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  #1  
Old April 9, 2011, 09:11 AM
Imtiazk Imtiazk is offline
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Default What do we do with a problem called Mahmudullah

Mahmudullah at No.7 in ODi's is like a fish out of water ! I believe he is a very talented cricketer and technically one of our better batsmen. He is also a better than average bowler - better than people expect him to be.

I would always include him in tests. But if we are going to take him in ODI's, he has to bat up the order. This is basically the Junaid / Rakibul / Mahmudullah slot. Maybe there is room for two. The consolidators, shall we say. But I will come to that later.

I have not written in banglacricket.com for many months. Frankly, I am a little disappointed. I was in Bangladesh for two matches in the WC. The WI debacle and the enthralling victory at Chittagong. For someone like me, England based for over 35 years, it added a certain poignancy.

The New Zealand success though deserved had gone to everyone's heads. I really mean everyone. Does giving away valuable plots of land which many hard working people would not be able to afford in their lifetime, really motivate cricketers ? Or, does it seem to them that life is really easy ! If the win against New Zealand merited securing a plot, the debacle against the West Indies should equally mean a penalty - withdrawl of the plot . What is sauce for the goose must surely be sauce for the gander !

Coming back to Mahmudullah, either he goes up the order or he should not play in ODI's. He cannot accelerate - not everybody is a Irfan Pathan. I strongly believe that Sakib under bowls him. Not just today, but in most days. Naeem is actually better suited in this position. The other guy is Farhad Reza. I don't know where he is now. The game now-a-days is already lost by the time he [ they ] comes to bat and then all they do is fatten up the averages. Chittagong being the glorious exception. Here too Mahmud was the risk averse batsman though this was still necessary as Rubel was yet to come in. The target also was not very high. But Shafi won us the match.

Naeem and Junaid clearly have been made scapegoats. Why not Mushfiq ? Why can't we have Zahurul instead.

My abiding memory of the World Cup from the Bangladesh debacle point of view was at the end of the 15th over against South Africa. On the television, I saw Bangladesh had played out 74 dot balls. Out of 90 balls ! Next ball Mushfiq was out.

Even if we had scored 35 of those balls in singles we would have been 71/5 and not 36/5. More importantly, by rotating, the bowlers would not have been so dominant so probably would have lost fewer wickets.

This problem is endemic with Bangladesh. "Hoy Chokka noy Mokka " as the saying goes. I read somewhere that Bangladesh holds the record for scoring the highest percentage of runs scored through boundaries. Note the record is for percentages and not runs.

I suggest that as these overpaid "stars" are contracted anyway, during the training session, they should play against each other a match every week. Except, with one rule change. No boundaries [ 4s or 6s ] will be counted. All runs scored must be by running . Not only will that teach them to take singles but equally important they should always look for 2s and 3s by attacking the first run. This is typical of Australia, South Africa etc. Less so the sub continental sides.

Last edited by Imtiazk; April 9, 2011 at 02:07 PM..
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  #2  
Old April 9, 2011, 09:52 AM
F6_Turbo F6_Turbo is offline
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You can't have a player in the team who bowls only 3-4 overs and then bats at 7.

It is a complete waste of the player, and the spot in the team. We need to either give him a real go at no.4(I'd say around 10-15 ODI matches) or put him out of his misery.

We are going to ruin the player completely.
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  #3  
Old April 9, 2011, 10:00 AM
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Baundule Baundule is offline
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Riyadh is a Shakib-like player. He is a batsman who can bowl. Shakib was the same at the start. If Riyadh plays he should play in the top 5. Agree with turbo that we are simply ruining him.
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  #4  
Old April 9, 2011, 10:12 AM
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lamisa lamisa is offline
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i always said that shakib is unfair to riyad. i clearly remember during one of the tests that we played in england recently, most of the bowlers were being toyed with by the batsmen except shakib perhaps and riyad.riyad bowled 7 overs and his econ rate was somewhere betwen 3 and 4 but still shakib didn't give him the ball for another spell,whereas he himself bowled more than 20 overs!!!and if we are going to experiment so much with our batting order and specially with spot no.4, why not give riyad a go?what harm will that do?surely nothing can be worse than 58 all out?
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  #5  
Old April 9, 2011, 10:18 AM
Imtiazk Imtiazk is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Baundule
Riyadh is a Shakib-like player. He is a batsman who can bowl. Shakib was the same at the start. If Riyadh plays he should play in the top 5. Agree with turbo that we are simply ruining him.

Mahmud is a more orthodox batsman. Perhaps the best we have. Rakibul is a more forced orthodox batsman. By which, I mean, an uppish shot is about to come anytime. His orthodoxy is only in defence. Even here gaps appear.That is why his average is so low despite a relatively low Striking rate.

Mahmud , on the other hand, having been dealt a poor hand, i.e. the team in deep trouble and he only has to play with the tail, manages to stay not out till the end quite often, 16 not outs so far and bolster his average. Why not ? By the time he comes in, the game , in most cases , is over anyway.

