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  #26  
Old May 30, 2010, 03:08 PM
dark mage dark mage is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Equinox
FYI you can't go from innings defeats to winning test matches. Step by step improvements. It's there for all to see.
I totally agree, all of our recent test matches have gone into 5 days, none of them were inninghs defeat. Its a definite big improvement and it should be obvious for people to see. Also in the one-days we give regular fights and get close in every match. I will rather have regular competetive matches over one or two Eid wins here and there. Siddons cant teach morons like Ashraful who is too full of himself and wont listen to him and he cant really teach bowlers but even so, there's little he can do if the bowlers dont stick to a plan, like Siddons asked his bowlers to pitch the ball up in the warm-up games but the bowlers kept banging it short. So what's a coach supposed to.

In my opinion, Siddons has done a wonderful job fin converting this once-in-a-blu-moon team into a regular fighting unit. Our team now reminds me of the Zimbawe that had Flower and Streak playing for them, always competing and fighting hard. Why are people saying he is bad with bowlers, ofcourse that's because he isnt a bowling coach and that's precisely why we had a bowling coach who unfortunately did a crap job.
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  #27  
Old May 30, 2010, 03:12 PM
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desirocker desirocker is offline
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he should only be our batting coach.
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  #28  
Old May 30, 2010, 03:30 PM
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al Furqaan al Furqaan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Equinox
I don't expect most people to understand what Siddons is doing and realise his influence until after he's gone. Five-ten years from now people will hail him as the architect of our success. He came in with a long-term plan and wasn't in it for one or two fluke wins a year a la Whatmore.
yes, mind boggling how some people think that champaka was a good pacer coach too.

yes, to some extent, development or performance is based on the players themselves. they're the ones who are bowling, batting, fielding, etc. however, Siddons' technical advice must be paying dividends. previously, a bowler of Jimmy Anderson's calibre would mercilessly run through our top, middle, and bottom order and inflict an innings defeat on us on a pitch 83 times as flat as this one. each one of these bowlers is good. forget player of the year Swann (the best offie in the world right now and one of the very few non-Bangladeshi players i support). Anderson is better than he's played this game (maybe we're just that good, haha). Bresnan was the leading pacer when they toured BD just a few weeks ago, and Finn has 6 for the match as it stands right now, so he's definitely not shabby.

lets just see where we were when Siddons first took over. recall, that Siddons got the job and was almost universally embraced due to his obvious batting pedigree. we didn't really expect him to turn us into a side that would blast the opposition out for under 150 runs in just 2 sessions. but we expected him to make us a team that would score 300 regularily and 400 frequently. and that is exactly what he's delivering. the way we are developing, there isn't any reason to think we won't be scoring 500 someday in the forseeable future. this was simply unthinkable in the past.

but even when Siddons took over, we were highly "inconsistent". that consistency is beginning to show through. just look at our averages over the past 12-18 months. everyone's is up. Habibul Bashar in his prime would struggle to get into this lineup. and he was the "Bangladeshi Bradman".

look at Siddons first test series, we had that record (broken today) opening stand of 161 between Junaid and Tamim, the remaining 39 wickets that series fetched us 486 runs @ an average of 12.46. this was in NZ against attack of Martin, Mills, Obrien, Oram and Vettori. not a minnow attack, but not world beaters either.

so far, excluding tamim and imrul's play today, we have 425-14 @ 30.36.
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  #29  
Old May 30, 2010, 05:32 PM
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nycpro96 nycpro96 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by al Furqaan
yes, mind boggling how some people think that champaka was a good pacer coach too.

yes, to some extent, development or performance is based on the players themselves. they're the ones who are bowling, batting, fielding, etc. however, Siddons' technical advice must be paying dividends. previously, a bowler of Jimmy Anderson's calibre would mercilessly run through our top, middle, and bottom order and inflict an innings defeat on us on a pitch 83 times as flat as this one. each one of these bowlers is good. forget player of the year Swann (the best offie in the world right now and one of the very few non-Bangladeshi players i support). Anderson is better than he's played this game (maybe we're just that good, haha). Bresnan was the leading pacer when they toured BD just a few weeks ago, and Finn has 6 for the match as it stands right now, so he's definitely not shabby.

