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  #1  
Old March 21, 2011, 11:48 AM
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Default Reliving the Siddons Era

Que back to December 2007. Bangladesh is touring New Zealand. Following a 6 wicket and a 102 run defeat (by D/L. The actual difference was much more), Bangladesh took field to play the last of the ODI series. The match would result in one of the most horrific ODI losses of all time. (To my knowledge, the largest NRR from an ODI). After succumbing to 93, B. McCullum would single handedly chase the total down in 6 overs. A few days later, the stage would shift to Test Cricket and after a first innings collapse of 137, the BD openers Tamim Iqbal and Zunaed Siddiqui would form a record breaking 161 run partnership to avoid innings defeat. The 2nd test would however, follow the standard script of an innings defeat.

The significance of the above series is that this was Jamie Siddons’ first assignment as Bangladesh Head Coach. It is not fair to blame him or for that matter praise him for the bad and the good that took place in that series but it is interesting that after 3+ years at the helm, Jamie would leave Bangladesh the same way. A total collapse and embarrassing loss in an ODI (78 ao vs. SA) and bright sporadic moments in Test cricket which only went back to end in an all too familiar way. (Our last series against ENG saw the individual success of Shahadat and Tamim only to end the last test in an innings defeat). With so much questions flying as to what impact Jamie had on Bangladesh cricket lets look at a few things.

[I promise to keep my analysis as objective as possible even though most regulars will know me as one of those that have been claiming Jamie’s head for well over a year and a half. Let me first state that there are no ill feelings on my behalf to our (soon to be) former coach. I wish all the best in the future. My opinions (correct or wrong) are based on what I believe to the in the best interest of Bangladesh Cricket.]

Background:

Jamie took charge during a very crucial time in Bangladesh Cricket. The team had surprised India and South Africa in the most recent ODI world cup and finished 7th overall despite a loss to associate nation Ireland. The wins vs. India and South Africa were in dominating fashion and there were some fight shown in other encounters such as England. This was welcomed by the fans following a miserable showing at the 2003 world cup which included multiple losses to non test nations. Not only that, the team had gone from one major win a year (IND 04, AUS 05, SL 06) to securing 2 big scalps within a month. Bangladesh had moved from being a ‘laughing stock who could surprise you once in a blue moon’ to ‘a team that needed to be taken seriously in each match’. The one blemish that came out of the world cup was the then coach Dav Whatmore publicly campaigning for the lucrative coaching job of India while Bangladesh’s stay at the World Cup was in progress.

The World Cup followed with a tour by India in which there was a hard fought drawn test to go along with the customary innings defeat. Two of the Three ODIs took place with the first one seeing India reduced to 144-5 chasing 250 and the 2nd one was a 46 run loss chasing 284. A Sri Lanka tour saw Bangladesh failing to chased 234 and 196 and managing to take 5 wickets in defense of 137 runs. The three Test matches were all innings defeats. In between there was the inaugural T20 world cup in which Bangladesh knocked out West Indies of the tournament to establish themselves as a top 8 nation in two successive major tournaments.

Expectations:

Based on the above, its not hard to see why fan expectations were high with the new coach. The batting had always been a concern and Jamie was a batting specialist. He had a tremendous first class record, was regarded as the best player to never wear the baggy green and was a part of the management to arguably the most dominant force in cricket history. Bangladesh were looking to move away from sporadic individual performances and humiliating batting collapses to a notable cricketing force. Pressure was on to deny those that critiqued Bangladesh’s premature test status and believed that their involvement only devalued major tournaments. Now there was a new format to take into account, the T20. This format seemed to play up to benefit Bangladesh, given the batsmen’s desire to take a swipe at balls bowled their way.

