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  #26  
Old January 19, 2010, 01:33 PM
WarWolf WarWolf is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beamer
I know what you are saying Warwolf. I was looking for a stop gap solution at this point until someone emerges from nowhere. All of our players have technical issues, Rahim included, but he at least plays positively and plays situational game fairly well. I just don't trust Ash. I don't think Riyad is ready for such a big leap. Rakib, as I have mentioned is still too shaky, so Rahim is an option. But, I am fine without him playing at no.3 as well.
Stop gap solution won't work against top teams, I am afraid. They are too clever to utilize the weakness of a player.

No.3 is a specialist position. Naeem won't be a solution here too. Basically he is a good middle order batsman who comes in no.5 or no.6 position for his divisional team in NCL. While playing for the A team, he used to play in this position too. I am afraid until someone good for this position arises, we have to bear Ash. Sad but true.
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  #27  
Old January 19, 2010, 01:39 PM
WarWolf WarWolf is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wiseshah
i think BCB should definitely think of shohrawardi shuvo now. its time to debut the young guy before its too late, i think we should consider him against england. then we will have 4 genuine allrounder

mahmudullah
sakib
naeem
shuvo
and we can arrange our line up with much more flexibilty. depending on ash for one half century or century in a blue moon time is over, its time to move on. he didnt learn in last several years, he will never learn.
He is only 22 years of age and surely it won't be too late for him if he has to wait for another 2/3 years.

His first class stats..

First-Class Career Batting and Fielding (2004/05-2008/09)
M I NO Runs HS Ave 100 50 SRate Ct
Overall 25 39 9 745 85 24.83 0 4 45.39 26
First-Class Career Bowling (2004/05-2008/09)
Balls Mdns Runs Wkts BB Ave 5wI 10wM SRate Econ
Overall 6152 265 2546 128 6-71 19.89 9 2 48.06 2.48

It's clear that he is not a capable batsman for this stage yet. I have been against trying Big Z due to the poor averages in the first class. Same logic applies for Shuvo too. International cricket is not a place to increase someone's first class average. It's practically impossible. You have to stand tall before coming to the side. Unless you have averages over 30, there's no point in trying you in the national team. Please keep in mind, Shuvo doesn't have any first class hundred too.
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  #28  
Old January 19, 2010, 01:40 PM
Imtiazk Imtiazk is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miraz
I would go with the following order in Test matches. I will also take Naeem in place of Shahriar Nafees as he will be wasted at number 8 position. If we still keep SN, I would play him at number 7.

Tamim
Imrul
Raqibul
Mushfiq
Riyad
Ashraful
Shakib
Naeem
Shahadat
Shafiul
Mahbubul/Rubel
My thoughts are similar except the following:

I would not take Imrul. Notwithstanding his innings. He plays across the line far too often. In fact, twice in 3 deliveries, he employed this horrible swipe, the second given out and the first fortunately given not out. He also hits "on the up" - nothing wrong with that - except the shots themselves are uppish. Unless this glaring lack of technique is amended he should not play. We cannot preserve someone just because he scored 23.

I would also include Naeem as I think he is very capable. My worry about him is that he maybe pigeon-holed [ by selectors and fans ], just because he is a good powerplay batter. Actually he is a good powerplay hitter because he is a good batter as he can improvise in the given situation.

I would not promote Mushfiq that much as he has wicket-keeping duties. Ideally, like Gilchrist and Boucher I would like to send him like now at No.7. However, given our brittleness at the top, I would push him up a little. I agree with Raqibul at No.3. He is made for it.

Similarly, for Riyad and Sakib , I would take into account their bowling duties. Since, this is supposed to be my ideal batting line-up currently, I will go for the following XI, even though some are not in the squad:

Tamim
Zunaed
Raqibul
Ashraful
Mushfiq
Shakib
Riyad
Naeem
Shahadat
Shafiul
Mahbubul/Rubel/Rasel

I have a problem with Rubel. He is our fastest bowler. Fine. However, as long as he is erratic, he will simply be fodder for test class batsmen. This test is a good example. Shafi will also go, if Murtaza is fit. Shahdat has improved a mile because, ironically, he has lost a bit of pace and gained better direction.
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  #29  
Old January 19, 2010, 01:51 PM
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Tigers_eye Tigers_eye is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Imtiazk
My thoughts are similar except the following:

