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  #1  
Old July 22, 2015, 05:02 PM
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Default Islam/Buddhism and Suffering (response to Nafi)

Quote:
>The Buddha taught that the root of all suffering is desire, tanhā

That is not at all the Quranic interpretation of suffering.

You shall certainly be tried and tested in your possessions and in your personal selves. (3:186)

Do men think that they will be left alone on saying “We believe” and that they will not be tested? (29:2)

Be sure We shall test you with something of fear and hunger, some loss in goods or lives or the fruits (of your toil); but give glad tidings to those who patiently persevere. (2:155)
There may be a difference of opinion and an issue of semantics.

The Quranic passages you mentioned isn't exactly refering to suffering, although yes, people may feel like they are "suffering" as a result.

The 3 verses you mentioned are a reference to the same thing: that God will test whichever of His servants He Wills, because He has promised them Salvation. Nothing is free, even with God. This is the struggle of this world.

From my limited understanding of Buddhist philosphy - and please, any resident Buddhists please correct me if I am wrong - the concept of suffering the Buddha talked about is totally different. Buddha talked about people's innate greed leading to never being satsified with this wordly realm.

The Quran is talking about God talking away lawful things from you as a Test, because He alone gave them to you to begin with. They don't belong to you in the first place.

Buddha was talking, not about things being taken away from you, but you desire for excess. More, more , more. More money, more cars, hotter wife, bigger house, etc.

But ultimately both religions teach nearly identical things in different language. Buddha that people have unreasonable and dangerous desires...and Islam that the nafs (soul) desires lawful and unlawful things. Both religions urge people to keep the tanha/nafs in check.
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Old July 23, 2015, 10:05 AM
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Ohhh, this was the "tangent" from the Is Sri Lankan Cricket Finished?? thread.
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Old July 24, 2015, 04:47 PM
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There may be one good thing about Buddhism what you can't find even its closest cousins. Like Shaotal's have a Lady-centered society and their own version of Buddhism, thus sexist. Buddhism lacks being sexist unlike most major religions. I have not read Tripitok so not so sure about inner verses of it. What I have seen from a close friend and his family it seems they do not have too many special rules for ladies. Like Burkah in Islam and burning wives alive with the dead groom like in Hinduism. I do not know how Buddhism explains Slavery but both Christianity and Islam have strict explanation on how to deal with slaves. Even in dealing slaves, there is a difference between male slaves and female slaves and male slaves are given much upper hand in both Old and New Testaments. This does not really make Buddhism any better. Just stating. It seems Woman regardless of root are subjected to additional suffering.
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Old July 26, 2015, 04:32 PM
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I recommend Abu Hamid Al-Gazzali's 'Breaking of the two desires'.

Why is it "shocking" that all revealed religions have many commonalities? Don't they derive from the same Source? Are we not united through our diversity?

As for Abrahamic faiths being "Black and white"...well, this statement demonstrates a serious lack of deep understanding of those faiths. Will do well to not make such generalisation, especially, in the matter of the vast oceans of great religions. Islam is the continuation of all revealed religion. In fact, all religions in their original revealed form is ISLAM. And, I say this from the Islamic perspective on religions (adyaan). The Islam Prophet Muhammad sallallahu 'alaihi wa salllam renewed and presented is nothing but the continuation of all revealed religions -Abrahamic or pre-Abrahamic. Perhaps, what I am trying to allude here is what SOME of our "Hindu" brethren might term as the 'Sanatan Dharma' in its true sense and spirit. And, of course, Allah knows best.
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Old July 26, 2015, 06:59 PM
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This seems to be one of the best videos to define in a nut shell
the origin of major religions and how they evolved.
(Courtesy of Business Insider.)

This animated map shows how religion spread across the world.

This animated map shows how religion spread across the world.

Posted by Business Insider on Monday, July 13, 2015
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Old July 26, 2015, 10:37 PM
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Buddhism isn't exactly a religion. It's more of a philosophy like Taoism, Conficiousism, Atheism etc where there is no existence of a God or Creator or a Super Natural Power in Control of all affairs. Neither any of them believes in resurrection & day of judgement for your deeds.

