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  #51  
Old October 1, 2010, 11:19 AM
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roman roman is offline
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^^We are being so technical here. There is no GOD but Allah, we all know what it means...La ilaha Illallah, even the atheist belive "La ilaha" part ..
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  #52  
Old October 1, 2010, 11:29 AM
Hrithik Hrithik is offline
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its bible vs bacteria

according to bible god created everything and to science man or universe originated from bacteria under favourable conditions

i saw this in a show of discovery channel

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  #53  
Old October 1, 2010, 04:05 PM
Blah Blah is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Electrequiem
Life as WE know it.

Universe is not that greatly "fine-tuned" though, buddy. Life is highly improbably everywhere else, and it is by chance that we have life here on Earth. Besides, this "fine-tuning" holds now, in this narrowest slice of time. But try to propose the same thing a some millions of years later, when the sun's energy is dissipating, or the "big-chill" from universal expansion is kicking in. Life would be improbable then, wouldn't it? Universe is constantly going towards chaos, so these constants are also changing.

Have you ever heard of the "God of the Gaps" argument? Basically, God is a glue that can seal any part of an argument with holes. Just because we can't explain this "fine-tuning" now doesn't mean there's a dude with a bunch of knobs controlling everything. Not all scientists agree to this fine-tuning, and even if they did, our knowledge of physics is so little that we don't even know what we don't know.

A believer doesn't need physical evidence of God's existence. In fact, that is the very antithesis of a believer.
I agree with most of what you said, except for this part:

Quote:
> Life is highly improbably everywhere else, and it is by chance that we have life here on Earth.
We don't have any knowledge to make a claim like that. There has been some reasonable argument made in favor of life being very common suggesting that just in our Galaxy there are most likely millions of planets with life (advanced or otherwise). Let alone the observable universe or the whole universe.

People who makes arguments like "if there is life everywhere, how come we never see them or why don't they contact us?" (I am not referring to you but a lot of people makes these kind of arguments to suggest intelligent life to be rare and possibly only available in this planet), fails to understand the scale and size of our galaxy and the universe and our inability to break the laws of physics.

It is very much possible that there are advanced life like us all over our galaxy and the universe (and even far more advanced than us) and they will never see us and we will never see them.

I think this scenario is far more likely, but we will have to wait and see.

See Also: Drake Equation.

Edit: In reference to the Scale of the Universe

Last edited by Blah; October 1, 2010 at 06:04 PM..
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  #54  
Old October 2, 2010, 11:22 AM
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shakibrulz shakibrulz is offline
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Pretty subjective. Its not possible to scientifically prove that god exists. Plus it depends upon your definition of 'god'.
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  #55  
Old October 2, 2010, 11:24 AM
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shakibrulz shakibrulz is offline
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BTW just wanted to ask a doubt to my muslim friends here:
What happens when after the death of a good guy, who's born in a non islamic religion according to Islam? He goes to hell?
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  #56  
Old October 2, 2010, 05:02 PM
Blah Blah is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shakibrulz
BTW just wanted to ask a doubt to my muslim friends here:
What happens when after the death of a good guy, who's born in a non islamic religion according to Islam? He goes to hell?
Short answer: Yes!

Slightly longer, cautious, side-stepping answer: God works in mysterious ways.
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  #57  
Old October 2, 2010, 05:18 PM
iDumb iDumb is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blah
Short answer: Yes!
don't answer uninformed. And don't speak for Islam since you don't follow it... he specifically asked this question to his "muslim" friends. OK? if you wanna answer write a disclosure like "i am not muslim and I don't know anything about it"...but this is what I think.

