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  #1  
Old February 25, 2011, 09:16 PM
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Ian Pont Ian Pont is offline
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Default Fast bowling expectations

I just wanted to say something to BD fans about our pace attack.

Firstly, it is GOOD. I really understand the desire to bowl spin all the time and the reliance on spin all the time. But we have swing and reverse swing bowlers in Shafiul and Rubel who can do well if they are giving the backing and opportunity. We saw Shafiul bowl us to victory last night against Ireland and witnessed Rubel being the best bowler against India.

Nazmul, who KEEPS missing out, is the best slower ball bowler I have seen and mixes his pace up well on slow, low pitches like we have seen at Mirpur.

So I wanted to just say to you all that we do have options with our bowlers and certainly are not one-dimensional.

The only way our quicks gets better is by giving them the credit and opportunities to perform. When they get it, they have not usually let us down.

SWING and ability to change the pace of deliveries and the length, is a key component for a pace attack. The three lads we have are all skilled and learning each day.

We are the only country in this world cup so hung up on spin. So this is a shout out to fans for our pace department....
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  #2  
Old February 25, 2011, 09:27 PM
amar11432 amar11432 is offline
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Wonderful and exciting pace attack today. Good job Coach and Safiul.
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  #3  
Old February 25, 2011, 09:36 PM
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I hope you also get to work with Mashrafee, Shahadat and Rasel. We need a senior pace bowler at least to guide the younger bowlers during the game.

I do not think our pace attack is in par even with the West Indies yet. Hope you can also teach the bowlers the mental game of cricket.
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  #4  
Old February 25, 2011, 09:42 PM
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RBX and Shafiul both are our future star along with Nazmul. Though, Nazmul is the most underrated pacer in our team IMO. From now on we should include all these three in our coming all away series.
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  #5  
Old February 25, 2011, 09:43 PM
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Yes indeed we under-rate our fast bowlers so much.

We always forget that our fast bowlers were crucial in our big wins

For example

Mash/Tapash/Nazmul vs Aus @ Cardiff
Mash vs India
Syed Rasel and Mash vs NZ 2009
Rubel Hossain, mash, mahbubul vs Sri Lanka
Nazmul honorary mention for having Sri Lanka 6-4
Shafiul/Mash/Rubel vs England 2010
Rubel hossain vs NZ 2010

People @ BC always forget, that we win matches, when the seamers are making breakthroughs put the batsmen under early pressure, where they are then choked by the spinners.

We only have two world class spinners Shakib and Razzak (not the best form)
Two good spinners Riyad and Shuvo
And a part timer (containing spinner) Naeem

We can only count on using three of the above, using anymore is a waste
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  #6  
Old February 25, 2011, 09:45 PM
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we aren't the chokers we used to be...and Shafiul is quite good bowling at the death (as is Rubel). they will have their bad days and will come across great batting sides on pancake flat wickets like against India. as long as we win games, thats what counts.
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  #7  
Old February 25, 2011, 09:53 PM
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one huge improvement is that we r closing out games..not only this game but als the game vs eng where we won and the nz series..
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  #8  
Old February 25, 2011, 10:09 PM
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Shafiul's 3rd spell was a dream. I don't think he could have done this 6 months back. Thank you, Ian.

We arguably have the best spinning attack of the world, but our pace attack is no slouch. In fact, I am very hopeful of our pace attack becoming one of the best in the world. Rubel, Shafiul, and Nazmul all have shown promise and are continuing to improve. Keep up the good work.
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  #9  
Old February 26, 2011, 02:37 AM
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I have a question for you, Ian. I could have asked you in the question and answer thread, but this thread seems to match the topic more.

We all would love to see you and Julien working long time with our team after the world cup. I am in doubt about what BCB have done about this so far. In case, if you leave us after the tournament, our pace bowlers will be guide less again. I am not sure if we could get another bowling coach as good as you.

My concern is about grooming up a group of potential pace bowlers ( say short listed 12) with long term coaching. Can you enlighten us with your valuable thoughts about these....

  • What should be the planning for long term for supplying enough bowlers to the national side?
  • What kind of campaigns should be done to spot young talented bowlers?
  • How to handle young talents? Unfortunately we don't have any pace bowler in the team above 26/27 years of age right now. We lost them due to injury problem.
  • Any suggestion to follow for long term coaching in the national side?

I would more than be happy we can keep you with us for a long and longer time.

