Current Zimbabwe Team

[Navarene]

Now that players like A Flower, HK Olonga, CB Wishart, DA Marillier, BA Murphy, TR Gripper (all these have played in last tour to Bangladesh) are no more in Zimbabwe team, do you think our team has now a better chance to win at least 1 test and 1 ODI?

Considering the fact that A Flower, Gripper, Wishart- all had performed superbly against Bangladesh, does their absence make any difference for us?

Seems like Streak, Carlisle and Ervin will be the biggest threat to Bangladesh on this current tour. Nevertheless, I am confident that this time our team will have a nail-biting fight against this considerably weaker Zimbabwe team.

Any thoughts?

[Edited on 29-1-2004 by Navarene]

[fwullah]

Trevor Gripper, Whishart and Marillier are still in Zimbabwe (that is, they haven't left Zimbabwe along with Andy Flower and Henry Olonga and othes).

So you can add these 3 player's name in your list consisting of Streak, Carlisle, Ervine and Grant Flower.

Trevor Gripper and Marillier are in the Zimbabwe 'A' team, whereas Craig Whishart was injured when the Zimbabwean team for the on-going VB series was announced. So if Whishart is fit by the time Bangladesh's tour of Zimbabwe officially starts, then he will also play too.

And if Vermulen can get back after recovering from his fracture(not sure - check the VB series news), then Zimbabwe's opening problem will be solved.

[Beamer]

I wonder whatever happened to neil Johnson? Guy was a great cricketer. Kallis type player he was for Zimbabwe.

[oracle]

Price is a vicious bowler. Their equivalent of Rafique.

[fwullah]

Yes, I think the test series could be a series of Price vs Rafique.

Since, our batsman have played Price and the Zimbabwean batsman have played Rafique on numerous occassions, but neither of them were IN GOOD FORMS as they're now.

So, it could be a series between Price and Rafique.

[Navarene]

Thank you for the latest updates, fwullah. Now it looks even tougher to beat them prior to Gripper and Wishart's come back

[Nascer]

[Edited on 6-11-2004 by Nascer]

[fwullah]

I didn't see the new bowler Mahwire much, just saw his taking the wicket of Clarke.

Is he such a visious bowler? Is his pace somewhere like Mushfique/Sujon's?

If the way you're telling about his troubling Ponting is true, THEN WHY THE HELL CAN'T OUR MEDIUM PACERS BOWL OFF BREAKS and LEGBREAKS or OFF CUTTERS and LEGCUTTERS and SLOWER BALLS to deceive the batsman?

I know that Sujon can bowl the blockhol balls that is required at the depth of an ODI innings, but its been ages that our slow seamers had shown some of these great deceiving deliveries.

The only thing that Mushfique can do is bowl at the proper line and length, I don't know how many variations he has increased in his bowling after I've last seen him closely.

[Navarene]

Originally posted by fwullah

I know that Sujon can bowl the blockhol balls that is required at the depth of an ODI innings

Sujon can??? Can he bowl effectively on slog overs in ODI's? Can he bowl inswinging yorkers mixed with variation of pace? Can he? Let his stats tell all about his bowling:

Test
Balls: 1620, Wickets: 13, Average: 64
ODI
Balls: 2322, Wickets: 43, Average: 46.44

With a shocking average of 46.44 (the less we talk about his test average is better), how can you appreciate his bowling in ODI version of cricket???

It really does not do the image of Bangladesh Cricket any good to have a short, rotund bowler who bowls at the speed of a tortoise. I would imagine a stare from Sujon would really send shivers up ones spine - NOT.

[Edited on 29-1-2004 by Navarene]

[Nascer]

[Edited on 6-11-2004 by Nascer]

[BangladeshCricket]

i wish i could see the on going triseries were Zimb is in...also the last test series..then we could have find their specifice strengths and weaknesses..but i guess Whatmore by now already did his homework long time ago..but we wont gona share those info to us lolz

[shovon13]

i really dont think price will trouble our batsmen as much as streak, mahwire and other pacers. from time to time, our batsmen have been harrassed by pacers on bouncy pitches (except for the occasion in Australia). don't forget what shoaib, johnson, and harmison did to us.

[Sami]

Originally posted by fwullah
I know that Sujon can bowl the blockhol balls that is required at the depth of an ODI innings, but its been ages that our slow seamers had shown some of these great deceiving deliveries.

The only thing that Mushfique can do is bowl at the proper line and length, I don't know how many variations he has increased in his bowling after I've last seen him closely.

FW... Ok lets get this straight... Sujon is a really crappy bowler... the only way he usually gets wickets are catch outs... and that too mistimed big hits or big hits that doesnt carry over the ropes... it really sucks to tell u this but thats the truth... he has no pace... he is a slow medium pacer... bowling in the blockhole in slog over at his pace is just asking to be hit all over the gound... and every ODI team has taken the gifts with the biggest and heartiest thanx to Sujon...