Any people following the books of God (ie Quran, bible, torah) is part of the ummah...and hence can go to heaven....Not only that God judges who goes where....there are plenty of Muslims that are hell bound.
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  #58  
Old October 2, 2010, 05:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iDumb
don't answer uninformed. And don't speak for Islam since you don't follow it... he specifically asked this question to his "muslim" friends. OK? if you wanna answer write a disclosure like "i am not muslim and I don't know anything about it"...but this is what I think.
As an atheist I am more informed about religion than you are as a religious person. Don't be dumb.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/28/us/28religion.html

Quote:
Any people following the books of God (ie Quran, bible, torah) is part of the ummah...and hence can go to heaven....Not only that God judges who goes where....there are plenty of Muslims that are hell bound.
The aayah is (interpretation of the meaning): "And whoever seeks a religion other than Islaam, it will never be accepted of him, and in the Hereafter he will be one of the losers." [Aal ‘Imraan 3:85]

The hadeeth is: "By the One in Whose hand is the soul of Muhammad, there is no-one of this ummah, Jew or Christian, who hears of me then dies without believing in that with which I have been sent, but he will be one of the people of Hell." (Reported by Muslim, may Allaah have mercy on him, in al-Saheeh, 153).


Verily, those who belie Our Ayât (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, signs, revelations, etc.) and treat them with arrogance, for them the gates of heaven will not be opened, and they will not enter Paradise until the camel goes through the eye of the needle (which is impossible). Thus do We recompense the Mujrimûn (criminals, polytheists, sinners, etc.). (Al-A'raf:40)


Then, who does more wrong than one who utters a lie against Allâh, and denies the truth [this Qur'ân, the Prophet (Muhammad SAW), the Islâmic Monotheism, the Resurrection and the reward or punishment according to good or evil deeds] when it comes to him! Is there not in Hell an abode for the disbelievers? (Az-Zumar:32)
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  #59  
Old October 2, 2010, 05:55 PM
iDumb iDumb is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blah
As an atheist I am more informed about religion than you are
That doesn't say much about you. You can still be uninformed about islam being "more informed than me". Hence I suggested you don't answer to a question that was directed for people of certain faith, not you. Your credibility is already lost.

Since you are so good, use google and find all the discussions pertaining to this topic. It's readily available for everyone.
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  #60  
Old October 2, 2010, 06:24 PM
Blah Blah is offline
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Maybe you should address the question that I answered correctly as a non-religious person, that you as a religious person had no idea about, all your life, until ten minutes ago.
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  #61  
Old October 2, 2010, 09:19 PM
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Everyone who hears the message of Islam in a sound and correct form (and rejects it), will have evidence against them. Whoever dies without having heard the message, or having heard it in a distorted form, then his case is in the hands of Allaah. Allaah knows best about His creation, and He will never treat anyone unfairly. And Allaah is All-Seer of His slaves.

"And those who disbelieved will be driven to Hell in groups, till, when they reach it, the gates thereof will be opened (suddenly like a prison at the arrival of the prisoners). And its keepers will say, "Did not the Messengers come to you from yourselves, reciting to you the Verses of your Lord, and warning you of the Meeting of this Day of yours?" They will say: "Yes, but the Word of torment has been justified against the disbelievers!"
(Az-Zumar 39:71)

A person who has never heard of Islam or the Prophet SAWS (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), and who has never heard the message in its correct and true form, will not be punished by Allaah if he dies in a state of kufr (disbelief). If it were asked what his fate will be, the answer will be that Allaah will test him on the Day of Resurrection: if he obeys, he will enter Paradise and if he disobeys he will enter Hell.

Allah (swt) knows best.

Here's the link
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  #62  
Old October 3, 2010, 01:38 AM
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shakibrulz shakibrulz is offline
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Thanks guys. So say, I have heard of Islam, but I'm still a believer of my religion, then I'm doomed?
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  #63  
Old October 3, 2010, 02:49 AM
Hrithik Hrithik is offline
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according to Chitti God exists

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  #64  
Old October 3, 2010, 11:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shakibrulz
Thanks guys. So say, I have heard of Islam, but I'm still a believer of my religion, then I'm doomed?
shakibrulz bro, I really didnt wanna jump into this conversation out of nowhere... but just wanted to say you should do your own research (and that needs to go beyond google) just by yourself. I am sure you'll find the answer.... inshAllah...

I hope you are not expecting to know whether you are heaven/hell bound after you die from this 'Forget Cricket' section of banglacricket, we all wish it was as simple as that.


