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  #1  
Old November 23, 2014, 09:23 AM
MHRAM MHRAM is offline
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Default So what's going wrong with Zimbabwe

Noticed that after the frst test, Zimbabwe looked to be in good position to win/draw the match but they end up falling apart in the end.

What do you folks think?

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  #2  
Old November 23, 2014, 09:28 AM
jeesh jeesh is offline
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Same thing that happens to us when we tour there, except we come back with at least a win or two.
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  #3  
Old November 23, 2014, 09:29 AM
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caution: choking hazard.
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  #4  
Old November 23, 2014, 09:35 AM
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Don't have time to think about them...
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  #5  
Old November 23, 2014, 11:06 AM
Donal C Donal C is offline
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Team full of average players, being treated terribly by their board and they simply arent that good.

After the world cup, if as some are saying Taylor and others call it a day, you'll see Zimbabwe on the brink of becoming an Associate IMO.

Domestic players are rumoured to be going on strike again soon, and Ervine and Co. are clearly coming back purely for the world cup and then packing it in again.

That and they've gotten into this losing habit on this tour, so odds are they just want to get this tour finished with asap
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  #6  
Old November 23, 2014, 12:25 PM
MHRAM MHRAM is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Donal C
Team full of average players, being treated terribly by their board and they simply arent that good.

After the world cup, if as some are saying Taylor and others call it a day, you'll see Zimbabwe on the brink of becoming an Associate IMO.

Domestic players are rumoured to be going on strike again soon, and Ervine and Co. are clearly coming back purely for the world cup and then packing it in again.

That and they've gotten into this losing habit on this tour, so odds are they just want to get this tour finished with asap
That is very sad. With every passing day they have been heading in the same direction as Kenya.

I guess Zimbabwe is not alone. One day the entire sport will eventually lose popularity and very little money will be coming in.

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  #7  
Old November 23, 2014, 12:55 PM
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You know you are in trouble when BD team beats you this convincingly. I thought we were at least 30 runs short. A proper team would have burried us today.
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  #8  
Old November 23, 2014, 01:00 PM
Dilscoop Dilscoop is offline
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We're 2-and-everything this season. We have enough problems of our own. I could careless about their problems.
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  #9  
Old November 23, 2014, 01:01 PM
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Noting's wrong with them. They beat Pakistan in a test match not so long ago. Everybody suffer's when they tour the subcontinent.

This thread will look really condescending if Zimbabwe wins a couple of ODI's.
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  #10  
Old November 23, 2014, 02:19 PM
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Totally agree with Ashfaq. Its like Bernard Lewis's "whats wrong with Islam" approach. Zim has a set of very promising players to go with Taylor, Ervine, Chigu and Hammi. Any side who has the capability of beating Aus or Pak is not a bad side. Bangladesh, with the return of Shakib, will give anyone a run for their money (so to speak) in home conditions. With the arrival of Momin, Taijul and Jubair we are even more formidable now.

Yes, Zim board must resolve all those issues with the players. They need to see to this urgently for the future of their cricket.
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  #11  
Old November 23, 2014, 02:44 PM
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Zimb cricket prob won't last for very long. Lack of support, lack of public interest, lack of funding, lack of skills.
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  #12  
Old November 23, 2014, 03:04 PM
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al Furqaan al Furqaan is offline
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Zim cricket is like Ottoman turkey. Eventually they will collapse...the hope is the ICC will finally intervene but that's a crap shoot. The more likely scenario is that a collapse will be a cathartic process and will allow them to build a proper ZC in future. How long that takes is anyone's guess.

Apart from that, Zim isn't a real tragedy because they have no fanbase. Whites only make up 1% of their population and blacks don't give a hoot about the game.

I post at ZCF, their forum, regularly (not just during a BD series) and I was stunned to find out that 90% of their members and 90% of their posts are from non-Zimbabweans. Its like if BC was filled with gowzas.

