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  #1  
Old August 10, 2009, 12:45 AM
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Zeeshan Zeeshan is offline
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Default Cross Section of Bangladeshi Batsmen

This is to discuss the nitty gritty details of techniques, skills, form and body mechanics of Bangladeshi batsmen. It's more than who has better SR in ODI or who is the best slogger. It's about complete breakdown of batsmen's strokes by tearing down his batting profile in various planes.

Let me start off with Shakib's analysis:

Here is the grading spectrum:

Quote:
Horrible-----Needs work-----Mediocre----Above Average-----Quite Good----Superior
-----1-------------3----------------5-----------------7---------------------8-------------10----
Shakib-al Hasan
Footwork: 7 (great but not exceptional)
Balance & weight transfer: 6 ( note how much he leans forward to reach for the ball)
Temperment: 8 (he gets the highest grade imo for any Bangladeshi; not prepared to give away 9 although it's quite exemplary, Iceman afterall!)
Coordination & Timing: 7 (okish, nothing like Jayasuriya or Tendulkar)
Strokemaking (range of shots in his repertoire): 7 (dont have the wagon wheel of this particular match but Ash got slightly more range of shots in his book)
Shot selection: 7
Improvisation & Creativity: 6 (Ash is better in this department as well)
Ability to pick singles: 6 (I'd say Ash excels him in RBW)
Ball assessment (leaving bad balls; playing according to merit): 7
Finesse and gap placement: 5 (harsh but is not good at cuts and sweeps)

Total score: 66 (Low but come'on as good he is from our perspective he has a long way to go to be batting geniuses like Sanga and Jaya)

From one of his finest innings (108 vs Pakistan) & general observations:



================================================== =======================

Tamim Iqbal
Footwork: 7 (his footwork is quite good and one of his greatest strength)
Balance & weight transfer: 7 (another of his strength, actually better footwork is responsible for this)
Temperment: 5 ( other than few exceptions he is very volatile; I am not being an s.o.b. but we should keep the whole picture of figuring out where he stands in terms of world class players)
Coordination & Timing: 7 (I rounded up from 6)
Strokemaking (range of shots in his repertoire): 6
Shot selection: 6
Improvisation & Creativity: 5 (not there yet)
Ability to pick singles: 5 (responsible for lot of run outs plus his natural aggressive style likes to deal more in boundaries in general)
Ball assessment (leaving bad balls; playing according to merit): 7 (this takes in consideration his achievement in recent test against Windies; he has tremendously improved upon it like Ash)
Finesse and gap placement: 5 (not there yet)

Total score: 60

From his WC India innings & general observations:



================================================== =======================

Mohammad "playboy" Ashraful
Footwork: 7 (in general it's ok although in this match he was slogging more using less footwork)
Balance & weight transfer: 6 (not quite as good as Shakib and Tamim, imo)
Temperment: 5 (very fluky; in general he needs to work on this)
Coordination & Timing: 8 (quite good, probably that's his greatest strength & talent)
Strokemaking (range of shots in his repertoire): 8 (got impressive arrays of shots)
Shot selection: 4 (poor choice of shots at often times)
Improvisation & Creativity: 7 (innovative but still has a long way to go; he needs to execute them perfectly too, which he failed during his first ball duck vs. Windies T20 trying to paddle scoop it)
Ability to pick singles: 7 (skilled @ RBW)
Ball assessment (leaving bad balls; playing according to merit): 4 (sucks)
Finesse and gap placement: 5 (misses that je ne sais quoi deftness)

Total score: 61 (Shakib leads him; low scores in ball assessment & temperment is the reason for his second podium)

From his England innings and general observations (reason I avoided Cardiff because of the anomaly factor....so I chose something in between his extreme case of peak performance versus Australia and today's performance against minnows to get a general picture):



================================================== =======================

How would you rate their skills and techniques? (Discuss any batsmen although it's hard to find videos of players like Mushfiq and Riad.)

