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  #1  
Old January 25, 2010, 09:46 AM
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Default the BD pace trio - Shahadat, Shafiul, and Rubel

actually i am quite impressed with them in this series.

Shahadat- earlier i saw he was making big grunts but still could reach only 120-125 km/h max. but now looks like he has gained some pace. and the delivery he produced to knock sehwag today was awesome. also the ball that took Dravid to hospital.

Rubel: he is bowling at good speeds. he today beat sachin and dravid numerous time. can reverse the ball which is a great advantage.

Shafiul: good prospect. has this ntini type action and angles the ball into the right and away from lefties. really troubled gambhir today and that ball which he got his wicket, i cant remember somebody got gambhir out in that fashion in last few years.

the trio has bowled far better then any pace duo, trio played tests before for bangladesh. at least they have bowled more wicket taking deliveires or wicket threatning deliveries than before.

but still they had the same old problem, lack of consistency of line and length and bowling bad deliveries very often and thus giving four-five runs every over.

these bowlers have a good prospect. also there is nazmul and mashrafe to return plus the likes of sajedul, robin, dollar who had some taste of cricket for the national team.

i think we should sack ramanayeke and bring a bowling coach ho can teach them how to bowl at a consistent line and length more regulalry. also to let them learn on what is the perfect line for a particular type of pitch.

i remember a time when newwzealand had a bowling line uo od Doull, nash, larsen and allott in tests. in that team there starategy was to hit a food line and length and bowl maiden overs and frustate batsmen. and doull, nash and specially larsen was master of bowling maiden. and they tightened up the runs rarely bowwling bad deliveries and oppositions get frustated. i think we have to adopt something like that.

anyway i am optimistic about our bowlers and i hope with the guidance of a good coach they can go the right way
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  #2  
Old January 25, 2010, 10:28 AM
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I wholeheartedly agree. For a decade now we've been looking for some TALENTED pacers, and now we have a few. This is excellent. I've always dreamed of the day Bangladesh would have a 4-prong pace attack. Though the aren't quite the greatest pace bowling unit in the world yet, or anywhere near that mark for that matter, I have big hopes for these pacers, and the future of Bangladeshi pace bowlers.
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  #3  
Old January 25, 2010, 10:49 AM
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Enough with Left handed finger spinners...now we need 3/4 full throttle real pace bowlers who will break opponent batsmen's jaws specially in TEST matches !
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Old January 25, 2010, 11:02 AM
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Dear offstump,
You think all these bowlers improvements have nothing to with the current bowling coach? All I see is criticism of Champaka and no credit given for anything.
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  #5  
Old January 25, 2010, 11:07 AM
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These guys have a long way to go. They may be talented, but other than Shahadat I don't think they're ready for Test cricket yet. Even Shahadat has got a lot of work to do. For example - and this is just one example - he strays down the leg way too much. Easy pickings for anyone, let alone subcontinental batsmen who are so good off the pads.

I'm tired of watching bowlers show a lot of promise without any end result. Pretty much every fast bowler starting from Manju to Talha to Sharif to ... to Sajed to Robin to this bunch has shown "promise", but none of them have turned out to be long term solutions.

