by anything is report it, and the mods might have to take a judgment call on it lol. It would be like waiting for that out or not out signal from the third umpire haha

Last edited by Foozy; July 16, 2009 at 02:50 AM..
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  #23  
Old July 16, 2009, 02:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nocturnal
Only place I can see some relative offensive post at any match thread. Thats pretty understandable because it is more like a gallery where people curse to vent their frustration sometimes.
I agree with you, no complain there (well, unless someone is being a repeated offender there).

I am tempted to start a poll whether members here think BC is being over-moderated or under-moderated. I will prolly do so after seeing some more discussion on the topic (or a mod can add a poll to this topic if he likes).
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  #24  
Old July 16, 2009, 02:47 AM
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Welcome back Eshen

After reading all the posts by you, Bruno, Orpheus, BD-Shardul, Dr. Noc, Foozy, Auntu and others, it seems no other forum is equivalent to BC standards. You could be hanged by now in Packpassion or Indiacricketfans forum. Please ignore all the posts you don't like or use your keyboard to hunt them down.

And, open some new threads, will you?!!
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  #25  
Old July 16, 2009, 02:47 AM
Banglatiger84 Banglatiger84 is offline
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BC is probably the best moderated online forum I frequent. There are forums where half of all posts are text-speak, and the other half looks like some comments on youtube.

There are far more "oppresive" moderating teams out there, and I personally am perfectly fine with the way BC is........
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