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  #1  
Old February 21, 2010, 11:15 PM
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al-Sagar al-Sagar is offline
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Default BD cricket in a critial stage: some important decisions (brave or rude) to make

2010......

after having 1 successful 2009 where we mostly played against Zimbabwe and understrength WI, we are now back playing with big boys. we have seen some individual successes, some good batting in ODI's posting big score, but bowlers could not capitalize. in tests some good sessions of cricket, taking a game into good match winning or match saving position but then surrendering or choking or playing the wrong strategy.

the most hot and controversial topic is our BATTING order. Tamim has done well. imrul has done a decent job. but the problem is no 3-5 .... the likes of ash, junaed, aftab rakibul, shahriar nafees have mostly been unsuccessful or rarely succesful. then stars our lower middle order. until the last test shakib's batting was lost who bats at 5 in ODI and 6 in tests. also we have seen our best performers playing at 6-7-8 in mahmudullah, mushfique and sometimes naeem who at 8 actually has almost nothing to offer.

so the coach and management are facing a big job in making some decisions which is very important and could be brave and rude. there are some big questions over our batting lineup (players who should be there and what place they should be batting ). lets see some situation.

1. keeping the current selection and order: well not a good option, why wait so long for a under performing and very inconsistent bunch of player to start performing. and why always rely on our no 6-7-8s to do the job. well mushfiq mahmudullahs centuries, or mushfi naeems oneday heroics in the end did not win us the game. they only restored some pride and gave us some competetion. so if we have our middle order performing than we could have been much more succesful in those games.

2. keeping the current selection but revising order: lets promote the 6-7-8s into 3-4-5s and then 3-4-5s go below. for example

tamim
imrul
junaed
shakib
mahmudullah
naeem
mushfiq
ashraful
shahadat
rubel
shafiul

could be a good solution. lets give the confident and in form players bat most of the time and let them get in early before a collapse and let them do the building job rather than repairing job. but we have seen lots of time in international that shifting batting actually did not work. but still its worth a try because it also works

but this wouldn't be a fare decision to me as we have some good players performing in the NCL who deserves a chance. so now lets consider two more situations.

3. new players in but no change in order: i think we should now bring in players like farhad, faisal, shuvo in the squad. drop ashraful aftab raqibul. don know what to do about zunaed. i feel e should have the same 1-2-3 in both tests and odi. here is an option

tamim
imrul
farhad
faisal
shakib
mushfiq
mahmudullah
naeem
shahadat
rubel
shafiul

4. new players and new order: but its actually time for change so lets try something new and brave. what about this. i still think BD should actually play the same team in both ODI and TEST.

option 1. (farhad and shuvo in,)

tamim
imrul/junaed (i want them to fight for their places, junaed no more at no 3)
farhad hossain (lets try this fellow here)
shakib (he started at no 4, and i think this is his best place in the order)
naeem (naeem b4 mamudullah coz he has played more in top order than mahmudullah in domestice level)
mahmudullah (from 8 to 6)
mushfiq
shuvo (2nd specialst spinner and decent batter at no 8)
shahadat
rubel
shafiul

i believe whatever the pitch is u can play 3 pacers and two spinners. plus if anyone goes wrong we have naeem and may be mahmudullah to come and chip in few overs. in a spinners paradise may be we drop one from the pace trio and bring in razzaque or enamul.

option 2 (faisal and shuvo in)

tamim
imrul/junaed
naeem/mushfiq (the big question could who at 3 who at 7)
shakib
faisal ( he comes in at no 5)
mahmudullah
mushfiq/naeem
shuvo
shahdat
shafiul
rubel.


well these debates will go on. the coach will have his say. the selectors will have their say. the fans they will always have lots of says. but i feel we must have some change before the england series. i also had a thread before NZ series saying we need a big change but did not happen. and the result was same. electrifying opening, middle order collapse, pride rescued by late middle order. kind of bored seeing this again and again.

