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  #1  
Old July 29, 2009, 01:22 PM
WarWolf WarWolf is offline
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Default Pace Attack: A Matter of Big Concern?

Muhammad Rafique, the legendary SLA, is probably the most famous spinner in Bangladeshi cricket. After he retirement, young spinners like Shakib Al Hasan, Abdur Razzaz, Mahmudullah Riad and Nayeem Islam occupied the vacuum space. A good number of young spinners are also waiting in the side line. Currently Bangladesh has one of the best spinning attack in the world.

But what about the pace attack? Is it good enogh for this level? Do we have sufficient numbers of good promising pacers waiting in the sideline? I am afraid that the answer will be a big NO. To me, the quality of the pace bowling department is deteroiting day by day rather than improving.

In the early days of our test cricket, we had very limited quality of pacers like Hasibul Hasan Shanto, Mohammad Sharif, Monjurul Islam, Mushfiqur Rahman. They tried their best to serve the nation not being much successful. Then we had seen the emergence of a true hearted fast bowler called Mashrafee Mortaza. But extra pressure on his young body forced this wonderful bowler stay away from the team for a couple of occassions due to injury. He is still in the team and leading the team formally as the official captain. But due to another injury he has to stay away from the team right now. To be frank, he couldn't reach anywhere he was expected to be simply because of the unprofessional way of handling him. He is merely a shadow of the promising fast bowler we have seen in him in his early days.

Then we had Talha Jubair, Tapash Baishya, Tareq Aziz, Nazmul Hossain. Interestingly none of them except Nazmul Hossain is anywhere near the national side. They are probably lost forever.

After that we have seen Shahadat Hossain, Syed Rasel, Farhad Reza and Rubel Hossain coming to the side. Everybody of them has been impressive in their very early days. But as time passes, all of them have started to lose their rhymthm. A pace bowler is expected to improve with time. But ours case is simply the opposite.

We have some good promising pace bowlers waiting to be regular in the national team. Mahbubul Alam, Dolar Mahmud are two of them. If we cannot handle them properly then there is a good chance that they will not be able to groom up as well as expected.

This raises a simple question, "Why this thing is happening over and over again?" Why we are unable to groom up these pacers? One simple answer may be "they are not good enough". But this is not 100% true. We don't know how to find good numbers of pacers and how to groom them up.

Since last one year our pace department looks to be getting weaker day by day. Bowling short and wide, juicy over pitch deliveries, lack of variations and lethal weapons like yorker, reverse swingers, good sharp bouncers making it difficult for our pace attack to take wickets. Our bowling coach seems to have no clue of these things.

We must not forget that we need our pace attack to perform regularly along with our spin departments to win matches. Otherwise we will never be able to get regular success against the top teams.
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Last edited by WarWolf; July 29, 2009 at 01:40 PM..
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  #2  
Old July 29, 2009, 01:45 PM
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  #3  
Old July 29, 2009, 01:48 PM
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Quote:
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hingshay jole pure chai hoye nijerta nije advertise kortese
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  #4  
Old July 29, 2009, 01:49 PM
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Quote:
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hingshay jole pure chai hoye nijerta nije advertise kortese
Ha ha. Original GB flavor.
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  #5  
Old July 29, 2009, 01:51 PM
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Good observation...even few months ago we were hoping we had numbers of pipeline players who can compete in international arena. We had even a debate when Dollar was included as a third pacer but showed us that playing in international level requires lots of experience, talent, and other essential ingredients of a pace bowler. In a matter of few months, we are now seeing big drop in performance of our key pace bowlers starting Mashrafee to Rasel, to Shahadat and Rubel. If you think Pipeline players are ready, we can stop right as we all knew what happened to Dollar. This matter is a serious concern and we really need to find solutions for it. Not sure if Champaka is working on with other pacers of A team and U19 team.
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  #6  
Old July 29, 2009, 01:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SS
Good observation...even few months ago we were hoping we had numbers of pipeline players who can compete in international arena. We had even a debate when Dollar was included as a third pacer but showed us that playing in international level requires lots of experience, talent, and other essential ingredients of a pace bowler. In a matter of few months, we are now seeing big drop in performance of our key pace bowlers starting Mashrafee to Rasel, to Shahadat and Rubel. If you think Pipeline players are ready, we can stop right as we all knew what happened to Dollar. This matter is a serious concern and we really need to find solutions for it. Not sure if Champaka is working on with other pacers of A team and U19 team.
Is Champaka working with national team players? I am simply not happy with the progress.
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Old July 29, 2009, 02:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WarWolf
Is Champaka working with national team players?
Of course. He's with the team in the West Indies as we speak.
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  #8  
Old July 29, 2009, 02:07 PM
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Instead of these meaningful thread every one here needs to put some thoughts on how make brain transplant machine. Pipeline diya jei gula aibo bas, dhoira shoja machine'er moddhey. When they come out, bye bye McGrath. Hail to the new best ever.