@ blah bhai: Just wanted to say, I have read all your recent posts regarding religion (Quran Science thread and others)... and I am blessed that they have made my Faith stronger. And I must admit that it has worked much better for me than a lot of the Jumma Khutbas. Maybe thats what Allah (swt) intended to do.

Thankyou for your posts and participation in those debates, it really helped...
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  #65  
Old October 4, 2010, 02:31 PM
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roman roman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shakibrulz
BTW just wanted to ask a doubt to my muslim friends here:
What happens when after the death of a good guy, who's born in a non islamic religion according to Islam? He goes to hell?
Not necessarily. My understanding is that any person who has been offered a true and complete understanding of Islam and knowingly rejects it, then dies without repenting, is destined for hell. One must have an opportunity to embrace Islam and then upon his/her own informed judgement, free will and free choice to refuse to embrace it before that person is at risk of condemnation on this. According to Quran
"2:62 Surely those who believe in Islam, those who are jewish, the christian and the converts; anyone who believes in God and believes in the last day, and leads a righteous life, will receive their recompense from their lord. They have nothing to fear nor will they grieve".

What I think is that people who have faith in GOD will be rewarded. It can be christian, jews as long as they obeyed what they did follow what they believed was the law of GOD. Allah is not partial. He is extremely Kind and we all were created by him. And I am sure there will be many muslims who will be in hell as well as christians and jews.But Allah knows the best....

My dear Brothers and Sisters..Before coming to a conclusion I request you to kindly do your research. Islam is not what the media is telling you. May Allah show the right path to all of us and help us to overcome all the trouble...
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  #66  
Old October 6, 2010, 08:56 AM
FagunerAgun FagunerAgun is offline
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This is the oldest question, dogmatic and problematic in sheer nature definitively, of this human race and a nice thread in mostly a secular cyber society. For me, to analyze this question is very time consuming and an individual dedication to Him whom we like to analyze; saints passed decades after decades with self-ascension to find this answer and to veritably see the love and beauty of our creator. I merely try to get the answer, instead of spending a specific time, on everything surrounding me and in my world and constantly try to get myself in aligned with our Book and then feel the heat.

If you love Him, keep on loving Him with a good faith - this is Iman. Just keep it simple and spend your time for peace and prosperity – either for yourself or for others.

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  #67  
Old October 7, 2010, 05:03 AM
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@roman Thanks mate, makes sense.
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  #68  
Old October 8, 2010, 09:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ialbd
@ blah bhai: Just wanted to say, I have read all your recent posts regarding religion (Quran Science thread and others)... and I am blessed that they have made my Faith stronger. And I must admit that it has worked much better for me than a lot of the Jumma Khutbas. Maybe thats what Allah (swt) intended to do.
Your god indeed works in mysterious ways...
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  #69  
Old October 8, 2010, 11:07 AM
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Imam Gazzali to an atheist "If you are right I lost nothing after death; but what if I am right?"
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  #70  
Old October 8, 2010, 12:19 PM
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Electrequiem Electrequiem is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thebest
Imam Gazzali to an atheist "If you are right I lost nothing after death; but what if I am right?"
Then Allah would thank the atheist for using His greatest gift to mankind - reason and logic - over moot submission.

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  #71  
Old October 9, 2010, 12:42 AM
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I know a muslim brother who saw himself in a dream in the day of judgement waiting waiting...and crying, and then he woke up in tears....

subhanAllah! he is one of my best friends and he is one the most pious brother i know, got the best of both worlds(he recently got his PHD in computer science) Duniya +Akhirah...best person i met in real life...in many ways possible!

If he sees himself in a dream like this...what about people like me ?

to tell you the truth, Allah has shown me soo many things in my life, it would be ultra hypocritical of me to not believe in him..I am a human being just like you. I live on college campus and I have all the needs wants and desires just like all of you do!

to people who do not believe in Allah: Allah answers them in the qur'an:

who sends the winds on the seas so that the boat remain afloat on water? if you put the most certain Atheist in the middle of the pacific ocean with no wind to guide him to a land, who can guide him?