Jamie was also inheriting the new crop of players in Shakib, Tamim, Mushfiq, Razzak along with Ashraful (captain) and Mashrafe. Some long time veterans like Bashar, Rafique, Pilot had been phased/pushed out while other ‘bright futured’ candidates such as Nafees and Kapali were walking the tight rope due to their form. A majority of those players would eventually sign with the rebel ICL league which would become a battlefield for BCCI to establish its dominance in ICC. What initially was an opportunity for players not in the limelight of their own boards turned out to be a banishment from international cricket altogether. However, according the BCB plans only Aftab’s departure seemed to be of consequence at that time.

What we have done in the Siddons Era:

T20 : The coach along with the selectors and board have shown a blatant disregard for this format and that has shown in the results of the two WCs to take place under the supervision of Siddons. Failure to qualify to the next round by a loss to Ireland in 2009 was followed by the batsmen to chase down marginal totals (by T20 standards) especially from winning positions in the 2010 World Cup first round against Pakistan and Australia.

The one off T20 matches were all losses which included losses to a West Indies team that was blanked out by Bangladesh in the Test and ODI series and humiliating 100+ run loss to Pakistan and a 10 wicket loss to New Zealand. The only fighting match came with the South Africans in a rain impacted matches where Bangladesh would go down by 12 runs. The team is clueless on how to bat in powerplays and pace a high chase which is also evident in our ODI performances. The bigger concern was the failure to identify or attempt to build a proper T20 team based on skills. The same players that played Tests and ODIs were engaged and there seemed little concern to address our future in this new but significant format.

ODI : South Africa visited us in 2008 and chased comfortable in all 3, with Bangladeshi batsmen failing to set a total beyond 180 in any of the matches. Next up was Ireland in a revenge opportunity following the 2007 World Cup defeat. Shahriar Nafees and Tamim took the opportunity to pad personal stats and Bangladesh whitewashed the Irish. A 5 match series in Pakistan that came with expectations of being able to avoid a clean sweep was a miserable failure with only Shakib’s fighting century in the 3rd ODI and a spirited chase of 308 (285/7) in the 2nd as the only bright spots. A tri series with IND and PAK at home and an Asia cup followed with more misery and fightless defeats. An Ashraful century and win vs. UAE was the only solace in that period. A visit to Australia during their off season would see the BD batsment muster up 74, 117 and 125 (dis)respectively. October 9th, 2008 would give Siddons his first meaningful success as Bangladesh, behind Zunaed and Ashraful, would record their first ever win vs. the Kiwis chasing down 201. The next matches were back to scoring 137 and 170 in chasing not so threatening 200+ scores by New Zealand. A trip back to South Africa saw Bangladesh cross 200 both times but insignificant in terms of match context.

2009 came with Bangladesh losing to Zimbabwe in the 1st of their 14 encounters that year. The next match was another feather in Siddons’ cap with Bangladesh chasing down 147 in 23.5 overs against SL to secure a finals spot. The Final was a low scoring thriller with Bangladesh failing to hold on to an advantage provided by the opening bowlers. Zimbabwe drew first blood again in the head to head series only to watch Bangladesh fight their way back to a 2-1 series win. The next assignment in the Caribbean was laced with drama. Not only had the West Indian players decided that Bangladesh was the perfect opponent for them to follow through on their strike threat with, Ashraful had finally lost the captaincy thanks to the Irish at the T20 world cup. Mashrafe was the new captain but got injured in the first Test and left Shakib to take on the leadership role. The ODI would be historical for Bangladesh to capture its first win vs. WI as well as its first washout of a test nation in foreign soil. The batsmen set a target of 246 and chased down 274 and 248 in the successive matches. 2009 finished with back to back 5 match series’ vs. Zimbabwe away and home. Both series’ resulted in 4-1 in the favor of Bangladesh with almost each individual taking the opportunity to post significant personal milestones. It appeared that the team had learned to win and was pulling out matches in situations that would have been hard to fathom in the past.