They have no interest in the game, and there isn't much separating them from Associates like AFG or IRE. in fact, many associates (AFG, IRE, NEP, PNG) have a lot more interest in cricket than ZIM does.
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  #13  
Old November 23, 2014, 03:07 PM
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al Furqaan al Furqaan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Donal C
Team full of average players, being treated terribly by their board and they simply arent that good.

After the world cup, if as some are saying Taylor and others call it a day, you'll see Zimbabwe on the brink of becoming an Associate IMO.

Domestic players are rumoured to be going on strike again soon, and Ervine and Co. are clearly coming back purely for the world cup and then packing it in again.

That and they've gotten into this losing habit on this tour, so odds are they just want to get this tour finished with asap
Where did u get the info about Taylor and co quitting? If Taylor leaves, playing ZIM will be a huge waste of time. They're about to get swept 8-0 with their current leading players. And a few years ago we would beat them 4-1 even in ZIM. if they lose their current leaders our u-19 team would be competitive with them!
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  #14  
Old November 23, 2014, 03:08 PM
brockley brockley is offline
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Zimbabwe cricket fine in tests,lost away from home.
Two factors in one dayers.
1 away from home,spinners designation.
2 not good record in one dayers despite beating australia,drew with afghanistan series,and i think ireland has won 2 out of 3 last games with 1 being a draw.
No surpise they will probably not go to sharjah.
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  #15  
Old November 23, 2014, 03:09 PM
brockley brockley is offline
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On taylor counties are hoping to sign him to a kolpak contract,like jarvis,interesting to see what he does.
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  #16  
Old November 23, 2014, 03:10 PM
Donal C Donal C is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by al Furqaan
Where did u get the info about Taylor and co quitting? If Taylor leaves, playing ZIM will be a huge waste of time. They're about to get swept 8-0 with their current leading players. And a few years ago we would beat them 4-1 even in ZIM. if they lose their current leaders our u-19 team would be competitive with them!
Well Ervine and all the returning guys are only in it for the world cup (pretty obvious).

I'm basing my views on Taylor on what the Zimbos on ZCF are saying anf it does make sense. The guy has a family and kid tp support now, hes in his 30s IIRC so hes not getting younger and its unlikely that there will be much left in Zim when he retires. He'd walk into many county sides as well as some t20 leagues so they feel he'll call it a day after the WC. He cant afford to be paid late anymore
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  #17  
Old November 23, 2014, 03:18 PM
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al Furqaan al Furqaan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Donal C
Well Ervine and all the returning guys are only in it for the world cup (pretty obvious).

I'm basing my views on Taylor on what the Zimbos on ZCF are saying anf it does make sense. The guy has a family and kid tp support now, hes in his 30s IIRC so hes not getting younger and its unlikely that there will be much left in Zim when he retires. He'd walk into many county sides as well as some t20 leagues so they feel he'll call it a day after the WC. He cant afford to be paid late anymore
I hope you're wrong. Taylor was in the IPL last year and didn't play a single game. Or he did and played like Ash. He won't get a BBL deal either. CPL maybe, county yes. But he can play t20 leagues and still play for zim. Zim hardly have Intl fixtures. Hamilton wouldn't get a deal anywhere except BPL, CPL if he's extremely lucky. Same with williams, panny and chatara. The rest of the players aren't even good enough for Irish club cricket.

Zim are a synergistic side...together they somehow magically manage to play better than sum of their individual talents. Opposite of BD. We have the talent of being a 5/6th ranked side and underachieve to sit firmly at 9th.
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  #18  
Old November 23, 2014, 03:46 PM
Donal C Donal C is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by al Furqaan
I hope you're wrong. Taylor was in the IPL last year and didn't play a single game. Or he did and played like Ash. He won't get a BBL deal either. CPL maybe, county yes. But he can play t20 leagues and still play for zim. Zim hardly have Intl fixtures. Hamilton wouldn't get a deal anywhere except BPL, CPL if he's extremely lucky. Same with williams, panny and chatara. The rest of the players aren't even good enough for Irish club cricket.