Buddhism believes in reincarnations & finally the "Moksh" when the soul is purified through repeated reincarnations, the pure soul gets vanished in the universe/nature .. "Nirvana"

So it's pretty difficult to compare it with other abrahamaic religions. But it has certain similarities with Hinduism, since mainly the Hindus who found no answer to many theories of Hinduism, like millions of God as a concept didn't sound logical to educated Hindus, so that's originated from basically Hinduism and can be called a sanatan version of atheism to provide some aethical guidelines to the then society...
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Old July 28, 2015, 03:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BANFAN
Buddhism isn't exactly a religion. It's more of a philosophy like Taoism, Conficiousism, Atheism etc where there is no existence of a God or Creator or a Super Natural Power in Control of all affairs. Neither any of them believes in resurrection & day of judgement for your deeds.
What is your definition of 'religion'?
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Old July 28, 2015, 07:33 AM
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^^ means you didn't read my post beyond that line
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Old July 28, 2015, 08:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BANFAN
^^ means you didn't read my post beyond that line
I read it all. I am however still drawn to the top level statement in which you almost insinuate the word 'religion' purely in association with theism.
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Old July 29, 2015, 12:36 AM
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^^^
Definition of Religion in Oxford dictionary: "The belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, especially a personal God or gods"

Now please re read my post OR Study Buddism to find out for yourself, how much it fits into a religion. Do tell me, why it should be a religion, where there is no supernatural being controlling anything or God/gods. May be I don't know enough.
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Old July 30, 2015, 09:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BANFAN
^^^
Definition of Religion in Oxford dictionary: "The belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, especially a personal God or gods"

Now please re read my post OR Study Buddism to find out for yourself, how much it fits into a religion. Do tell me, why it should be a religion, where there is no supernatural being controlling anything or God/gods. May be I don't know enough.
Well the rest of your post was driven by your root definition of 'religion' (from the Oxford Dictionary) so it is still irrelavent although the narrative is correct.

The Oxford dictionary does contradict itself by defining Buddhism as a 'religion' but then again it does present counter-nouns from which the term 'religion' is broadened.

It does depend on perspective - Peter Harvey would relate to the root definition you use where he draws parallels to the devotion of Buddha and Joseph Goldstein seeks linkages and commonality with other world religions despite there being the lack of a God or supernatural power.
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Old July 30, 2015, 05:10 PM
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Since when religion equates to "personal" God/s? Oxford has an interesting way of distorting/corrupting meanings. I wont be surprised at all if they defined "Bastard" as a "Love Child".
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Old August 4, 2015, 08:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by al Furqaan

From my limited understanding of Buddhist philosphy - and please, any resident Buddhists please correct me if I am wrong - the concept of suffering the Buddha talked about is totally different. Buddha talked about people's innate greed leading to never being satsified with this wordly realm.

The Quran is talking about God talking away lawful things from you as a Test, because He alone gave them to you to begin with. They don't belong to you in the first place.

Buddha was talking, not about things being taken away from you, but you desire for excess. More, more , more. More money, more cars, hotter wife, bigger house, etc.

But ultimately both religions teach nearly identical things in different language. Buddha that people have unreasonable and dangerous desires...and Islam that the nafs (soul) desires lawful and unlawful things. Both religions urge people to keep the tanha/nafs in check.
Of course I am not a Buddhist but I absolutely agree with you. I think both Islam (submission), Taoism (yielding) and Buddhism (nibbana) all are geared towards reduction of desires. But I find Zen Buddhism cerebral because of the self-referential puzzling nature of koans like : "desire to lose desire...than lose that desire as well!" to be of exploratory value.

I know it is a PG forum, but most "gayebi" experience I had was under ingestion of salvia divionorum when -call it hallucination- it was a direct experience of a cosmic force or 'spirits'. I guess believers can come from different places.

I do feel there is a palpable force in this universe, and when we die we open up that force and release that ruh or spirit. This "bottled up" spirit inside us is the Great Universe, or as Hindus call Atman.
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Old August 5, 2015, 05:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BanCricFan
Since when religion equates to "personal" God/s? Oxford has an interesting way of distorting/corrupting meanings. I wont be surprised at all if they defined "Bastard" as a "Love Child".
Everyone may not go by your definition or understanding of God, many Muslims will find it difficult to understand. Hinduism and many more do have personal God/gods.

For example, Someone might worship just the ancient tree at his backyard, because he believes, God represents that tree for him... Every time he visited that tree before doing something, he got it .. That's how the tree turns into his personal God, of which none else might just be aware of. But that person worships to that tree, that's his personal God. They believe, that God manifests himself to every individuals in unique ways and as such that's the manifestation of God for him. Very personal.

@yameen: Don't get confused, a religion by any definition of this world, must have a supernatural entity/God at the core of its belief, which exercises certain control on every affairs ... That I just said in lay man language. Show me some authentic definition which differs, I'll prove him wrong. You are just hitting around the bush bro .. Come to the point where you disagreed, now please define what's religion for you.
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Old August 5, 2015, 05:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by al Furqaan
There may be a difference of opinion and an issue of semantics.

