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  #1  
Old March 19, 2011, 02:49 PM
abherath abherath is offline
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Default Address the real issues. All is not over for the Tigers.

I tend to agree with people who say here that it is not fair to blame the coaching staff for the unfortunate debacle most Bangladeshi fans are ruing now. This is a case of barking up the wrong tree. Sacking the coach will not get Bangladeshi cricket anywhere.

You have to examine why the team performs so well on a given day and then capitulates into an ignominious defeat soon after.

The talent is definitely there. Then there are also some players who have moved from being brilliant to nothing. (Case in point: I feel sad when I see Ash on TV. Though he is an utter failure now, he did have his days. I will not forget his brilliance against big teams like Australia and Sri Lanka. I think his talent has gone hiding deep inside him.)

It is the same same team that beat England - in no flash in the pan - but folded up meekly against the Windies before that and South Africa after that. On days when the Tigers perform, they look really good, like any other major team.

My humble opinion is that there are problems on the psychological front which need to be handled by counsellors. I remember the Sri Lankan team going through a very bad patch a few years after they had even won the World Cup and how psychological intervention helped them come out of the hole they were in and perform again.

A last word: Please give the Tigers some breathing space. Feel for them. They must be more disappointed than anyone else with the bad loss to South Africa which closed the CWC 2011 door on them. They play the game with great pride and seem to wear their "greens" with national pride. Stand up for them.

After all the CWC is not the be all and end all of cricket. Mark my words. There will be some good performances against the Australians soon.

GO TIGERS ! The whole of South Asia supports you !
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  #2  
Old March 19, 2011, 03:42 PM
6alltheway 6alltheway is offline
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Like I said all along. Bangladesh players have the skill but lack the mentality to carry it through. Sport is 90% in the head and 10% in physical movements. Without psychologically out witting your opponent, you will never win.

Bangladesh need education, education of the mind. I would stop them playing cricket and and just teach them how to think, think under pressure, how to behave under pressure, how to analyse every single ball and play on it's merits. I would teach them how to be mentally tough. If BD wasnt good enough they wouldn't win even 1 match but they do, reason they are so inconsistent is because of their inability to handle a given situation.

Whoever the next coach is, please school our kids before the next team schools them!

After they have learnt this, I would teach them to be better cricketers. Simple fact is if we dont win matches after this. We dont have good enough players. We cant complain.
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  #3  
Old March 19, 2011, 04:31 PM
mij mij is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by abherath
I tend to agree with people who say here that it is not fair to blame the coaching staff for the unfortunate debacle most Bangladeshi fans are ruing now. This is a case of barking up the wrong tree. Sacking the coach will not get Bangladeshi cricket anywhere.

You have to examine why the team performs so well on a given day and then capitulates into an ignominious defeat soon after.

The talent is definitely there. Then there are also some players who have moved from being brilliant to nothing. (Case in point: I feel sad when I see Ash on TV. Though he is an utter failure now, he did have his days. I will not forget his brilliance against big teams like Australia and Sri Lanka. I think his talent has gone hiding deep inside him.)

It is the same same team that beat England - in no flash in the pan - but folded up meekly against the Windies before that and South Africa after that. On days when the Tigers perform, they look really good, like any other major team.

My humble opinion is that there are problems on the psychological front which need to be handled by counsellors. I remember the Sri Lankan team going through a very bad patch a few years after they had even won the World Cup and how psychological intervention helped them come out of the hole they were in and perform again.

A last word: Please give the Tigers some breathing space. Feel for them. They must be more disappointed than anyone else with the bad loss to South Africa which closed the CWC 2011 door on them. They play the game with great pride and seem to wear their "greens" with national pride. Stand up for them.

After all the CWC is not the be all and end all of cricket. Mark my words. There will be some good performances against the Australians soon.

GO TIGERS ! The whole of South Asia supports you !

