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  #26  
Old February 25, 2010, 11:35 AM
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even though this innings was special for tendulkar,it hasn't the hype,i rate two special innings' in one match,ponting's 165 and gibb's 171 are too psecial for tendukar
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  #27  
Old February 25, 2010, 11:36 AM
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say something smash boy
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  #28  
Old February 25, 2010, 11:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kabir
Weird analogy.



Err, there's a difference between Good Players and Great Players.

End of the day, it all boils down to definition. Zaheer Khan is a good player. But is he a great player? I hope quality for cricket hasn't gone down that much.
I guess you got me wrong ! What I mean is Zaheer is a good player at best .He might match a great like Wasim in a spell or two (or a season ) but he can never be classified as a great !

The same goes with players like Anwar ,Inzi ,Jaya and Gibbs. They were simply great in certain seasons but they could never match greats like Pointing ,Lara ,Sachin and of course Viv.Who is better among these is very subjective and depends on how you look at it .The fact that we are discussion who is better among the 'greats' shows that there is no clear winner .


P.S - Among the current lot I only see Shewag challenging the 'greats' and that too only in Tests.But again for me a Great player has to be good at all formats they play most .Dravid could have been considered a 'great' but for his pathetic ODI record.
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  #29  
Old February 25, 2010, 12:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bharat
Not much to choose between Anwar's 194* and Sachins 200.

I rate Kapils 175* better than both though.The team was 27 for 5 when he came on to bat .25 extra runs from Tendulkur would not make it better than the 175* for me .But yes had India won the match against SL where Tendulkar made 180 odd , I would have placed it at the best.

Coming to the best ever ! It has to be Sachin for me .Comparing Anwar with Sachin is like comparing Zaheer with Wasim.Good players are brilliant to exceptional in certain games or when in form but to maintain the consistency of Sachin is simply out of the world.
Yes. I agree with you. There has been many good one day players, but greats are known by their longevity and consistency. If you wanted me to name five greatest one day players, I would have to put Tendulkar at the top ( sheer numbers ) with Richards a very close second. Anwar was devastating for a period, and his innings of 194 could be considered as one of the great, but comparing the body of work that is Sachin, he won't even come close.

My personal ranking :
1 Tendulkar
1A Viv Richards
.
.
.
2 Jayasuriya ( check longevity and consistency )
3 Ponting
4 Gilchrist
5 Bevan
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  #30  
Old February 25, 2010, 12:11 PM
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To all the Anwar fans, What would it take for anyone to qualify having a better innings than his 194?

Would 300 be enough or would that also be tainted by the modernized game? Does it have to be another Pakistani to break it for it to be acceptable?
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  #31  
Old February 25, 2010, 12:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aklemalp
even though this innings was special for tendulkar,it hasn't the hype,i rate two special innings' in one match,ponting's 165 and gibb's 171 are too psecial for tendukar
Neither of them scored those runs lol Obviously you don't even remember how much they scored. "That much special"
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  #32  
Old February 25, 2010, 02:19 PM
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Btw why Sunil Gavaskar rating Sachin above Bradman on the basis of Sachin's ODI innings? Is not this idiotic?
My question to Mr. Gavaskar how many double century Sachin has scored in test cricket(real cricket)?
Brian Lara scored 9
Bradman 12(not sure)

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  #33  
Old February 25, 2010, 02:38 PM
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where did he said that ? couldn't find it on cricinfo.
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  #34  
Old February 25, 2010, 02:57 PM
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I read it in daily star
http://www.thedailystar.net/story.php?nid=127861

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  #35  
Old February 25, 2010, 03:13 PM
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I don't think sunny based his comments on this innings, his arguments for sachin's case are well known.

personally, I don't think greats from different era can be compared, the game changes too much. for that reason I'll also not call Sir Don the best of all time. that sunny insists on doing this comparison, I would put it down to his affection for his city protege.
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  #36  
Old February 25, 2010, 03:37 PM
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I will have to call Sir Don the best of all time. 99.96 avg takes the cake.
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  #37  
Old February 25, 2010, 04:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rafi_mc69
Btw why Sunil Gavaskar rating Sachin above Bradman on the basis of Sachin's ODI innings? Is not this idiotic?
My question to Mr. Gavaskar how many double century Sachin has scored in test cricket(real cricket)?
Brian Lara scored 9
Bradman 12(not sure)

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Its a good point that you bring up Rafi. Sachin (nor does Pointing and Richards) for his class for sure does not have a lot of double hundreds. That should go against these three .
+1 for Lara on that.
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  #38  
Old February 25, 2010, 04:05 PM
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and yet he only ever played in australia or england, other teams he played against, then WI India or SA were little more than minnows or that the bowlers had very little variety in those days. not to mention the pressure and analysis a modern batsman is subjected to.
or that he didn't face bowling of the likes of WI pace battery/pakistani bowling line-up of the 80's and 90's/aussie bowling of 70's, 90's and early 2000's/SA bowling of mid 90's and current. or that he didn't face murali at his home. the differences go on.

that's why I say that the greats from different era are incomparable.
Quote:
99.96 avg takes the cake.
that only says that he was head and shoulders above his contemporaries. but nobody doubted that in the first place ! who knows what a sachin, a viv or a sunny might have done in that era ?

btw, nasser hussain thinks sachin is the greatest ever.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/cri...g-The-Don.html
NASSER HUSSAIN: Mighty Sachin Tendulkar even tops Lara, Ponting and The Don!

