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  #1  
Old January 25, 2010, 06:16 PM
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Default Rape victim in Bangladesh gets 101 lashes- is this true?

http://www.thedailystar.net/newDesig...php?nid=123298
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  #2  
Old January 25, 2010, 06:31 PM
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Unfortunately, I don't see any reason why it wouldn't be true. Similar stories of rapists walking away and roaming free are reported too often.
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  #3  
Old January 25, 2010, 07:39 PM
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Sad.
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  #4  
Old January 25, 2010, 07:49 PM
Zunaid Zunaid is offline
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I think this merits more outrage than the Lotus Kamal episode? Where's the rage?
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Old January 25, 2010, 08:28 PM
BD-Shardul BD-Shardul is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zunaid
I think this merits more outrage than the Lotus Kamal episode? Where's the rage?
Well Doc, discussed this issue before here in BC.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BD-Shardul
Adding to the dowry problem, now-days lashing women in rural areas have been on rise alarmingly; for those who read Prothom-Alo should know it. I can't express how my blood boils when I read a woman lashed in a grammo shalish based on the fatowa of a katmollah. Their lack of knowledge on Islam is one of the factor, but the factor that contributes in overlooking the true teachings of Islam is our society's tendency to project one's crime on another shoulder. In our society, often there has to be a scapegoat of an incident like rape or extra-marital affair, and the shalish easily exploits the weakness of women and takes revenge.

Apnader karo kase ti bonduk achey? Thakle amake ekta den. I want to kill those beasts with my hand and free my country from all those evils.
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  #6  
Old January 25, 2010, 08:33 PM
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Thanks Shardul.

Any ideas how we c an effect some changes - both short term and long term?
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  #7  
Old January 25, 2010, 09:12 PM
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WE should simply eradicate those savages from any society that tortures women and on top of that further tortures a rape vicitm, simply by hanging them(the abusers)....It will also help reduce the unwanted population a bit as well.....Nonetheless, I am dissapointed at our Prime Minister Shaikh Hasina and her administration for not instantly bringing those culprits to justice when she, our national cheif herself is a woman.

Burn those evil bastards(the rapists and the ones who torture the vicitms and the weaks) burn!
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  #8  
Old January 25, 2010, 09:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zunaid
Thanks Shardul.

Any ideas how we c an effect some changes - both short term and long term?
Let me instigate something here, Doc. When I think of the people that were the culprits, the powermongers, the untouchables, the more I think of Lota Kamal. His face, that picture, the rape of our cricket, come more and more to mind. Same mentality work behind both incidents. Both are social diseases, needing cure by means of flogging.
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  #9  
Old January 25, 2010, 09:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billah
Let me instigate something here, Doc. When I think of the people that were the culprits, the powermongers, the untouchables, the more I think of Lota Kamal. His face, that picture, the rape of our cricket, come more and more to mind. Same mentality work behind both incidents. Both are social diseases, needing cure by means of flogging.
Absolutely spot on Billah bhai!
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  #10  
Old January 25, 2010, 09:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zunaid
I think this merits more outrage than the Lotus Kamal episode? Where's the rage?
Absolutely. Did my part by voicing out in their comments section. I urge every BC member who is appalled by this to do the same.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zunaid
Thanks Shardul.

Any ideas how we c an effect some changes - both short term and long term?
If all the 100 odd regular members express their rage to dailystar -published or unpublished- surely that would cause a stir and have a snowball effect.
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  #11  
Old January 25, 2010, 09:45 PM
Zunaid Zunaid is offline
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Call the powers that be - use your connections to get someone off their *** and arrest the members of the shalish committee.

Even in Pakistan the activist judiciary is sitting up taking action:

CJ takes Suo Motu notice of lashing of young girl in Swat
'Pakistan Times' Staff Report

ISLAMABAD: Chief Justice of Pakistan Iftikhar Muhammad Chaudhry on Friday took a suo motu notice of the incident of lashing of a young girl publicly at Kabal area of Swat district.

http://pakistantimes.net/2009/04/07/top4.htm
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  #12  
Old January 25, 2010, 11:38 PM
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I still cant forget, and cant help but remember once or twice every month, the garment worker girl got raped, then got cut her neck and left in the bush in Jahangir Nagar University, Shavar. That poor [dont know proper word to express] girl remained alive there for 3 days there, and than taken to hospital only to die few days later. But she managed to speak out the names of criminals and strongly asked for justice as the media report said.

Since then I am eagerly waiting to see the criminals get caught and taken to guillotine, but for years by now as its seems police or security people including media completely forgot about this girl just like many thousands are. I wonder why our media does not follow such cases until the criminal get caught. And why not some rich people hire some lawyers to form some kind of legal organization to pick up such cases and fight for those helpless victims, we may need more these kinds of private law/justice organization.
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Old January 26, 2010, 02:20 AM
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Well Poor Fan Bhai, during the 1st regime of AL, there was one infamous student from Jahangir Nagar University who raped 100 girls and then even openly distributed misti to celebrate the century. No action could be taken against him because he was someone related with Chatro-league.