Let me be clear that I don't blame the players for this. I'm sure these guys will become good with time, but I'm not sure they should be playing Test cricket yet. Figures of 100+/0 off 23 overs aren't exactly inspiring, no matter who the opposition is. I just feel that these guys will be giving us much more if they make their way to the national team through a process where they play a few FC seasons at home and go on enough overseas FC tours. The reality is Shafiul has only played 7 FC games and Rubel was picked off the streets from a pacer hunt program.
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  #6  
Old January 25, 2010, 11:09 AM
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At the end of the day, we're still lacking the kind of penetration early on in a Test match that Mash would provide once in a while.
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  #7  
Old January 25, 2010, 11:27 AM
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The pace trio are very promising. They will be better pacers if our fielders can support them well. Dropping simple chances make them look ordinary, a fast bowler gets pumped up whenever he gets a wicket. On the other hand, butter fingered fielding can be very demoralising for the pace bowlers specially when they are toiling hard.
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  #8  
Old January 25, 2010, 11:38 AM
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What's up with Rakibul? He was supposed to be one of our best fielders.
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Old January 25, 2010, 11:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AsifTheManRahman
What's up with Rakibul? He was supposed to be one of our best fielders.
thats what im saying... he looks clueless with the bat also. He wants to get his butt kicked off the team very soon.
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  #10  
Old January 25, 2010, 12:13 PM
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not per standard bowling.
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  #11  
Old January 25, 2010, 12:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AsifTheManRahman
At the end of the day, we're still lacking the kind of penetration early on in a Test match that Mash would provide once in a while.
It is one thing to *look* hostile. Quite another to actually get wickets. Looking impressive is not quite enough, if you cannot get wickets. A 200 run lead at the end of day 2 and with half the side yet to bat is a very very difficult position to be in. Opening bowlers need to do a lot more with the new ball. Fast Bowlers have a distinct advantage with the new ball and in the early morning. Letting opponent openers score a (near)100 run partnership against red cherry just does not cut. India has had this problem for long. Many young bowlers look very promising. Finally they finish up with average of 35 in 2 years and you never about them again nor do you want to hear about them again.
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Old January 25, 2010, 12:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ganesh
It is one thing to *look* hostile. Quite another to actually get wickets. Looking impressive is not quite enough, if you cannot get wickets. A 200 run lead at the end of day 2 and with half the side yet to bat is a very very difficult position to be in. Opening bowlers need to do a lot more with the new ball. Fast Bowlers have a distinct advantage with the new ball and in the early morning. Letting opponent openers score a (near)100 run partnership against red cherry just does not cut. India has had this problem for long. Many young bowlers look very promising. Finally they finish up with average of 35 in 2 years and you never about them again nor do you want to hear about them again.
Agreed.

The boys are still very young and two them have just 4 Tests between them. I am impressed with their speed and aggression. If our batsmen can score some decent runs and these bowlers have some runs to play with, they willl be better bowlers in no time.
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  #13  
Old January 25, 2010, 12:33 PM
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Well overall our pacers are putting in more effort....which is why they are getting more pace and looking more threatening....hopefully it gets better....
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  #14  
Old January 25, 2010, 12:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tigers_eye
Dear offstump,
You think all these bowlers improvements have nothing to with the current bowling coach? All I see is criticism of Champaka and no credit given for anything.
actually i expected much better and quicker results from champaka one of my fav ex-players
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Old January 25, 2010, 01:05 PM
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World, watch out RSS in few years time
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  #16  
Old January 25, 2010, 01:11 PM
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yes they are good. Though Rubel didnt get a wicket, but i saw him bowling many wicket taking balls and batsman were uncomfortable
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  #17  
Old January 25, 2010, 01:37 PM
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Tests: Mash, Shahadat, Shafiul and Rubel

ODIs: Mash, Nazmul, Rasel, Shafiul

T20s: Mash, Nazmul, Rasel, Shafiul/Rubel (rotation)

Reserve: Sajidul Islam, Dollar Mahmud, Mahbubul Alam, Shuvashish Roy, Robiul Islam (only called up when any of the pacers above are injured)

This is how he should use our pacers from now on.
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  #18  
Old January 25, 2010, 03:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tigers_eye
Dear offstump,
You think all these bowlers improvements have nothing to with the current bowling coach? All I see is criticism of Champaka and no credit given for anything.
lolz, how long has champaka worked with shafiul?

and shahadat is back to where he was before champaka...so yes champaka destroyed and then improved him back for a net gain of zero.

rubel has been all potential so far, and any successes he's had is due to that and not any type of refinement you'd expect from a coach.

i could be wrong - i doubt it - but until i see the bowlers stand up for champaka like shakib, rahim, riyad have for Siddons' batting pointers, i will continue to ask for his head.

having rajib in the wilderness for 15 months, when our team goes 6 month stretches without a test match is unforgiveable.