I had been saying this all along. I even asked Ian Pont about it.
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  #4  
Old March 19, 2011, 04:43 PM
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oshustho_mogoj oshustho_mogoj is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by abherath
I tend to agree with people who say here that it is not fair to blame the coaching staff for the unfortunate debacle most Bangladeshi fans are ruing now. This is a case of barking up the wrong tree. Sacking the coach will not get Bangladeshi cricket anywhere.

You have to examine why the team performs so well on a given day and then capitulates into an ignominious defeat soon after.

The talent is definitely there. Then there are also some players who have moved from being brilliant to nothing. (Case in point: I feel sad when I see Ash on TV. Though he is an utter failure now, he did have his days. I will not forget his brilliance against big teams like Australia and Sri Lanka. I think his talent has gone hiding deep inside him.)

It is the same same team that beat England - in no flash in the pan - but folded up meekly against the Windies before that and South Africa after that. On days when the Tigers perform, they look really good, like any other major team.

My humble opinion is that there are problems on the psychological front which need to be handled by counsellors. I remember the Sri Lankan team going through a very bad patch a few years after they had even won the World Cup and how psychological intervention helped them come out of the hole they were in and perform again.

A last word: Please give the Tigers some breathing space. Feel for them. They must be more disappointed than anyone else with the bad loss to South Africa which closed the CWC 2011 door on them. They play the game with great pride and seem to wear their "greens" with national pride. Stand up for them.

After all the CWC is not the be all and end all of cricket. Mark my words. There will be some good performances against the Australians soon.

GO TIGERS ! The whole of South Asia supports you !
Thank You.


Hails!
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  #5  
Old March 19, 2011, 05:22 PM
tejkuni tejkuni is offline
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I agree here completely. I do not think the problem is the coach or the coaching staff. In this case I think the problems are:
- Pressure. Whole country (including the prime minister and the people in village, people all around the world) were watching and expecting them to win. They do not have the experience of handling such a pressure. They are also young. Because of today’s experience, the boys will handle it better next time.
- They do not have the experience of playing competitive domestic league before playing for the national team to develop the patience and skills.
- I think a good number of Bengali fans and journalists don’t have the patience. Right after one bad game they want to fire the coach, drop the players, etc. etc. that adds to the pressure
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  #6  
Old March 19, 2011, 05:34 PM
affan_ayan affan_ayan is offline
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I completely agree that we need to address the real issue. Here is the real issue and situation:

1) Do you see any similarity between WC 2003 and WC 2011? If not, how about finding the similarity between WC 1999 and WC 2007? I think our selectors didn't learn from 2003, instead of following 2007, they preferred following the footstep of 2003. I hope selectors kept Mash and Kapali in the squad. This squad seemed too young for me to handle WC pressure.

2) Overall the team result is good because they beat Eng, Ire, Neth but scores like 58 & 78 is a real shame for a test playing nation. To me the selectors and young coaches like Jamie are fully responsible for this. I don't want to blame too much on Shaqib because he is too young and he will come strong with the experience, one day.

3) We do not need to wholesale change of the squad, just bring back coach Salauddin, players like Kapali, Jahurul in the squad. Bangladesh shouldn't insult Mashrafee under any situation because he is too great a player as well a person. When the guy like Mashrafee cries with insult, this cannot be a auspicious sign for BD cricket. This is not the responsibility of Jamie cause I doubt most of the professional coach has any heart. When you play a tournament like WC for the country, you not only require skill but also passion and heart.

Overall, I would ask our cricket board to involve Aminul Islam bulbul, Nannu, Sujon, Mashrafee, Akram khan, Bagh (tiger) Rafiq, Bashar as the consultant for the overall direction of cricket Bangladesh. The reason I picked up these players because they have tremendous contribution for our cricket in the past as well as now, their love and passion for BD cricket is beyond doubt. They were the real tigers who cries when we cry. We shouldn't follow the example of dark age of BD cricket during the time of WC 2003 when we made a captain like Rajin Saleh. We do not want to see another example of following WC 2011 where a young coach like Jamie to lead our young captain Shakib in the wrong way.