Zim are a synergistic side...together they somehow magically manage to play better than sum of their individual talents. Opposite of BD. We have the talent of being a 5/6th ranked side and underachieve to sit firmly at 9th.
Whats with your hatred of Hammy lol.

Williams would make it in the BPL I wouldve thought, he plays spin so well. Chatara and Panyangara might make it for a county division 2 team.

If my memory serves me correctly, Masakadza actually played in the champions league this year for Barbados.

Must admit I was disappointed with Ervine and the other Zimbos in Irelands Interpros. Waller has been OK, but he can improve. Ervine was solid enough without ever excelling and PJ Moor returned pretty awful figures at club level. You wouldnt think they were test level. Then again Nick Larkin, bar one 200, was similar to Ervine and just recently he got selected for the Sheffield Shield in Aus and hit 124 and 75 in one game for NSW so maybe its just the conditions/weather they struggle with

Back to the point, bottom line is Taylor and co dont want the big bucks they just want a stable decent wage. Something county cricket would offer him and he'd definitely walk into nearly any county team IMO. Zimbabwe as of now have enough money to last till the world cup, and then they might get enough from TV revenue to last another few months. After that though I think the wheels will fall off.

Look at it this way. He could move to England where his family would have better facilities and opportunities, while getting a regular and most likely larger wage and he'd still have time to play in any of the t20 leagues abroad to boot, bar the CPL which clashes with county.

Not to mention he probably knows himself Zimbabwe are on the edge, dont think he wants to stick around when the fall over.
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  #19  
Old November 23, 2014, 04:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Donal C
Whats with your hatred of Hammy lol.

Williams would make it in the BPL I wouldve thought, he plays spin so well. Chatara and Panyangara might make it for a county division 2 team.

If my memory serves me correctly, Masakadza actually played in the champions league this year for Barbados.

Must admit I was disappointed with Ervine and the other Zimbos in Irelands Interpros. Waller has been OK, but he can improve. Ervine was solid enough without ever excelling and PJ Moor returned pretty awful figures at club level. You wouldnt think they were test level. Then again Nick Larkin, bar one 200, was similar to Ervine and just recently he got selected for the Sheffield Shield in Aus and hit 124 and 75 in one game for NSW so maybe its just the conditions/weather they struggle with

Back to the point, bottom line is Taylor and co dont want the big bucks they just want a stable decent wage. Something county cricket would offer him and he'd definitely walk into nearly any county team IMO. Zimbabwe as of now have enough money to last till the world cup, and then they might get enough from TV revenue to last another few months. After that though I think the wheels will fall off.

Look at it this way. He could move to England where his family would have better facilities and opportunities, while getting a regular and most likely larger wage and he'd still have time to play in any of the t20 leagues abroad to boot, bar the CPL which clashes with county.

Not to mention he probably knows himself Zimbabwe are on the edge, dont think he wants to stick around when the fall over.
Hammy is a minnow basher. He averages 30 in tests courtesy of playing BD on flat wickets, and surviving some lbw shouts, edges, and dropped catches. He's got about 200 innings and zero big scores against quality G8 teams. Even Ashraful managed 7 tons!

He will get CPL deal and ride the bench at best. Williams could be a staryer in the CPL but on current form won't make IPL/BBL. Chatara and panny same story. Maybe chakabva and ervine.

Guys like mushangwe, kumgozi, meth, raza, maruma, mutumbami wouldn't even make a county 2nd XI. they punch above their weight esp at home, but their away record, esp in g8 countries paints a telling picture. Mushangwe has potential tho. But so did cremer, who never developed his game.

