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  #1  
Old July 16, 2009, 05:31 AM
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Default Less Spinners for Bouncier Wickets?!

I am bringing up the issue here as many people commented that Robin should be in the next Test match, instead of Enamul, because the pitch in next match suppose to offer good amount of bounce.

I understand it's trickier to play slow bowlers on low-bouncy subcontinental wickets as pace of their deliveries here varies a good bit after pitching (ie deliveries slow down further); that dry and cracked pitches here are more conductive to spin; also that cracked surfaces helps balls to degenerate faster, something that helps with spinning. But, I believe you can generate spin on any grassless wicket with an old enough ball (otherwise spinners would not exist outside subcontinent). Nowadays it's rare to see wickets with grass not mowed down to minimum in international matches, although those wickets may still produce good bounce because of well nurtured grassroots. So, my question is - is it right to assume pacers will do better on a wicket than spinners will solely because the wicket offers good bounce?
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  #2  
Old July 16, 2009, 06:18 AM
IanW IanW is offline
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Eshen,

Traditionally, legspinners need bounce and offspinners dont - thus, many more legspinners in Australia than elsewhere.

It's more the case that you'll get more relative benefit from bounce as a pace bowler (as opposed to a swing or seam bowler) than an off-spinner will. If you've got a good leggie, you'll probably play 3 quicks and them.

Ian Whitchurch
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  #3  
Old July 16, 2009, 06:29 AM
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Ian, what I heard from a friend in England that you (as an offispinner) should loop the ball up higher on bouncier wicket to get better turn (I forgot what was his explanation for), something that I also remember hearing from Rafique.
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  #4  
Old July 16, 2009, 06:38 AM
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It's not just the bounce that is at issue here, it's also the amount of green grass on the wicket...
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  #5  
Old July 16, 2009, 07:05 AM
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Seamers should be preferred on greentops without question. But, it's rare to see greentops nowadays.
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  #6  
Old July 16, 2009, 08:20 AM
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I always feel like we should build the team to our strength and opposition's weakness rather than pitch.
Several guru's have misread the pitch on the morning of the game and paid for it. so, it's a gamble to pay too much attention to pitch than strength/weakness.

therefore, my position is that we need more spinners than pacers. shahadat and rubel are fine, get the rest spinners.
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  #7  
Old July 16, 2009, 08:56 AM
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To begin with, I'm not sure why Rubel's inclusion is in question. In absence of Mash, Rubel is our only choice as a second pacer.

And if Mash is out, Enamul Jr. is in automatically.
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  #8  
Old July 16, 2009, 09:05 AM
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Cricinfo says that the pitch will assist the spinners.
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  #9  
Old July 16, 2009, 09:40 AM
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Hmm, bounce can be good for SLAs.I remember Shakib utilized the bounce of Chittagong pitch with the new ball quite well.

Even if the pitches are Sabina PArk fast, I don't think we got pacers capable of utilizing that. So MJ is my choice.
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  #10  
Old July 16, 2009, 09:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
Cricinfo says that the pitch will assist the spinners.
Source please(link?)
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  #11  
Old July 16, 2009, 09:48 AM
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Spinners, like all other types of bowlers live bouncy wickets. Bounce means you can bowl a fuller length without being driven, you can get more catches and edges. Witness Panesar's success in mostly bouncier pitches. Eshen is right - one needs to bowl with more loop and probably bowl more over-spin. We should play the same healthy 10 from T1 and swap Robin for Mash.
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  #12  
Old July 16, 2009, 10:12 AM
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Quote:
"It [the pitch] was a touch wet when we saw it on Wednesday. A bit of moisture maybe on top. It will be interesting to see how it eventually looks," said Shakib. "We don't have a problem with the wicket. If it is slow, which I have heard it traditionally is, then that's okay and if it is quicker than Arnos Vale then I believe our bowling, especially spin, will be more effective."
http://www.cricinfo.com/wivbdesh2009...ry/414664.html
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  #13  
Old July 16, 2009, 10:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eshen
Ian, what I heard from a friend in England that you (as an offispinner) should loop the ball up higher on bouncier wicket to get better turn (I forgot what was his explanation for), something that I also remember hearing from Rafique.
Actually, I think that applies to non-bouncy pitches as well. Not only does greater loop act as a greater tease, it also produces greater turn compared to when you're firing the ball in.
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  #14  
Old July 16, 2009, 11:01 AM
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Please replace Shahadat with anyone, for the sake of my sanity. Those Sharapova-esque screams followed by 75mph lollipops were driving me crazy by the end of the 1st test lol.
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  #15  
Old July 16, 2009, 11:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WIFAN
Please replace Shahadat with anyone, for the sake of my sanity. Those Sharapova-esque screams followed by 75mph lollipops were driving me crazy by the end of the 1st test lol.
Don't worry, you're not alone.
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  #16  
Old July 16, 2009, 11:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WIFAN
Please replace Shahadat with anyone, for the sake of my sanity. Those Sharapova-esque screams followed by 75mph lollipops were driving me crazy by the end of the 1st test lol.
Ha ha. Good one by WIFAN.
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  #17  
Old July 16, 2009, 11:11 AM
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lol @ the Sharapova-esque screm. Well put WIFAN!
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  #18  
Old July 16, 2009, 11:12 AM
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I have a lot of respect for you guys, having to put up with him for 22 tests and 43 ODI's non-stop. Man... what an assault on your ears.
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  #19  
Old July 16, 2009, 11:17 AM
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ROFL...he's not that bad you know. In fact, we always considered him our best pace option for Tests.

But he has a lot of improvement to make.
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  #20  
Old July 16, 2009, 11:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kabir
ROFL...he's not that bad you know. In fact, we always considered him our best pace option for Tests.

But he has a lot of improvement to make.
Transformation of Shahadat: Monica Seles to Sharapova. Should have been the opposite but ....
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  #21  
Old July 16, 2009, 11:25 AM
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I have seen third pacer fail numerous times to know that quality matters, not quantity. Just because you are playing in WI doesn't mean you have to play three pacers if they are not that good to begin with. I would rather have Enamul over Robin any day of the week. Our pacers are never threatening except Mashrafee and a few spell once in a blue moon by Shahadat and we should act the way India used to use their pacers in 70s. Use them for few overs and once the shine is gone, Shakib and co comes in.
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  #22  
Old July 16, 2009, 11:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kabir
ROFL...he's not that bad you know. In fact, we always considered him our best pace option for Tests.

But he has a lot of improvement to make.

Lol he is a decent young bowler, but I won't be giving him any more credit than that until he behaves like a fast bowler rather than a female tennis player...........
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  #23  
Old July 16, 2009, 11:33 AM
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Hey Sadi...haven't seen you around here lately man. Busy with life?
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  #24  
Old July 16, 2009, 11:35 AM
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even if it's a bouncy wicket ...play robin instead of shahadat, and enam/mehrab instead of mash

WI team is weak in spin so it's better to play 2 pacers and 3 spinners.......
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  #25  
Old July 16, 2009, 11:41 AM
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only solution:

bring mahbubul alam robin , who should replace mashrafe.. so we wont be lack of pacer (shahadat-mahbubul-rubel)

bring mehrab jr instead of rokibul hasan, who can replace rokib as a batsman and can do enam jrs job as a SLA spinner. (sakib-mahmudullah-mehrab jr-ashraful)

so we r balanced. its so simple.
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