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  #1  
Old July 28, 2009, 12:54 AM
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Question Soccer USA

Having played soccer in the US in my youth on various levels, even my HS in France was an American School, I feel emotionally attached to American players in general, and Team USA in particular. Preconceived notions about soccer and America outside the US still distort the reality of the game there, and how far it has come since the days NASL.

Not in touch anymore but try to follow as much as I can. A superb finals in the Confederations Cup, and Cricman's passion in this area have made me follow American soccer a bit more closely now. Hence this thread. Looking forward to Cricman and others posting here.

Now some news. 0-5 to Mexico in the Gold Cup final just weeks after we're supposed to move to the next level??? This should shatter some delusions about Bradley. Sack his bony butt! This is what he had to say:

Quote:
Post-Match Quote Sheet: U.S. Men's National Team vs Mexico
Post-Match Quotes
U.S. MNT vs. Mexico
2009 Gold Cup - Final
July 26, 2009

U.S. Men's National Team Head Coach Bob Bradley

On seeing a lot of younger players during this tournament:

“I think we’ve had a good chance to see so many different players. I think we’ve got a good, solid nucleus, but we’re always looking for players that we believe are going to move forward and help our team.”

On allowing goals in the second half:

“The second half for us is not what we’re all about. It’s important we can look hard at ourselves and learn from a half like that and use it the right way.”

On if the inexperience of the U.S. players factored into the result:

“The area where we didn’t do well enough was our response to the first goal. I think the first half we played pretty well, and now when the second half starts you obviously want to build on that. We had one very good chance at the start of the second half when Robbie Rogers hit one over. But now, when we get down, your ability to make sure that the game doesn’t become a free-for-all where the other team has all sorts of space and opportunities, where your numbers aren’t good enough in the back when the ball turns over, where you lose bad balls, so there’s a lot of different things there that obviously came into play. I think it’s most important that we can look at those things.”

On how this loss may impact the qualifying match in Mexico City on Aug. 12:

“There’s no doubt that you want competitors and we are competitors. When you have a game that feels like this at the end you don’t forget it. It’s something that we will always on the inside talk about, be honest about, and hopefully we can use it in a way that we’re better from it today.”

On the play of Carlos Vela and Giovani Dos Santos:

“Both are good players. When the game opens up in the second half, they’re the kind of players that can take advantage of the space and in that regard they did very well today.”

On finishing second in the Gold Cup:

“Today was their day. When you have to stand there, whether it’s in the Confederations Cup in South Africa and it’s Brazil, or whether it’s in Giants Stadium and it’s the Gold Cup and it’s Mexico, when you finish second you have to stand there – which is the right thing to do – see the other team get their medals, hold up the trophy, that’s a feeling that as athletes, as competitors it’s a feeling that you don’t like. You hope those are things that help you grow in the future on an individual basis and on a team basis. Like I said, today is their day, they can celebrate. It’s our job to make sure we’re ready for what we already knew was a challenge to play in Azetca. We’ll be ready. It’s 90 minutes and it starts over.”

On if this result is a set-back for the team:

“Everyone reads into it their own way. We know the work going on. We’re honest about every step of the way. People will read into it in different ways, but once again when we go to Azetca, we start over on that day and have a chance to do something the U.S. hasn’t done before.”

On what changed the game:

“The change was the goal. When a goal is scored, now all of a sudden things change in the game. We didn’t do well at that point in terms of our response, our ability to keep control while we pushed for the equalizer. We opened ourselves up. I said it earlier, these are talented players, you open yourself up, you start to give away balls in bad spots, you start to get caught where again you’re all over the field and not solid enough in the back when you lose bad balls, good players make you pay and that’s what happened in the second half.”

U.S. Men’s National Team captain and forward Brian Ching

On giving up five goals:

“When it comes down to it we just lost our composure. They're a good team and they punished us. We're a young team and guys played a lot of minutes, but we have no real excuses. They moved the ball around a lot, we were chasing the ball a lot in the second half and it tired us out. I think it was a combination of things but we're not going to sit here and make excuses. We're going to hold our hands up and I'll be the first one to say I didn't do enough.”

On what they’ll take from the game:

You look at anybody in the United States and this loss will anger you. We have to channel that, use it and bring it with us on August 12.

U.S. Men's National Team goalkeeper Troy Perkins

On the penalty:

“After [the penalty] they came with a lot more energy. We didn't do well with it and we should definitely know better. It definitely changed the game.”

On what happened after halftime:

“We were where we wanted to be and we had controlled the things we wanted to. We just exposed ourselves too much in the second half and they punished us for it.”