As for those Shalish we are talking about here, if you go and investigate, you will find Union Parishad member or even the Chairman in them.

I don't know what could be the solution. What I can't fathom is how people can be so barbaric on someone who didn't commit the crime.
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  #14  
Old January 26, 2010, 09:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BD-Shardul
As for those Shalish we are talking about here, if you go and investigate, you will find Union Parishad member or even the Chairman in them.

I don't know what could be the solution. What I can't fathom is how people can be so barbaric on someone who didn't commit the crime.
I think you were right in your original post Shardul bhai. Some vigilante action may be warranted.

My dad regularly writes letters/articles to the DS, maybe I could ask him to write one on this instead of about politics for a change.
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Old January 26, 2010, 10:59 AM
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really sad.

unity and not chamchami would solve many things including corruption of Police. May be then law enforcement might bring justice to the commoners.
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Old January 26, 2010, 11:18 AM
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Disgusting. What is Madam Hasina doing? Is instilling more and more women into the Parliament and her Cabinet doing anything for the ordinary girl/woman in Bangladesh?
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  #17  
Old January 26, 2010, 12:21 PM
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I do know what to say really sad and painful
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  #18  
Old January 26, 2010, 02:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Equinox
Disgusting. What is Madam Hasina doing? Is instilling more and more women into the Parliament and her Cabinet doing anything for the ordinary girl/woman in Bangladesh?
dont expect anything from her. She once expressly agreed with these Fatwabaz to validitate fatwa in bangladesh.

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  #19  
Old January 26, 2010, 04:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zunaid
Any ideas how we c an effect some changes - both short term and long term?
The long term cure remains, as always, a combination of education and improved quality of life.

A potential short term remedy requires several courses of action in tandem:
  • Television and radio programmes on religion in which some learned religious figures point out why justice should be in the hands of the court magistrates and not village elders.

  • Imams in village mosques preaching the evils of extra-judicial trials and sentencing by village elders (preferably mixed in with the threat of eternal hellfire for those who punish the innocent). I thought we now had some organized body for certifying imams; take advantage of that.

  • A well-publicized legal trial of the village elders involved (given that we already have the relevant laws in the book), covered heavily in the media, in which the defendants are found guilty and meted out exemplary punishment as their sentence, for instance the very same 101 lashes each. Essentially, you want harsh examples that will serve to intimidate and deter any other village council from even thinking about trying something similar again.

Obviously, you want to try the rapist too. But I think the main focus should be on discouraging this brand of extra-judicial vigilantism against the victim.
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Old January 26, 2010, 04:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mona
I think you were right in your original post Shardul bhai. Some vigilante action may be warranted.
Mona,

The issue here is that we would like to curb what is essentially a version of vigilantism on the part of the village elders; I would prefer that being done under the purview of our legal system (and no, I am not naive about how likely that is), instead of resorting to vigilantism once again. While the type of vigilantism espoused by you in this thread is not inherently wrong, I think we Bengalis/Bangladeshis are far too easily easily roused and led astray, and I would be more inclined to have us depend on our legal system instead.

That said, I think we are perfectly justified in keeping this in the forefront of the media by say, incessantly dicussing this in op-eds and letter columns, making it an albatross around the neck of the current government, until they are forced to act.
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  #21  
Old January 26, 2010, 04:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shaad
A well-publicized legal trial of the village elders involved (given that we already have the relevant laws in the book), covered heavily in the media, in which the defendants are found guilty and meted out exemplary punishment as their sentence, for instance the very same 101 lashes each. Essentially, you want harsh examples that will serve to intimidate and deter any other village council from even thinking about trying something similar again.
This has to be the next immediate step. This has to be very well publicized. I urge everyone to call, write, pressure in the way each of us can.
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Old January 26, 2010, 05:12 PM
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My condolences to the girl and family (and so many others like them).

The worse thing is people in the rural area don't even know about the true Islamic teachings and get spoonfed by whatever the ''Imams'' of their area teach them coz they don't see the reason why the local Imams wouldn't know the true teachings and relevant rules and regulations of different matters. Thus they don't feel the need acquire knowledge themselves. As Shaad bhai pointed out in one of his points, there has to be ways of making the general people in the villages more aware about the teachings and rulings, overall the true message. At least then even if the authority doesn't react, at least the general people would something to say it (though that's not to undermine to importance of an acting authority who we need to find ways to make awake).
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  #23  
Old January 26, 2010, 05:26 PM
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I think the fundamental cause to the problem need to be addressed first. It is essential to understand what the causes of rape that occur are in a particular society. Generally speaking, in western society rape occurs because of sexual deprivation, nudity and mental disorder of individuals. In developing country, like us, may be sexual deprivation is the main cause as well as lack of law and order.
I appreciate that many suggested stronger law enforcement; however, I have a serious doubt if this will make any big impact in a society full of corruption in every corner.
We may need some kind of encouragement for people to get married in the early adulthood and that has to be backed up by social and financial security. The sad thing is that we are concerned after hearing a few rape incidents; but the reality is that there are so many incidents which are unaccounted.
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Old January 26, 2010, 06:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peace
I think the fundamental cause to the problem need to be addressed first. It is essential to understand what the causes of rape that occur are in a particular society. Generally speaking, in western society rape occurs because of sexual deprivation, nudity and mental disorder of individuals. In developing country, like us, may be sexual deprivation is the main cause as well as lack of law and order.
I appreciate that many suggested stronger law enforcement; however, I have a serious doubt if this will make any big impact in a society full of corruption in every corner.
We may need some kind of encouragement for people to get married in the early adulthood and that has to be backed up by social and financial security. The sad thing is that we are concerned after hearing a few rape incidents; but the reality is that there are so many incidents which are unaccounted.
Dear Peace,