Mushfique is a first change bowler... I dont think he needs to really work on variation that much... Mashrafee and whoever his new ball partner is can work on that... Mushfique will do fine, bowling porper line and lenght to contain the batsman in the middle over while the spinners get the wickets... he will do what Robin Singh (India), Ian Harvey (Aus), Azhar mahmood (paki) etc did/does for their teams... and occassionally he will get 5 wicket hauls... not every of the bowlers in the team has to be wasim akram... now he was a master of variations... Oh boy!

we dont need all first line pacers... 2 frontline pacers in the first 11 is great
Mushfique as first change... and depending on the pitch we play we play two spinners... for now Rafuque will be on and ashraful and someone else can share the rest 10 overs... I think thats a pretty good attack on paper... now all they need to do is show that they can do it on the ground...

[fwullah]

Ok - I think I am being recognized as a GREAT SUJON FAN, so everyone is getting at me and amake bhul bujche jokhoni I am telling something mentioning Sujon's name as an example.

No, I didn't say that Sujon bowls blockhol balls so he is the perfect bowler to bowl at the depth.

Among all our pacers, including medium and fast bowlers, there are only 3 pacers who 'KNOW HOW TO BOWL' the blockhol balls. And they are -

1. Sujon
2. Tapash
3. Monju

They can do this and others cannot because of their vast experience playing One Day cricket in domestic cricket.

Whether they can use it perfectly or efficiently or effectively, is another matter.

And as far as I know, no Bangladeshi bowler can bowl any sort of yorker, I think they try to bowl yorkers - whether inswinging or outswinging doesn't matter, they just don't have the variations. I have only seen Tapash Baisya deceiving somebody while bowling (during the WI series when he deceived Wavell Hinds to get him out). You can add this paragraph with my following sentences:-

THEN WHY THE HELL CAN'T OUR MEDIUM PACERS BOWL OFF BREAKS and LEGBREAKS or OFF CUTTERS and LEGCUTTERS and SLOWER BALLS to deceive the batsman?

[fwullah]

Mushfique is a first change bowler... I dont think he needs to really work on variation that much... Mashrafee and whoever his new ball partner is can work on that... Mushfique will do fine, bowling porper line and lenght to contain the batsman in the middle over while the spinners get the wickets... he will do what Robin Singh (India), Ian Harvey (Aus), Azhar mahmood (paki) etc did/does for their teams... and occassionally he will get 5 wicket hauls... not every of the bowlers in the team has to be wasim akram... now he was a master of variations... Oh boy!

Just to remind everyone here that before the England series, nobody cared about Mushfique, if I may, he was hated exactly the same way that Sujon is now being hated in this forum, and it was me who was going on saying that Mushfique is good, Mushfique is good. Ok, now lets forget about what happened then, lets get back to the topic.

I am only trying to compare Mushfique with the Zimbabwean all-rounders or slow medium pacers like Sean Ervine, or Mark Ealham of England, or other slow medium pacers of other countries.

First of all, Mushfique was used as the new ball bowler by Whatmore, may be Sujon's role in the team had something to do with it. But he was also used as the new ball bowler in the 5th ODI by Whatmore even when there were 2 other pace bowlers (I think Mashrafee and Tapash) in the eleven-man team.

I am assuming that from the above facts that Mushfique is now being recognized as a new ball bowler. Anyway, that view can be easily changed.

What I would like to do is observe and compare the Zimbabwean medium pace all rounders with our medium pace all rounder - Mushfique Babu.

It is only now that Sean Ervine has found a terrific form, but he has been playing in the Zimbabwean team for years now and he is now in their team because other players are not in Zimbabwe anymore.

So, if the slow medium pace bowlers like Ervine, Mahwire can bowl to deceive batsman of other test playing countries (like Ponting of Australia and others), then our medium pacers should also try to be more competitive and must have more variations in their bowling.

Ian Harvey of Australia can bowl at the depth, and can do it pretty well besides bowling during middle of the innings, and he can deceive the batsman. So I can't compare Mushfique with Ian Harvey, with Robin Singh or Azhar Mahmood - yes, I can, because they're not so great bowlers. But Azhar Mahmood has hit test match centuries against South Africa, so look at the players and their stats that our young Mushfique has to compete with.

If Sujon was in the squad, and not Mushfique, then I would not compare Sujon with all these players because Sujon is a 33 year old, and his time at International cricket has may be at least 2 years left. But Mushfique is only 24 years old now, and he has a lot to learn, (Sean Ervine is only 22 now, 2 years younger than Mushfique).

So it will be always good if all our seamers, whether playing for the national team, or for the 'A' team, should learn these variations, because as we see now, we have 3 bowlers in particular, Anwar Hossain Munir, Tareq Aziz Khan and Alamgir Kabir, who are suddenly in the test team, though they might not be in the final eleven.

and occassionally he will get 5 wicket hauls

Our main pace bowlers do not have even a 5 wicket haul, so how can our all rounders have a 5 wicket haul? Isn't Mushfique being over-rated a lot here? Yes, we could say that when Mashrafee, Tapash, Monju are taking 4 wicket hauls, may be occassionally Mushfique can take 3 wicket hauls sometime.

I don't think the Zimbabean or the Namibian wickets will be that turning to play 2 spinners together, against Namibia, we can get away with that.