Last edited by Zeeshan; August 10, 2009 at 07:57 AM.. Reason: Revised
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  #2  
Old August 10, 2009, 01:02 AM
Ninoy Ninoy is offline
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i just wanted to say Ash never showed temperament in like 3 maybe 4 innings in his life. Todays innings, 1st ODI against WI, the ODI where Sakib made 96 against SL in Bangladesh where Ash made something like 20. So basically in terms of temperament I would give him 1.
Also his shot selection has been rather poor, and he tends to get emotional a lot just like a lot of South Asian players, which furthermore caused him his wicket at times.
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  #3  
Old August 10, 2009, 01:16 AM
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Shakib and Tamim are OK but I am not agree with Ashraful. Technically, he has got everything 9-10. He is definitely better than Shakib & Tamim. His problem is something else that is psychological. He is always a wrong chooser of shot. Like same square cut should be played differently according to the bounce and pace of the wicket. Most of the time Ash missed out what he should play.


Footwork: 10 (Both front & back)
Balance & weight transfer: 9 (he can play all the shot)
Temperament: 8 (Don't forget his 158)
Coordination & Timing: 9 (some impossible shot like pool with one leg up against Harmison in 2005 natewest series where he made 94)
Shot selection: 2 (This is his main problem)
Variation: 8 (he can glance as well as pool over fine leg)
Improvisation & Creativity: 9 (scoop padel)
Ability to pick singles: 7 (this is actually intelligence and fitness)
Ball assessment (leaving bad balls; playing according to merit): 4 (agree, I will say play according to condition. bounce of pitch, pace of delivery and wind direction)
Finesse and gap placement: 9 (recall 100 against Australia & 158 against India)
Overall form & style: 8 (Form is temporary but his style shows his class)
The 9 I put just to give a chance of improvement.

Most of our batter has got the same problem. Only Shakib is different. He is very good at shot selection.

Another thing should be said about Ashraful is, he never thinks about his mistakes. Why he is not able to realize his fault, I don't know. But I think if we have a batter more experienced than him, Ashraful would be ok. Unfortunately Ash is the most experienced player of us. Coach should take the responsibility but Ashraful has to care about that.

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  #4  
Old August 10, 2009, 01:41 AM
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Okay let me clarify what I meant by shot selection/variation. It's the ability of batsmen to manipulate the field with diverse shots (basically equidistant rays of wagonwheel from the center). Those who think Ash got 'poor' shot selection may have misinterpreted my terminology because I reserved 'Playing ball according to it's merit' as 'shot selection.' Now, that - the latter ie 'reading' the ball and reacting- is poor for Ash.

Sorry for the confusion.
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Old August 10, 2009, 01:50 AM
Gowza Gowza is offline
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ash has poor shot selection but he is a strokemaker i.e. he has all the shots but often plays the wrong one. normally maturity will improve a players shot selection, in tennis they say a player who has more diversity and more strokes often takes longer to mature and work out the right shot for the right time and situation simply because they have soo many options, i'm sure the same applies to cricketers (not only batsmen but bowlers as well).
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Old August 10, 2009, 01:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZeeshanM
Okay let me clarify what I meant by shot selection/variation. It's the ability of batsmen to manipulate the field with diverse shots (basically equidistant rays of wagonwheel from the center). Those who think Ash got 'poor' shot selection may have misinterpreted my terminology because I reserved 'Playing ball according to it's merit' as 'shot selection.' Now, that - the latter ie 'reading' the ball and reacting- is poor for Ash.

Sorry for the confusion.
Thats OK. But in Cricket shot selection means what/how the shot will be played when/which ball. Like If the ball pitch outside the off stump in good length, the ball can be played

1. Leave the ball. (If ball goes straight or an out swing)
2. Defense the ball with full front footwork
3. Defense the ball with half calf front footwork (If the ball has got chance rise up)
4. Make an off drive (if you are in form and you can judge the level of swing 100%. it also depends on his confidence level.)

What Ashraful do, if he make an off drive in very first ball and get success he tries to make the same shot in every delivery outside the off stump pitching good length without judging the balls variation.


This is his main problem.

