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  #26  
Old January 8, 2010, 07:37 PM
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AsifTheManRahman AsifTheManRahman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rommel
Why are we so happy about putting up 250+ in 3 straight innings? Sure, the batting against India was pretty good, but I don't feel the same way about the other 2 matches against SL. 249 and 260 on this batting paradise is the same as scoring 190 on a normal pitch. Nothing to get excited about. While other teams are now crossing 300 regularly, we are going crazy for 250...
Ideally, you would have been spot on. We need to get 350 before we can start to think of winning against these teams and 250 is a joke in comparison. However, there are several buts:

1. Almost after an eternity, we're finally seeing some consistency in our line up. We have been chasing down 300+ scores and defending scores close to 300 (albeit against weak opposition). Even a couple of years ago we'd be hard pressed to score 250 on flat tracks against the likes of Zimbabwe, but over the last few series the batting has really been shaping up. In the past, on a bad day we'd get bundled out for anything between 160 and 180 and those days would come pretty often. Now, we score 250 on a bad day. All of our batsmen are chipping in with good scores and we're actually a lot better in building an inning. There's still lots of room for improvement but I think it is pretty evident that that improvement will come with time.

2. We're playing two teams whose batsmen are beyond human. These guys came to Dhaka after beating each other up like they were fighting a World War. They came off scoring 400 in an ODI inning each, which is phenomenal even on a good batting track. Only South Africa and Australia are capable of matching the kind of cricket they're playing right now. Which brings me to my next point.

3. Had this been New Zealand, England, Pakistan or the West Indies, we would have won some of these games. We would have scored more and we would have defended better.

4. Honestly, did fans really expect to win against the monsters that are batting for India and Sri Lanka right now? Especially with the bowling attack that we have? Sure, every time you go out there you do so to win, but let's be practical for a bit. Guys like Kulasekera, Murali and even Sreeshanth are much better than what we currently call international bowlers and if these guys were able to score 300+ so comfortably against them, there's no reason why they wouldn't murder our bowling.

To really beat teams like India and Sri Lanka, we need dustier surfaces, earlier starts and all of our main bowlers to be fit and in form. So don't fret, because we will beat up England when they come over for a cuppa' later on.
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  #27  
Old January 8, 2010, 07:41 PM
Purbasha T Purbasha T is offline
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Okay,why is the next match timer set for the 1st Test against India? What happened to the ODI?
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  #28  
Old January 8, 2010, 07:45 PM
Purbasha T Purbasha T is offline
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Nicely put ATMR.

Edit: And Zobair.
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  #29  
Old January 8, 2010, 07:48 PM
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agree with zobair and ATMR.

although, i will say that shakib probably shouldn't have said that aloud.

at any rate, our boys are fearless, they do believe they can beat anyone. but lets remember, that we do the exact same thing!

Miraz bhai, you lambasted the BCB for the flat pitches, because it was playing into the strength of the opposition. if this is fact and true, then sakib must also feel teh same way.

i understand the idea of not putting India and other teams on a pedastle, but at the same time, we have to realize that players, even fearless ones, sometimes throw in the white towel.

remember last world cup, dravid was asked after they lost to lanka, if he felt India could still survive since Bermuda just had to beat Bangladesh by any margin and he replied "not really".

also, teams throw up the white flag all the time. look at how english team went crazy avoiding an inings defeat against South Africa.

now if shakib were to say something like "we cannot win against India in our world up match, they're too strong, so i'll just bat first and hope for the best" everything changes.
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  #30  
Old January 8, 2010, 10:03 PM
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It doesn't appear as if most fans here have played any competitive cricket, at any level, including secondary school.

I'm not even sure if too many of them have tried to earn something really hard beyond and above their talent and initial effort.

I continue to hail BD cricket, its team, Captain and players. You bring us joy, and continue to climb up the pedestal one step at a time. We are there always for you buddies as long as we see good effort and genuine desires to make progress leaving behind a decade of rash and jittery batting.

Now, BCB, go quickly and find us some decent pacers.
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  #31  
Old January 8, 2010, 10:12 PM
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And go Siddons!
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  #32  
Old January 8, 2010, 11:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zobair
At present Bangladesh is much more capable of setting 300+ targets against good oppositions than chasing those sorts of scores down. Clearly the team thinktank decided that India would - relatively speaking - have a more difficult time chasing down a large score. He was simply articulating that. I wouldn't beat down too harshly on him or his personal attitude. No one who remembers how Shakib chased down SL's score last year and the manner is which he did to get us into the finals should doubt his "never-say-die" attitude.
Very well said Zobair bhai, I think fans like us should not have short term memory... We all know how fearless our young cricketers are! Let's give them some time and space to develop... there are not world beaters yet, they need time to climb up the ladder of international cricket. Fans like myself tend to be impatient with the team, but we should remember that improvement of players and the team is a gradual process.
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  #33  
Old January 8, 2010, 11:34 PM
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I'm very disappointed with sakib..our bowling would've done much better bowling first because it was a spinner heavy attack..and i don't think it would've been it so easy for india to cross 300 without dew..it was a big big mistake..and there might be other reasons other than sakib's lack of confidence behind this decision.