I would not take Imrul. Notwithstanding his innings. He plays across the line far too often. In fact, twice in 3 deliveries, he employed this horrible swipe, the second given out and the first fortunately given not out. He also hits "on the up" - nothing wrong with that - except the shots themselves are uppish. Unless this glaring lack of technique is amended he should not play. We cannot preserve someone just because he scored 23.
Excellent observation. So what is the excuse for Ash taking the #6 position? He scored 2. Some 11+ times better than the 23 which is unacceptable in your books. Last one year he averaged 11.5 runs. How come he gets your approval? In the last innings he was as shaky as anyone in recent times. Dropped once, didn't carry in another time before he walked back to the pavillion. With 50+ test matches under his belt performances like this is better than the 23 of Imrul?
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  #30  
Old January 19, 2010, 01:54 PM
WarWolf WarWolf is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tigers_eye
Excellent observation. So what is the excuse for Ash taking the #6 position? He scored 2. Some 11+ times better than the 23 which is unacceptable in your books. Last one year he averaged 11.5 runs. How come he gets your approval? In the last innings he was as shaky as anyone in recent times. Dropped once, didn't carry in another time before he walked back to the pavillion. With 50+ test matches under his belt performances like this is better than the 23 of Imrul?
Ash won't last for long. But he will keep his place for 2/3 years more until someone comes to occupy his place.
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  #31  
Old January 19, 2010, 02:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WarWolf
Stop gap solution won't work against top teams, I am afraid. They are too clever to utilize the weakness of a player.

No.3 is a specialist position. Naeem won't be a solution here too. Basically he is a good middle order batsman who comes in no.5 or no.6 position for his divisional team in NCL. While playing for the A team, he used to play in this position too. I am afraid until someone good for this position arises, we have to bear Ash. Sad but true.
Ash is not at no.3.

Unless we find someone from outside, and given what we have among the current crop, I do not see anyone but a stop gap solution in Rahim. I do not think Rakib is ready. I am reluctant to move Riyad that high and Sakib is where he is. We can always go with Siddons three opener strategy, but so far, it hasn't yielded to anything significant. Moving Rahim up also brings in Naeem in the team.
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  #32  
Old January 19, 2010, 02:46 PM
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Fazal Fazal is offline
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There is no excuse for BCB for not giving Naeem a chance for TEST.

Naeem has the international experience needed (ODi exposure) before getting TEST
Naeem has the success with our natioanl team in ODI
Naeem is in form, the best time to bring a young stud...
Middle order batting is still a concern for us....
Naeem still manag to get wickets when other fails
Naeem showed against ZIM how to build an innings
Naeem knows how to rotate stirke but also know how to score runs if team need that..

Its time to BCB to admit their fault and bring him back in 2nd TEST....

With a combo of Nameem-Ryiad-Sakib-Mushfiq.... we will solve the middle order problem right now.

Tamim is a must for now.

So is Imrul before he start failing....Juniad as a standby may be ok... but not for now.

SN...I am not sure... too little to judge. I would try him for the rest of the series before dumping him or giving him a slot for extending period of time in future series.

I will stick withh rakibul for now ... but will start looking for alternative if he continue to fail for the whole series...

So who goes for Naeem?

The village idiot.
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  #33  
Old January 19, 2010, 02:51 PM
wiseshah wiseshah is offline
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I love fazal"s analysis
agre with u

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  #34  
Old January 19, 2010, 03:34 PM
wiseshah wiseshah is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WarWolf
He is only 22 years of age and surely it won't be too late for him if he has to wait for another 2/3 years.

His first class stats..

First-Class Career Batting and Fielding (2004/05-2008/09)
M I NO Runs HS Ave 100 50 SRate Ct
Overall 25 39 9 745 85 24.83 0 4 45.39 26
First-Class Career Bowling (2004/05-2008/09)
Balls Mdns Runs Wkts BB Ave 5wI 10wM SRate Econ
Overall 6152 265 2546 128 6-71 19.89 9 2 48.06 2.48

It's clear that he is not a capable batsman for this stage yet. I have been against trying Big Z due to the poor averages in the first class. Same logic applies for Shuvo too. International cricket is not a place to increase someone's first class average. It's practically impossible. You have to stand tall before coming to the side. Unless you have averages over 30, there's no point in trying you in the national team. Please keep in mind, Shuvo doesn't have any first class hundred too.
How about considering him as a bowling all rounder. He was highest wkt taker in dpl and under 19 level andge was consistent also.