Shaqib, we love you and you are our only world class performer besides Tamim. But, you also need to understand that other tigers like Shafiul, Rubel are coming to age soon. You need to visualize the overall development of Bangladesh cricket, its past, present and future. More importantly, you need to understand that one day you will be also a former cricketer. We need your skill and brain not only as a player but also as a former player. I expect, some day you would be our gavaskar, kapil, imran khan or Ian chapel. So take only the skill part from coaches like Jamie, Pont but try to embrace the passion of the past tigers because you need to pass this flag to the next captain someday. Under any circumstances do not insult great player, person like Mashrafee even you have to literally play with 10 cricketer in the field.
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  #7  
Old March 19, 2011, 05:42 PM
Shubho Shubho is offline
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The coaching staff may not be entirely culpable, but I think they might be at least partly responsible for not developing able batsmen. Most of the current crop of players have come up through the U-19 setup and have been playing international cricket under J Siddons for years now. How is it they fold for under 100 runs twice in the same tournament at home?

I take your point that there was tremendous mental pressure on our boys. But how is it that the same team can handle the pressure one day (i.e. vs Ireland and England) and buckles under it the very next day (e.g. vs India, WI and SA)? Me no understand.
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  #8  
Old March 19, 2011, 06:14 PM
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simon simon is offline
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I very much agree to the thread opener,nothing to add more.
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  #9  
Old March 19, 2011, 06:25 PM
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Eshen Eshen is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shubho
The coaching staff may not be entirely culpable, but I think they might be at least partly responsible for not developing able batsmen. Most of the current crop of players have come up through the U-19 setup and have been playing international cricket under J Siddons for years now. How is it they fold for under 100 runs twice in the same tournament at home?

I take your point that there was tremendous mental pressure on our boys. But how is it that the same team can handle the pressure one day (i.e. vs Ireland and England) and buckles under it the very next day (e.g. vs India, WI and SA)? Me no understand.
Well, the batting side have been really poor over last one year. They may have good show here and a good show there, but overall they remained poor. The coaching staff, namely Siddons, ignored the problem for long as bowlers and occasional sparkles from Tamim or Shakib won us some matches last year, but eventually the bottom fell out.
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  #10  
Old March 19, 2011, 06:25 PM
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Greater belief in the self, and greater consistency will come with time. Other teams highlight the need for both of those from time to time. If anything this CWC has highlighted the unpredictable nature of cricket.
If there is one thing that the boys need more of, it is belief in their capabilities. And it is way easier to sit in front of a computer and type criticisms (constructive or not), it is never comparable to how hard it is to play at that level.
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  #11  
Old March 19, 2011, 06:33 PM
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Eshen Eshen is offline
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And Sorry Herath, can't agree with you. Siddons needs to go. He totally failed to develop a team in last three and half years, carried dead weights in the team, remained overly dependent upon individual brilliance of Tamim and Shakib to win a match, and he even managed to spoil those two!
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  #12  
Old March 19, 2011, 07:24 PM
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oshustho_mogoj oshustho_mogoj is offline
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IMO our batting partly failed due to mental/basic technical disabilities and stability in batting line up. You just can not juggle with important places like no 4/6/7 in a tournament like WC and i don't know who's fault was it :S Selectors/Siddons/Shakib?

But changing coaches now wouldn't be a wise step. Although we need a Bangladeshi coaching staff and i choose Mohammed Rafique for that.

Hails!

Last edited by oshustho_mogoj; March 19, 2011 at 08:10 PM..
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  #13  
Old March 19, 2011, 07:59 PM
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oporajeyo_bangla oporajeyo_bangla is offline
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Yes I think the problem with the team is psychological. The fact that Ashraful has not lived up to his potential is mainly due to psychology I think. It's an utter disappointment for a country like Bangladesh that we could not nurture his talent and make him a match winner. I personally think that the pressure on him had something to do with it. He was not able to handle the pressure.