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  #7  
Old August 10, 2009, 03:45 AM
bd-omi bd-omi is offline
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Nice thread GB bhai.
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  #8  
Old August 10, 2009, 05:12 AM
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ZM, you're tackling a very wide range. I'd propose to select a single shot(like square drive, cut, cover dribe, glance etc) and compare how our batsmen play it. It'd provide some very valuable insight about why our batsmen get out against the flow of the game so often.

Good thread by the way. It'd be even better when Sohel vai graces it with his insights.
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Old August 10, 2009, 05:37 AM
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You have to give tamim a 1 or a 2 for picking up singles

there is a reason he was given the award for the most dot balls on average of all teams per innings either last year or the year before
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Old August 10, 2009, 05:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nzfan
You have to give tamim a 1 or a 2 for picking up singles

there is a reason he was given the award for the most dot balls on average of all teams per innings either last year or the year before
Ya,I agree.
Tam depends too much on boundries & very bad in picking up singles,he even gets run out or gets the other btsmn out.
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Old August 10, 2009, 06:05 AM
Gowza Gowza is offline
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tamim has the ability to pick up singles fairly easily, his issue as others have said is that he tries to deal in boundaries too much plus the tendency for runouts. when he matures to the point where he realises you don't have to get all your runs by boundaries he'll be a much much better player. the runouts are probably because he either gets a bit excited or paniced (if the run rate is dropping), but in terms of skills he has the ability to place the ball well enough to get singles, he just needs better judgement on the running side of things when it comes to the tight singles.
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  #12  
Old August 10, 2009, 07:40 AM
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Thanks for the input guys and pointing out the mistake of shot selection. I've corrected it and revised the score, replaced the rather vague category of "form & style" with shot selection and added stroke making section.

:-)

Last edited by Zeeshan; August 10, 2009 at 07:50 AM..
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  #13  
Old August 10, 2009, 07:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Siraji
ZM, you're tackling a very wide range. I'd propose to select a single shot(like square drive, cut, cover dribe, glance etc) and compare how our batsmen play it. It'd provide some very valuable insight about why our batsmen get out against the flow of the game so often.

Good thread by the way. It'd be even better when Sohel vai graces it with his insights.
Thanks. I agree!Where is he?
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  #14  
Old August 10, 2009, 09:27 AM
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Thanks for this thread
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  #15  
Old August 10, 2009, 10:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nzfan
You have to give tamim a 1 or a 2 for picking up singles

there is a reason he was given the award for the most dot balls on average of all teams per innings either last year or the year before
Yes, but things have changed since then. I have taken the century versus West Indies in consideration too which showed tremendous improvement of temperment, patience and his ability to pick up singles. :-)
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Old August 10, 2009, 10:56 AM
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Excelent topic. Interesting place to share a viewpoint from the batsman's perspective. IMHO,in the present team,ash is the most technicaly sound batsman. His footwork,timing &eyehand coordination is up to the virtuoso standard. His prime weak point is temperment rather than shot selection,I'd say. Your temperment deciedes wat shot u r gonna select.thts where ash lacks.if we dont take into consideration his recent 4/5 ODI innings,ash has 2 modes-on/off.in the on mode he plays with the attacking attitude,trying to dominate the bowlers regardless of wat situation the team is in.but when he goes to off mode,he blocks &pushes to find singles without any big shot.what he needs is merge these two modes &create another mode inbetween & then utilize these whenever wats needed. Thts temperment,play in the way the team needs u to play. If he can fix this, I'm sure he'll have no probs with shot selection. The man has got the skills,the guts & ability to use it. The only change he needs to make is in his mind,his head. Its pleasing to see in the recent 4/5 ODI's he is in tht path.if he can maintain it, with his skills & flamboyence,I'd say a shadow of the prince of trinidad is in the making for Bangladesh...and tht will be smthing!
Tht was my personal autopsy on ash's batting. Next time I'll share my views on the other chaps..comments pls?
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Old August 10, 2009, 10:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gowza
tamim has the ability to pick up singles fairly easily, his issue as others have said is that he tries to deal in boundaries too much plus the tendency for runouts. when he matures to the point where he realises you don't have to get all your runs by boundaries he'll be a much much better player. the runouts are probably because he either gets a bit excited or paniced (if the run rate is dropping), but in terms of skills he has the ability to place the ball well enough to get singles, he just needs better judgement on the running side of things when it comes to the tight singles.
Yeah but he is lazy. He doesn't like to run much. That's why he gets himself or his partner run out most of the times.
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Old August 10, 2009, 11:08 AM
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Gopal da, this is a very excellent thread and topic and you disected the grading system and analyzed it superbly! And a very good discussion is going on between the guys here! Good thread!!
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Old August 10, 2009, 12:39 PM
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Default :S

