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  #26  
Old February 5, 2010, 04:58 PM
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reyme reyme is offline
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Hopefully we will find a replacement, let it be short or long term within a year. For now I can think of Zunaed in place of Ash at #3 in Test and Mushfiiq in ODI.
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  #27  
Old February 5, 2010, 06:00 PM
wiseshah wiseshah is offline
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R.I. P to sir ashraful matin

thanks. you have given us enough.
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  #28  
Old February 5, 2010, 06:19 PM
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Here is our ODI batting stats since October 2008, since ICL exodus -

* Stats against Zim and WI are exclued.

Mohammad Ashraful 12 12 1 351 75 31.90 480 73.12 0 3 0 34 129.25
Tamim Iqbal 12 12 0 339 62 28.25 379 89.44 0 2 1 54 328.25
Shakib Al Hasan 12 12 2 326 92* 32.60 428 76.16 0 3 1 28 327.17
Mahmudullah 9 7 3 250 64* 62.50 276 90.57 0 2 0 21 435.71
Imrul Kayes 8 8 0 204 70 25.50 305 66.88 0 1 0 18 425.50
Naeem Islam 12 11 6 198 46* 39.60 305 64.91 0 0 1 16 618.00
Junaid Siddique 7 7 0 168 85 24.00 307 54.72 0 1 1 16 024.00
Raqibul Hasan 9 9 1 162 43* 20.25 320 50.62 0 0 2 7 118.00
Mushfiqur Rahim 12 12 0 152 35 12.66 283 53.71 0 0 0 10 312.67

I know it's a very disturbing fact, but Ashraful is still not the weakest link in the team!
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  #29  
Old February 5, 2010, 06:35 PM
FagunerAgun FagunerAgun is offline
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The way Ash batted last night is miserable.
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  #30  
Old February 5, 2010, 07:20 PM
pervez mia pervez mia is offline
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Eshan, it's well and good to show stats since 2008 (12 matches). The fact is the guy has had more than 150 matches to prove his worth in international cricket and he averages a paltry 23.83. That average wouldn't be good enough to get him a game batting at number 8 for most other teams in the world. Nevertheless, the point I am trying to make is that his average and strike rate is dwindling while most of the other guys are improving... Everytime BD plays nowadays and gets decent start, I keep thinking please don't lose a wicket because the chances are ash will come in and eat up 25-30 balls get 10 runs and than throw his wicket away.... that's not the typical traits of a number 3. The number 3 should be the backbone of the batting order and Ash definitely is not that, nor is he capable. Maybe he can be given a chance down the order, but I really don't think he is good enough for international cricket anymore because he has not developed as a player over the last 10 years and the stats prove it.

As for going forward, we need to promote guys like mahmudullah... for me Mahmudullah should be our new number 3, aftab to come back to number 4, nafees at 5, shakib at 6 and mushfique at 7, REALLY REALLY need mashrafe back at 8 for his hitting at the death and then rest of the bowlers...

But my point is ASH no longer good enough and has to go and either work on his game or hang up his boots... Time to make the hard decision...
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  #31  
Old February 5, 2010, 08:41 PM
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al Furqaan al Furqaan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eshen
Here is our ODI batting stats since October 2008, since ICL exodus -

* Stats against Zim and WI are exclued.

Mohammad Ashraful 12 12 1 351 75 31.90 480 73.12 0 3 0 34 129.25
Tamim Iqbal 12 12 0 339 62 28.25 379 89.44 0 2 1 54 328.25
Shakib Al Hasan 12 12 2 326 92* 32.60 428 76.16 0 3 1 28 327.17
Mahmudullah 9 7 3 250 64* 62.50 276 90.57 0 2 0 21 435.71
Imrul Kayes 8 8 0 204 70 25.50 305 66.88 0 1 0 18 425.50
Naeem Islam 12 11 6 198 46* 39.60 305 64.91 0 0 1 16 618.00
Junaid Siddique 7 7 0 168 85 24.00 307 54.72 0 1 1 16 024.00
Raqibul Hasan 9 9 1 162 43* 20.25 320 50.62 0 0 2 7 118.00
Mushfiqur Rahim 12 12 0 152 35 12.66 283 53.71 0 0 0 10 312.67