I truly hope this does not happen to Shakib, Tamim and others. And thank you abherath for your support!!!
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  #14  
Old March 19, 2011, 07:59 PM
KING-KHAN KING-KHAN is offline
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As an outsider...my view on Bangladesh cricket team.

Bangladesh cricket team is very hyped by its supporters and hence the players be under a lot of pressure to perform. There is a lot of emphasis on certain players such as: Tamim, Sakib...And this doesnt allow them to play their natural games thus they fail. The over reliance on these players mean that when they fail the whole team comes down crashing.

I also believe there is a psychological problem as. for an example: when Bangladesh have to chase 250 plus then they go into a shell and believe that they cant chase this and do not play natural game and hence collapse as highlighted today. I believe this is a matter of confidence and not having a big heart.

I also believe that Bangladesh miss a big hitter- like we are lucky to have the likes of Afridi, razzaq, U Akmal, Kamran Akmal, Misbah who can increase the run rate when ever they wish thus there is little pressure on the team. And also the fact that Bangladesh have too many spinners who are mediocre and not not match winning and this effects the balance of the team. bangladesh should try to stick with specialists and not bits and pieces players.

My 2 cents.
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  #15  
Old March 19, 2011, 08:21 PM
BanArafath BanArafath is offline
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Changing the whole coaching staff would not be that good idea but yes changing the doemstic structure and making more practice facilities and aslo involve Rafique , Sumon, Pilot as a coach for the age level cricketers will be very good idea. I would like to see Rafique as a spin bowling coach and Salahuddin ( Who helped Tamim, Shakib and Razzak a lot ) as a fielding coach for Bangladesh national team.Salahuddin is not only a good fielding coach but also a good batting-bowling(spin) consultant.
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  #16  
Old March 19, 2011, 08:57 PM
ZunaidH ZunaidH is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KING-KHAN
As an outsider...my view on Bangladesh cricket team.

Bangladesh cricket team is very hyped by its supporters and hence the players be under a lot of pressure to perform. There is a lot of emphasis on certain players such as: Tamim, Sakib...And this doesnt allow them to play their natural games thus they fail. The over reliance on these players mean that when they fail the whole team comes down crashing.

I also believe there is a psychological problem as. for an example: when Bangladesh have to chase 250 plus then they go into a shell and believe that they cant chase this and do not play natural game and hence collapse as highlighted today. I believe this is a matter of confidence and not having a big heart.

I also believe that Bangladesh miss a big hitter- like we are lucky to have the likes of Afridi, razzaq, U Akmal, Kamran Akmal, Misbah who can increase the run rate when ever they wish thus there is little pressure on the team. And also the fact that Bangladesh have too many spinners who are mediocre and not not match winning and this effects the balance of the team. bangladesh should try to stick with specialists and not bits and pieces players.

My 2 cents.

King Khan;

No offense, your 2 cents translate to 0 for Bangladesh. This is just growing pain for Bangladesh. The right talent has always been there and will always be there - we are only beginning to nurture them. And above all big hitters or not, nobody should model anything after Pakistani players. Before any athletic ability is concerned, first thing is honesty and ethical astuteness. We all know from Rashid Latif to Afridi to the recent Amir, Asif and Butt do not provide any standard. Lets not site Pakistani cricket as a measuring stick for success. We are doing just fine.
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  #17  
Old March 19, 2011, 09:01 PM
1212 1212 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZunaidH
King Khan;

No offense, your 2 cents translate to 0 for Bangladesh. This is just growing pain for Bangladesh. The right talent has always been there and will always be there - we are only beginning to nurture them. And above all big hitters or not, nobody should model anything after Pakistani players. Before any athletic ability is concerned, first thing is honesty and ethical astuteness. We all know from Rashid Latif to Afridi to the recent Amir, Asif and Butt do not provide any standard. Lets not site Pakistani cricket as a measuring stick for success. We are doing just fine.
Absolutely disgusting. Is this how you welcome a new poster? Did the person ever gloat about Pakistani players? sounds like your getting jealous.
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  #18  
Old March 19, 2011, 09:25 PM
Crisis Crisis is offline
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First post, please be gentle.