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  #35  
Old January 19, 2010, 03:39 PM
Gowza Gowza is offline
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1 tamim
2 imrul
3 raqibul
4 riyad
5 shakib
6 rahim/naeem
7 rahim/naeem
8 shuvo
9 shahadat/robin
10 rubel/robin
11 shafiul/robin

i'd be more inclined to bat naeem at 6 (or maybe 5 and have shakib at 6) and rahim at 7 just because in test cricket your #7 should either be a genuine allrounder or your keeper and naeem is a batting allrounder at this point. rahim does deserve a promotion, but i think riyad should get one first and i don't think the batting is strong enough yet to go in with 6 main batsmen which includes the keeper and then a bowling allrounder at #7.
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  #36  
Old January 19, 2010, 04:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fazal

So who goes for Naeem?

The village idiot.
what happens if the village idiot scores a century in second innings?

I dont think we will see much change in the lineup for second innings, but I dearly hope that they send Riyad earlier at 4 or 5.
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  #37  
Old January 19, 2010, 05:51 PM
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Fazal Fazal is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BangladeshFan
what happens if the village idiot scores a century in second innings?
let it happen first....we have done enough with those iffs and butts....

But then again as you started with iffs and butts.... what happen if he again score a single digit?

Further more what happens if he continue to score all single digits for the rest of this series?
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  #38  
Old January 19, 2010, 06:27 PM
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AsifTheManRahman AsifTheManRahman is offline
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Mushfiq must bat up the order. #3/#4. Naeem will make a good Test batsman one day. He might be ready already. Nafees can be in the squad, but not the XI yet. Let Riyad come in late for now. Let him score a couple of big ones before we promote him.
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  #39  
Old January 19, 2010, 08:04 PM
chol_bd123 chol_bd123 is offline
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1. Tamim
2. Zunaed
3. Mushfiq
4. Rokibul
5. Ash
6. Sakib
7. Riyad
8. Naeem
9. Shafiul Islam
10. Shahadat Hossain
11. A good pacer or spinner as we don't have either yet to take this spot

Unfortunately Naeem and Riyad are last but somebody has to be there to save our necks in the end. We have a long batting lineup. If they go in that order, we will win score 400+ in the next match.

Rubel sucks, so does Enam and SN+Aftab
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  #40  
Old January 19, 2010, 08:55 PM
Gowza Gowza is offline
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we have a long batting order but the tail starts really quickly. shafiul, shahadat and rubel are all terrible, shahadat is probably the best because he gets some bat on ball and somehow manages to stay around for a little bit to get some runs, shafiul looked aweful, i heard some people saying he wasn't such a bad batsman, well he is.

and i disagree we have no good spinners around, shuvo has been doing well for a number of years and can bat a bit but i'd consider his bowling to be at the standard of a specialist bowlers. saqlain sajib has also been impressive over the last few years. we might not have another shakib in the dressing room but tbh he's pretty much at the top when it comes to spinners, especially the current lot running world cricket.
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  #41  
Old January 21, 2010, 01:16 AM
WarWolf WarWolf is offline
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Let me propose my ideal team here.

1. Tamim Iqbal
2. *****
3. *****
4. Mushfiqur Rahim
5. Shakib Al Hasan
6. Mahmudullah Riyad
7. Nayeem Islam
8. (One specialist spinner. Ideally a good leggie if available)
9. Shahadat Hossain
10. Rubel Hossain
11. Shafiul Islam (Either Rubel or Shafi has to leave if Mash is fully hit. I don't think that's gonna happen soon for test matches)

Now the major concern is # 2 and # 3 place. I don't wanna see Ash in test matches from now on. He has to play really really well and has to get an average of at least 45 for two consecutive domestic series to earn a call back again. Raqibul is a very much limited batsman. He never seemed to me a solid batsman in all of those 6 test matches he played. He lacks shots and more importantly is too fragile around the off-stamp. He needs to work hard for another two years in the domestic level before earning a call back again.
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  #42  
Old January 21, 2010, 01:32 AM
wiseshah wiseshah is offline
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my question is: do u think our selector will think beyond 14 selected players

not sure if naeem will come in
mostly they will give chance to zunaed
if shuvo comes in, we will have plenty of bowling option

tamim
Imrul/junaed
rokibul
mushfiq
mahmudullah
shakib
naeem
shohrawardi shuvo
shahadat
shafiul
rubel
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  #43  
Old January 21, 2010, 01:33 AM
Gowza Gowza is offline
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i'm also worried about raqib in tests, he is limited which means his role is going to have to be the anchor role and to move the run rate along through singles and 2s without taking much risk. if he's going to get a few more test matches i'd like to see him at the #3 spot because i really don't want to see SN in the test side atm and ash really isn't performing so shouldn't be there either. imrul is in a similar boat but the thing is we don't really have any other opening options unless we go back to the ones who have already been tried and failed not so long ago.