its time to change. lets make some brave decisions and see what happens. i know nothing bad will happen.
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  #2  
Old February 21, 2010, 11:23 PM
wiseshah wiseshah is offline
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i like option 4

i think shahadat and rubel is too expensive, can we replace with some one else, atleast one of them?
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  #3  
Old February 22, 2010, 12:06 AM
Gowza Gowza is offline
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personally i'd be doing something like this:

1 tamim
2 imrul (i'm not convinced with him but there's no one else atm)
3 farhad
4 riyad
5 mushy
6 naeem
7 shakib (he's already captain and strike spinner, plus naeem is a batsman in tests so should be above shakib)
8 shuvo
9 shafiul
10 rubel
11 robin/sajidul/subashis (mash if he's fit and still wants to play tests)

i think we should just do a reshuffle, the lower order are scoring runs and deserve chances higher up the order, we know they can score international runs whereas with new players we don't know if they can score international runs.

i think promoting any of shakib/mushy/riyad to no.3 at this point is asking too much, let's see if they can do what they do in the lower order in the middle order then we can talk about putting one of them in the #3 spot. shakib has a lot of his plate as captain and frontline spinner, so maybe we should let him play as a spinning allrounder rather than a genuine allrounder in test matches. if mushy has the gloves it's a bit rough putting him in the top 4, he can maybe play at 4 but definitely not higher if he's going to keep the gloves.

replace shahadat because he just isn't offering much atm, not much pace, not much swing and his line and length isn't exactly terrific. i think it's time we gave one of robin/sajidul/subashis a decent run, of course a fit mash gets in automatically.

you could bring in a specialist keeper, in which case you'd probably leave out naeem and bring in dhiman.

i think the coaches/management/selection should be working toward a team like this:

1 tamim
2 whoever is the next best opener after tamim
3 mushy
4 riyad
5 naeem
6 shakib
7 keeper (dhiman/mithun/anamul etc)
8 another spinner (shuvo/saqlain/shabbir/noor etc)
9-11 the 3 best pacers

for me this is where they should be trying to steer the test team for the future. mushy has to improve lot to remain as the keeper imo, so we should be trying to groom him as a #3 but first let's see him at 4/5. farhad/shuvagoto should be groomed as batsmen for the 3-6 spots. but they need to do it in steps, this means gradually moving mushy/riyad up the order and giving the new players like farhad/shuvagoto/sajidul/subashis proper grooming.

thoughts?
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  #4  
Old February 22, 2010, 12:26 AM
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Tigers_eye Tigers_eye is offline
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The Most important part of our game that can be beneficial if we focus hard is CATCHING. This would help in all format of the game.

1) Short term goal: Identify culprits and shield them from potential places where the balls may come.
2) Long term goal: Get a fielding coach, and practice these boys to the ground. Caught and bowled practice with a tennis ball hitting on a wall.

Weaklinks:
1) Shafiul

2) Mushi, lol. This one is very important to get the line up right.

Each catch drops costs us mountain of runs. Take Guptill's at 4. He went on to make 189. McIntosh's chaces still fresh in mind. Tendu got three lives enroute to TWO centuries. Mishra, Taylor, Zaheer khan all got lives. The bowlers did not do much damage but the pure batsmen took us to the sword.

So no matter what we do with the lineup, Ash in or Ash out, if we can get the players to hold on to the catches WINS will come with ease. Doesn't matter if the opponents are Australia or Ireland and/or we are playing Test or T20 matches.
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  #5  
Old February 22, 2010, 12:48 AM
wiseshah wiseshah is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tigers_eye
The Most important part of our game that can be beneficial if we focus hard is CATCHING. This would help in all format of the game.

1) Short term goal: Identify culprits and shield them from potential places where the balls may come.
2) Long term goal: Get a fielding coach, and practice these boys to the ground. Caught and bowled practice with a tennis ball hitting on a wall.

Weaklinks:
1) Shafiul

2) Mushi, lol. This one is very important to get the line up right.

Each catch drops costs us mountain of runs. Take Guptill's at 4. He went on to make 189. McIntosh's chaces still fresh in mind. Tendu got three lives enroute to TWO centuries. Mishra, Taylor, Zaheer khan all got lives. The bowlers did not do much damage but the pure batsmen took us to the sword.