lets just see where we were when Siddons first took over. recall, that Siddons got the job and was almost universally embraced due to his obvious batting pedigree. we didn't really expect him to turn us into a side that would blast the opposition out for under 150 runs in just 2 sessions. but we expected him to make us a team that would score 300 regularily and 400 frequently. and that is exactly what he's delivering. the way we are developing, there isn't any reason to think we won't be scoring 500 someday in the forseeable future. this was simply unthinkable in the past.

but even when Siddons took over, we were highly "inconsistent". that consistency is beginning to show through. just look at our averages over the past 12-18 months. everyone's is up. Habibul Bashar in his prime would struggle to get into this lineup. and he was the "Bangladeshi Bradman".

look at Siddons first test series, we had that record (broken today) opening stand of 161 between Junaid and Tamim, the remaining 39 wickets that series fetched us 486 runs @ an average of 12.46. this was in NZ against attack of Martin, Mills, Obrien, Oram and Vettori. not a minnow attack, but not world beaters either.

so far, excluding tamim and imrul's play today, we have 425-14 @ 30.36.
Perfectly analyzed. I personally, always had liked Jamie Siddons. I knew he would improve our batting side and he has, drastically.
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  #30  
Old May 30, 2010, 06:05 PM
Equinox Equinox is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reyme
How come Shakib is suppose to improve his captaincy? By himself?
What's the role of a head coach may I ask?
"Coaching refers to the activity of a coach in developing the abilities of coachees or clients."

Every batsman has improved their game under Siddons. Except Ashraful who has remained the same, I think statistically even he has improved a tiny bit under Siddons. Shakib is supposed to learn from his mistakes but he isn't. Siddons can't be in the field and make the decisions for him. You can't teach innovative captaincy. You have to rise to the occasion. A captain must know his team inside out. Now I am not anti-Shakib, he is at times brilliant but sometimes he makes such amateurish decisions that I can't help but question whether he is taking anything on board. But all these days he had an unbearable amount of pressure on his shoulder as the team's best batsman and bowler but now with the emergence of Tamim and the others he will have a massive burden off his shoulder. And it should be easier for him to captain so let's just be patient. I personally feel we are very very close to crossing the final hurdle.
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  #31  
Old May 30, 2010, 06:30 PM
alibangali alibangali is offline
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We desperately need a good bowling coach, our bowling needs to be improved drastically.

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  #32  
Old May 30, 2010, 06:38 PM
IanW IanW is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AK420
Well, one mistake he did was to Ash change his batting style

He reformed our batting, but what about our bowling? Where has our bowling gone to? We now have only a good SLA while Mash, our best pacer is always injury ridden with no replacement.
Rubel Hossain and Shaiful Islam are perfectly decent fast bowlers - they arent great, but do you want me to find some names from 5 years ago ?
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  #33  
Old May 30, 2010, 07:23 PM
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al Furqaan al Furqaan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nycpro96
Perfectly analyzed. I personally, always had liked Jamie Siddons. I knew he would improve our batting side and he has, drastically.
i, along with 99% of BC members applauded his apointment back in december 2007. a year later, we were in the pits. ODI team was conceding 300 every single innings...test team had failed to score more than 250 a single time.

while most BCers were clamoring for Siddons' head, i asked for him to have at least 24 months and then decide to see whether he should stay or go. i did NOT support Siddons around the beginning of 2009, but i did NOT oppose him either.

1.5 years later, it appears as though Siddons has vindicated his position.

of course our fielding is generally shabby (imrul and junaid have improved our previously non-existant slip fielding) but otherwise we are mediocre at best in the field. our bowling also needs work, but JS cannot do it all. in fact, what he has done it can be argued is more important than either fielding or bowling, and he's already achieved what none of us imagined he could.
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  #34  
Old May 30, 2010, 07:39 PM
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al-Sagar al-Sagar is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alibangali
We desperately need a good bowling coach, our bowling needs to be improved drastically.