I recently had an interview with an engineering company who uses the water from rivers/waterfalls and uses turbine engines to turn water into electrical energy...during the whole time of the interview this verse from quran was playing back in my memory:

"and who could send you gushing water but Allah..."(surah mulk the last ayah)...if it stop raining for one year...if it stops raining for one year on planet earth...if Allah(Swt) stops sending down the rain forget about that company. humanity will cease to exist!

many people do not believe in God is because their understanding of God is personified to something like a creation...while God is above and beyond that! of course, it wouldn't make sense would it? when you try to understand God through lenses through which God cannot be seen, because through those lenses you only see creation!

I mean at the end of the day, no matter how much i try to convince people, no matter how much I tell them this, that....people will not understand UNLESS Allah puts understanding in that person's heart, and tears flowing down their eyes realizing that this is the truth. I cannot force my understanding of life on other people because Allah choses certain people to see the truth. there are too many signs in my own daily life which proves that Allah exists and closer to me than my jugular vein. the world we live in is the same the air we breath in is the same...BUT the realization is not in everyone's heart. the signs of Allah are not clear to everyone. why? the originator of the universe, in whos hand is the dominion of the heavens and the earth, who has access to my thoughts before even it is uttered, knows far more than what i can type, research or think of...


to those people who believe, may Allah reward us and increase us in our understanding in truth and protect us from all sorts of punishments(this life + hereafter) and grant us beautiful paradise and easen our trial in this world,

to other people, i am sorry, yet another "preaching post" from Rifat!
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  #72  
Old October 9, 2010, 12:55 AM
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to people who frequently read Qur'an:

why are the example of the sun and moon often repeated?

those who use "Logic"/science to prove existence of God:

Allah in the quran makes it so clear and simple that no matter whether you are a plumber, a doctor or an engineer or a rickshawala, you can relate to it and understand it. using medical/engineering terminologies to prove something to a non-educated person would make little sense would it?

my point is: existence of Allah is best proved through stating his revelation! using our own logic will not get us anywhere. because didn't Allah say in the qur'an that everything was created in pairs? in this universe for every matter, there is anti-matter...therefore, for every argument there is a counter argument! therefore for every delivery in cricket, there is a shot which can be applied against it to get the best outcome.

isn't it best to use the "ayat"/(words of allah) of Allah to prove Allah?

who knows more? Allah or you?
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  #73  
Old October 9, 2010, 01:12 AM
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Dear YOU,

Do you exist ??

Sincerely, God.
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  #74  
Old October 9, 2010, 01:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rifat

my point is: existence of Allah is best proved through stating his revelation! using our own logic will not get us anywhere. because didn't Allah say in the qur'an that everything was created in pairs? in this universe for every matter, there is anti-matter...therefore, for every argument there is a counter argument! therefore for every delivery in cricket, there is a shot which can be applied against it to get the best outcome.
To address your dubious analogy, maybe you should be thankful to your Allah that for once he didn't create everything in pair. Because if he created matter and anti-matter in pair then you or I or anything that you know would not exist. For us to exist there needs to be a deficit in anti-matter.

God indeed works in mysterious ways...
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  #75  
Old October 9, 2010, 08:20 PM
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Rifat Rifat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blah
To address your dubious analogy, maybe you should be thankful to your Allah that for once he didn't create everything in pair. Because if he created matter and anti-matter in pair then you or I or anything that you know would not exist. For us to exist there needs to be a deficit in anti-matter.

God indeed works in mysterious ways...
this is my understanding of a translation of a verse in qur'an...so obviously it will encounter errors. my understanding does not define reality, it only defines how i think and what i think!

secondly, matter-anti-matter pair ceases to exist once they come in contact! I read this in a book, i still have that book but not with me at the moment(i my home away from campus)

I also read according to that book 99% of this universe we know is composed of anti-matter.

well, since i don't have the proper sources, maybe the internet can help:

http://press.web.cern.ch/livefromcern/antimatter/
http://www.space.com/scienceastronom...un_030929.html

this is really off-topic

Nice one, Rabz bhai

the last statement i fully concur , mysterious indeed!
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