So no matter what we do with the lineup, Ash in or Ash out, if we can get the players to hold on to the catches WINS will come with ease. Doesn't matter if the opponents are Australia or Ireland and/or we are playing Test or T20 matches.

r u serious? this guy is highest wkt taker in NZ overall. u think he is weaker than shahadat and rubel?
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  #6  
Old February 22, 2010, 08:05 AM
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Ananna Ananna is offline
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promotin Mahmudullah to 4 or 5 would be suicidal, IMO.
The current order is fine. We need to find better players in positions 3 thru 5.
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  #7  
Old February 22, 2010, 09:44 AM
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Tiger Manc Tiger Manc is offline
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Well one solution to the wicketkeeping problem could be to include Mithun Ali in the team at #8. Everyone else can go up by one in the order. Mithun is a hard hitting batsman who could take advantage of the powerplay. That would free up Mushy to play higher up the order and hopefully we would have a solid wicketkeeper as well. I wish we could do the same in tests as Mushy deserves to come in at #4 wish would give our batting some stability and hopefully Mushy can play a long innings without getting too tired. The only problem is that we don't have a top-class wicketkeeper who could give us 20-30 runs at #7
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  #8  
Old February 22, 2010, 09:56 AM
AshRules AshRules is offline
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Tiger-manc

do u think mushfiq is good enough to be a stand alone batsmen? His wicketkeeping has been poor no doubt, but his batting really hasnt been that great, but as an all-rounder he just about deserves to be in the team...but as a straight up batsmen, I dont think so.
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  #9  
Old February 22, 2010, 10:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wiseshah
r u serious? this guy is highest wkt taker in NZ overall. u think he is weaker than shahadat and rubel?
I am very serious. Did you even read my POST? You are better than this. OR you must not have watched any of his games.

He is the weakest catcher in the whole team. Yes, he hasn't have enough time in the cricket ground but that wouldn't hide the fact of his deficiency. Captain and coach must know this and put him in a place (fielding) where he only has to do ground work and not catch.
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  #10  
Old February 22, 2010, 10:18 AM
NKVD NKVD is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ananna
promotin Mahmudullah to 4 or 5 would be suicidal, IMO.
The current order is fine. We need to find better players in positions 3 thru 5.
Your insight is refreshing.
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  #11  
Old February 22, 2010, 10:19 AM
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Tiger Manc Tiger Manc is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ashrafcuk
Tiger-manc

do u think mushfiq is good enough to be a stand alone batsmen? His wicketkeeping has been poor no doubt, but his batting really hasnt been that great, but as an all-rounder he just about deserves to be in the team...but as a straight up batsmen, I dont think so.
Well if you look at his recent test results he's been averaging almost 40+ since late 2008 which is pretty good for BD standards and I think it would improve further if it wasn't for the fact that he has to keep for around 100-150 overs every innings. If we spare him the gloves then I think he can continue his fine form and take that (late 2008) average upto 45+. He would also provide stability to our middle order. I think the same could also be done for odi as I mentioned above with Mithun Ali coming in at #8 to give us some quickfire runs. There's 2 problems: a) I'm not sure if there's any other keeper out there that is top-class and reliable. b) There's no one out there that could at least average 20-30 runs in Test cricket.

If Mithun could average 25+ with a strike rate of 90+. Then I think he would be justified to come into bat at #8 provided a) He's reliable with the gloves and holds onto catches and b) Mushy improves on his average at say #4.

Mushys wicketkeeping is embarassing to watch at the moment, and dropped catches are proving costly.
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  #12  
Old February 22, 2010, 10:21 AM
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All of our national players have dropped catches. Singling out only Shafiul or Mushfiqur are not the solution.

In fact, it is difficult to single out who has not dropped a catch in the last couple of months.
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Old February 22, 2010, 10:30 AM
AshRules AshRules is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fwullah
All of our national players have dropped catches. Singling out only Shafiul or Mushfiqur are not the solution.

In fact, it is difficult to single out who has not dropped a catch in the last couple of months.
outfielders can be forgiven for dropped catches, but wicketkeepers simply cannot drop catches...their misses are really amplified exponentially.