U.S. Men's National Team midfielder Stuart Holden

On the loss and how the team moves forward:

“I think we just put this behind us. Maybe this will give them a little bit of confidence but it will be a different group come August 12. Over the course of the tournament guys have shown well and stated a case to be considered going forward. Today was just not one of those days and we're very disappointed with our efforts. You never like getting beat 5-0.”

LINK
Where is Steve Sampson or Bruce Arena? Sure they had their issues too but this type to loss to arch nemesis Mexico wouldn't have been possible under them. Even when guys like Hugo Sanchez, Manuel Negrete, and Tomas Boy played for the Mexicans in the mid 80s, our rag taggers didn't lose to them this badly.

What the F is going on?

Why can't we get guys like Luxemburgo or Klinsmann to coach us?
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Last edited by Sohel; July 28, 2009 at 01:02 AM..
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  #2  
Old July 28, 2009, 12:59 AM
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soccer jinish ta ki?
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Old July 28, 2009, 10:03 PM
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Until and unless they learn to can keep possession of the ball more than a minute or so, I have no time for USA soccer. Just watched Chelsea and AC last Friday . Sitting at the stadium, you really appreciate how the great players never lose possession, how they pass around at will for minutes, and sometimes stringing together 10-15 passes with one touch. USA is no way near that. They have improved and they should. They have all the resources. They have thousands of kids playing in highschool, yet something is missing. It is too structured. US players easily lose possession when pressured. I have no interest in US soccer. The product is shitty.
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  #4  
Old July 30, 2009, 01:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beamer
Until and unless they learn to can keep possession of the ball more than a minute or so, I have no time for USA soccer. Just watched Chelsea and AC last Friday . Sitting at the stadium, you really appreciate how the great players never lose possession, how they pass around at will for minutes, and sometimes stringing together 10-15 passes with one touch. USA is no way near that. They have improved and they should. They have all the resources. They have thousands of kids playing in highschool, yet something is missing. It is too structured. US players easily lose possession when pressured. I have no interest in US soccer. The product is shitty.
Surprised to read such sweeping generalizations from you dear friend. "Shitty"? I think that's your preconceived notion talking. A little presumptuous, are we? ...

American soccer, like Bangladeshi cricket, does not offer the quality of elite nations of the sport yet, but it has come a long way in a very short period of time since 1994. Our victories and competitive performances against some of those sides embody the progress. Look at how we played in the Confederations Cup despite having an idiot like Bradley at the helm!

Fitness and team cohesion have never been issues for the American athlete in any sport where we're tagged the underdog, and nowadays we have more technically sound players. I suggest you attend an MLS match whenever you have the chance or closely watch one on TV. You'd be pleasantly surprised.

Moreover, the US Women's team is one of the best ever, and youth teams are considered top notch in their age group. I doubt that persistent "shittiness" and "prevalent inability" to possess the ball can get us there. Look at the record of Team USA since 1994 and reassess your assumptions. Also look at the fact that most of our players are homegrown now, with a majority born and raised in the US of A.

As far as the national team is concerned, the style varies according to the coach. Bruce Arena and to a slightly lesser extent, Steve Sampson emphasized fast counter attack and man to man defense. Ball possession along the ground whenever possible. Technically gifted players such as Claudio Reyna did that for us.

The current coach believes in zonal defense with quick counterattack, and more often than not, wasteful long balls to be chased down with limited success. You already know what I think of him. Luckily we have skilled guys like Carlos Bocanegra, Landon Donovan, Brian Ching, Clint Dempsey, DaMarcus Beasley and Jozy Altiodore among others who do what they see fit according to the situation. Guys like Freddy Adu will also make their mark soon.

That said, often American players, other than our keepers (some of the best in the world), don't get a fair shot in European leagues because preconceived bias, rather than what's right in front of them, clouds the judgment of fundamentally Anti-American European coaches.

I'm not suggesting that soccer would ever be as popular in the US as it is in Latin America, Europe, Africa and elsewhere, or as popular as hockey in Canada, Michigan, Minnesota, or Alaska, but we can still be in the top 16 by 2014 at the latest, and stay there. Cricket is not the most popular sport in South Africa or Australia for that matter, but look where they are. Again, look at how far we've come in just 15 years and you won't find that to be an unrealistic assumption.