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  #34  
Old January 9, 2010, 01:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rommel
Why are we so happy about putting up 250+ in 3 straight innings? Sure, the batting against India was pretty good, but I don't feel the same way about the other 2 matches against SL. 249 and 260 on this batting paradise is the same as scoring 190 on a normal pitch. Nothing to get excited about. While other teams are now crossing 300 regularly, we are going crazy for 250...
This is where the credit comes. Out batting has reached a certain level that after even some rapid collapse we are still able to survive and score runs. We have never seen this before. I am happy that Shakib thinks this way. We have to admit that still we are young teen-agers and we are learning fast to be adults.

Shakib and Siddons, I am with you.
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  #35  
Old January 9, 2010, 03:06 AM
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Quote:
They seem to be the words of a man lacking in confidence, but Shakib believes it's self awareness from a man who knows the limitations of the team and someone who is practical.
I wonder if it has been inculcated by Siddons himself. Hate to be a jerk of a Freudian shrink here and excuse me if I am coming swinging in brutally honest words but.... Does Siddons himself feel that way about his "limitations" for not making it big in ODI arena? But I hope to hell I am wrong. Because if I were there, I'd ask Shakib to define "practical"... at least Ash wasn't bounded by limitations of "practicality" and played more fluidly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mahmood
I find this kind of mentality unacceptable from the captain or any players. On our day, we can beat anyone...be it India batting first.

Can't wait for Masri to return and take the leadership.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miraz
If you can't even think of winning before the start of the play, please don't bother turning up.

I can't accept this type of mindset. I respect Dav Whatmore for his work on changing the mindset of Bangladeshi boys. Siddons is doing fine with the techniques, but he is not a motivator. I thought Chacha would solve the motivation problem, but I am really disappointed. Technique is at best 50% in any sports, the thirst to win constitutes the rest.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miraz
Agreed, this happened when he won the toss. Now according to his words.. if India won the toss and opted to bat first, he would have lost the match immediately after toss.. just knowing that India would bat first and pile up runs. This mindset is not acceptable. He must change it if he wants to be successful. Period.
Complete agreement.
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  #36  
Old January 9, 2010, 04:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AsifTheManRahman
He made the wrong decision, .
Was it Shakib's decision or team management's?!!!fficeffice" />
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  #37  
Old January 9, 2010, 04:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zobair
At present Bangladesh is much more capable of setting 300+ targets against good oppositions than chasing those sorts of scores down. Clearly the team thinktank decided that India would - relatively speaking - have a more difficult time chasing down a large score. He was simply articulating that. I wouldn't beat down too harshly on him or his personal attitude. No one who remembers how Shakib chased down SL's score last year and the manner is which he did to get us into the finals should doubt his "never-say-die" attitude.
Spot on.


Whoever wants to challenge Shakib, come and get me first...
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  #38  
Old January 9, 2010, 05:09 AM
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sakib sshould have bowled first agaisnt india...
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  #39  
Old January 9, 2010, 06:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rommel
Why are we so happy about putting up 250+ in 3 straight innings? Sure, the batting against India was pretty good, but I don't feel the same way about the other 2 matches against SL. 249 and 260 on this batting paradise is the same as scoring 190 on a normal pitch. Nothing to get excited about. While other teams are now crossing 300 regularly, we are going crazy for 250...
Exactly.Thats what people here dont understand.Cricket is now batsmen's game,and scoring 250+ runs in a batting paradise is nothing to cheer about.But yes,against India the score of 297 was really a good one.
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  #40  
Old January 9, 2010, 07:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kalpurush
Spot on.


Whoever wants to challenge Shakib, come and get me first...
Spin is our strength usually...by thinking of what the other team's strength is, he completely forgot his own team's strength. Just assuming India will score 350 is just plain dumb coming from a captain. (Saying it is much dumber.) There is a higher chance of Bangladesh just losing a match if we look at it that way. Doesn't mean we'll just throw in the towel.

I'll tell you something though, Sakib as a cricketer does have balls, more than anyone bar Tamim. He also has some leadership qualities unlike any before him for a long time. He will take us places.. the sooner he believes in every member of his team, the better. I was really proud of our batting, despite the pitch being flat. We actually seem to have a game plan now for batting. Which is good.

Just have more confidence in your bowlers next time.Our bowlers can be one of the top 5 in a few months' time. We are better than the Indians in spin, and almost better in pace with a 2nd/3rd string attack.And our fielding is way better. We need to believe in ourselves more. Its Sakib recently that is making us believe we can.
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  #41  
Old January 9, 2010, 08:13 AM
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frankly speaking, Shakib's decision to bat first against India amazed me first but then i got the feeling tht tht was a challenging and sensible one and he was almost right if we had either dhoni or kohli out cheaply. What shakib did bad is that, during India's batting, he let them to run freely and settle down quickly.he failed to manage other bowlers to motivate to bowl good line and length according to the field. But i guess, its part of the game. It would be better if shakib learns quickly from his mistakes. I do not understand why some of the BC members and fans are going mad about shakib. Let him have a breathing space, dear frnds. Shakib himself having a hard time to get his form back, any kind of extra pressure on him will put him in big doubt which ultimately wont be good for us. He is already doing a great job any way in mashrafe's place.