If you consider yourself patriot then you would start on the thinking process right now.

Am jonota, shobai ek hon.
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  #9  
Old July 29, 2009, 02:21 PM
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We have been hearing about a national pace bowling academy. What happened to it?
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Old July 29, 2009, 02:33 PM
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Good read Sadi bhai. Keep it up....I will comment a detail one later...
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  #11  
Old July 29, 2009, 03:08 PM
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My solutions:

1) Have all those aspiring pacers play good number of FC matches before bringing them to national team. As a fast bowler, you need lot more discipline and focus (more than a spinner needs) to bowl 6 good deliveries in each over. You are not going to develop discipline and focus bowling only in nets, you need to play real matches for that.

By playing more matches your body will be better conditioned, and will have less chance of injury when you come to the national team.

2) Prepare hard bouncy pitches that will have something for everyone - pacers, spinners, batters. 4 out of 6 divisional stadiums should have bouncy pitches (we still need couple of low-slow pitches so that our players learn to handle those kind too). Couple of them should have green tops too to encourage seam bowlers.

WI produced fast bowling greats when they had hard bouncy pitches. Now that their bouncy pitches are gone, so has their supply of quality pacers.

3) Last but not least, give good breaks in between domestic league matches (look how spread out Sheffield Shield matches are). Pacers take long time to recuperate. By stacking up matches, you are going to burn them up early in the season. I believe this is the reason our pacers show inconsistent form in domestic leagues and get frequently injured.

Also, by not stacking up matches, you will give curators needed time to maintain pitch quality.

Last edited by Eshen; July 29, 2009 at 03:22 PM..
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  #12  
Old July 29, 2009, 03:15 PM
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Dolar Mahmud sucks.
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  #13  
Old July 29, 2009, 03:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bangla-red
Dolar Mahmud sucks.
Why do you think so?
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  #14  
Old July 29, 2009, 03:56 PM
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Our pace attack is nowhere near world class and faaar behind the quality of our sppin attack. Having said that, our dependency on spin is part of the reason why BD pacers can't properly develop. The captains (Understandbly) don't trust pacers in critical situations. I'm not saying, Shakib or ash should just give the last over to Rubel; but slowly starting to shift some responsibility to the pacers will help them mature and learn from match situations.

Now that Shakib is a captain and he's a spinner, I expect to see more 2 over spells from Rubel adn Shahadat. Maybe this spin only strategy will work for us in the short term, especially against some teams; but if we want to become a consistent performer in the internatinal arena, we'll need a much better balance between spin and pace. Rasel adn Rajib has not done enough to help themselves establish permanently in the team, Rubel is still young, and Mash? well mash is above all these criticism about pacers. But proper coaching and a little more faith can help the other 3 as well as newcomers like Doller mahmmod find theor comfort zones and fulfil their roles in the team.
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  #15  
Old July 29, 2009, 04:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by habfreak
Our pace attack is nowhere near world class and faaar behind the quality of our sppin attack. Having said that, our dependency on spin is part of the reason why BD pacers can't properly develop. The captains (Understandbly) don't trust pacers in critical situations. I'm not saying, Shakib or ash should just give the last over to Rubel; but slowly starting to shift some responsibility to the pacers will help them mature and learn from match situations.

Now that Shakib is a captain and he's a spinner, I expect to see more 2 over spells from Rubel adn Shahadat.
Actually, telling a quick "You're in for a 3 over spell. Keep it on off stump, and bowl it as fast as you can" can be a pretty good way of keeping the edge on a strike bowler.

The Windies having, probably, 6 of the best 12 fast bowlers since the War between 1975 and 1985 was weird and unusual - before that, they had about equal numbers of good slow bowlers and fast bowlers, and after that, they havent had any worthwhile bowlers at all (Srinath or Vaas were better quicks than anyone out of the Windies in the last 15 years).