Posted via BC Mobile Edition
we need a good bowling coach who will teach our bowlers, how to read a pitch, what length each of they should bowl in different pitches. how to plan wickets with different field setting and strategy and practice and hard in nets to be consistent.
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  #35  
Old May 30, 2010, 10:03 PM
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22Yards 22Yards is offline
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i wonder where those people are who were against siddons couple of days ago.

anyway, before holding him accountable as the worlds worst bowling coach may i ask how many quality bowlers we have in our team ? its like blaming the milkman for why an ox isnt providing milk ? its not suppose to milk you moron because it doesnt have the ability to. Saying that i can clearly see shafiul and rubel improving little by little and hopefully will emerge as good bowlers. Our batsman doing well because of a combination of their talents and coaches effort to groove that talent. So far none of our bowlers have showcased anything out of ordinary in the field except shakib who is doing pretty well and mashrafe whose out of form could be excused due to injuries.
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  #36  
Old May 30, 2010, 11:10 PM
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First of all, people need to realize that he can't only be a batting coach for us after being a head coach for so long. That just won't happen. He would rather quit than getting a demotion in status. I am not willing to lose his contribution to our batting at this moment. So, what we need to do is get him some help. Get some good bowling coach, fielding coach or even motivational manager like Khaled Mahmud. Let him continue his good work with our batting. We will start to draw matches and then win some eventually.
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  #37  
Old May 30, 2010, 11:28 PM
wiseshah wiseshah is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by offstump
i think he needs to have a 2-3 week camp with the A team, academy and under 19 batsman
Totally agree

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  #38  
Old May 31, 2010, 12:13 AM
Russell2k7 Russell2k7 is offline
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Have always been a supporter of Sid. Personally I like him. Dude has brains. Our former coaches only gave us fluke wins here and there. His individual perf is a good tactic. Unlike most other major sports cricket indeed is a individual game.
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  #39  
Old May 31, 2010, 12:39 AM
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Rommel Rommel is offline
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God damn, you don't need a motivator to win matches! All you need to do is show up and play better than your opponent. Coach Siddons is on the way to ensure this for us. Never before have we had so many batsmen in the team that could perform on any given day. Gone are the days of relying on Ashraful. Gone are the days of us needing "motivation" for our occasional fluke wins. Siddons has brought an Australia-like culture to our Cricket. One of professionalism. If you hit the balls well, bowl well, and field well, you win the match. You don't need motivation for that. This team isn't some preteen ragtag group of kids who cry if things don't go their way. Show up to the ground, play hard and smart for 7 hours, go home, and come back and do it again the next day. That's it.
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  #40  
Old May 31, 2010, 12:47 AM
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godzilla godzilla is offline
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Am not sure what is the matter with MOST of the BC members. Either Siddon is good or bad, you can't have it both. Each week there is a thread opened saying he is a legend, a good coach, he should stop coaching, he is a horrible coach, etc. I see threads like this always after one of the players scores a 100 or fails miserably. Maybe it's time for someone to open a OFFICIAL JS THREAD!

P.S I personaly think is he doing a good job despite us not winning matches. Individual performance is showing that we are improving. Infact, that is quite a good tactic if you ask me. Sometimes a match can be won by an INDIVIDUAL therefore the man of the match reward exist .
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  #41  
Old May 31, 2010, 12:51 AM
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FaHiMa FaHiMa is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by godzilla
... Maybe it's time for someone to open a OFFICIAL JS THREAD!
I think there is one that was created not too long ago. What happened to it ?
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  #42  
Old May 31, 2010, 02:01 AM
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Baundule Baundule is offline
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By now, Siddons should be pretty ashamed of his pre-series comments.

He was singling out a few players (Tamim, Shakib, Mushfiq and Riyadh) to perform well; but he had no clue that the likes of Shahadat, Janaed or kayes can perform. We were supposed to be buried in the cold by the English pace and bla bla bla. He was just being realistc!

Unfortunately (for him), the reality is a bit different. There was no Herkules either in English bowlers or in the British climate as the guys at the top order showed in both innings. Still the 'team' failed to avoid the follow on. This is what happens when the focus is on individual achievements (where the individuals are always the performing ones for that particular match/series) and not on the team achievement.