Last edited by Naimul_Hd; January 9, 2010 at 08:26 AM..
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  #42  
Old January 9, 2010, 12:11 PM
Purbasha T Purbasha T is offline
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One thing I'm seeing is that so many of us dint credit the bravery of Shakib (if he really was the one who decided) to let India chase in such hostile bowling conditions; isn't that sorta confidence for you?
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  #43  
Old January 9, 2010, 01:10 PM
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All we are saying bangladesh batting has improved and we have scored 250+ score in all 3 matches, but no one is thinking that this pitch is dud-vaat pitch for batting. I belive even Zim will score 250+ in every match against this 2 team. In this pitch 250 score is nothing but a 200 score in sporting pitch. That's why Ind and Srilanka is winning so easily even after our 250+ score. This is a shame for BCB that we could not make a pitch like last year BD-Zim-Sri series. In this pitch we have no chance of winning a single match against them. We have 4 spinner and certainly the pitch should help all the way to the spinner and only spinner. Then we had a great chance... we have missed it because of BCB's wrong thinking and This is truely unfortunate for BD team.
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  #44  
Old January 9, 2010, 01:21 PM
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there was no bravery of Shakib by deciding batting first. simply he did it because he was afraid that india will pile up the mountain of runs and BD will loose the game even before the 2nd innings start. but he was wrong because he should have been consider the previous game where india managed only 270 against srilanka even after such a bright start by shewag. we actually didn't give our bowler any chance to bowl well in a playing condition (without dew). Who knows may be our bowler could restrict them within 300 run and we could chase 300 runs in a dew condition (because bowling is difficult + batting is easy in dew condition). we simply have missed an oppurtunity.
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  #45  
Old January 9, 2010, 01:41 PM
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Tommorrow we are bowling first. Wasting my night sleep on seeing them bowl but whatever, i am tired of losing, so maybe surprises ahead
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  #46  
Old January 9, 2010, 03:09 PM
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well asia cup was played in pakistan which had batting paradise tracks..every team was scoring 300 but we scored 300 once against UAE and a 283 against india but then 226 and a 174 against sri lanka and a 115 against pakistan.. so in total we had we had 2 scores of 100 2 in 200 range and 1 300 against a minnow team..in this tournament we had 3 scores of 200 range..so we can see we have really improves our batting..so we as fans should be happy that this team is really improving..and oo ya 2 add another thing..in case people think roqibul shouldn't be in the team..he averaged the highest out of all our batsmen with an average of 39 and top 10 in runs scored out of all the teams with a SR of an 89 in case people were wondering..
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  #47  
Old January 9, 2010, 04:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Purbasha T
One thing I'm seeing is that so many of us dint credit the bravery of Shakib (if he really was the one who decided) to let India chase in such hostile bowling conditions; isn't that sorta confidence for you?
true that!
p.s ur picture still cracks the f*** out of me lolz!!
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  #48  
Old January 9, 2010, 10:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miraz
He failed in his strategy which was not well though out. You must leave it like this. I don't think any leader gets applauded for failed strategies, doesn't matter how good it was.

Strategy may fail one day and succeed the other day. What irritated me is his public admission that he feared Indian batting line up and it was not possible for them to chase down whatever score India would have made.
Miraz,

You cleverly avoided the answer. And that non-answer actually, quite precisely, answered my question.

Readers on this forum have starting confusing strategy for execution and outcome. All 3 mean different things. Objective Commentators applaud strategies regardless of the outcome. They also criticise strategies even when the outcome is favorable (A certain Mr. Ponting will testify on that). A team can mess up perfect strategy with poor execution and vice-versa. An outcome depends on lot more, not the least, the counter-strategy and efforts of the opposition.

As far as public admission of so called "defeatist attitude" is concerned, here is a public statement from a guy who won Qatar open today by defeating Rafael Nadal.

"I was just fighting. I never thought about winning. I didn't think I could win".

Thanks god Davydenko is not a BD player. He would've been slammed on this forum left and right for having a defeatist attitude, never mind that he just won a tournament playing against a champion player
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  #49  
Old January 10, 2010, 03:05 AM
Banglatiger84 Banglatiger84 is offline
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I dont think the decision to bat first was wrong. However, 2 things made us lose:

1) Shakibs runout
2) Not pressurizing India when they were 51-3

As others have commented, choosing to bat was a gamble that just about came off
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  #50  
Old January 10, 2010, 06:07 AM
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Shakib's only fault here was being too honest with the media. It's fine to privately think that india will score 350+ and your team will struggle to chase that, it's another to say so publicly...
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