I know it's a very disturbing fact, but Ashraful is still not the weakest link in the team!
2nd strongest in terms of runs per innings...how is this possible??? even i don't understand...

at any rate, i have started to doubt and call for ash's axing as well...but i know that one match isn't everything, so i'm willing to give him 5 more in this series and against England. if he can average 25-30, he stays...if not...time for him to get a move on (i'm ignoring his test performance cuz he wills core 20 runs tops in teh 2 innings against NZ).
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  #32  
Old February 5, 2010, 08:58 PM
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Eshen Eshen is offline
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I am as irritated by Ashraful's inconsistency as anyone else in this board, but this is where the argument against him does not hold water -
Quote:
Originally Posted by pervez mia
Nevertheless, the point I am trying to make is that his average and strike rate is dwindling while most of the other guys are improving...
Ashraful definitely shown improvement in last couple of years. Instead of one substantial innings per year, now we are seeing one substantial innings every other series. He is currently as consistent or inconsistent as Tamim or Shakib is. As much I want to believe that younger guys are better than he is, facts don't back that assumption. Only dramatic improvement we currently seeing in the team is Mahmudullah, but there is no guarantee that Mahmudullah won't fade away after making a big splash like many other BD batsmen did.

His SR gone down, but that's understandable as management does not want him to play in his boom boom style anymore.
Quote:
Everytime BD plays nowadays and gets decent start, I keep thinking please don't lose a wicket because the chances are ash will come in and eat up 25-30 balls get 10 runs and than throw his wicket away....
He is as guilty of throwing away his wicket and spoil the match for us as any other batsman in the team (again, including Tamim and Shakib).t

Quote:
As for going forward, we need to promote guys like mahmudullah... for me Mahmudullah should be our new number 3, aftab to come back to number 4, nafees at 5, shakib at 6 and mushfique at 7, REALLY REALLY need mashrafe back at 8 for his hitting at the death and then rest of the bowlers...
No disrespect to your gut feelings, but there is no logical evidence that Mahmudullah can do better as a #3. Almost at all levels of cricket, he bats at #5 or later. Forcing him to bat from a position he has no experience with may only destroy his career.

As for SN and Aftab, they are tried and tested failures in international cricket. Ashraful does not look anything as hopeless as those two look now (I do hope that they show some maturity in near future).
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  #33  
Old February 5, 2010, 09:01 PM
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Signed. Ash is not serious enough. We only won about < 5% of the matches with him against G8 team. You can argue we have won those matches BECAUSE of Ash, but you cannot argue BECAUSE of Ash we can win matches.
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  #34  
Old February 5, 2010, 09:19 PM
wiseshah wiseshah is offline
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why not to use him in lower order, he suited their best. plus he can improve his average if he is lucky.
when he gets out in top order and position like one down--it created tremendous pressure for the team. one down position can be taken by

aftab, mushfiq, mahmudullah, rokibul (if he can perform)

ash and sakib should bat before shahadat
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  #35  
Old February 5, 2010, 09:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZeeshanM
Signed. Ash is not serious enough. We only won about < 5% of the matches with him against G8 team. You can argue we have won those matches BECAUSE of Ash, but you cannot argue BECAUSE of Ash we can win matches.
We can use same argument against Tamim, Shakib, Mashrafe, or anyone else in the team. Should we throw them all out?
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  #36  
Old February 6, 2010, 12:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tigers_eye
Can anyone tell me how much a Bangla Movie Ticket cost in Dhaka cinema hall these days? Say a 6 or 9 o'clock show?
I will join you, Friday after Jumma?
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  #37  
Old February 6, 2010, 03:46 AM
dolcevita dolcevita is offline
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Mahmullah Must bat at NUMBER 3
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  #38  
Old February 6, 2010, 08:15 AM
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BANFAN BANFAN is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tigers_eye
HHS, You only have one agenda as it may seem. Jamie Siddons!!!