2010 came with a loaded schedule for the first half of the year. IND and SL made Bangladesh’s batting improvements seem meaningless and New Zealand took care of us with ease down under. England took the ODI series 3-0 but not without a scare in the 2nd ODI where had the umpiring been more accurate, Bangladesh may have recorded its first win against the lone test nation at that point to be conquered. Another miserable Asia cup followed with huge defeats to IND, SL and PAK. The loss to Pakistan would be complemented with criticism of defeatist mentality when Bangaldeshi batsmen gave up on the chase after the loss of the first wicket. Mashrafe returned as captain in the return trip to England and helped secure the elusive first win. England took the other two with ease and even Ireland and Netherlands joined in the party to secure wins vs. a team that had been playing non stop cricket for 8/9 months. Bangladesh would split the 2 matches with Ireland though. After a break 2010 brought about the most glorious moment in Siddons’ career as the Bangladeshi head coach. His team whitewashed the Kiwis 4-0. Although there weren’t many notable batting displays and it was the bowling and fielding that stole the show, the team showed resolved to win 4 matches of which 3 were extremely close. Mashrafe once again injured himself in the first match played and turned over the reigns to Shakib. Zimbabwe came back to finish the year and after winning the first match lost the final 3. Despite a couple of decent scores for Nafees as Tamim’s replacement in the Kiwi series, there was not spot for him vs. Zimbabwe and Ashraful was back only to be dropped after being called out by the captain following the first loss.

2011 was the final exam for Siddons if you will in the form of the World Cup. Bangladesh seemed to have the script written out to perfection. Co-hosts, all group matches at home, West Indies had collapsed to #9 under Bangladesh in the rankings, England seemed tired out from a long Australia tour, not much more that could have been asked for. The world cup started with allowing India to amass a total of 370 and ended with Bangladesh collapsing to 78 vs. South Africa. In between there was another embarrassing 58 ao to West Indies, a hard fought victory against Ireland, a miraculous victory against England which should have been clinical and a confident but cautious win over Netherlands. Despite finishing equal in points for 4th position, the failure with the bat had impacted the NRR too greatly for Bangladesh to advance without outside help.

Test: the first series in New Zealand started with the famous opening stand that avoided an inning defeat. But instead of capitalizing on that effort the team scored barely enough for the Kiwis to chase it down at the expense of 1 wicket in their 2nd innings. The 2nd match was an innings defeat as usual. South Africa took the first of two tests in a low scoring affair where Bangladesh actually secured a first innings lead. At the end it was a hard fought 5 wickets win by the Proteas. The 2nd test was another innings defeat with the match being virtually over by day 1 as both openers for South Africa would set a unbeaten platform for their double centuries. New Zealand came to visit and escaped barely thanks to the heroics of their captain. In the one match to be fully played New Zealand needed 317 to win and did so thanks to Daniel Vettori. When Bangladesh returned to South Africa, there were no close matches as both tests resulted in innings defeats.

Sri Lanka were next to visit Bangladesh and saw Bangladesh reach a record fourth innings total of 413. Although the outcome of the game never really in doubt, the Bangladesh batsmen made Sri Lanka sweat out the 1st test. Maybe Jayawardane was on to something has he waited to secure a 500 plus run lead before choosing to declare. The 2nd test was a clinical display and 465 run defeat of the Tigers. Bangladesh would end up playing only 2 more tests that year against the undermanned West Indies. The victories were significant and the better team won but still the matches were closer (95 runs & 4 wickets) then they probably ought to have been.

2010 marks the year that Jamie Siddons and his fans can most likely point to as the proof of his impact on Bangladeshi batting. A one run deficit in the first test vs. India eventually led to a 113 run defeat and the 2nd Test was barely an escape of an innings defeat by setting India to chase down 1 run in their 2nd innings. New Zealand scored a 121 runs win. England came to Bangladesh to take the victories at 181 runs and 9 wickets and in the return trip of Bangladesh to England at 8 wickets and innings + 80 runs. Even though none of the 7 matches were close in the end, there were some batting moments that were rarities in Bangladesh Test History. Centuries and Partnership records were made almost every Tests and most matches were taken to the 5th day requiring the opponent to put in the effort for the win.