Being disconnected from certain realities, or liking or disliking any side or style of soccer is always your prerogative, but be fair. BTW, that's exactly what I ask of folks who enjoy decontextualizing and dissing our cricket ...
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  #5  
Old July 30, 2009, 02:02 AM
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It's football, not soccer. Thank you sir. :salute:
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  #6  
Old July 30, 2009, 04:10 AM
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Beamer, US soccer offers a nice mix of the physical approach of European side and the athletic unfettered style of some of the South American and African sides. To accuse the US team of lacking is fair is a cheap one - players like Donovan, Adu, Deuce (Clint), Clint Mathis in his halcyon days, Altidore are all capable of the eye-catching play. Yes the one area they need to improve upon is possession soccer - they need to get better into trapping the ball with the next move in mind on a more consistent basis. But their results over the last 10 years, especially their ascendancy over Mehico (recent blip excepted) hardly belies that "shiiity product" comment. Don't be a euro-snob man
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  #7  
Old July 30, 2009, 10:27 AM
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Sohel

It wasn't a sweeping generalization but years of astute observation which made me comment the way I did. And, I stand by it. I don't make presumptions since that involves making judgement without the power of information. I have tried to watch MLS or US soccer, and for my taste, its unwatchable.

I said that they have come a long way since '94. They should. They have an abundant of resources and quality infrastructure that only a first world nation can provide. Individuals have improved on the technical aspects without a question, but I am a quality football fan first, and in that respect US is still lagging by miles. I do not have emotional attachment with US soccer like I have with Bangladesh cricket. You clearly do. I didn't intend to hurt your feelings. You asked for comments and I made one, not a passing judgment, but from pure soccer point of view. Ok, I withdraw the word "shitty' to calm my dear friend, but nevertheless, its not upto my standard. I like quality when I don't have rooting interests.

Altidore is someone I look out for. He has it. Others are mediocore players at best in intl level. But, the lack of individual technical superiority can be made up with better scheme from coaches to mask some deficincies.

US goalies are quality. I don't buy for a second the notion that European coaches has an anti-American bias. They are professionals and because of that, if a talent is there in any corner of the world, they will go get him. It makes little difference to them whether the player comes from some obscure corner of Africa or some mega metropolis in US. They see quality in US goalies as I do, and look how many goalies are plying their trade in Europe. It has nothing to do with your citizenship.

Soccer is very popular in US among kids up to a ceratin age. It is more of a recreation, or a sporting activity for middle class to upper class high schoolers, yet when it comes to becoming a professional, very few pursue it. Majority of great soccer players come from poverty ( another generalization ! ) and they use it as an avenue to go places . Unfortunately, the US kids from simmilar backgrounds want to be ballers. Also, I am a big believer in tradition and culture. US is not there in terms of soccer culture. Look, they have the easiest path to make it to the World Cup year after year, thanks to the regional bracket they play in, yet that prime opportunity hasn't led to greater things.

I am certainly not disconnected from realities, nor do I have any stake in it. I am being fair to myself. I do not think US is anywhere near world quality. I will be the first one to acknowledge it if things change drastically. I am a fan first.

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Old July 30, 2009, 03:11 PM
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Just passing by will add input later just going to answer a few questions that were brought up, Klinsman wanted Full control from youth soccer to nats, USSF hung up the phone.

I dont like Bob, but some feel that it would be wrong to fire an MLS alum during the middle of a WC Cycle. Bob belives in MLS and doesnt play the talented youngsters who go through the hardships in Europe. It took a Ching Injury for Jozy to start, Freddy has been told play or else we wont play you. Mexico lets there Golden Boys play despite Gio not being able to cut it in Barca and Tottenham and Vela who only gets very limited minutes in Arsenal.

Beamer that Idiot in Monaco didnt play Adu because he didnt want to risk being relugated having an American starting. There is a stigmatism
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Old July 31, 2009, 12:14 PM
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Thats why Monaco is Monaco. Top teams care less where you come from.
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Old August 2, 2009, 01:39 AM
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Beamer you snob! ...
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Old August 3, 2009, 04:41 PM
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Yup, no pale ale for Beamer, only vintage brandy
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Old August 3, 2009, 08:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RazabQ
Yup, no pale ale for Beamer, only vintage brandy
Wrong. However, I am partial to aged Highlands Scotch- McCallan , to be precise..
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Old August 3, 2009, 09:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beamer
Wrong. However, I am partial to aged Highlands Scotch- McCallan , to be precise..
Good taste. Single malt is the way to go. I am also partial to Balvenie. These are akin to Brazilian football in spirit - pun intended.

Speaking of MLS - I miss rooting for a local team. LA is a different continent for me.
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Old August 3, 2009, 10:21 PM
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Good taste. Single malt is the way to go. I am also partial to Balvenie. These are akin to Brazilian football in spirit - pun intended.

Speaking of MLS - I miss rooting for a local team. LA is a different continent for me.
How About San Jose?