I don't know if you've spent any extended length of time in the rural regions of Bangladesh. But I can tell you, from (unintentional) personal observation of bobbing figures in the rice paddies, that at least in the early and mid '80s in Barisal, there didn't seem to be that much sexual deprivation among young people in the villages. My take on it is that sexual repression and thus deprivation is more common among the urban middle class in Bangladesh.

That said, I don't think most of us responding in this thread are suddenly waking up to incidents of rape occurring in Bangladesh. We know such barbarous acts, heinous as they are, do occur. And, as I assume you well know, rape cases remain difficult to prosecute, even in the west. What we find even more horrendous and shocking about the incident being discussed here is that the rape victim in question was then "tried" by the village "salish" and "sentenced" to 101 lashes. The sheer level of hypocrisy, misogyny, and evil exhibited here is what has us concerned. The "fundamental cause" here, if any, is that the village elders, drunk on their own power, believed themselves above the law. It is imperative to disabuse them and others of such a notion.

I can only reiterate what Zunaid and others have already said: use the resources available to you (writing to the dailies, contacting relatives or acquaintances with influence, etc.) to both keep this in the public view and pressure our administration to act.
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  #25  
Old January 26, 2010, 11:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shaad
The long term cure remains, as always, a combination of education and improved quality of life.

A potential short term remedy requires several courses of action in tandem:
  • Television and radio programmes on religion in which some learned religious figures point out why justice should be in the hands of the court magistrates and not village elders.
  • Imams in village mosques preaching the evils of extra-judicial trials and sentencing by village elders (preferably mixed in with the threat of eternal hellfire for those who punish the innocent). I thought we now had some organized body for certifying imams; take advantage of that.
  • A well-publicized legal trial of the village elders involved (given that we already have the relevant laws in the book), covered heavily in the media, in which the defendants are found guilty and meted out exemplary punishment as their sentence, for instance the very same 101 lashes each. Essentially, you want harsh examples that will serve to intimidate and deter any other village council from even thinking about trying something similar again.

Obviously, you want to try the rapist too. But I think the main focus should be on discouraging this brand of extra-judicial vigilantism against the victim.
These are all good suggestions but I would say that they are addressing the symptom and not the root. What exists in Bangladesh is a deep rooted misogyny that is based on men (and in some cases women) feeling that their power/influence over a certain segment of the population waning. Let me give you a couple of examples that I saw just yesterday:

i. While driving to a wedding, my (male) driver saw a female driver ahead of him in the lane. He sneered and said that women drivers are the worst kind and they should just stay home instead of being in the roads. What struck me was not just the contents of his comments (I know plenty of other people who think women suck at driving), but the venom in his voice when he said that. There was a certain degree of menace, however hidden, that I could feel when he said those words.

ii. At the wedding, my mother spotted a group of smokers huddled outside in the corner sharing a smoke. Amongst them was a young lady smoking. Instantly, my mother made a comment as to how that girl was "bad" and if something untoward she would have only herself to blame. Of course, she had nothing to say about the guys.

iii. My friend is a garment factory owner. He is western educated, married and has one lovely daughter. A large chunk of his profits every month come simply from the fact that his labour force consists entirely of young women who work 14 hour shifts with now weekends, no benefits and earns 4000 taka a month. When they get pregnant, he instantly fires them saying they shouldn't have gotten pregnant in the first place. He then reads the newspaper and comments how sad it is that violence against women is on the rise in Bangladesh.

These are all examples that I see around me every day. Some would say that they're really nothing, that I just read into things too much. I would beg to differ. What strikes me is that in almost all these cases, women are considered second class citizens. And when a half of your population is not considered equal as the other half, a certain degree of impunity sets in, where the privileged half think they can get away doing anything to the other half, things get messy.

Whats even worse is that women start internalizing the crap that they are indeed inferior to men and "deserve" to be treated in such a filthy way (almost all the village women I work with routinely get beaten up by their husbands and say that its the "right" of their husbands to beat them) and the consequence is that there's really no one to stand up for them.

So what's the best way to fight misogyny? Education, more presence of women in public decision making processes, economic empowerment of women, etc are all great ways, and there is no one silver bullet of course but a barrage of them. But somewhere down the line, I think we're sometimes targeting the wrong people. There's so much education, opportunities, and incentives given to women, and this is all great, but it's not the women who have to change but the men.
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