Traditionally, the subcontinent just doesnt produce fast bowlers, and honestly I think in Mash, Bangladesh has it's regulation one good quick. The BCB is doing what it can with the Pacer Hunt, and it's throwing up a couple of first-class prospects each year, on about a 3 year delay for training etc.

You can't just shake a tree and have good fast bowlers fall out of it ; if you could, I can guarantee Peter Siddle, Ben Hifenhaus or Mitchell Johnson would not be Australia's first string pace attack.
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  #16  
Old July 29, 2009, 04:33 PM
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There are many things that doesnt help our fast bowlers improve. The traditional pitches in BD are slow tracks that lack bounce, which is never an ideal pitch for pacers, we must change the outlook of these pitches because they seem to not only damage our pace development but our batting aswell. We need a different variety of pitches otherwise we will always struggle. Then comes BCB, these guys have destroyed many promising talents and I think alot of those wasted talents were promising fast bowlers who seem to be lost somewhere in domestic cricket. A typical bangladeshi does not have much strength and stamina compared to cricketing nations like australia or south africa, which is one of the most important factors for a pace bowler. What BCB should do is provide special care for pacers from youth level, make sure that they have a balanced diet atleast and invite famous fast bowlers into the country to mentor these kids for a month or so, that really helps. A good fast bowler can never be made in a day, the cricket board must monitor the fast bowler throughout his career and give him the sufficient resources needed to help him improve and if he has a tough time, dont just let him go help him through it.
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  #17  
Old July 29, 2009, 04:44 PM
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the only proven world class pacer BD has atm is mash and unfortunately he's injured, rasel use to be but i haven't really seen much of him after his comeback so don't know. guys like robin, rubel, shahadat, sajdul, subashis etc have potential but like many of us say potential doesn't always equal performance or a good player. these guys are young, they haven't fully developed but hopefully they will develop properly.
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  #18  
Old July 29, 2009, 04:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eshen
My solutions:

1) Have all those aspiring pacers play good number of FC matches before bringing them to national team. As a fast bowler, you need lot more discipline and focus (more than a spinner needs) to bowl 6 good deliveries in each over. You are not going to develop discipline and focus bowling only in nets, you need to play real matches for that.

By playing more matches your body will be better conditioned, and will have less chance of injury when you come to the national team.

2) Prepare hard bouncy pitches that will have something for everyone - pacers, spinners, batters. 4 out of 6 divisional stadiums should have bouncy pitches (we still need couple of low-slow pitches so that our players learn to handle those kind too). Couple of them should have green tops too to encourage seam bowlers.

WI produced fast bowling greats when they had hard bouncy pitches. Now that their bouncy pitches are gone, so has their supply of quality pacers.

3) Last but not least, give good breaks in between domestic league matches (look how spread out Sheffield Shield matches are). Pacers take long time to recuperate. By stacking up matches, you are going to burn them up early in the season. I believe this is the reason our pacers show inconsistent form in domestic leagues and get frequently injured.

Also, by not stacking up matches, you will give curators needed time to maintain pitch quality.
Thanks War Wolf for the thread.
And thanks Eshen for the solutions which are fantastic.
But BCB analysts, directors and managers are some dumbest incompetents on earth.
Jamies Siddons, when he came to Bangladesh as a coach, made a bouncy pitch of granite stones for batting practice.
BCB knows how badly we need a bouncy pitch for our pacers' development but still we do not have one because of the political appointments of these incompetent BCB directors, planners and strategists.
That is why they break their promise and waste millions for the politicians and their honeymoon in WI.
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Old July 29, 2009, 05:20 PM
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*holds his head in his hands*

Faguner,

In order.

''But BCB analysts, directors and managers are some dumbest incompetents on earth.''

As compared, say, to the WICB ? Or maybe the PCB ?

Actually, no, lets compare the BCB to every other institution in Bangladesh.

'BCB knows how badly we need a bouncy pitch for our pacers' development but still we do not have one''

Bangladesh is a wet, flat, low-lying tropical country. Therefore, turf wickets will tend to be slow. Unless, for example, you manage to dehumidify the air around the wicket for days to weeks.

Now, you can prepare bouncy wickets by use of astroturf over concrete ... but these wickets cannot be used for first-class cricket.