By Nasser Hussain Last updated at 1:42 AM on 25th February 2010

* Comments (0)
* Add to My Stories

I have never liked comparisons between great players, but after Wednesday’s incredible game it must be said — Sachin Tendulkar is the greatest batsman of all time.

Better than Brian Lara and Ricky Ponting, the other two great players of my era. Better than Sir Viv Richards, Sunil Gavaskar and Allan Border. And I would even say better than Sir Don Bradman himself.

Now he has the first double hundred in a one-day international — hitting 25 fours and three sixes as India beat South Africa by 153 runs — he has swung it for me.
Indian batsman Sachin Tendulkar

Little master: Record-breaker Tendulkar celebrates reaching his landmark
SACHIN BY NUMBERS

46 One-day international hundreds

47 Test hundreds

166 Test matches played

240 Sixes in all international cricket

442 One-day internationals

13,447 Test runs scored

17,598 one-day international runs

45.12 One-day international batting average

55.56 Test batting average

I played against Tendulkar on my first England tour, the Nehru Cup in India in 1989, and I could still see that excited boy in big pads in Gwalior.

That extraordinary drive and enthusiasm are what make Tendulkar so special. He has been playing international cricket for 20 years under the intense scrutiny being an Indian superstar brings, so it is remarkable he still loves holding a bat as much as ever.

Halfway through the Indian innings on Wednesday, Tendulkar was already on more than a hundred. It’s almost a given that he will reach three figures. But even he had not turned it into a double in a 50-over international before, and this was not against a lowly side but South Africa, one of the most formidable bowling attacks in the world.

There was no slogging — just pure, attacking strokeplay.

Tendulkar has gone back to being the fluent, almost flamboyant, batsman he used to be. In recent years his innings had become a bit mechanical, but I think he has remembered what made him great.

I interviewed Sachin for Sportsmail when he was touring England a couple of years ago — one of the highlights of my career since I stopped playing, and it was noticeable that he is not driven by money.
Brian Lara of West Indies
Former Australian Cricketer Sir Donald Bradman

Better than the rest: Tendulkar is better than Lara (left) and Bradman

He has become a very wealthy man, but that has been as a result of doing what he does best and enjoying it. It has not been the be all and end all for him.

What else is left for Tendulkar now? Well, it is sometimes said that he has not played enough match-winning innings on the really big occasion for India.

What better, then, than to score a hundred in the World Cup final against Australia — or maybe even England — on home soil this time next year.

That would be the full stop that would enable Tendulkar to ride off into the sunset with everything achieved in his career.

My admiration for him is total. To steal the nickname of a certain football coach who led Inter Milan against Chelsea on Wednesday, Sachin Tendulkar truly is The Special One.
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  #39  
Old February 25, 2010, 09:37 PM
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Gavasker=Naser=Idiots
I will always say Brian Lara is better than Sachin in test.
Bradman=Superman
Viv Richard>>>>Lara and Tendu

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  #40  
Old February 25, 2010, 11:08 PM
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Can't compare. One is a milestone and the other was a high score. It's like comparing a 49 and 50.
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  #41  
Old February 25, 2010, 11:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beamer
I will have to call Sir Don the best of all time. 99.96 avg takes the cake.
But Ice Man > Brad Man. You know it.
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  #42  
Old February 25, 2010, 11:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beamer
Yes. I agree with you. There has been many good one day players, but greats are known by their longevity and consistency. If you wanted me to name five greatest one day players, I would have to put Tendulkar at the top ( sheer numbers ) with Richards a very close second. Anwar was devastating for a period, and his innings of 194 could be considered as one of the great, but comparing the body of work that is Sachin, he won't even come close.

My personal ranking :
1 Tendulkar
1A Viv Richards
.
.
.
2 Jayasuriya ( check longevity and consistency )
3 Ponting
4 Gilchrist
5 Bevan
i sort of agree...sachin = viv.

viv had a higher average, batted at least part of his career without helmets, had a killer strike rate.

sachin is a complete product, was solid from the tender age of 16-20, and then just out of this world for most of ages 20-36. to be able to do it that long is amazing, considering he's not of the most athletic build.
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  #43  
Old February 26, 2010, 07:42 AM
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I had the privilege to see both the innings, and from a cricket spectator's point of view, Sachin's innings was slightly better. Tendulkar's was more from the textbook.
But then again, when Anwar scored the 194, a ODI 200 was beyond everyone's imagination, and getting close to it was a great feat. But ODI 200 was threatened several times in the recent few years and was bound to happen.
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  #44  
Old February 26, 2010, 08:11 AM
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Quote:
But then again, when Anwar scored the 194, a ODI 200 was beyond everyone's imagination, and getting close to it was a great feat. But ODI 200 was threatened several times in the recent few years and was bound to happen.
I don't know what makes you think that. near 200 scores were as common then as they are now.