He is with us till 2011. You want to take a break and come back after 2011.

When the whole world says Ashraful needs a break, you seem to agree with Jamie Siddons that he needs to stay in the team. What an irony!!!
TE, I didn't utter the name of JS to be the problem. Well he should be part of the problem as he is the head coach. He has a responsibility for the entire team. But he isn't alone I guess.

From the thread head & the opening post, It looks like Ash is the only hinderance for the performance of the team. :-( Yes, he is failing to perform and so is the rest of the team. Under this situation if you are pointing fingure to one individual player of the team to be the main problem, I think that should be the example of pursuing individual agenda. We all know that won't solve the problem of the entire team, rathar increase the headache of nurturing another new comer.

So, no I don't have to have an anti JS agenda, if the entire team is performing so poor, he should be part of the problem, along with other guys/bodies responsible for the entire team.

Lets not get bogged down with one individual player, it's the entire team performing poor. That's the only message I wanted to give. Unfortunately I'm too busy to make it to BC for longer time, so I just posted on the threads trying to focuss on the current problem of the team. So don't get the wrong msg please. Eshen Bhai has made some good points backed by stats, I have the same opinion.

On the point of agreeing with JS : I certainly agree with JS on Ash but with a different perspective, JS knows that he is not capable of lifting the team by his own coaching merit. JS also knows if anyone can save his arse with some miraculous performances, that's Ash. "Every now & then, Miracle still happens" [Actual Reason Why JS needs Ash]

And as far as coming back after his contract suggestion I think the Anti Ash agenda holders will have to take a decade long break in that sense.

Good to hear from you anyway. Will be back to BC soon with some more time Insha Allah, but don't know when...
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  #39  
Old February 6, 2010, 04:00 PM
M.H.Rubel M.H.Rubel is offline
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In ODI Batting at #3 is a big concern for us. Currently Ash is batting at #3 where his average is 22 which is pretty poor.Where as Aftab has an average of 26 in #3,this is poor as well.But it is pretty clear that Aftab is better suited than ash at #3.Ash is never ever a material for #3.So in ODI he should bat in middle order probably at #6.So i think unless we find a better option Aftab should play at #3.So my batting order should be
1.TIK
2.Imrul
3.Aftab/SN
4.Riyad
5.SAH
6.Ash/Rock/SN.
We need to remember that in short version Ash is not the weakest link in our team.He is a middle order batsman his record is better there so he should bat in middle order.
But in case of test I dont think that he is no more a test material.

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  #40  
Old February 6, 2010, 04:00 PM
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Eshen Eshen is offline
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Anyway, thanks to parvez mia for opening the first thread on Ashraful during NZ tour. I predicted in MMW thread that there will be at least half a dozen threads on Ashraful during the tour. Someone else needs to open 5 more threads. Come on people, don't let me down now
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  #41  
Old February 6, 2010, 05:53 PM
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reyme reyme is offline
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I have a 10 year old Ferrari. Gave me few great rides, but broke my wallet so many times by breaking down. I also have a brand new Honda. I decided to ride Ferrari today and ended up with an accident. People came along burnt my Ferrari down to ashes. I left the spot witout a scratch on my body.
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  #42  
Old February 6, 2010, 07:36 PM
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AsifTheManRahman AsifTheManRahman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reyme
I have a 10 year old Ferrari. Gave me few great rides, but broke my wallet so many times by breaking down. I also have a brand new Honda. I decided to ride Ferrari today and ended up with an accident. People came along burnt my Ferrari down to ashes. I left the spot witout a scratch on my body.
LOL. I agree, driving a brand new but less glamorous car on lane #3 won't hurt us much; in fact, it could drive us to glory more often than we know.
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  #43  
Old February 6, 2010, 08:12 PM
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al Furqaan al Furqaan is offline
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but surprisingly ash has the 2nd best runs/innings average over teh past year and half...in light of teh facts that a) he was looking great in the tri series and b) he's historically one of our best in ENG/SA/NZ conditions in limited overs i'll keep him around. not sure if should continue at #3 or move to his usual spot of #4 since rock really hasn't been doing much of late.
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  #44  
Old February 6, 2010, 08:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reyme
I have a 10 year old Ferrari. Gave me few great rides, but broke my wallet so many times by breaking down. I also have a brand new Honda. I decided to ride Ferrari today and ended up with an accident. People came along burnt my Ferrari down to ashes. I left the spot witout a scratch on my body.
Is Ashraful even a Ferrari? More like a toyota with a jammed pedal.