Finally CHEERS for yesterday's victory.
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  #10  
Old February 26, 2011, 02:59 AM
Dilscoop Dilscoop is offline
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I think you will like my XI-combo, and I'd love to see this happen on the next game. > http://www.banglacricket.com/alochon...=1#post1284251

Our over reliance on our spin can really become a weakness from our strength. Shakib and Razzk along with only ONE part timer from Ash or Naeem or Riyad or Shuvo, is good enough. There is no point in playing 2-3 of them and waste Nazmul.

Last edited by Dilscoop; February 26, 2011 at 03:05 AM..
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  #11  
Old February 26, 2011, 03:27 AM
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Ian Pont Ian Pont is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WarWolf
I have a question for you, Ian. I could have asked you in the question and answer thread, but this thread seems to match the topic more.

We all would love to see you and Julien working long time with our team after the world cup. I am in doubt about what BCB have done about this so far. In case, if you leave us after the tournament, our pace bowlers will be guide less again. I am not sure if we could get another bowling coach as good as you.

My concern is about grooming up a group of potential pace bowlers ( say short listed 12) with long term coaching. Can you enlighten us with your valuable thoughts about these....

  • What should be the planning for long term for supplying enough bowlers to the national side?
  • What kind of campaigns should be done to spot young talented bowlers?
  • How to handle young talents? Unfortunately we don't have any pace bowler in the team above 26/27 years of age right now. We lost them due to injury problem.
  • Any suggestion to follow for long term coaching in the national side?

I would more than be happy we can keep you with us for a long and longer time.

Finally CHEERS for yesterday's victory.
You can always have a sponsored scholarship scheme to send promising quicks to me in the UK.. I coach players from around the world through my business www.maverickscricket.com
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  #12  
Old February 26, 2011, 04:35 AM
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when Nazmul started his career i really liked him. he, to me was a slower version of javagal srinath.

nazmul used to bowl wide from the crease pitching the ball on a very good length and some in swing. the ball pitched outside off and with angle and swing was always heading towards the off stump. but occasionaly he was able to apply outswing and that puzzled the batsmen.

his problem to me was he was too consistent with line and length and very little variation of pace at that stage of his career. so once batsman got used to his length and pace used to come down the wicket and play his deliveries on the ball. nazmul could not cope with that and with no plan B used to struggle.

later i saw him lose his ability to swing the ball that much though he now has developed the skills of varying pace. also some injuries have harmed his development.

i know the BD fans now expect shafiul and rubel to do good because the have more pace and talent than any other BD bowler ever but i feel nazmul can also be a very good bowler with some proper guidance and chance.

i HOPE u can contribute to aid his developmet
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  #13  
Old February 26, 2011, 04:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian Pont
Nazmul, who KEEPS missing out, is the best slower ball bowler I have seen and mixes his pace up well on slow, low pitches like we have seen at Mirpur.
Should Rubel have been rested for the Ireland game while Nazmul getting a nod?
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  #14  
Old February 26, 2011, 05:01 AM
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Ian Pont Ian Pont is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZeeshanM
Should Rubel have been rested for the Ireland game while Nazmul getting a nod?
Why not play three different pacers like everyone else in the world does? You don't have to 'rest' anyone do you? The top teams don't pack with spinners. THREE OR FOUR spinners is overkill, and clearly plenty!

A fast bowler can swing, reverse, bowl yorkers, bouncers, change of pace and seam the ball (SIX main weapons). A spinner can spin the ball or drift it (TWO main weapons).

I feel BD has for too long shut out pace bowlers as a basic requirement of the team's bowling weaponry. We got bogged down even by IRELAND's pacers when they took off the pace.

Without Shafiul's swing the Ireland result could have been FAR different. In the first TWO WC matches our pace bowlers (Rubel and now Shafiul) have been our best.

People start to believe the hype surrounding spin if they hear it often enough. But the Mirpur pitch is low and slow, with not much turn anyway - far harder to hit a pacer using the SIX weapons I mention above....