180+ scores by decade :
1980's
richards 189* vs eng
richards 181 vs SL

1990's

ganguly 183 v SL
kirsten 188* v UAE
sachin 186* v NZ
anwar 194 v Ind
2000's
hayden 181* v NZ
dhoni 183* v SL
jayasuriya 189 v Ind
coventry 194* v BD
2010's
sachin 200* v SA
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  #45  
Old February 26, 2010, 11:48 AM
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I think also the innings by Gibbs in the 438 chase, 175 off 111 balls, 21x4 7x6, and the 152 off 99 balls (20x4 4x6) by Jayasuriya in the "Headingley carnage" in 2006, were both really outstanding.
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  #46  
Old February 26, 2010, 12:00 PM
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Neel

Its impossible to compare eras as you have said. I agree, God knows what Sachin would have done if he played in Don's time. By that same argument, no one knows what Don would have done if he played in this era! Sachin has the numbers to back him up since he has also played so many more games than Don. What if Don played that many tests? Maybe his avg of 99.94 would have come down a bit, but there is no way of telling how many runs or centuries he would have compiled. Its a difficult argument. What is not arguable that these two men are the two greatest ever. Also, remember that Don never played an ODI innings. So, we have to compare Don with Sachin only in tests. Sachin has the numbers in terms or runs, centuries, games played. Don has the numbers in terms of avg, big centuries, playing half the games Sachin has played. Those are the concrete facts. Rest are projections. If Sachin played back then, maybe he would have averaged near 100 and maybe Don would have sported Sachin's number if he played tests and ODI's in this era. If you ask me, the test player vs test player comparison, that 99.94 avg is hard to bypass. The big double and triple centuries are impossible to ignore. In my mind, and its purely my own observation :
Greatest ODI player : Sachin, followed by Viv
Greatest Test player: Don, followed by Sachin and Hammond.
Greatest player of all time : Tricky, but I think Don edges Sachin slightly, though Sachin has every case for himself.
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  #47  
Old February 26, 2010, 12:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AsifTheManRahman
No takers for Gavaskar's 36*?
He was in inhuman form that day. Only Boycott's mom could get the wicket.
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  #48  
Old February 27, 2010, 08:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neel Here
and yet he only ever played in australia or england, other teams he played against, then WI India or SA were little more than minnows or that the bowlers had very little variety in those days. not to mention the pressure and analysis a modern batsman is subjected to.
or that he didn't face bowling of the likes of WI pace battery/pakistani bowling line-up of the 80's and 90's/aussie bowling of 70's, 90's and early 2000's/SA bowling of mid 90's and current. or that he didn't face murali at his home. the differences go on.

that's why I say that the greats from different era are incomparable....
You just committed blasphemy in the world of cricket/sports, my friend. Let me tell you who this man, Bradman, was.

He was born in a small country-town called Bowral, south of Sydney. In his era, there was no training facilities, there was no match fees, there was no other way of living than doing it the hard way. Staying alive itself was a challenge.( Some potential great from his era died of Pneumonia or sth of that sort.) Playing cricket in those days involved travelling for a month or three on a ship. There was no thigh pads, there was no HELMET, no chest guard. Heck, was there even a guard? His training sessions involved hitting a golf ball with a stick in his garage relentlessly. Noone showed him how to play the back-foot drive, or the cut shot.

He used to play at a time of utter unprofessionalism. Yet, he scored at an average of a century every innings. He played against fast bowlers in the Bodyline Series and saw his teammates head to hospital one after another instead of the pavillion. Yet, despite facing one of the most unusual, brutal, unsportmanlike tactics ever, he scores at an average of 57. (what's tendulkar's test average again?) today, players run when there's uneven bounce. They consider it unsafe (india vs Lanka). He had a 6-? year break in his career because of the WWII. He comes back at the age of 40 to lead his side to a clean sweep in England. The only Ashes Australia ever lost while he played was the Bodyline series. How many World Cups, and how many overseas series has Sachin won for his country? Oh by the way, Bradman never got to play in those "tough" pitches at Nagpur. If he did, he'd be scoring 300 every game.

To be called the greatest ever, you really have to do more than 200 at one match. And yes, Saeed Anwar is not really comparable to Sachin. I don't even know how to rate him against Ponting. He has done so much better personally in terms of centuries, but Ponting has led the country (captaining or otherwise) to three successive WC wins. His dogged spirit is not something I see in Sachin in the days it matters. I was partially counting on Sachin to counter Ponting's knock in WC 2003. But not to be!!

I think it is...1. Bradman 2. Bradman's shadow 3. Viv Richards 4. Ponting 5. Sachin 6. Lara ...tho Sachin may well deserve to be ahead of Viv.
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  #49  
Old February 27, 2010, 08:42 AM
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Ajaira.
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  #50  
Old February 27, 2010, 08:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BD-Shardul
Ajaira.
+1
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