Jarvis is playing county 2nd XI mostly. Cremer is playing golf cuz he's not good enough even for 2nd XI's.
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  #20  
Old November 23, 2014, 07:05 PM
Donal C Donal C is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by al Furqaan
Hammy is a minnow basher. He averages 30 in tests courtesy of playing BD on flat wickets, and surviving some lbw shouts, edges, and dropped catches. He's got about 200 innings and zero big scores against quality G8 teams. Even Ashraful managed 7 tons!

He will get CPL deal and ride the bench at best. Williams could be a staryer in the CPL but on current form won't make IPL/BBL. Chatara and panny same story. Maybe chakabva and ervine.

Guys like mushangwe, kumgozi, meth, raza, maruma, mutumbami wouldn't even make a county 2nd XI. they punch above their weight esp at home, but their away record, esp in g8 countries paints a telling picture. Mushangwe has potential tho. But so did cremer, who never developed his game.

Jarvis is playing county 2nd XI mostly. Cremer is playing golf cuz he's not good enough even for 2nd XI's.
Yeah Jarvis seems to be struggling but we'll see how this season goes for him.

Cremer is playing golf as hes making more money off it IIRC. He left ZC because of the admin issues.

Agree mostly with the last paragraph except for Raza. Maybe this is me overrating him but I really think he can be a good player.

All in all it paints a sad story of what corruption can do. Really annoys me at how their domestic system has FC status and ours doesnt though
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  #21  
Old November 23, 2014, 08:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Donal C
Yeah Jarvis seems to be struggling but we'll see how this season goes for him.

Cremer is playing golf as hes making more money off it IIRC. He left ZC because of the admin issues.

Agree mostly with the last paragraph except for Raza. Maybe this is me overrating him but I really think he can be a good player.

All in all it paints a sad story of what corruption can do. Really annoys me at how their domestic system has FC status and ours doesnt though
I think if CI wants it to have fc status it can. At least it works that way for test nations. But more important than status is the quality. If Ireland builds a quality setup who cares if its fc or not.

BTW Donal I have 2 imp questions for you, if you know the answers:

1) is CI still planning on applying for full permanent test status by 2020 or is that on hold due to the ICC restructuring?

2) is IRE/associates planning on creating noise about the 2019 world cup format if they spring a few upsets? Suppose AFG/IRE beat a couple g8 teams...it worked last year. Remember such a decision can be overturned. They only scheduled the 2018 qualifier, there hasn't been any ground work to actually hold it.

Is there an Irish forum? There was an afghan one but no one posted and I'm not sure if it even exists anymore?
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  #22  
Old November 23, 2014, 08:26 PM
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Few things had has happen I think.

1. Zimbabwe almost beating in 1st test. We manage to over come that. Which boosted our confidence level game plan. We start to believe.

2. Coach has changed ou r players mindset. Our players learned how to be patient. That is really important and difference between win and lose.

3. When you start to win matches its become a habit.

4. They also have internal issue which really doesn't help

After all we are better team for last 4, 5 years.
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  #23  
Old November 23, 2014, 08:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jadukor
You know you are in trouble when BD team beats you this convincingly. I thought we were at least 30 runs short. A proper team would have burried us today.
I do not think New Zealand could either.
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  #24  
Old November 24, 2014, 01:22 AM
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Way things are going I wouldn't be surprised if Australia and England struggled in our conditions.
All teams these days are tigers at home and pussy cats in different conditions. Aus, Eng, NZ, WI, do well on fast tracks and suck on slow pitches; Ind, Pak, SL, Ban do well on slow pitches and get diarrhea at the thought of playing on fast pitches. SA are probably the only team that can do well in both conditions.
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Old November 24, 2014, 01:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by al Furqaan
I post at ZCF, their forum, regularly (not just during a BD series) and I was stunned to find out that 90% of their members and 90% of their posts are from non-Zimbabweans. Its like if BC was filled with gowzas.
Wait, Gowza isn't Bangladeshi? He seems to know more about our local teams and players than most of us do!
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