even more unforgiveable than ash being the 2nd highest score in the first innings.
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  #19  
Old January 25, 2010, 03:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ganesh
It is one thing to *look* hostile. Quite another to actually get wickets. Looking impressive is not quite enough, if you cannot get wickets. A 200 run lead at the end of day 2 and with half the side yet to bat is a very very difficult position to be in. Opening bowlers need to do a lot more with the new ball. Fast Bowlers have a distinct advantage with the new ball and in the early morning. Letting opponent openers score a (near)100 run partnership against red cherry just does not cut. India has had this problem for long. Many young bowlers look very promising. Finally they finish up with average of 35 in 2 years and you never about them again nor do you want to hear about them again.
Exactly what I was thinking, byte for byte.
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Old January 25, 2010, 03:46 PM
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Even Sreeram Veera is impressed with the pace attack...while we are displeased with anything less than Wasim and Waqar:

Quote:
The image of the day was of Rahul Dravid going down like he was shot. Dravid ducked under the Shahadat Hossain bouncer, perhaps anticipating that it would bounce more than it did, but he went straight into it and left the field soon after, clutching his jaw.

"It was very much part of the plan," Shahadat said. "Indian players, particularly Rahul Dravid and Virender Sehwag leave the bouncers well but are not very comfortable in playing it."

What stood out was the fact that the bouncer was not the result of an impulsive reaction from a fast bowler but part of a well-orchestrated plan. It could well have worked had the catches been taken and if Rubel Hossain's left foot hadn't landed a few inches beyond the crease. As it transpired, Sachin Tendulkar and Dravid battled through the tough times to put India in firm control of the game and barring a minor miracle, they should win this game. However, the day's play was fascinating to watch for the careful thought that went behind the attack.

Not every day does a bowler almost knock out Dravid with a bouncer and Shahadat was understandably thrilled with the feat, if not the effect. "Dravid is such a great batsman. To hit his helmet with a bouncer and make him fall on the wicket, I have to admit it felt good. I have hit batsmen before but this is the first time that a batsman has had to go back [after discontinuing batting]," Shahadat, who was unaware at that moment of Dravid's hospitalisation, said.

His reaction was understandable but what was really praiseworthy was that none of the bowlers overdid the bouncer attack. Not a single pull shot was played by an Indian batsman. Perhaps, it was because of the pitch. "It's a two-paced wicket, the bounce is unpredictable, one ball is taking off, and other is not," Sachin Tendulkar said. "It's not an easy track to bat on. They bowled well. They had a specific plan and stuck to it.

The plan was to make the batsmen play the bouncers. For that, they had to direct it well and try to bowl it at the body. It was Shahadat who started it all with a nagging bouncer that cramped Sehwag, forcing a hurried prod to the keeper. Then, Shafiul Islam went round the stumps and fired a short one at Gautam Gambhir's body to claim the second victim.

This is where it got interesting. Dravid was in with Tendulkar and one wondered whether their reputations will force Bangladesh to shelve the short ones, but they stuck to the plan. Dravid was stunned by a wonderfully accurate bouncer from Rubel and Junaid Siddique even took a sharp catch, diving low to his right at slip, but unfortunately it was a no-ball. It took a moment for the fielders and even for Dravid to realise that he had been let off.

And they nearly had Tendulkar. Twice. He was on 53 when he didn't connect properly with an intended uppercut against a lifter outside off, from who else but Shahadat, but Raqibul Hasan, who had already dropped Tendulkar on 27, couldn't hold on to a difficult chance despite a desperate dive to his left at gully.

It was that kind of a day. Bangladesh did everything that was possible to create chances but it just wasn't to be. When Tendulkar was later asked whether the bouncer attack surprised India, one could sense it hurt his pride as he retorted, "It [the bouncers] doesn't mean much. The scoreboard reads something different."

That may be so but it is a significant moment in Bangladesh's cricket history. It was the first time that a Bangladeshi fast bowler has made a batsman of Dravid's stature retire hurt. Both Mashrafe Mortaza and Shahadat have hit top batsmen before - Shahadat pinged Ponting in a Test in 2006 - but not forced them to discontinue the innings, leave alone putting them in hospital.