I believe the previous bowling coach said the same thing - and he was right!
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  #15  
Old February 26, 2011, 05:07 AM
Dilscoop Dilscoop is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian Pont
Why not play three different pacers like everyone else in the world does? You don't have to 'rest' anyone do you? The top teams don't pack with spinners. THREE OR FOUR spinners is overkill, and clearly plenty!
I think it would be better if you talk to the management, selectors or the head coach about it. Zeeshan Mahmud can't really do anything about it. And you'd be shocked to know that, some here want a one pace attack for the next game.
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  #16  
Old February 26, 2011, 05:07 AM
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I have always maintained with the luxury of having a true all-rounder such as Shakib, we should absolutely play 3 pacers at all times. We have at least 2 bits and pieces spinners in between Naeem, Ash & Riyadh and a lovely specialist in Razzak. What more do we need?
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  #17  
Old February 26, 2011, 05:51 AM
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Thanks Coach for pointing that out...The funny thing is,, it only started probably few years ago when we suddenly thought that we will have full spin attack. Probably it started with back to back matches against the Zimbabwans or Kenyans who were weak against spin. We always had 3 pacers be it Farahd Reza, Shujon, Mushfiqur Rahman, Tarez Aziz. I mean we always had that 3rd seamer pretty much all the time. The selectors would always prefer that the 3rd seamer be an allrounder..Its only when Farhad left for ICL, we didnt have any other medium pacers ( as we call them) in the pool and started this laughable argument that 'We dont need one'. And by that time, with the success with Rafique, Enamul Haque Jr.,Razzaque, Shakib, Mehrab Jr., we became a 'SLA Nation'.

I agree with the coach.. no other country, I mean even Srilanka, India or even Pakistan has this peculiar strategy that spin bowling is the way to go 80% with their strong spin history.

The current selectors are under the illusion that since spin is our strength, we should go for all spin option, be it left or leg or offie. They forgot that, many of our match winners of Bangladesh has been actually the pacers. Be it Forhad Reza, Shahadat, Khaled Mahmud Shujon or Masrafee Mortaza, Shafiul.. The selectors mindset is not only miopic but it is dangerous as it feeds the frenzy and now the national team or the A team has no 3rd seamers who actually features in regular XI for the last 4 years!!

If we want to be a world class side, we must have 5 bowlers and have 3 pacers. That has been the formula for all the champions. This flirting around 50-50 with part timers wont work against Australia or South Africa like teams. The sooner we start to realize this basic truth, the better off we will be. But I am pretty sure we have to wait until these selectors are gone!!
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  #18  
Old February 26, 2011, 05:55 AM
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I agree with Ian Pont, I want to start playing with three seamers not two
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  #19  
Old February 26, 2011, 06:19 AM
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I always believed one should always pick their best 4[or 5] bowlers, regardless of the conditions. Look at Australia, they haven't packed their team with spinners, they have picked a bowling line up which consists the best bowlers in the country.
Bangladesh should also follow that, if three pacers come in the top 5 bowlers in the country, then they should definitely be picked. And if it is three spinners that come in the top 5, then we should play three spinners.
I do not know how Ian rates the bowlers, but I would think our best 4 bowlers are Shakib, Razzak, Shafiul and Rubel. If Nazmul is the 5th best bowler in the country than he should be picked and given chances, otherwise spinners like Shuvo, Nayeem, Saqlain, Nur Hossain should be picked.
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Old February 26, 2011, 06:31 AM
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Well, the spinners does check the runrate on BD pitch. Pacers leak runs to the opposition top order is a fact. BD pacers are not yet good enough unless we score 270+ runs regularly. This is the big reason why we play 2 pacers to bring the result I guess.
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Old February 26, 2011, 06:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beshideshi
I always believed one should always pick their best 4[or 5] bowlers, regardless of the conditions. Look at Australia, they haven't packed their team with spinners, they have picked a bowling line up which consists the best bowlers in the country.
Bangladesh should also follow that, if three pacers come in the top 5 bowlers in the country, then they should definitely be picked. And if it is three spinners that come in the top 5, then we should play three spinners.
I do not know how Ian rates the bowlers, but I would think our best 4 bowlers are Shakib, Razzak, Shafiul and Rubel. If Nazmul is the 5th best bowler in the country than he should be picked and given chances, otherwise spinners like Shuvo, Nayeem, Saqlain, Nur Hossain should be picked.
My own personal views are probably not relevant to be honest. I don't select the teams or have any influence over that selection. This is down to the Head Coach to advise accordingly.

But let me say the only way to develop our pacers is to play them. We all know Mashrafee's skills and you may be pleased to hear that Shahadat has increased his pace recently and bowled very aggressively in our slow, low nets at Mirpur (he hit Musfiq on the shoulder with a quick bouncer).

I have been impressed with some young quicks like left-armer Emon and pace bowler Rabbi and I like Robin. Syed Rasel has super control but it out of favour.