But against Zimbabwe, we cannot bowl Kapali / Ashraful for 10 overs, they are too expensive for ODI cricket. And if we look at our past records against Zimbabwe in Zimbabwe, even Rafique had a pretty bad time in Zimbabwe compared to the other pace bowlers.

[Beamer]

fw
You a "shujon fan"...noooo...you kidding!!

See that was the problem. Shujon mia while captaining thought of himself as a Joel garner and he will come on to bowl himself during the penultimate overs, only to get slaughtered. Meanwhile frontline bowlers like Masri or tapash watch him from the farsideliens .You say he can bowl in the blockhole and later down the paragraph you say no one can bowl the yorker. I find your statement a bit paradoxical. What is it really?? And what is this Shujon fascination? I am overly curious now. attio -shojon naki ? taholey alada kotha and its understandable.

[fwullah]

Naaah, I am just a cricket fan WHO WANTS BANGLADESH TO WIN, NO MATTER AT WHAT COST.

Sujon can bowl at the depth and I don't think block hole balls and yorkers are necessarily the same thing.

Sujon knows that Mashrafee, and other younger bowlers can neither bowl block hole balls nor yorkers, that was why he continued bowling himself at the depth.

But because he is unable to maintain a proper line and length which he could not realize that he was unable to maintain a proper line and length while bowling himself, so that is why he gives away too many runs whether it is during the middle of an innings or during the end of an innings.

Although Sujon is called a good captain, I found this part of his captaincy to be poor. He did not give enough chances to Mashrafee to bowl at the depth, and if a young bowler is not given enough chances to bowl at the depth, then he won't learn how to bowl at the depth. So he was too protective of the younger bowlers.

[Beamer]

Yeah..We all want us to win. This loser tag has to be shed. I think we will surprise people In Zim.

Are there any young lefties currently in the divisional teams that are doing well in mirazapore tea competition?

[Hasib]

What I think is rediculas is that Muhmud is being called incompitent in ODIs. He is not expensive. Here are his last 5 bowling figures...

0/30
1/64
DNB
0/22
1/32

Except the 1/64, he has been tight, Allar- Rahmatha...

[Sami]

Originally posted by fwullah
Ok - I think I am being recognized as a GREAT SUJON FAN, so everyone is getting at me and amake bhul bujche jokhoni I am telling something mentioning Sujon's name as an example.

I have accepted the fact that you are a great sujon fan... and I personally have undertaken a vandetta against our ex-captain... so yeah I guess it makes sense why we are clashing on this topic so often nowadays... Anyways... Mushfique was the new ball bowler only because mashrafee was out of the series... and you are right when u say Sujon's presence forced Mushfique to take up that role... Sujon was hogging the space of a bowler/batsman (i.e. he was not supposed to be in the team) and we had no choice but to play mushfiq along with tapash...

I was one of the people who said Mushfique wasnt playing well... and I am one of the people who changed his tone and started praising him when he performed well... I am not hiding that fact... I am proud that he proved me wrong and made me eat my words... And I also said somewhere else in the forums that I am going to sing ur song as soon as sujon bhai makes me sing that song with his performances (i so pray it happens)... u are not the only one who wants Bangladesh to win...

[Nascer]

[Edited on 6-11-2004 by Nascer]

[Navarene]

By the way, can someone enlighten me with this "block hole ball" thingy? What is it at all? Does it mean that the ball should be pitched at the right spot with an accurate line and length? Can a block hole ball only be delivered by fast/medium/slow medium pacers? Or does it also apply for the spinners when they bowl?

I am familiar with somany bowling variations, such as off cutter, leg cutter, inswinger, out swinger, reverse swing, overpitched, yorker, slower, orthodox, chinaman, off brake, leg brake, googly, doosra etc. But now I am kinda surprised about my restricted cricketing knowledge since I have never been familiar with such kind of bowling art.

[fwullah]

I believe that you have seen block hole balls so many times, that "you don't know what you know" -

Anyway, here goes - Block hole ball is something like the following:-

- all bowlers whether pacers or spinners can bowl it

- the batsman cannot score more than a single off the block hole ball, or may be sometimes cannot score more than a couple, depending on the position of the fielders and where the ball went

- The line does not necessarily have to be accurate, however if its too wide, it can be called a wide or the batsman can score a four off it depending on the capability of the batsman

- in short, it is a ball that is bowled to stop batsman from scoring fours or sixes when the situation like the last 10 overs or the last 5 overs come into an innings

Other people, did I miss something?

[Navarene]

Thank you. Now I got it. The "block hole ball" is a TERM used when the bowler restricts a batsman from scoring runs. And any variation of bowling can be a block hole ball. tai na?

[Sami]

As far as I know.... its the ball u ball right in front of the wicket... a yorker... it HAS to be a yorker... Probably its just another way to say the bowler bowled a yorker. I guess any bowler can bowl in the blockhole, spinners and pacers alike... its a term made famous by the ESPN commentatros I guess... Heard Tony greig shouting ''right up on the block hole'' so many times... never for a BD bowling though...

I cud be wrong though... :duh: this is just my opinion and thats what I always thought what a block-hole ball was...

[Edited on 31-1-2004 by radicalsami]