As a team, we had much more important things to achieve in the series. English bowling line up is only half strong as it was during the Flintoff-Harmison era. And a bit of patience and some more confidence on the players would have done wonders for our players. The coach has to instill that confidence and build the team as a team. It does not help the team to critise players openly and say that they are crap, especially when they are selected.

On the 5th day of the test, I hope the 'team' will show a big heart to save the test, not undoing all the good work of the top order, instead of thinking that we have already achieved those individual things.

Last edited by Baundule; May 31, 2010 at 05:29 AM..
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  #43  
Old May 31, 2010, 04:50 AM
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al-Sagar al-Sagar is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Baundule
By now, Siddons should be pretty ashamed of his pre-series comments.

He was singling out a few players (Tamim, Shakib, Mushfiq and Riyadh) to perform well; but he had no clue that the likes of Shahadat, Janaed or kayes can perform. We were supposed to be buried in the cold by the English pace and bla bla bla. He was just being realistc!

Unfortunately, the reality is a bit different. There was no Herkules either in English bowlers or in the British climate as the guys at the top order showed in both innings. Still the 'team' failed to avoid the follow on. This is what happens when the focus is on individual achievements (where the individuals are always the performing ones for that particular match/series) and not on the team achievement.

As a team, we had much more important things to achieve in the series. English bowling line up is only half strong as it was during the Flintoff-Harmison era. And a bit of patience and some more confidence on the players would have done wonders for our players. The coach has to instill that confidence and build the team as a team. It does not help the team to critise players openly and say that they are crap, especially when they are selected.

On the 5th day of the test, I hope the 'team' will show a big heart to save the test, not undoing all the good work of the top order, instead of thinking that we have already achieved those individual things.
very well said
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  #44  
Old May 31, 2010, 04:59 AM
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lamisa lamisa is offline
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he's a great coach and it's not his fault that our bowlr aren't that pleasing.he can't do anything about those brainless people who are warming the chairs at the top level in bcb.
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  #45  
Old June 7, 2010, 05:47 AM
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"Robert Brown with a bit of gossip about Bangladesh coach Jamie siddons. " it was actually discussed on nova F.m radio sporting programme which is on in Adelaide S.A and it was being discussed by the panel who said they had it on good authority the the Bangladesh cricket board had discussed Siddons Contract and were not happy with him. " - Cricinfo
http://www.cricinfo.com/zim-tri2010/...ch/452151.html (beginning of 41st over)
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  #46  
Old June 7, 2010, 06:07 AM
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Baundule Baundule is offline
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from the same page,
Morten Kriek: "Interesting comments by Robert Brown, and not surprising. There's a heap of talent in the Bangladeshi team, and they shouldn't be far away from some upsets. However, Siddons publicly states time and time again that"mediocre" performances are fine, as long as progress is booked. Rubbish I think, stimulates individual performances, rather that create a "do or die" attitude within the team. Over time we have seen that even a team of underperforming individuals can win maches, because of team spirit!"

He has got it right.
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  #47  
Old June 7, 2010, 06:19 AM
firstlane firstlane is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Baundule
from the same page,
Morten Kriek: "Interesting comments by Robert Brown, and not surprising. There's a heap of talent in the Bangladeshi team, and they shouldn't be far away from some upsets. However, Siddons publicly states time and time again that"mediocre" performances are fine, as long as progress is booked. Rubbish I think, stimulates individual performances, rather that create a "do or die" attitude within the team. Over time we have seen that even a team of underperforming individuals can win maches, because of team spirit!"

He has got it right.
Spot on. He has said what every Bangladeshi believes.
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  #48  
Old June 7, 2010, 06:26 AM
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nahaz nahaz is offline
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Someone pointed out on Cricinfo during the Zimbabwe vs Sri Lanka match that
1. targetting individual performance doesn't stop the team from performing absolute rubbish; while
2. By instilling a "do or die" attitude in a team, even a team of mediocres can be a winning combination.

Case 1 excellently demonstrated by Bangladesh in this series. Great individual performances that should have won a match, but not backed up by the team.