I could probably come up with 12 names of pacers who I could spend time with and develop into international players at the level Shafiul and Rubel are starting to perform at. However, would it just mean 12 more frustrated quicks also not getting a game?
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Old February 26, 2011, 06:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PoorFan
Well, the spinners does check the runrate on BD pitch. Pacers leak runs to the opposition top order is a fact. BD pacers are not yet good enough unless we score 270+ runs regularly. This is the big reason why we play 2 pacers to bring the result I guess.
Not since I arrived... the quicks haven't leaked runs as a unit compared to the spin bowlers in the NZ and Zim series? That is not a fact at all.

It might have happened previously, but the quicks were not getting any specialist help at all when I got here. Add to that they are pretty much overlooked and lacking in confidence and you can start to see we have created our own situation.

It's easy to break - play the quicks, back them and let them lead the attack. Our boys have learned a great deal quickly. Be patient with them. When I first met Dale Steyn he had started out as an inaccurate pacer.... now look at him. Let's give our boys some backing because they always bowl up front in the 2 men out PP which is the toughest.
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  #23  
Old February 26, 2011, 06:44 AM
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Coach, I think you are being a bit naive here. No matter how many great players we have, we can only play a few. I mean whats the point of having 10 pacers when only 2-3 can play. Even considering injury, we only need a max of 6 pacers at any time. And I don't know what you guys see, but shafiul still has a long time to go. I would rather us having 3 great pacers rather then 10 good ones. I have heard a lot about emon and rabbi even, and expect them to come out great. But I don't expect both of them to play since nazmul is still waiting in line. Also, since all our pacers are young, I expect that Shafiul may be dropped later on if 2-3 better pacers may come along. Thats how it goes. We cannot play everyone, especially at the grandest stage. However, I might be a bit biased because supporting Bangladesh, we usually rely on spinners a lot more.
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  #24  
Old February 26, 2011, 06:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by soccer20reverse
Coach, I think you are being a bit naive here. No matter how many great players we have, we can only play a few. I mean whats the point of having 10 pacers when only 2-3 can play. Even considering injury, we only need a max of 6 pacers at any time. And I don't know what you guys see, but shafiul still has a long time to go. I would rather us having 3 great pacers rather then 10 good ones. I have heard a lot about emon and rabbi even, and expect them to come out great. But I don't expect both of them to play since nazmul is still waiting in line. Also, since all our pacers are young, I expect that Shafiul may be dropped later on if 2-3 better pacers may come along. Thats how it goes. We cannot play everyone, especially at the grandest stage. However, I might be a bit biased because supporting Bangladesh, we usually rely on spinners a lot more.
Then I might as well pack up and go home... plus as a fast bowling development coach, I have never been called naive before... hahahaha.

But let me tell you what IS naive - thinking you can simply dominate world cricket with spin. Either batting or pace bowling dominates world cricket - NEVER spin. So if your plan is to play spinners then BD will sadly never be a world force, and that's a fact.

The reason you have quicks is that 4 or 5 will be great ODI bowlers and some will end up be being great TEST bowlers. Some will do both but it adds up to probably 8 or 9 nationally. And quicks get injured.

Domestic cricket also benefits from having 10-12 really good quicks.

Some of the young quicks will never make it and some might. You ID a dozen of them and hope you get 4 or 5 who can cut it. This takes time and as you identify, Shafiul and Rubel are works in progress. I haven't had them for long!

But please don't be so harsh with our quicks. they are young and learning fast, and haven't had much help by the look of things.

And a PS for you: I am gonna make a prediction. Shafiul Islam will turn out to be the best BD quick in modern times. He reminds me of a slower version of Dale Steyn. I appreciate you have an armchair opinion on cricket so I cut you some slack. But don't swallow all the spoon fed hype you get told about spin in BD. India and Pakistan didn't have too many problems with our spinners.

Last edited by Ian Pont; February 26, 2011 at 07:06 AM..
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  #25  
Old February 26, 2011, 06:56 AM
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I think playing three pacers in our pitches is a luxury we cannot afford in the immediate future. Once, we unearth another bowler like Mashrafee and Shafi, Rubel, Naz et el master the line and length, swing and control and the captain can totally rely on thier performance, only then it becomes a realistic proposition. But, we might be ready for that in greenish pitches in Khulna/Bogra if they host any ODI.

Ian,
You have mentioned spin and drift as the main weapons of the spinners. What about 'flight' or does it fall under drift?
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