So the question comes up, what has Siddons’ impact been on Bangladesh cricket. Above are the numbers and facts. I tried my best keeping the OP free of comments on the approach, the media interviews and the mentality of the coach and the players.
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Last edited by Raynman; March 21, 2011 at 02:21 PM..
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  #2  
Old March 21, 2011, 12:03 PM
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More paragraphing needed
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Old March 21, 2011, 02:56 PM
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Here is the summary of his record in that time:

T20 : 0-8
ODI : 31-50

Wins 13 ZIM, 5 NZ/IRE, 3 WI, 2 ENG, 1 SL/UAE/NED
Losses : 12 @ 100+ runs, 14 @ 7w or more

Tests : 2 wins, 1 Draw, 16 losses

2 wins vs. WI
1 Draw vs. NZ (weather)
5 Innings defeats
5 losses @ 100+ runs
4 losses @ 8w or more
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Old March 21, 2011, 03:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raynman
Here is the summary of his record in that time:

T20 : 0-8


And supposedly BD should be good in T20 since its the shortest format.
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Old March 21, 2011, 10:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amar11432


And supposedly BD should be good in T20 since its the shortest format.
Pretty soon Afghanistan will blank us in the format if things stay the way they are.
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Old March 21, 2011, 11:12 PM
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jamie was a GOOD FC batsmen ......

appoint 6-7 local batting coaches to the 6-7 FC teams we have. then appoint Jamie Siddons as the HEAD BATTING COACH of these local batting coaches. then this coaching teams job will be to improve the techniques of local Batsmen in FC matches. Jamie will coach both the players and coaches.
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Old March 22, 2011, 12:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amar11432


And supposedly BD should be good in T20 since its the shortest format.
How many T20 games BD National player's play in a year?

Practice makes perfect. Playing 6/7 T20 (DPL/PCL T20 leagues) games in an entire year or 2 doesn't really help the players gain more experience in playing T20. Plus we packed our batting line up with slow pokes, what more can you expect.

IMO JS did so so. Whatever good he brought into the team, the bad things ended up evening it out. Things should have been a lot better but at the same time it could been a lot worse. Had we made the Quaterfinal I'm sure a lot of his mistakes would have been overlooked.
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Old March 22, 2011, 12:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bangladesh_sy
How many T20 games BD National player's play in a year?

Practice makes perfect. Playing 6/7 T20 (DPL/PCL T20 leagues) games in an entire year or 2 doesn't really help the players gain more experience in playing T20. Plus we packed our batting line up with slow pokes, what more can you expect.

IMO JS did so so. Whatever good he brought into the team, the bad things ended up evening it out. Things should have been a lot better but at the same time it could been a lot worse. Had we made the Quaterfinal I'm sure a lot of his mistakes would have been overlooked.
And what kind of excuse is that? By that line of reasoning if we get out for 1 run then we could've done worse by getting a.o. in 0 run. This is precisely an example of negative set of attitudes that anti-Siddons have qualms with.

As for me, I don't like labels. I voted anti-Siddons in Miraz bhai's poll but that was immediately after the SA match and it was quite rash. Neither am I proponent of ridding him off. But as WarWolf bhai pointed out, the man has serious "accountability" problem. Least he can do is own up.

But what I don't understand is the rationale of the blind followers of Siddons who adamantly back him up and acts as if he's the best thing that has happened to Bangladesh.

And even if he was the best thing to happen for Bangladesh, by your very own "worse-could've-happened" hypothesis Bangladesh could've also got someone much better skilled at development and strategy as well as good in being a batting coach.

And as for weaknesses being overlooked had we made QF...well, why should we even laud that? If you wanna make a Boeing 747 you don't just go ahead and cross your legs if it manages to fly. You should never be satisfied if it does. There is always the possibility of a screw being loose and thus you take preventive measure.