MLS needs to get rid of there Cap, Certain Teams play the right way but lack a quality striker to finish in the final 3rd, Others are just plain Hopeless, play style that is just plain ugly. If they could sign the 2nd rate Brazillians that play in Soviet Areas (Russia, Ukraine etc) it would be much eaiser on the eyes.

Also need to stop playing in NFL stadiums

If the USL had a TV deal they'd have a much bigger following. Puerto Rico, Portland, Montreal, Vancouver and Previosly Seattle. All have an awesome following and did well in the CONCACAF CL.
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Old August 4, 2009, 12:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cricman
How About San Jose?

MLS needs to get rid of there Cap, Certain Teams play the right way but lack a quality striker to finish in the final 3rd, Others are just plain Hopeless, play style that is just plain ugly. If they could sign the 2nd rate Brazillians that play in Soviet Areas (Russia, Ukraine etc) it would be much eaiser on the eyes.

Also need to stop playing in NFL stadiums

If the USL had a TV deal they'd have a much bigger following. Puerto Rico, Portland, Montreal, Vancouver and Previosly Seattle. All have an awesome following and did well in the CONCACAF CL.
The Quakes rock! San Diego can be a great market too. If they can get the US edition of a big club like America or Cruz Azul from Mexico, the way LA got Chivas, the market can be quite promising indeed.

LA is a different planet altogether. Tried living there twice but couldn't last for more than 1 week at a time. Sadly, still have to visit on occasion because some very close friends live there now. Great restaurants and beaches.
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Old August 4, 2009, 02:31 AM
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Against my better judgement, I root for the Revs
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  #17  
Old August 4, 2009, 09:42 AM
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That is a good idea. You know 3rd rate Brazilians ply the Ukranian, ex-Soviet, Turkish, Greek leagues. MLS should actively try to bring them about. If you pay them, they will come. Also, the NFL yard markings in a soccer game is such a turn off.

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Old August 4, 2009, 01:57 PM
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Correction: second rate Brazilians play in Central/Eastern Europe and quality Asian leagues in Japan, Korea and nowadays, China. Third and fourth rate guys play elsewhere including in India ...

That said, many of their third and fourth rate guys, much like our basketball and baseball players with NCAA experience and other NBA/MLB rejects playing outside the US and Canada, they are still the top players in those leagues.
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Old August 4, 2009, 02:10 PM
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Though I agree with the signing the 2nd rate brazilians. I'm sure they wouldn't mind being closer to their homeland.
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Old August 4, 2009, 09:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sohel NR
Correction: second rate Brazilians play in Central/Eastern Europe and quality Asian leagues in Japan, Korea and nowadays, China. Third and fourth rate guys play elsewhere including in India ...

That said, many of their third and fourth rate guys, much like our basketball and baseball players with NCAA experience and other NBA/MLB rejects playing outside the US and Canada, they are still the top players in those leagues.
Correction to the correction: Second rate Brazilians play in second tier leagues like French, Dutch, Portugese leagues. Third rates in where I said earlier.
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Old August 5, 2009, 10:15 AM
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Quote:
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Correction to the correction: Second rate Brazilians play in second tier leagues like French, Dutch, Portugese leagues. Third rates in where I said earlier.
With fundamentally different ideas as what constitutes "second rate" in Brazilian soccer, I think we're gonna have to agree to disagree ...

Guys like Juninho, the one who played for Lyon, is not "second rate" IMHO. The ones playing for Benfica and Porto aren't either. It's the player, not the league, even when the league produces players who move on to wealthier pastures in England, Spain and Italy.
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Old August 5, 2009, 10:58 AM
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You right about that though. There are always gems who gets overlooked otherwise for whatever reason. Play in lesser leagues, than move on to bigger teams with bigger purse.

Anyway..thought we were talking about US players.
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Old August 6, 2009, 03:43 AM
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We were ...

Since holding the ball is an area of opportunity for many American soccer players, they'll do themselves a favor by playing with Latin American, especially Brazilian, Argentinian, Colombian, and Mexican players. They can either have more players from those countries, known for good ball control, play in the MLS, or play in their leagues for a couple of years.
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Old August 12, 2009, 12:20 PM
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CONCACAF showcase game in 3 hours

My prediction 3-1 USA before 100,000 mexicans storm the fieldand try to attack all the players
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Old August 12, 2009, 03:55 PM
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Good one going on right now 1-1 @ half. Mexico look better tho at the moment, the ref is favoring the mexicans there goal should not have happened he's afraid and for good reason too. He wont make it out of Mexico alive if he called down the middle
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12.6 Syed Rasel to Sangakkara, OUT: What a delivery, completely fooled Sangakkara, first five delivery were the outswingers and now, this one comes in sharply, Sangakkara tries to left it and ball hits the off stump, top class bowling!
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