The Quranic passages you mentioned isn't exactly refering to suffering, although yes, people may feel like they are "suffering" as a result.

The 3 verses you mentioned are a reference to the same thing: that God will test whichever of His servants He Wills, because He has promised them Salvation. Nothing is free, even with God. This is the struggle of this world.

From my limited understanding of Buddhist philosphy - and please, any resident Buddhists please correct me if I am wrong - the concept of suffering the Buddha talked about is totally different. Buddha talked about people's innate greed leading to never being satsified with this wordly realm.

The Quran is talking about God talking away lawful things from you as a Test, because He alone gave them to you to begin with. They don't belong to you in the first place.

Buddha was talking, not about things being taken away from you, but you desire for excess. More, more , more. More money, more cars, hotter wife, bigger house, etc.

But ultimately both religions teach nearly identical things in different language. Buddha that people have unreasonable and dangerous desires...and Islam that the nafs (soul) desires lawful and unlawful things. Both religions urge people to keep the tanha/nafs in check.
Yes the human beings have been created with the sense of right and wrong. So there will hardly be much variation in basic right/wrong issues. Even Hinduism, Christianity & Judaism talks the same as you mentioned. That's what the Atheists keep saying, that you don't need God to understand right & wrong. What differs is how to effectively & easily stay away from those.Human beings aren't designed to be able to control all evils by themselves, needs supplements. And some evils/wrong things are well disguised, you don't understand until you see the end result, but by then you have messed up.

As Islam says, in Quran, "Men Have been created weak" you can't resist doing wrong things even if you know it's wrong, the attraction is stronger than your ability to resist. Everyone may not be weak in same thing, Money, Wine, Women, Power, Anger etc etc" people have different levels of capacity to resist on different issues. But every person definitely has Atleast one weakness that he can't resist. So there is a medicine prescribed in Islam, that you pray/salat/ibadah, that will keep you away from your weakness. It's this medicine/prescription of different religions that distinguishes the religions from each other.

In Islam Allah says, He will or He might excuse you for every sin that you committed, but one thing he won't, that's "Associating partner" with him, that's "Shirk" so the similarity or difference between two religion actually doesn't depend on the judgement of right and wrong, but how you define your God and whom you worship and how you worship. That's the core difference between religions.
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Old August 6, 2015, 07:31 AM
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Dear Banfan,

"Personal God", as far as I'm concerned, is a post-modern construct and mostly coined by a body of people with no belief in the Divine or antagonist to such notion. Why are we hell bent on siding on their definition? Is it not appropriate to leave the matter of belief/faith to the practicing Muslim, Christian, Jew or a Hindu? Why should we allow a Boycott or one of the naysayers to define Bangladeshi cricket? When I discuss "religion" I do so in the universal term and not in particulars. Also, I usually have the major religions in mind. Not all religions and practices under the sun as time, as we know it, doesn't stop. If you ask a learned Sanatan Dharma pundit, most likely, he will resort to the high theology of his school -not fringe practices/theology or particulars. Additionally, the word 'Religion' might have a different etymological significance than that of 'Dharma' or 'Deen'. The "ting" is Jotil!

Anyway, gyaaner shesh nai, gyaaner chesta britha tai.

With Love (the universal),

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Old August 6, 2015, 07:33 AM
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Btw, I do like your last post!
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Old August 6, 2015, 07:58 AM
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Live life as you see fit, try your best to help others and be a nice bloke.

Thats all that matters IMO, find it impossible to believe all members of other faiths are condemned to hell for being born into a different faith, or that a religious man who is a total dhead gets a free pass because he prayed often, because lets be honest, 90% of people whether they be Muslim,Catholic,Buddhist etc. are only members of that religion because they were born into it and taught that it was the correct one.
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Old August 6, 2015, 08:24 AM
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When we discuss religions why people have this undying passion for reducing it to caricatures/pop-religion? The ones they have been fed by school, TV, "News" and all forms of media. The religion is not all about "holy" wars, hell-heaven, eternal damnation or 72 virgins. Do they not know any better? Too lazy to do their own research but still carry an "opinion"?

I like it when the humanist almost never fails to remind the religious the mantra of "live and let live" or "harm no one" or "do good" as if these are somehow alien to them. Religions co-existed for thousands of years and still continues (despite all the geo-international-politrics) while "humanist" secular ideas like communism and capitalism or democracy drops atomic bombs on each other or everyone else.

Wake up, people!
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Old August 6, 2015, 03:14 PM
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Islam and Buddhism are totally different things. The only common thing between them is they fall under category of 'religion'. In the same way I am similar to Brad Pitt because we are both 'man'. But in reality we are nothing like each other. Or as I have been told by everyone.