Note, for example, the way that New Zealand and Tasmanian wickets are not bouncy, as there's a fair amount of rain around in summer in both places.

Finally,'' That is why they break their promise and waste millions for the politicians and their honeymoon in WI.''

Look, BCB reports to Parliament, and Parliament can get them fired. The wasteful, useless junket probably cost about USD30k for the two of them ... but it wasnt the BCB's idea, and frankly I'd prefer not to pick a fight over 30 grand for people that can cancel the visa of the coach.
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Old July 29, 2009, 05:28 PM
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Dear IanW
Thanks for the thoughtful post.

Nobody here wants a fast bouncy wicket like WACA. We know it's not possible to have one in our country. You have no idea how bad the quality of the wickets used for the first class matches here. Most of the wickets outside Dhaka and Chittagong are nowhere near the international level. Even the fastest bowler on earth out find difficulties to give a bouncer on shoulder height in those kinda wickets.

We have some similarities in weather with India, Pak and Sri lanka. If we get the wickets they use for their domestic matches we will be more than happy. But I am afraid that's not gonna happen.
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  #21  
Old July 29, 2009, 05:55 PM
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I dont think its only to do with pitches. If that was the case Pakistan wouldnt have Waqar, Shoaib, Sami, Akram , Imran etc. Typically fast bowlers are physically strong and athletic men and they have to be groom up at an early age. One cant be a 25 year old and suddenly start bowling fast, his body simply wont support it. Food habit also plays a part, thats why Pakistanis are physically fitter and stronger than Indians and us.

So BCB cant have a quick solution for this problem, they can organise camps and talent hunts for under 16s/18s and if they spot some good ones, train them well /send abroad to MRF etc. As someone proposed already, divisional stadiums should have bounce or grass on the wicket for seamers. All these steps can help us gradually getting more fast bowlers.
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Old July 29, 2009, 06:06 PM
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Another thing. WI islands are also in heavy rainy zone. Yet they have been successful in installing fast bouncy wickets till near past.
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  #23  
Old July 29, 2009, 06:13 PM
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Warwolf,

They are traditional subcontinental tracks, and that leads to traditional subcontinental teams.

Look at the team in this match, 1966-7 Windies in India -

http://www.cricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/62996.html

India don't have a fast bowler.

This team, the 1971 Pakistanis in England

http://www.cricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/63073.html

Two quicks, one of whom is *the* Imran Khan at the very start of his career, and the other one is Asif Masood, whose 38 wickets in 16 tests at 41 puts him in the Rajib class (23 matches, 53 wickets at 43).

With the Pacer Hunt and the development programs, the BCB is doing all the right and appropriate things. Sure, they arent working fast enough for many of the Tiger fans, but, heck, you could have two Brett Lees and a Ben Hilfenhaus, and they'd be whining about not having a good old-ball bowler who can reverse swing.

Oh yeah, and as far as pitches in the West Indies, you've got a lot more sea breezes on small islands. Just be careful not to host cricket matches on the edge of the wet season, which starts in June and runs through to November, because then things will tend to get soggy.
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Old July 29, 2009, 06:25 PM
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IanW
As far as I know, we didn't have any pacer hunt program in the last two years( '08 and '09). Also total momentum of development is getting very slow and low.

Cricketing world has changed much in the last 3 decades. It's not like the 60s and 70s. ODI and T20 are new addition in the cricketing world. We must prepare ourselves for it. Otherwise we will be doomed.
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Last edited by WarWolf; July 29, 2009 at 06:32 PM..
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  #25  
Old July 29, 2009, 06:42 PM
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Ian is right, BCB is doing it's part to find strong able bodied boys and to nurture them. That's how we found Shahadat, Rubel, Subhashis, Abul Hasan, Aladdin Babu, etc. From what I seen in U/19 matches, our current U/19 pacers can actually bowl faster than England U/19 pacers.

However, being able to bowl fast is not good enough for international cricket, you got to develop skills to put that pace in use. That's where the concern is - our fast bowling products (Shahadat is the prime example) don't seem to be skilled.

BCB coaches can teach them different skills, but they will have to go out there and hone those skills in matches after matches (before they are being thrown in the national team), and for that we need to develop our FC structure properly.

Last edited by Eshen; July 29, 2009 at 06:52 PM..
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