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZeeshanM
This is to discuss the nitty gritty details of techniques, skills, form and body mechanics of Bangladeshi batsmen. It's more than who has better SR in ODI or who is the best slogger. It's about complete breakdown of batsmen's strokes by tearing down his batting profile in various planes.

Let me start off with Shakib's analysis:

Here is the grading spectrum:



Shakib-al Hasan
Footwork: 7 (great but not exceptional)
Balance & weight transfer: 6 ( note how much he leans forward to reach for the ball)
Temperment: 8 (he gets the highest grade imo for any Bangladeshi; not prepared to give away 9 although it's quite exemplary, Iceman afterall!)
Coordination & Timing: 7 (okish, nothing like Jayasuriya or Tendulkar)
Strokemaking (range of shots in his repertoire): 7 (dont have the wagon wheel of this particular match but Ash got slightly more range of shots in his book)
Shot selection: 7
Improvisation & Creativity: 6 (Ash is better in this department as well)
Ability to pick singles: 6 (I'd say Ash excels him in RBW)
Ball assessment (leaving bad balls; playing according to merit): 7
Finesse and gap placement: 5 (harsh but is not good at cuts and sweeps)

Total score: 66 (Low but come'on as good he is from our perspective he has a long way to go to be batting geniuses like Sanga and Jaya)

From one of his finest innings (108 vs Pakistan) & general observations:



================================================== =======================

Tamim Iqbal
Footwork: 7 (his footwork is quite good and one of his greatest strength)
Balance & weight transfer: 7 (another of his strength, actually better footwork is responsible for this)
Temperment: 5 ( other than few exceptions he is very volatile; I am not being an s.o.b. but we should keep the whole picture of figuring out where he stands in terms of world class players)
Coordination & Timing: 7 (I rounded up from 6)
Strokemaking (range of shots in his repertoire): 6
Shot selection: 6
Improvisation & Creativity: 5 (not there yet)
Ability to pick singles: 5 (responsible for lot of run outs plus his natural aggressive style likes to deal more in boundaries in general)
Ball assessment (leaving bad balls; playing according to merit): 7 (this takes in consideration his achievement in recent test against Windies; he has tremendously improved upon it like Ash)
Finesse and gap placement: 5 (not there yet)

Total score: 60

From his WC India innings & general observations:



================================================== =======================

Mohammad "playboy" Ashraful
Footwork: 7 (in general it's ok although in this match he was slogging more using less footwork)
Balance & weight transfer: 6 (not quite as good as Shakib and Tamim, imo)
Temperment: 5 (very fluky; in general he needs to work on this)
Coordination & Timing: 8 (quite good, probably that's his greatest strength & talent)
Strokemaking (range of shots in his repertoire): 8 (got impressive arrays of shots)
Shot selection: 4 (poor choice of shots at often times)
Improvisation & Creativity: 7 (innovative but still has a long way to go; he needs to execute them perfectly too, which he failed during his first ball duck vs. Windies T20 trying to paddle scoop it)
Ability to pick singles: 7 (skilled @ RBW)
Ball assessment (leaving bad balls; playing according to merit): 4 (sucks)
Finesse and gap placement: 5 (misses that je ne sais quoi deftness)

Total score: 61 (Shakib leads him; low scores in ball assessment & temperment is the reason for his second podium)

From his England innings and general observations (reason I avoided Cardiff because of the anomaly factor....so I chose something in between his extreme case of peak performance versus Australia and today's performance against minnows to get a general picture):



================================================== =======================

How would you rate their skills and techniques? (Discuss any batsmen although it's hard to find videos of players like Mushfiq and Riad.)