I remember once Einstein said that the difference between other people and him is the fact that once someone finds a needle in a haystack s/he stops. Einstein, however, keeps looking.

Raise the bar for heaven's sakes.
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Old March 22, 2011, 01:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raynman
ODI : 31-50

Wins 13 ZIM, 5 NZ/IRE, 3 WI, 2 ENG, 1 SL/UAE/NED
The Wins dont add up.
Its 24 wins that you've mentioned.
Where are the rest 7 wins ? Against who ?
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Old March 22, 2011, 02:05 AM
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Get Brian lara as batting coach and ian pont can be head coach
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Old March 22, 2011, 02:37 AM
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Siddons has to be held accountable but so do the selectors, the board and the players. The analysis should then look at who shared the greater blame.

Looking at the 58 and 78, if one can exclude the players' mentality then of course it looks bad for siddons. He needs to admit the faults in the team, however there was the danger that if he had done that in the past he would have been lynched- as it goes in with witch hunts if the witch doesn't drown it's a witch, if the witch drowns then it's innocent. Either way whether Siddons owned up or not, I think he would have still made the scapegoat.

As I see it our batsmen have repeated the same mistakes under whatmore, Siddons and any other coach for that matter. I think it's a lack of professionalism on our players' part and their inability to work hard and grind it out in partnerships. They lack cricketing brains more than anything. Thus I argued for Siddons, I hold the players and their idiotic habits more responsible than anything else.

That being said, someone will have to go after the enquiry, it is highly likely Siddons wil face the chop and judging by the 58 and 78 I can no longer argue as strongly as I had for siddons' inclusion as coach. But at the same time I am of the opinion that if you are going to get rid of gangrenous flesh, you may as well remove everything otherwise it will spread.

We need selectors who will select on form and will travel throughout bangladesh on talent hunts as well as having no affiliations with players. We also need changes at other levels as mentioned before.
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Old March 22, 2011, 02:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rabz
quote:
Originally posted by raynman
odi : 31-50

wins 13 zim, 5 nz/ire, 3 wi, 2 eng, 1 sl/uae/ned
the wins dont add up.
Its 24 wins that you've mentioned.
Where are the rest 7 wins ? Against who
13 + 5 + 5 + 3 + 2 + 1 + 1+ 1 = 31
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Old March 22, 2011, 04:15 AM
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^^ Doh !!!
Had a Homer moment there !!

Can someone pls give us a breakdown of matches against G8 and Zim/associates ?

11 out of those 31 wins came against the G8, but on the back of how many matches ?
We have also managed to lose to Ireland/Holland during this period, so how many in total we've lost against the associates?
Whats are record (W/L) against the Zim ??

Would be great if someone could take the trouble of breaking it down for us.
Probably that would give us a better picture.
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Old March 22, 2011, 04:41 AM
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Siddons' contribution to our 'success' in the test arena is highly overrated. We had some good innings from Golla, Ashraful, Bulbul, Pilot and a few others around Basher in the pre-Siddons era. And we had the same this time around from Junaed, Rahim, Riyadh around Shakib and Tamim. Shakib and Tamim were already better (in terms of ability) players than the previous generation. SIddons' job with them was pretty easy, he did not have to CREATE them. As a team, we have failed to sustain pressure. We did play close matches before (Multan, Fatulla...) and we did play a few in Siddons' time as well. We do still lose miserably from a position of advantage.

The effect of all our 'improvement' myth is still the same; big teams do not think us as a threat in the test arena.
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Old March 22, 2011, 09:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rabz
^^ Doh !!!
Had a Homer moment there !!

Can someone pls give us a breakdown of matches against G8 and Zim/associates ?

11 out of those 31 wins came against the G8, but on the back of how many matches ?
We have also managed to lose to Ireland/Holland during this period, so how many in total we've lost against the associates?
Whats are record (W/L) against the Zim ??

