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  #1  
Old August 4, 2009, 08:51 PM
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Default Two-tier Test Championship

As expected, West Indies' downfall have fueled proponents of two-tier Test cricket. Here is excerpt of Scyld Berry's latest article, where he proposed to create the second tier with West Indian countries, Bangladesh and Zimbabwe.

*Scyld Berry is the editor of Wisden.

Quote:
West Indies break-up may herald Test Championship

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/cri...mpionship.html

West Indian cricket seems to have a death wish, to judge by the inability of its administrators and players to pull together. Not even the ultimate humiliation of being beaten at home by Bangladesh has sparked any common sense, purpose or sanity.

Trinidad and Tobago are already talking of going their own way. Yes, it would be a great shame if they did. But only a common culture has held the Anglophone West Indian territories together, and this no longer appears to be strong enough. All other Test teams have been, and are, nation states.

Future West Indian administrators might just be competent enough to assemble a decent team for World Cups and Twenty20 tournaments. But in Test cricket their incompetence is now a sorry fact; and it might prove better for all concerned, in the long run, and after a painful separation, if the West Indian territories were to do what Trinidad proposes.

If so, then we immediately have a league of two, or three, natural divisions. Australia, England, India, New Zealand, Pakistan, South Africa and Sri Lanka would make up the first division. Play each other home and away in series of at least three Tests (but more if you want, as in the Ashes), give two points for a series win and one for a draw, and at the end of every three or four-year cycle you have a winner, with every game having a context.

The second division would start off by consisting of Bangladesh, Zimbabwe, and the five main West Indian territories: Barbados, Guyana, Jamaica, Trinidad and perhaps a Combined Islands team. There would be a real incentive for them to top their division and play off against the bottom team in the first division at the end of the cycle. National, not regional, pride would become the driving force, with the aid of governments and without the West Indian board getting in the way.

A third division would then consist of Ireland, Scotland, Kenya, Canada and the like. Again the division's top team at the end of the cycle would play off against the bottom side of division two – on the latter's grounds, so that promotion is feasible but difficult.

Statisticians might say the whole corpus of Test records will be devalued. But that cannot be a prime consideration – and the standard would rise if only the first division had Test status, and the second division played first-class internationals.

Besides, the historical corpus has already been devalued by Bangladesh – and by the West Indies reserve team who have just been beaten by them.

Last edited by Eshen; August 4, 2009 at 08:59 PM..
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  #2  
Old August 4, 2009, 08:56 PM
billah billah is offline
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Whoa !

I have not read too many articles where every sentence can be discredited.....
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  #3  
Old August 4, 2009, 08:59 PM
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This guy is out of his freaking mind. Oh well he gets money for writing this sh*t. He wrote what his stupid main said. But who cares about what he says?

This will never happend!! ICC will never let this happen. If they do so, cricket will die very soon.
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  #4  
Old August 4, 2009, 09:05 PM
Zunaid Zunaid is offline
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It is after all Scyld Berry. He is very popular on BC. Just do a search
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  #5  
Old August 4, 2009, 09:07 PM
Zunaid Zunaid is offline
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http://www.google.com/search?ie=UTF-...glacricket.com

And some gems:

  1. Hmm... A Scyld Berry gem! - BanglaCricket Forum


    A Scyld Berry gem! World Cup Cricket 2007. ... Ha ha ha... the same Scyld Berry who lambasted us in 2005 for picking too many teenagers for England tour ...
    http://www.banglacricket.com/alochon...ad.php?t=19733 - Cached - Similar
  2. Scyld Berry's latest entry: Virgin cricketers face mission ...


    Who is Scyld Berry? What the hell does it matter to us what he writes? He is in England, writing in an English newspaper for an English audience! ...
    http://www.banglacricket.com/alochon...ead.php?t=9990 - Cached - Similar
  3. The old canard surfaces again .... - BanglaCricket Forum


    By Scyld Berry From the UK Daily Telegraph... Excerpt: ... The report seems mostly sensational and Scyld Berry does not appear to have done any research ...
    http://www.banglacricket.com/alochon...ad.php?p=29645 - Cached - Similar
  4. BanglaCricket :: Bangladesh in England 2005 :: News


    ... for England - The Guardian, UK; Selectors' Mahmud dilemma - The Daily Star; England roll out red carpet for rivals (by Scyld Berry) - telegraph.co.uk ...
    http://www.banglacricket.com/tours/2...IN.../news.php - Cached - Similar
  5. Post-Match Article(s) - banglacricket Forum


    Scyld Berry from Telegraph really likes Tamim. Really nice article with lotsa local color ... http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/mai.../scscyl108.xml ...
    http://www.banglacricket.com/alochon...ad.php?t=20249 - Cached - Similar
  6. Rafique's open letter to Murali: Utpal Shubhro - banglacricket Forum


    That piece of patronizing arrogance disguised as an article is yet another reminder of why I hate Scyld Berry. capslock. View Public Profile ...
    http://www.banglacricket.com/alochon...ad.php?t=14829 - Cached - Similar
  7. External Item: Mismatch an insult to Test status [Telegraph ...