To understand the significance, you have to place it in the wider context. It was a coming-of-age moment for Indian cricket and its fans when Kapil Dev's first Test bouncer screamed past a helmet-less Sadiq Mohammad in Faisalabad in 1978. Sunil Gavaskar later wrote, "The normally unflappable and quiet Syed Kirmani clapped with his gloves and screamed 'Shabhash! Aur ek! (one more)'. To those of us in the Indian batting line-up who had only got used to facing a bombardment of short-pitched deliveries, with only a pea-shooter to return the fire, the sight of an opposing batsman asking for a protective helmet and then getting hit on it, was not only one for sore eyes, but also for cracked fingers and the badly bruised chests and thighs, that we had suffered over the years." Previously fast bowlers were used exclusively to take the shine of the ball, before the spinners could come into play; everything changed after Kapil's entry.

Shahadat's felling of Dravid isn't quite as seminal as that Kapil bouncer, as both Mortaza and Shahadat have hit batsmen before but it will become a part of folklore in coming years and "I was there" stories will be told by people recounting the instance.
tendulkar's responses were most interesting:

"they had a plan" and "bouncers don't mean anything, its the scorecard" was obviously a defense reaction to being LUCKY en route to century 45.

if anything its our fielding that should be scrutinized not the bouncers.

and perhaps this strategizing is the work of champaka, if so, then kudos to him, and i take back what i've said against him. but only if...
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  #21  
Old January 25, 2010, 03:52 PM
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I like Shahadat's attitude. I too like the sound the ball makes when it hits the helmet. Not the aftermath, just that moment when ball kisses helmet.
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Old January 25, 2010, 03:53 PM
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Another nice piece from Mr. Veera.

I have a lot of hope in this trio. I have always said, Rubel will be a key guy for us eventually. I am happy that the team has kept him even when he had a few difficult games and sessions before. He has to offer than not many in BD can. We must let him play, grow and get stronger along with Shafi and Rajib.
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  #23  
Old January 25, 2010, 04:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beamer
...We must let him play, grow and get stronger along with Shafi and Rajib.
Unless we have another alrounder like Shakib, all three pacers can't play together against England. We have to have two decent spinners. Mahmudullah or Naeem has to have more overs or we would need Enam Jr.

Shafi, Rubel, Shahadat etc. English face these types of bowlers in their alley. We have to win one of the two tests. There is no other alternatives. Only spinners can create havoc in no-Flintoff lineup. Kal Purush bhai is still suseptable to spin. Collingwood'er din shesh. Cook is not a chef. Swann'rey bash diya shesh koire feltey hobay.
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Old January 25, 2010, 04:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tigers_eye
Unless we have another alrounder like Shakib, all three pacers can't play together against England. We have to have two decent spinners. Mahmudullah or Naeem has to have more overs or we would need Enam Jr.

Shafi, Rubel, Shahadat etc. English face these types of bowlers in their alley. We have to win one of the two tests. There is no other alternatives. Only spinners can create havoc in no-Flintoff lineup. Kal Purush bhai is still suseptable to spin. Collingwood'er din shesh. Cook is not a chef. Swann'rey bash diya shesh koire feltey hobay.
I agree. Against England, two pacers along with Shakib, Naeem, Mahmudullah and Enam. Kalpurush bhai rei ami shob cheye beshi dorai, so orey eishob mowa pacer re diya ball koray labh nai.
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Old January 25, 2010, 06:30 PM
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naeem and riyad should be played as batsmen who are part timers in tests, shakib atm is a bowling allrounder in test cricket, this leaves space to have 3 pacers plus an extra spinner as long as mushy retains the gloves. but i'd definitely be thinking of sajidul and subashis for NZ and england. i agree that shahadat, shafi and rubel have potential, but at the same time they need to learn how to take wickets at this level, we can't have shahadat run through a team in one match and do nothing for the next year and we can't have shafi and rubel taking only 1 or 2 wickets every match. the pacers may have potential but if they don't perform then we need to look at other options e.g. sajidul, subashis, maybe even bring talha back.
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