Would be great if someone could take the trouble of breaking it down for us.
Probably that would give us a better picture.
I think I have this right:

NZ : 5 - 8 (at home 5-2)
SA : 0 - 6 (at home 0-4)
IRE: 5 - 1 (at home 4-0)
PAK: 0 - 8 (at home 0-0)
IND : 0 - 5 (at home 0-3)
UAE : 1 - 0 (at home 0-0)
SL : 1 - 7 (at home 1-3)
AUS : 0 - 3 (at home 0-0)
ZIM : 13 - 5 (at home 9-4)
WI (Strike team) : 3 - 0 (at home 0-0)
WI (full strength) : 0 - 1 (at home 0-1)
ENG : 2 - 5 (at home 1-3)
END : 1 - 1 (at home 1 -1 )

42 of the 81 matches at home. Home record is 21-21
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Old March 22, 2011, 09:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Baundule
Siddons' contribution to our 'success' in the test arena is highly overrated. We had some good innings from Golla, Ashraful, Bulbul, Pilot and a few others around Basher in the pre-Siddons era. And we had the same this time around from Junaed, Rahim, Riyadh around Shakib and Tamim. Shakib and Tamim were already better (in terms of ability) players than the previous generation. SIddons' job with them was pretty easy, he did not have to CREATE them. As a team, we have failed to sustain pressure. We did play close matches before (Multan, Fatulla...) and we did play a few in Siddons' time as well. We do still lose miserably from a position of advantage.

The effect of all our 'improvement' myth is still the same; big teams do not think us as a threat in the test arena.
Correct. Another myth is the ability to stretch the match to the 5th day. Whats overlooked is that in some matches our opponents chose to not follow us and get batting practice and some matches we barely avoided the innings defeat. Other than the 3 wicket loss to NZ, there really wasn't a test match in the Siddons era where we had a realistic chance of winning.
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Old March 22, 2011, 12:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZeeshanM
And what kind of excuse is that? By that line of reasoning if we get out for 1 run then we could've done worse by getting a.o. in 0 run. This is precisely an example of negative set of attitudes that anti-Siddons have qualms with.
That's not an excuse. I'm not trying to defend JS. This is just how I see how this past 4 year was. That's why I said so so. I'm not saying that I'm happy/glad because things didn't get worse than it is right now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZeeshanM
But what I don't understand is the rationale of the blind followers of Siddons who adamantly back him up and acts as if he's the best thing that has happened to Bangladesh.
LOL. Where are you getting this from? Where do you see me parading around the forum claiming he is the best thing that has happened to Bangladesh?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZeeshanM
And as for weaknesses being overlooked had we made QF...well, why should we even laud that? If you wanna make a Boeing 747 you don't just go ahead and cross your legs if it manages to fly. You should never be satisfied if it does. There is always the possibility of a screw being loose and thus you take preventive measure.
I'm not saying that 'oh how I wish we made the QF so all of JS's mistakes would be overlooked'. I'm just saying that's what majority of our fans would do, that's what BCB would do, they would just be happy with making the QF and the likes of 58 all out would be thrown under the rug.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZeeshanM
Raise the bar for heaven's sakes.
Believe me I'm always up for raising the bar. Read what I wrote in the BCB preliminary meeting thread because one of the board member claimed our performance was satisfactory.
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Old March 22, 2011, 01:04 PM
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This sounds like a premature morbid obituary, Rayman! What if he gets an extension? For your well being, I hope he doesn't : )
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Old March 22, 2011, 01:18 PM
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This sounds like a premature morbid obituary, Rayman! What if he gets an extension? For your well being, I hope he doesn't : )
Well the OP post was kept neutral stating only the facts

If he gets an extension and turns things around I'll be the first to cheer. I didn't jump on Siddons' case when he started. Only after comments like 240 is the goal and his ultra defensive approach was exposed did I jump on the wagon to demand his head.

Based on Bangladesh results and what informaton I have been exposed to believe he did not achieve anything close to the potential of the team under current circumstances and available players.
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