THIS IS WHY PLAYERS SHOULD NOT COME TO BC CRICKET TO READ THE THREADS!!!
after a good performance it will destroy the confidence if barely passing the grade with a 60+ ... PS nothing wrong with ur annalysis its probably correct
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Old August 10, 2009, 12:46 PM
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Thanks and wow! what a first post rezwansyed! My first one was like: "fo reals dude" lol
Also thanks zaved vai.

Anyhoo, here is my analysis of Mushfiqur from memory:


Mushfiqur Rahim
Footwork: 6 (mediocre he has a specific problem addressing in next line)
Balance & weight transfer: 5 (it's awkward because of his kujo like behavior exacerbated further by his wicket-keeping stance; he needs to work on ergnomics and posture)
Temperment: 7 (he has saved our a$$ numerous times from under pressure)
Coordination & Timing: 6 (this one is vague because i dont have video so it's from memory)
Strokemaking (range of shots in his repertoire): 6 (again from memory)
Shot selection: 7 (more prudent than ash arising his consistency)
Improvisation & Creativity: 6 (nothing is standing out in my mind)
Ability to pick singles: 8 (highest as he is really good @ RBW and 'hustling')
Ball assessment (leaving bad balls; playing according to merit): 6 (again this one is from recollection)
Finesse and gap placement: 5 (nothing worthy of being highlighted so far)

Total score: 62 (beating Ash by a margin; shows how hard work pays off even slightly more than talent)

Feel free to disagree or elaborate further upon this.
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Old August 10, 2009, 12:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by godzilla
THIS IS WHY PLAYERS SHOULD NOT COME TO BC CRICKET TO READ THE THREADS!!!
after a good performance it will destroy the confidence if barely passing the grade with a 60+ ... PS nothing wrong with ur annalysis its probably correct
Nope.

You have entirely missed the point bro'. It's not your high schol A B C D grade. Purely subjective scale to sieve out players. I bet if I did Tendu or Jaya they would score like into the 80s although they are "A" class players. I think guys like Vivian Richards (after seeing Sohel vai's video!), Miandad, Gavaskar, Shastri, Sobers & Bradman will be some of the handful in 90s category.

So consider it a curve!
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Old August 10, 2009, 12:53 PM
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Z

If you want to make the nitty gritty, nittier and grittier, I would recommend you expand the "Strokemaking" segment with a pie chart, with range of strokes all around the ground, to find out which shots fetches the individual maxium and minimum of his runs. A cursory look at the three players innings-by- innings run chart ( from some notable scores ) will give you an indication of their strong and weak points.

Good read BTW.
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Old August 10, 2009, 12:56 PM
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Cool to see how your mind works ...

Try rating the following guys only if you've seen them bat:

1) Akram Khan Motku
2) Minhazul Abedin Nannu
3) Aminul Islam Bulbul
4) HaBa
5) Golla
6) Khondokar Mohammad Rajin Saleh Alam
7) Rokon
8) Opee
9) Hannan Sarkar
10) "All-rounder" Sanwar Hossain
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Old August 10, 2009, 01:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sohel NR
Cool to see how your mind works ...

Try rating the following guys only if you've seen them bat:

1) Akram Khan Motku
2) Minhazul Abedin Nannu
3) Aminul Islam Bulbul
4) HaBa
5) Golla
6) Khondokar Mohammad Rajin Saleh Alam
7) Rokon
8) Opee
9) Hannan Sarkar
10) "All-rounder" Sanwar Hossain
No sir! I will leave them upto you. I saw some of them bat in my "youth"; but, they are my pre-BC era. I started following BD cricket only after finding good chorai links here @ BC.
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Old August 10, 2009, 01:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZeeshanM
No sir! I will leave them upto you. I saw some of them bat in my "youth"; but, they are my pre-BC era. I started following BD cricket only after finding good chorai links here @ BC.
Good answer.
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