In fact, Islam is not any like any other religion. It stands on it own. There is no absolute monotheistic religion beside Islam. The other two Abrahamic religion claims to be monotheistic but it is far from it. The Christians (catholics) believe in the trinity and take Jesus (AS) as the son of God. The Jews take Uzair (AS) as the son of Allah (some sects as mentioned in the Quran) and their belief is also corrupted in power of God (i.e. God coming to earth to wrestle with Jacob)

But Islam not only states in the one-ness of Allah but also manifests that in every single form of statement and single every form of worship. Mohammed (pbuh) is a prophet but also a slave of Allah. The prophet was born, he breathed, and he died. Just like any other man. We believe in Allah in the absolute sense of singularity. He is the one and the only.

Allah has perfected and chosen Islam as the only religion. It is not like anything else. It is free from imperfection and it is not comparable.

while on topic, I also do not like use of this emoticon " " and will never use it. It symbolizes prostrating to something else beside Allah. While we might not have that intention, but it does have that subtle form of shirk. So we are better off not using it. I know some people will object to it but that is just my own belief.
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Old August 6, 2015, 04:11 PM
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The fact that Mr Pitt is a man just like you - anatomically speaking- is the fundamental point here. Everything else is relative and matters of perception. I have a feeling Pitt might be jealous of you at times.

Most religions have a concept of unmatched diety (surely, Islam is explicit and unequivocal in this) despite the appearances. We have to study or deduce this creatively. Take the concept of 'People of the Books' and ask yourself the question as to why Allah 'azza wa jal has make this distinction. I hope you will see the Divine Wisdom there. That "distinction" is nothing but inclusion of them into the Ummah in its broader definition. The prophet of Islam commanded his companions to treat the Persians (fire worshippers) with respect as they were also given a "Book" like ours. Some of the wise Mughals extended that spirit to the "Hindus". I don't mean Akbar I and his Deen-e-Elahi.

No doubt all the religions are quite distinct in many aspects and have many differences. And, I have not a shadow of doubt in the absolute superiority of Al Islam as the complete and perfect way of life and guidance for the mankind. But, despite the outward differences religions have many great things in common, especially, in the matter of Essence. Outwardly poles apart Buddhism and Islam can be reconciled in many aspects -if there is a will, understanding and the presence of the required creativity. Just to start the ball rolling -what is the definition/meaning of a Buddha? Is it not a Nabi or a prophet?

BTW, I totally agree with you when it comes to the usage of THAT emoticon and like you I have never used it and never will. Public, nowadays, do stuff and imitates things blindly and without any knowledge. Take the two horns rock n' roll hand gesture. These are not merely meaningless or harmless "fun"!
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Old August 6, 2015, 04:51 PM
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ive talked about the links between buddhism and islam before. Its not necessarily black and white that both are just completely different from each other. Same goes for hinduism like in the vedas its funny it actually prohibits worshiping of statues and calling to follow the one god. So you will see some religions do lean towards monothiesm but the people do not actually read the scriptures and change the religion in their own terms and also the scriptures have been altered.

http://www.banglacricket.com/alochon...9&postcount=80

That is why Islam stands so strong on its own because the Quran has zero contradictions, Quran has stayed the same from the time The Prophet (pbuh) revealed it and people to this day try to follow the exact ways of The Prophet.
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Old August 6, 2015, 05:10 PM
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If worshiping or prostrating is the only thing you are looking for in a religion, then you are do missing the entire point of religion. If someone is dropping atom bombs on a person probably if he is a nastik or an idol worshiper is not the first thing I would be looking for.

Do look up the meaning or root of the word from Latin religare.

Btw these common religions may have existed for thousands of years, but initially mankind was (and still is in many parts) animists and shamanic before organized religion started coming -be it Christian or Islam - and started ousting them for 'devil worshiping'
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Old August 6, 2015, 05:13 PM
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I read a popular hadis where one -----re was granted access to paradise since she fed a crying puppy water while some other dude prayed like every frikkin day but was rude to a person once or something and got toasted and roasted in hell like a shish kebab.
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Old August 6, 2015, 05:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeeshan
I read a popular hadis where one -----re was granted access to paradise since she fed a crying puppy water while some other dude prayed like every frikkin day but was rude to a person once or something and got toasted and roasted in hell like a shish kebab.
Some one must have lied to make that up, as a Hadith. There was no way for even the prophet to know such things, unless that's revealed to him. It's not revealed we know, because it's not in Quran, so it's a lie. "Prophet Didn't Know About Gayeb/unseen" only Allah knows.
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