    Click for the latest piece of Scyld Berry :P. Spitfire_x86. View Public Profile · Send a private message to Spitfire_x86 · Find all posts by Spitfire_x86 ...
    www.banglacricket.com/alochona/showthread.php?p... - Cached - Similar
  8. BanglaCricket :: England in Bangladesh, 2003 :: News


    ... England get the sympathy vote (12 Oct) : Scyld Berry, telegraph.co.uk; Trescothick hits form (12 Oct) : BBC; Filling fields (12 Oct) : Vic Marks, ...
    http://www.banglacricket.com/tours/2...4/.../news.php - Cached - Similar
  9. I don't think THEY fully realize it yet! [Archive] - BanglaCricket ...


    By Scyld Berry, Sunday Telegraph Bangladeshi cricket - at least their one-day cricket - has improved out of sight since last autumn's Champions Trophy. ...
    http://www.banglacricket.com/alochon...ve/index.php?t... - Cached - Similar
  10. Please Don't Bring Test Status "Q" Anymore - BanglaCricket Forum


    Source: telegraph.co.uk Extracts from "Zimbabwe must lose their Test status". Scyld Berry gives the statistical reasons why ...
    banglacricket.com/alochona/showthread.php?t=4964 - Cached - Similar
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  #6  
Old August 4, 2009, 09:09 PM
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The writer is a complete moron
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  #7  
Old August 4, 2009, 09:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zunaid
It is after all Scyld Berry.
That's probably the only thing that's kept me from rolling my eyes towards heaven.
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  #8  
Old August 4, 2009, 10:28 PM
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ICC can devide it as 5-5. 1/2 low performer from top 5 will go down after certain period and 1/2 high performer from lower 5 will go up. We will be benefited.
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  #9  
Old August 4, 2009, 10:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Imteaz
ICC can devide it as 5-5. 1/2 low performer from top 5 will go down after certain period and 1/2 high performer from lower 5 will go up. We will be benefited.
That's my thinking too. In current situation, both Pak and NZ should join us in second tier (if it's created).

T&T can definitely field a much stronger team than current WI team. They should be fast tracked to Test cricket like Bangladesh was (after our ICC Trophy victory).

Pak, NZ, T&T, BD, Zim - that will be definitely a competitive league.
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  #10  
Old August 4, 2009, 11:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eshen
Quote:
Originally Posted by Imteaz
ICC can devide it as 5-5. 1/2 low performer from top 5 will go down after certain period and 1/2 high performer from lower 5 will go up. We will be benefited.
That's my thinking too. In current situation, both Pak and NZ should join us in second tier (if it's created).

T&T can definitely field a much stronger team than current WI team. They should be fast tracked to Test cricket like Bangladesh was (after our ICC Trophy victory).

Pak, NZ, T&T, BD, Zim - that will be definitely a competitive league.
Just think what will happen if Eng or Ind fails to stay in the top tier. They will never ever take that risk, knowing they are at a vulnerable position.

Here comes Raynman....
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  #11  
Old August 4, 2009, 11:05 PM
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To allow T&T, ICC has to take away the test status from WI first.

There are two possible solutions for current WI cricket.
1. Suspend WI for a certain period. ICC should tell them, Make everything okay and come back to play test.
2. Take away the test status from WI and break them down according to country. Let them play with ICC associate level for 1/2 years. According to the result, allow them to play test. Caribbean countries already have proper cricket structure. They don’t have to bother about it.

But, ICC must have to go for one of the above solution. Otherwise this kind of situations will go on.

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  #12  
Old August 4, 2009, 11:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tigers_eye
Just think what will happen if Eng or Ind fails to stay in the top tier. They will never ever take that risk, knowing they are at a vulnerable position.
I doubt that will happen. England, Australia, South Africa, India - all have robust structure and talent pool in place to maintain their standard. Sri Lanka is little behind them structure wise, but they are doing their best to catch up.

Comparing to them, NZ has a decent structure but a very small talent pool. Pakistan has a huge talent pool but no decent structure. So, no wonder that those two countries are declining in Test cricket.
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  #13  
Old August 4, 2009, 11:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eshen
I doubt that will happen...
You doubt that Eng or Ind will fail to stay in the top tier or
you doubt the tier system will not happen?

Eng vs SL in last three test series head to head

SL won 1-0 2003 at home
Draw 1-1 2006 at Eng
SL won 1-0 2007 at home.
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  #14  
Old August 4, 2009, 11:30 PM
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There are only 9 test playing teams. Why they need to create multi-tier? If they look for a second tier, why not promote another 10 teams? ICC is not thinking effectively in spreading cricket. Saying this, we have to stop playing non-sense. We have the ability and to win consistently, we need to make full use of it.
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  #15  
Old August 4, 2009, 11:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tigers_eye
You doubt that Eng or Ind will fail to stay in the top tier or
you doubt the tier system will not happen?

