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  #826  
Old April 1, 2017, 06:07 PM
Gowza Gowza is offline
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Reality is imrul has a ODI average of 29 at a strike rate of 67 from 65 matches when sabbir who has played half the matches averages pretty much the same but strikes at 95. So imrul has 2 ODI centuries, I reckon if you give sabbir 65 matches batting in the same position then he'll play at least 2 big innings at a higher strike rate (imrul has played the vast majority of his innings as opener and a small amount at 3, sabbir has been shuffled all through the order in 5 different positions).
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Last edited by Gowza; April 1, 2017 at 06:42 PM..
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  #827  
Old April 1, 2017, 06:57 PM
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BengaliPagol BengaliPagol is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gowza
Reality is imrul has a ODI average of 29 at a strike rate of 67 from 65 matches when sabbir who has played half the matches averages pretty much the same but strikes at 95. So imrul has 2 ODI centuries, I reckon if you give sabbir 65 matches batting in the same position then he'll play at least 2 big innings at a higher strike rate (imrul has played the vast majority of his innings as opener and a small amount at 3, sabbir has been shuffled all through the order in 5 different positions).
that comparison isn't fair at all. Firstly we need to take into account recent scores and recent performances hence why someone like Mominul got dropped from tests despite his great overall stats. Secondly your painting an unfair picture as if Imrul played 65 odis continuously as an opener and never ever got dropped in the process ever. Whereas the fact of the matter is that Imrul got dropped a few times when he underperformed and came back into the national team when he impressed in domestics. So it was a stop start type international career.

For example Mominul has been poor in ODIs with an average of 22 iirc. If he makes a comeback into the ODI team and only take into account his games he plays after his comeback and from those games averages 45 which makes his overall average become something like 33 id be more than happy to ignore that average of 22 and just take it as if he is averaging 45. Because firstly he had a stop start ODI career and secondly it is about recent performances.

Hence we have to take into consideration recent performances and recent matches. Imrul making his comeback has scored many hundreds be it in tests and odis whereas Sabbir hasn't at all. But yes you have a point that Sabbir batted lower down the order so he hasn't had the opportunity. I agree to some extent. But my point is that Sabbir has never showed he can be the big long innings type batsman whether it be in domestics or internationals. I know for him its a mentality thing because he has class to take on any bowling. But he hasn't showed any type of development with his temperament at all.

Despite Imrul's stop start international career we saw lot of glimpses of him having the ability to play a long innings if need be i.e. ODI World Cup in BD, 90 odd against Aus and other instances. Imrul had also showed in domestics that he can play long innings because he was killing it in NCL. Whereas as I am reiterating Sabbir doesn't play long innings and hasn't proved it either in domestics or in international cricket. And you need someone who can play long innings at such a crucial position at #3 in ODIs.
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  #828  
Old April 1, 2017, 07:29 PM
Gowza Gowza is offline
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It's unfair no matter what comparing imrul to sabbir, sabbir has been all over the order, imrul hasn't, there is an age difference and also sabbir is still very much in the early stages of his career, imrul is quite clearly mid career.

Every player has a different career but comparisons have to be made to pick the best team. Imrul has his good points, I'm merely supporting sabbir's side of the argument which will of course mean pointing out imrul's weaknesses (since he was brought into the conversation).
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  #829  
Old April 1, 2017, 07:42 PM
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BengaliPagol BengaliPagol is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gowza
It's unfair no matter what comparing imrul to sabbir, sabbir has been all over the order, imrul hasn't, there is an age difference and also sabbir is still very much in the early stages of his career, imrul is quite clearly mid career.

Every player has a different career but comparisons have to be made to pick the best team. Imrul has his good points, I'm merely supporting sabbir's side of the argument which will of course mean pointing out imrul's weaknesses (since he was brought into the conversation).
fair enough i acknowledge that. I really do wish Sabbir can have a solid temperament. Because he has shades of Kohli in him if he knows exactly what he is doing. He just needs to become alot more cricketing smart and out think the bowler. Has too much talent not to be averaging 40.
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  #830  
Old April 1, 2017, 09:10 PM
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Eshen Eshen is offline
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At age of 25, most fans here had written off Imrul. I guess it's a sign of maturity that they are now making the argument for Sabbir, who is stuck with a 29 List-A average at the same age, that he is still young, has potential to grow.

Anyway, instead of looking so much at past or future, I think the team management should focus more on present forms. At present, there is a day and night difference between consistency that Imrul and Sabbir shows respectively.