Mushfiq went through a spell where it looked like his keeping was on the up...but he seems to have lost concentration again, and is dropping chances he really should be taking. With our weak bowling line up, we struggle to create chances as it is...we certainly cant afford to have our wicketkeeper dropping a couple of catches a match.

In terms of safe hands...i think its safe to say, Tamim is safe as a house when it comes to catches, and his fielding in general., good ground coverage, and a terrific arm.
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  #14  
Old February 22, 2010, 10:36 AM
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Tigers_eye Tigers_eye is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fwullah
All of our national players have dropped catches. Singling out only Shafiul or Mushfiqur are not the solution.

In fact, it is difficult to single out who has not dropped a catch in the last couple of months.
Sis,
I wrote a thesis on this already. Just didn't post it here at BC. Eye opening problem Shafiul has with his butter fingers. The captain/coach must shield these players from harms way. As a bowler he is much better than Rubel and Shahadat because he thinks. Kaijja koira kono labh hobey na.

Mushi's problem standing up we all know.
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Old February 22, 2010, 11:05 AM
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Raynman Raynman is offline
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Decisions that need to be made (from a high level):

1. Define Team need per match/series : For every format in every series or multi national tournaments, first define the team that is needed. By this I mean the number of pacers required, the number of spinners, grafters, sloggers, specialist Keeper etc.

2. PICK THE TEAM based on NEED: Don't pick players and then place them into the role. Pick the players based on the role.

3. Be consistant with selection : When selecting a newbie or returning a former player to the team, decide on X number of matches that they will get a chance. Lets say the number is 5. Then they must perform in at least 3 of the 5 games to keep continuing. One century and 4 single digit innings will not be acceptable. If the century comes on the last of the 5 chances. Give them 3 more to prove it wasn't a fluke.

4. No one is untouchable : ICLers should not be on team based on past accomplishments and neither should Ash. Get your chance, use it or lose it to the next guy.

5. Have back up players ready : Based on #1, the team is defined by role. Have backups per players for those roles. So when out of form or illness or injury occurs, the ones in waiting will be ready.

6. Strategize : Watch video of opposition and focus on their weakness. Find out how bowlers like Vettori lure you in to get trapped and plan accordingly. Learn how to deal with sledging and distractions.

7. Partnership Batting : No selfish batting. Follow instructions per team need and beware of the partner's strengths. Better understanding in running for singles, rotating strike and acknowledging who in the partnership should be aggressive. Once a partnership is broken, a new one begins at 0. Even if you have century to your name at that point, you need to build a partnership again.
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Old February 22, 2010, 11:08 AM
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Raynman Raynman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fwullah
All of our national players have dropped catches. Singling out only Shafiul or Mushfiqur are not the solution.

In fact, it is difficult to single out who has not dropped a catch in the last couple of months.
Mushy can and should be singled out because he is the Wicket Keeper.

Shafiul is a harder one to pick on because his dropped catches are usually c&b's that happen during the follow through action of bowling. Thats good that his bowling is landing those chances, he just needs to captialize on them.

The other guilty parties are typically the batsmen who have been going through rough batting droughts. They need to learn how to focus on fielding and not let the slump impact them. For this, the pressure should be taken off by making it clear to them beforehand where they stand in the team (still going to get X number of chances or the axe coming soon).
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  #17  
Old February 22, 2010, 11:10 AM
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nannu nannu is offline
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nobody talks about razzak.. did i missed something? is he injured?

i thought he is our best spinner
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  #18  
Old February 24, 2010, 06:40 AM
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al-Sagar al-Sagar is offline
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BCB dont want under performers like ashraful and raqibul to play. they want them to comeback with a proper rehabilitation
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  #19  
Old February 25, 2010, 12:01 PM
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al-Sagar al-Sagar is offline
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so i a happy ash and rock out. well aftab and junaed, lets see. nice to see shuvo in and mashrafe back. and there will be changes in batting order finally
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  #20  
Old February 25, 2010, 12:15 PM
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i hope shuvo gets enough chances - let him play all 3 matches
problem with siddons is that he is always reluctant to play new players
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