Eng vs SL in last three test series head to head

SL won 1-0 2003 at home
Draw 1-1 2006 at Eng
SL won 1-0 2007 at home.
T_E, Lanka is now a formidable Test side, losing to them hardly means English cricket is in decline.
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  #16  
Old August 4, 2009, 11:36 PM
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If ICC allows 10 more nation there will be nothing call Test Standard. All records will be broken. You never know Bradman's 99.94 average can be broken too. ICC is trying to popularize cricket by introducing T20. It will take some times. 2 tier will help us to improve.

Finally, We don't have ability to win consistently in Test Level till now. We should accept the Fact.
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  #17  
Old August 4, 2009, 11:47 PM
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When there were only 2 test teams, they did not allow a 3rd
When there were 3 test teams, they did not allow a 4rth
When there were 4 test teams, they did not allow a 5th...

...what the f- is wrong with these bottom of the bowel journalists...sambit bal and this guy berry whatever.

as far as i heard..india could not win a test in the 80s. why was a 2nd tier not talked about then. Anybody heard of WI talk about 2 tiers then ?

why did anybody not talk about 2 tiers during the packer times...with aus being left to rot in the 2nd

why did anybody not talk about 2 tiers in the 90s...the dark age of english cricket....

indians are again doing the same thing as their anchestors did 200 yrs back...going to bed with the whities with their mouth open for special service....only that now they can afford protection...
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Old August 4, 2009, 11:52 PM
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The only way to end all this nonsense is to introduce a ten-tier system. No one plays no one.
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Old August 4, 2009, 11:56 PM
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sri lanka are quality atm but i wonder if they will still be quality with the loss of guys like murali, mahela and sanga. england aren't in decline, but they're certainly going through a lean trot.

as for this 2 tier thing, well what's suggested in the article is bogus, BD hasn't been as good as the other test teams to date but currently they're the closest they've ever been. if BD was to play NZ, WI and pakistan right now i wouldn't be surprised if BD got some wins.

not many of the WI territories would be competitive so imo it would mean being in the 2nd tier would be an insult. as people have suggested above it would be better to have aus, india, england, south africa and sri lanka in the first tier with pakistan, NZ, BD, zim and WI (or T&T depending on what happens to the WI team) as the 2nd tier.

anymore teams and they'd need a 3rd tier which would include teams like ireland, scotland, netherlands, kenya. i also wouldn't mind the england and welsh team breaking apart and being separate, currently welsh players play for england, from what i've read they have put together a reasonable team in the past so it would be nice to see them again (though give them associate status at first).
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Old August 5, 2009, 12:04 AM
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Poor Berry - it's all changing on him and he's powerless to stop ... Poor poor Berry ...
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  #21  
Old August 5, 2009, 03:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Imteaz
If ICC allows 10 more nation there will be nothing call Test Standard. All records will be broken.
Cricket is not a new game. Maintaining so called 'Standard' does not mean that you have to deny entry of new nations in the test level. Make the game popular and help improving cricket of new countries, instead of terming them as rubbish, or threatening the existing ones of sacking.
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Old August 5, 2009, 03:41 AM
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Guardian: New Test cricket world championship to be discussed by ICC and MCC

A new Test cricket world championship, designed to safeguard the future of the five-day form of the game, will be reportedly be discussed at a meeting of the sport's lawmakers in November. The International Cricket Council will meet with the MCC's world cricket committee to look at proposals to boost the popularity of Test cricket amid fears it is losing its primacy, with the 50-over and in particular the 20-over formats on the rise.

The MCC are reported to favour an eight-nation competition in which teams play a best-of-three-match series, with the top-ranked sides progressing to the semi-finals and a final to be staged at Lord's.

Full Article
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Old August 5, 2009, 04:08 AM
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Good old Berry Having another round of dancing.

Thanks Zunaid bhai.

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  #24  
Old August 5, 2009, 04:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Baundule
Cricket is not a new game. Maintaining so called 'Standard' does not mean that you have to deny entry of new nations in the test level. Make the game popular and help improving cricket of new countries, instead of terming them as rubbish, or threatening the existing ones of sacking.
The main problem is Cricket is not a game like other sports. ICC is trying to popularize cricket by introducing T20. They can introduce more teams in T20 WC, than ODI World Cup, than Test. It will take time. It is ICC failure that they didn’t come up with this kind of idea in 80s or 90s. If they could, by now we could have 1-2 more teams ready for playing test. Now we are expecting within 10 years some other nations will be interested to play Test.

If you just introduce Test cricket all on a sudden that will definitely be a disaster. One Bangladesh cannot become 100% competitive after playing 9 years of test cricket, how do you expect other countries to play within a very short time.

As a cricket lover, do you want to see that Brian Lara's 400 is broken by Neil o Brian of Ireland against Bermuda (Just an example)?

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Old August 5, 2009, 05:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eshen
I doubt that will happen. England, Australia, South Africa, India - all have robust structure and talent pool in place to maintain their standard. Sri Lanka is little behind them structure wise, but they are doing their best to catch up.

Comparing to them, NZ has a decent structure but a very small talent pool. Pakistan has a huge talent pool but no decent structure. So, no wonder that those two countries are declining in Test cricket.
NZ to me is a pretty good team
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