Case 2 is excellently being demonstrated by ZImbabwe who just handed India two massive losses in a row, and can only improve from here.

Siddons has done a great job with the batsman. I also acknowledge that its not his job to hold everyone's hand. But his approach of individual performances is clearly not making the players perform as a team and thus we have NIL wins, and god-willing, will have nil wins in 2010.

And I have never liked his putting up players on the gallows at press conferences. After three years, the losses can be attributed to him by about 10%, since he is part of the team. Surely, not all selections are made by ignoring him, and surely whatmore delivered more wins with a team much inferior to the current Zimbabwe team.

Individually, every player has performed. Tamim (for a year), Sakib (last year), RIyad (start of the year), Mushfique ( last year) , Naeem ( the Tri series), Shahadat (vs India and at Lord's), Rubel ( near debut), Shafi (now, while new), Imrul ( now) etc. But collectively, they don't click. Some do not even try for a win when an opportunity presents itself. Its a subconscious thing. Only Tamim, Zunaed, Imrul and Shafi try whenever possible. Rest just go with the flow.

If I was a car salesperson, and I got told I'd receive a bonus of $1000 for every month of sales of over 10 cars, I would probably try my best to get there. But say I'm the best salesman,if I got there after half a month, I'd be just "taking it easy" for the rest of the month. Whereas, if my team of five was told that we'd get a $1000k bonus each for sales of over 50 cars for the team, even if I'm way above the rest, I'd help make sure the team gets to its goal, and teamwork would be a lot better.

Sometimes I feel Shakib feels like Riyad is his competition. There have been a lot of times when he wasn't given a bowl when he deserved it. Razzak could never be a threat, and maybe that's why he likes him. He also never loses a chance to pay out the pace bowlers. ( I'm just dumping things out of my brain here.) He likes to show who's the boss, but right now his own batting makes paying out other batsman for irresponsible shots a very stupid thing to do.

Shakib and Siddons both got issues. They like to play games and dominate the team. Maybe Ashraful did it as well as captain, but it doesn't help the team. I'd like to know what Siddons is going to do once the England ODIs are over. Does he just go home and rest for two months, or does he take a 2-week break and then come back to Bangladesh and prepares what he feels is the best training regime possible for the team. If I was the coach, I'd even leave the boys instructions on what not to do in my absence ( eating massive dawats, stopping exercising etc).

I know it all sounds corny, but I find no peace seeing the rubbish our team is churning out day after day, even though they seem to be improving individually. But there's no point even having a Lara, a Tendulkar and a Warne in the team ifwe never win. Honestly, there isn't..
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  #49  
Old June 7, 2010, 06:35 AM
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Baundule Baundule is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by firstlane
Spot on. He has said what every Bangladeshi believes.
You are wrong about every Bangladeshi.
We have problems in assessing Siddons, some assess him entirely on what he says and some other depends on what he does. It is not always like he is talking rubbish, in fact he talks well; but that type of talking is not his duty. For example, he is usually right saying Ashraful is a crap; but such comments does not help the team. If a player is crap, the management including the coach should drop him instead of bashing him in public. Now as fans, some of us jump on the 'right' words that Siddons says (they like Siddons) and some other think that his duty is 'doing the right thing' not 'talking'. Some people attribute the success of a few player like Shakib, Tamim, Mushy, Riyadh etc. to Siddons, whereas some other think, team comes first than individuals. So, many men, many minds; but at the end of the day Siddons will be under pressure if we continue playing like this, although Tamim's century or Shakib's 5-for may let him live a bit longer before he leaves Bangladesh cricket.

@nahaz, top post!

Last edited by Baundule; June 7, 2010 at 06:41 AM..
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  #50  
Old June 7, 2010, 07:22 AM
alibangali alibangali is offline
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Motvation is one of the most important skill that Siddon's lacks as Head Coach. Motivating a team who constantly loses is a difficult job however it is vital role for bangladesh. JS does not help himself by being "honest" in his public criticisms of his players which in-turn will demoralise the players. Michael Atherton said it during commentary and i agree with him, we need a motivator to keep the belief of winning instilled in the physche of the players.
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