With Sabbir, it will be always a roller coaster ride. Also, he never scores enough to win a match by himself. It's more like he scores a good innings once in a blue moon to support someone else to win a match. The #3 role is for someone who is very likely to lead the batting side to wins every now and then, not for someone who is only good enough for a supporting role on his best days.
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  #831  
Old April 1, 2017, 11:58 PM
Gowza Gowza is offline
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Imrul's main issue is strike rate, also he hasn't managed to get his average above 30 those two things combined are worrying because if he's striking at under 80 then his average should be much higher otherwise it's holding the team back. He's scored a couple of centuries but so has riyad...
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  #832  
Old April 2, 2017, 06:34 AM
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Holden Holden is offline
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We need to be playing our best batsmen at the top of the order, I think it's obvious that they are Tamim, Soumya, Mushfiqur and Shakib. I would have them bat in that order. Then the likes of Sabbir, Mosaddek, Riyad/Nasir, can follow. Imrul can be backup opener.
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  #833  
Old April 2, 2017, 12:37 PM
shoibboshach shoibboshach is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eshen
At age of 25, most fans here had written off Imrul. I guess it's a sign of maturity that they are now making the argument for Sabbir, who is stuck with a 29 List-A average at the same age, that he is still young, has potential to grow.

Anyway, instead of looking so much at past or future, I think the team management should focus more on present forms. At present, there is a day and night difference between consistency that Imrul and Sabbir shows respectively.

With Sabbir, it will be always a roller coaster ride. Also, he never scores enough to win a match by himself. It's more like he scores a good innings once in a blue moon to support someone else to win a match. The #3 role is for someone who is very likely to lead the batting side to wins every now and then, not for someone who is only good enough for a supporting role on his best days.
I highly doubt Imrul is only 25. I think he is almost 30. Imrul like most BD cricketers has limited ability to become better with time and lacks cricketing intelligence. He was never a talented player like Shakib, Tamim, Mushfiq or an young Miraz. Therefore, I don't foresee a bright future for the like of Imrul.

As for Sabbir, clearly the lad is hugely talented and gifted. We have seen some bright glimpses of that in international matches and in the BPL. Someone like Sabbir would have excelled in an Australian or similar established cricketing cultures. They would have groomed, mentored and managed him much better. Instead, in BD cricketers are poorly managed or mentored. Most of these kids are young and not intelligent enough to be able to work out what is best for them or their profession. With a slight bit of success or fame the let go of themselves. Look what has happened to Jubair the leggie. This lad was monstrously talented...much more than Rashid Khan or anyone else I have recently seen. Where is he now?

A N0.3 batsman isn't born; he is usually made. Specialist cricketers are identified early, groomed and then made to go through a process to become that future success. BCB falls well short here. Obviously, the cricketer himself has to be talented, intelligent, hard working and highly motivated. I see a glimpse of all these qualities in Mehedi Hasan. Generally, our cricketers and administrators lack cricketing knowledge and intelligence. And I don't think it will change very soon. So, we must make good of what we have.
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  #834  
Old April 2, 2017, 04:49 PM
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tiger1000 tiger1000 is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shoibboshach
I highly doubt Imrul is only 25. I think he is almost 30. Imrul like most BD cricketers has limited ability to become better with time and lacks cricketing intelligence. He was never a talented player like Shakib, Tamim, Mushfiq or an young Miraz. Therefore, I don't foresee a bright future for the like of Imrul.

As for Sabbir, clearly the lad is hugely talented and gifted. We have seen some bright glimpses of that in international matches and in the BPL. Someone like Sabbir would have excelled in an Australian or similar established cricketing cultures. They would have groomed, mentored and managed him much better. Instead, in BD cricketers are poorly managed or mentored. Most of these kids are young and not intelligent enough to be able to work out what is best for them or their profession. With a slight bit of success or fame the let go of themselves. Look what has happened to Jubair the leggie. This lad was monstrously talented...much more than Rashid Khan or anyone else I have recently seen. Where is he now?

A N0.3 batsman isn't born; he is usually made. Specialist cricketers are identified early, groomed and then made to go through a process to become that future success. BCB falls well short here. Obviously, the cricketer himself has to be talented, intelligent, hard working and highly motivated. I see a glimpse of all these qualities in Mehedi Hasan. Generally, our cricketers and administrators lack cricketing knowledge and intelligence. And I don't think it will change very soon. So, we must make good of what we have.
Imrul is 30, he's massively improved in the last few years, and he has matured really well, he's shown great improvement
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  #835  
Old April 3, 2017, 01:56 AM
shoibboshach shoibboshach is offline
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Yes, Imrul is doing better in the ODIs. Interestingly, he is averaging over 52 with a SR close to 80 in the last 9 ODIs. But, his improvement in the longer version isn't massive by any stretch of the imagination. He has scored only four scores above 50 in his last sixteen innings. His FC average is still in the mid 30s after 90 matches.
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  #836  
Old April 3, 2017, 02:18 AM
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They are two batsmen in our lineup who are absolutely fearless-no matter who the opposition is. Their modus operandi is always to take the game to the opposition. Number 1 is Shakib, number 2 is Shabbir.