My two cents :

We are still not ODI material.
We still don't know what shots to play, how to play them and which direction of the field to play the shot towards. We don't know how to take singles i.e. rotate strike or even how to build partnerships. Furthermore, I don't think any of our batsman has ever batted out 50 overs in an ODI from start to finish. We only have Tamim and Sakib who are dependable batsman ( even they fail as well but best of the worst I guess ) , the middle order is just there to fill up the numbers and the tailenders are not hard-hitters. In the past, when we had these domino effects, Pilot used to hold things together and slowly play out all of the 50 overs. We don't have his equivalent! Not only can't we handle pace but we also can't handle spin. One would imagine that with our vast number of spinners, our batsmen would be spin experts - but we seem to get choked and just block. Then, there's the home conditions. All of our matches in WC were in home conditions which our players are used to and we still found it too difficult.

Bowling-wise, Mashrafe is fragile and we need a new Mashrafe. Shafiul has a lot of bad days and Rubel just throws the ball like Shanto and doesn't swing it a lot. Razzak was supposd to be our specialist bowler after Rafique retired. But, Sakib takes more wickets than him while being an all-rounder.

I am ashamed that Netherlands and Canda played much better than us in this WC. Even, they seem to know the basics!

I would suggest that we play more ODI's against the likes of Scotland, Zimbabwe, Netherlands and Canada ( no Kenya as they have become toothless like us ) and try to learn the basics and fix our techniques. We still lose to Zimbabwe and our batsman still can't easily make 50's against the associates. Only when we are able to give consistent ash-whopping to associates in ODI's that we should play the big boys. And, the A team needs to be more active and sent out regularly overseas.
There also should be a separation between the types of players into Test and ODI material. e.g. JO is Test material, Rok could also be Test material.
There should also be replacements for each position. The, the current position holder will perform well or he knows that he will be replaced with his equivalent. At the momet, we don't have any replacements and our players take their places for granted.
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  #19  
Old March 19, 2011, 09:29 PM
1212 1212 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crisis
First post, please be gentle.

My two cents :

We are still not ODI material.
We still don't know what shots to play, how to play them and which direction of the field to play the shot towards. We don't know how to take singles i.e. rotate strike or even how to build partnerships. Furthermore, I don't think any of our batsman has ever batted out 50 overs in an ODI from start to finish. We only have Tamim and Sakib who are dependable batsman ( even they fail as well but best of the worst I guess ) , the middle order is just there to fill up the numbers and the tailenders are not hard-hitters. In the past, when we had these domino effects, Pilot used to hold things together and slowly play out all of the 50 overs. We don't have his equivalent! Not only can't we handle pace but we also can't handle spin. One would imagine that with our vast number of spinners, our batsmen would be spin experts - but we seem to get choked and just block. Then, there's the home conditions. All of our matches in WC were in home conditions which our players are used to and we still found it too difficult.

Bowling-wise, Mashrafe is fragile and we need a new Mashrafe. Shafiul has a lot of bad days and Rubel just throws the ball like Shanto and doesn't swing it a lot. Razzak was supposd to be our specialist bowler after Rafique retired. But, Sakib takes more wickets than him while being an all-rounder.

I am ashamed that Netherlands and Canda played much better than us in this WC. Even, they seem to know the basics!