in terms of spinners i don't think we ahve much variation, the next best are shuvo and saqlain sajib, when it comes to leg spinners it's really the u19 guys or raihanuddin arafat who has unimpressive stats or alok kapail (unless you go for a marshall ayub but he's basically a bastman).

also what about sajidul islam as a possible pacer? maybe not for this test series because coming back from injury he might be under done but after he's played a few FC matches he might be worth selection. also talha has been getting great figures, maybe he's worth thinking about.

Last edited by Gowza; January 21, 2010 at 01:41 AM..
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  #44  
Old January 21, 2010, 01:57 AM
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al-Sagar al-Sagar is offline
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tamim
mehrab jnr
ashraful
mahmudullah
shakib
naeem
mushfiq
mahrafe
nazmul/rshahadat
rubel
enamul
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  #45  
Old January 21, 2010, 02:45 AM
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i don't know if we should drop ash. i'd say keep against IND/SL and put him down the order, he can't play pace at all, and should never bat higher than 5 in Tests.

its high time mushy gets promoted. still to early to drop rock, but SN must go.

i think we should go with this lineup for the 2nd test:

1) Tamim
2) Imrul
3) Junaid
4) Rahim
5) Rock
6) Sakib
7) Ash/Naeem
8) Riyad/Mehrab Jr
9) Shahadat
10) Shafiul/Enam
11) Rubel
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  #46  
Old January 21, 2010, 03:29 AM
BD-Shardul BD-Shardul is offline
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I don't know. I am losing my patience on Rokibul. It takes 50 balls at max to pulverize our so called Rock.
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  #47  
Old January 21, 2010, 04:17 AM
Gowza Gowza is offline
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drop ash and SN, move rahim and riyad up the order, drop shakib down to #7 and play naeem as the #6 batsman.

1 tamim
2 imrul
3 raqibul
4 mushy
5 riyad
6 naeem
7 shakib
8 shuvo/dhiman (depending on conditions or what team dynamic you want)
9 shahadat
10 robin/rubel/shafi/sajidul
11 robin/rubel/shafi/sajidul

maybe taking some batting responsibility off shakib will help him become a better test batsman....mushy's 40 odd in the first innings and century in this last innings have changed my mind about keeping him down the order, which means if we want another batsman in the team then we should bat shakib at 7 and play him as a bowling allrounder. there is no point in bringing naeem into the team and batting him at 7, he's not a test quality spinner (riyad is also questionable) so it's a waste of a spot putting him at 7 so he either bat's top 6 or doesn't play imo. #8 needs to go to either a specialist keeper who has some skills with the bat or a bowling allrounder because we need that batting depth. yeah i previously said naeem could come in as a batting allrounder and maybe bat at 7 but after re-thinking i reckon that's stupid, he should be played as a batsman and nothing else in tests (of course he can roll the arm over if needed).
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  #48  
Old January 21, 2010, 09:18 PM
M.H.Rubel M.H.Rubel is offline
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Batting in the toporder or upper middleorder is a very difficult task.None of Ash or Raquibul seems to me a material of that place.We need to drop ash from the team.Raquibul got the temperment but he is weak against pace.He is very weak around off stump.I think Rock needs more time. We have no better option than Imrul in opening.In #3 no way other than SN or Junaid.
BTW i think we can think Riyad and Mushy in #4 or #5.

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  #49  
Old January 24, 2010, 02:00 AM
magic boy magic boy is offline
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Top Order still collapsing . I don't like this three opener in a row batting line up. we need stronger no 3
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  #50  
Old January 24, 2010, 02:35 AM
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Tamim Iqbal
Shahriar Nafees
Rajin Saleh (Can dig in at the crease)
Mohammad Ashraful
Shakib Al Hasan
Mahmudullah Riyad
Mushfiqur Rahim
Mashrafe and the others.

Imrul Kayes, Raqibul Hasan, Junaid Siddique can't even make it to Kenya second XI.
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