Anyways, what makes this time any different than the last few times he's failed?
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  #45  
Old February 6, 2010, 09:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Akib
Is Ashraful even a Ferrari? More like a toyota with a jammed pedal.
I think he suffers from the delusion that he owns a broken Ferrari when all he really has is a Toyota with a jammed pedal.
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  #46  
Old February 6, 2010, 09:38 PM
Gowza Gowza is offline
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in ODIs they should move riyad and naeem up the order, bring in alok to bat at 7 playing as an allrounder. one of ash, raqibul or aftab can take the remaining batting spot.

e.g. 1 tamim 2 imrul 3 ash/aftab/rock 4 riyad 5 naeem 6 shakib 7 alok 8 mushy 9-11 pacers.

i suppose you could try one of riyad/naeem/mushy at the #3 spot and allow ash/aftab/rock to bat further down the order, but i would prefer to see naeem and riyad in the middle order before getting the #3 spot. for those who don't like mushy atm they could play mithun at #8, being more explosive than mushy would probably be benefical batting at 8 in one-dayers, otherwise play dhiman for the keeping skills.

ash should definitely go in tests, but it's hard to drop him in one-dayers, it might be worth trying him further down the order in one-dayers before giving him the boot.
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  #47  
Old February 6, 2010, 09:51 PM
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I don't mind Riyad and Nayeem coming in late in ODIs because they are great finishers and can give us what we need to capitalize on a decent start. Having said that, #'s 7 and 8 are too late for batsmen who are clearly better than most others in the XI. Riyad for example can be a good #5/#6, Nayeem a good #6/#7. Mushfiq is ideal for the #4 slot, which is where we're currently playing a grafter. He is useless coming down the order in ODIs and it isn't his fault - it's merely a case of the management not utilizing his skills optimally. Let him bat at #4, or even #3 if we're feeling adventurous, but whatever it is, let him grow into it because he certainly has the goods to play a long inning and at a decent pace too.

Imrul is alright, at least in ODIs, but really needs to convert those 20s and 30s, because otherwise he's no better than Aftab. Whatever the case, the batting order needs a revamp solely because things weren't done the right way in the first place.
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  #48  
Old February 6, 2010, 09:53 PM
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Now in Tests, I want to see Riyad and Nayeem come in earlier. Especially Nayeem, because the man can bat and bat damn well and must do so at #4.
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  #49  
Old February 6, 2010, 10:00 PM
Gowza Gowza is offline
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yes i understand it's a bit hard to move riyad and naeem because they are soo good at finishing but i would think they'd be more benefical a couple of spots higher. mushy i would say currently is a better option than raqibul, raqibul has a higher average but he just doesnt' seem to be improving, mushy nowadays is pretty good at keeping his strike rate above 70 in one-dayers and he's got the temperament to play a long innings and to play the anchor/grafter role.

i guess they could drop raqibul and play mushy in his spot and bring in mithun/alok to bat down at 8 to add some explosiveness to the lower order. mithun would mean mushy can focus on batting whereas if alok was to come in then mushy would keep the gloves.
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  #50  
Old February 6, 2010, 10:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by One World
I will join you, Friday after Jumma?
May be that is where we can find all our top order batsmen.
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