I would suggest that we play more ODI's against the likes of Scotland, Zimbabwe, Netherlands and Canada ( no Kenya as they have become toothless like us ) and try to learn the basics and fix our techniques. We still lose to Zimbabwe and our batsman still can't easily make 50's against the associates. Only when we are able to give consistent ash-whopping to associates in ODI's that we should play the big boys. And, the A team needs to be more active and sent out regularly overseas.
There also should be a separation between the types of players into Test and ODI material. e.g. JO is Test material, Rok could also be Test material.
There should also be replacements for each position. The, the current position holder will perform well or he knows that he will be replaced with his equivalent. At the momet, we don't have any replacements and our players take their places for granted.
Good Post.
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  #20  
Old March 19, 2011, 09:39 PM
ZunaidH ZunaidH is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1212
Absolutely disgusting. Is this how you welcome a new poster? Did the person ever gloat about Pakistani players? sounds like your getting jealous.
Only stated the facts. Not sure what you are disgusted about. Also not sure what you are referring as being jealous of.
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  #21  
Old March 19, 2011, 09:49 PM
1212 1212 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZunaidH
Only stated the facts. Not sure what you are disgusted about. Also not sure what you are referring as being jealous of.
Did he go around insulting Bangladesh cricket team? But you certainly hesitate to insult pakistan cricket team.
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  #22  
Old March 19, 2011, 09:53 PM
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munnabhai munnabhai is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KING-KHAN
As an outsider...my view on Bangladesh cricket team.

Bangladesh cricket team is very hyped by its supporters and hence the players be under a lot of pressure to perform. There is a lot of emphasis on certain players such as: Tamim, Sakib...And this doesnt allow them to play their natural games thus they fail. The over reliance on these players mean that when they fail the whole team comes down crashing.

I also believe there is a psychological problem as. for an example: when Bangladesh have to chase 250 plus then they go into a shell and believe that they cant chase this and do not play natural game and hence collapse as highlighted today. I believe this is a matter of confidence and not having a big heart.

I also believe that Bangladesh miss a big hitter- like we are lucky to have the likes of Afridi, razzaq, U Akmal, Kamran Akmal, Misbah who can increase the run rate when ever they wish thus there is little pressure on the team. And also the fact that Bangladesh have too many spinners who are mediocre and not not match winning and this effects the balance of the team. bangladesh should try to stick with specialists and not bits and pieces players.

My 2 cents.
Well said. This is the truth about Bangladesh cricket. Good to see a different view from an outsider.
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  #23  
Old March 19, 2011, 10:32 PM
ZunaidH ZunaidH is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1212
Did he go around insulting Bangladesh cricket team? But you certainly hesitate to insult pakistan cricket team.
Once again, I stated facts. No insults - just simple facts. Wondering what you are reading into...
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  #24  
Old March 19, 2011, 11:49 PM
Alvi Alvi is offline
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Most of the Bangladeshi batsmen (except Shakib and Tamim) cannot even play the basics of the one day game, they don't know how to keep the scoreboard ticking. They continuously sit in the same place hoping that the ball will come to them so that they can place it in the gap, there's never any footwork. If they play defensive, they start playing test cricket scoring only 1 or 2 runs an over. I don't understand don't they watch other teams play? If the opposition puts some tight fielding on them, they just block and block and block with no signs of stopping, which adds more pressure on themselves. They need a new coach who can teach the batsmen how to play in different situations. Most of the bowlers (except Shakib and Razzak) have no variation. Rubel's bowling is just hideous, Shafiul has potential but he needs to improve his fitness and work on developing different types of deliveries. Finally, they need to become more self-confident, there's always a continuous panic in the team after they lose a wicket (or worse, after Tamim gets out cheaply).
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  #25  
Old March 20, 2011, 12:36 AM
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Baundule Baundule is offline
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The coach is the main problem, no doubt about it. He has blocked new players from entering the team, sticking with his favourite players no matter how they perform. All old men have been barred from the team as well.

He is the one who always takes credit no matter whether he has any contribution to it or not (e.g. from SN's batting). On the other hand, I do not remember a single occasion when he took the reponsibility of our bad performances.
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