For that very reason we need to persist with Shabbir. He goofed up in the third ODI, but the way he was going about in the first ODI is indicative of how dominating he can be as a batsman.

Imrul's position in the team should be the 2nd openers slot. Currently Soumya is hogging on to that, but then Soumya must also be told he needs to convert the 30's into big knocks.
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  #837  
Old April 3, 2017, 02:28 AM
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Jadukor Jadukor is offline
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I don't like the witch-hunt on various players every time we lose a game. The opposition also play to win and on some days they will play better than our team. Full credit to Sri Lanka for the way they bounced back. I thought the fielding was exceptional in the last game. I wish our fans would just digest that we got outplayed and move on. For the next couple of years ideally I would like to see the same team with a few changes here and there according to format. The seniors need to be put on notice if they do not play with responsibility but we need to allow the likes of Shabbir, Soumya, Miraz, Mosaddek etc room to grow.
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  #838  
Old April 3, 2017, 05:12 AM
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tiger1000 tiger1000 is online now
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I'll drop Ullah

Tamim
Sarkar
Imrul/mominul
Mushfiq
Shakib
Sabbir
Nasir
Mehedi
Mashrafe
Taskin
Mustafizur

That's a better team in odis 60 overs in the bowling
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  #839  
Old April 3, 2017, 12:59 PM
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ahnaf ahnaf is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeesh
They are two batsmen in our lineup who are absolutely fearless-no matter who the opposition is. Their modus operandi is always to take the game to the opposition. Number 1 is Shakib, number 2 is Shabbir.

For that very reason we need to persist with Shabbir. He goofed up in the third ODI, but the way he was going about in the first ODI is indicative of how dominating he can be as a batsman.

Imrul's position in the team should be the 2nd openers slot. Currently Soumya is hogging on to that, but then Soumya must also be told he needs to convert the 30's into big knocks.
but there is a reason he still stuck with a avg of 30ish. And that goes back into the domestic circuits too. He never avg.ed anything around 40 in any format of the game. ( Heck i even doubt if he managed to do that for a domestic season one or two. I might be wrong though ) Be that domestic or international. Thats says something. I have no problem if he stays at 7 like this. But if he is to persist with at no.3, than he has to show some change.

Hypothetical theory or talent only can buy you some times. And he is not the first guy to come play for us with abundance amount of talent but not enough output show for.
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  #840  
Old April 3, 2017, 01:23 PM
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Yes he needs to stay longer and score more runs at #4 (than he is doing currently). But its still too early to say he is a failure or to drop him. We need to stay little bit longer otherwise he will lose his slot in future.... I hope he understand that he is missing opportunities.
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  #841  
Old April 3, 2017, 03:03 PM
Roy_1 Roy_1 is offline
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Soumya and Shabbir should be persisted with no matter what IMHO, when they get going they look class apart
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  #842  
Old April 3, 2017, 08:49 PM
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BengaliPagol BengaliPagol is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ahnaf
but there is a reason he still stuck with a avg of 30ish. And that goes back into the domestic circuits too. He never avg.ed anything around 40 in any format of the game. ( Heck i even doubt if he managed to do that for a domestic season one or two. I might be wrong though ) Be that domestic or international. Thats says something. I have no problem if he stays at 7 like this. But if he is to persist with at no.3, than he has to show some change.

Hypothetical theory or talent only can buy you some times. And he is not the first guy to come play for us with abundance amount of talent but not enough output show for.
exactly. Even if Sabbir averaged 20 in LOIs in domestics I wouldn't care if he showed a slight change in temperament in the international scene. But he has been in the international scene for some time now and I haven't seen any change in temperament. He needs to be more smarter and proactive about his batting. I can see a change in someone like Soumya after his poor form not too long ago. Same goes for someone like Mehedi as well with his batting. But i haven't seen it from Sabbir. #3 is such a crucial position in the team. Essentially it is the slot for the best batsman in the team.
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  #843  
Old April 4, 2017, 10:31 PM
jeesh jeesh is online now
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Very true ahnaf and BengaliPagol. No player should take their place for granted.

Number 3 is indeed a key spot, love the way Kusal Mendis is contributing for SL.

Sabbir has all the attributes to do much more than the likes of Mendis. But doesnt place value on wicket. Like last night, had he run straight he would have made it-debatable. But these little little things are letting him down.
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  #844  
Old April 5, 2017, 02:19 AM
adamnsu adamnsu is online now
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Shabbir needs to work on his communication skills when running between the wicket.

Also he needs to be blasted for not diving
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