He is definitely underbowled. I have been noticing this since the West Indies tour when Shakib became the de facto captain.
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  #6  
Old April 9, 2011, 10:38 AM
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ahnaf ahnaf is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Imtiazk
Mahmud is a more orthodox batsman. Perhaps the best we have. Rakibul is a more forced orthodox batsman. By which, I mean, an uppish shot is about to come anytime. His orthodoxy is only in defence. Even here gaps appear.That is why his average is so low despite a relatively low Striking rate.

Mahmud , on the other hand, having been dealt a poor hand, i.e. the team in deep trouble and he only has to play with the tail, manages to stay not out till the end quite often, 16 not outs so far and bolster his average. Why not ? By the time he comes in, the game , in most cases , is over anyway.

He is definitely underbowled. I have been noticing this since the West Indies tour when Shakib became the de facto captain.
couldnot agree more.. Shakib and co. just ruining riyads carrer.. If anybody deserve the num 4 position of our team its certainly riyad not mushy or etc.. People always jumping on why mushy isnot playing at 4 why nayeem isnot playing at 4.. But surprisingly nobody ever say a word about riyad! Though nayeem and mushy never ever showed a little consistency.. At the begining of 2010,Riyad was in really good form whether thats test or oneday... Specially in test.. I still remember at that time riyad was called special num 7 by dhoni when they came bd.. And he's the player who alaways likes to rotate the strike rather than hitting..In my eyes.. He's the most underrated player of our team..
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  #7  
Old April 9, 2011, 11:18 AM
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_Rafi_ _Rafi_ is offline
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Riyad could play at one down. There is no point of having SN at this position and no point of playing 3 left hand batter in at 1-3 position.
IK
TIK
Riyad
Shakib
Hom
Alok/Nasir/Sabbir
Anamul
Shuvo or other spin AR
Raj
Shafiul
Rubel/Mash/Nazmul
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  #8  
Old April 9, 2011, 12:47 PM
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if mushy is out from the team, no body will be more happy than me===there is no use of mushfiq in ODI nd 2020. he is just a waste of spot

agre riad should bat one down or 2 down
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  #9  
Old April 9, 2011, 12:51 PM
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Either play him at the top order or don't play him at all. How long have we been trying to find a batsman for 3/4? Why didn't we bother to give him a try? We need to stop trying to make bits and pieces all rounder. Let the guy do what he's ok/good at doing.
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  #10  
Old April 9, 2011, 12:56 PM
shafayeen shafayeen is offline
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bowling riyad when only there is left hand ers in the crease is Stupid! I was always against it. Offspinners can be succesful against right handers. 4 overs for 18. If he bowled 2 more, we would have conceceded 40 runs in the last two!
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  #11  
Old April 9, 2011, 12:59 PM
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That's how i felt for Nayeem tbh....bechara alll his life batted in the top 4 but when he came to the nat team....they dump him @ number 8 and runied him completely....he was a beast at number 4;scored tons of runs for U19's, Domestic FC/OD, academy team & A team at number 4....


I'm pretty sure....We will soon ruin another 2/3 talented player who CAN BE WC PLAYER ...and it will be from Nasir, Shuvovogoto, shabbir, Nur & Anamul Bijoy...
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  #12  
Old April 9, 2011, 01:04 PM
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Mahmudullah must bat in top 4. He is one of our top 3 batsmen imo. Very underrated, sending him at 7 when game is over is a crime.

I remember Gavaskar praising Riyad's batting a lot before

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  #13  
Old April 9, 2011, 01:12 PM
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I have said this earlier, if you need an animal/bird to provide you with eggs, get a duck not a goat. No matter how hard you try, the goat won't give you eggs. It on the other hand can give you some good quality milk
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  #14  
Old April 9, 2011, 01:26 PM
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What's the point of us saying where him to bat.. What we want never happens

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  #15  
Old April 9, 2011, 01:47 PM
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I remember many of them were shouting for Mushy to come in and bat at no. 3/4 when our top order were collapsing often. Now that Mushy has failed miserably up there, everyone is now going for Mahmuduallah. I am not very optmistic about him to bat up the order. Even Naeem was tried on the top against the Zimbos earlier. He failed too.
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  #16  
Old April 9, 2011, 01:54 PM
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I remember Riyad was promoted to bat at no.5 in a test match (against india or England) and scored a fluent 52 when ash was dropped. But he had to go back to no.8 to accommodate ash in the team.

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  #17  
Old April 9, 2011, 02:45 PM
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Well, I have repeatedly said that Riyad should be our fixture at no.4. I didn't want to repeat the same storyline again and again, but since Imtiaz bhai opened this thread, out of respect, I had to repeat it again. Why Riyad at no.4 ? and the reasons behind it? Well, a few things I look for a no.4, and out of all the characters that we have paraded over the years, he comes out as better equipped than all of them. Here is why:
1. You need a cerebral cricketer at no.4. He is that.
2. You need a guy who values his wkt at no.4, so he can build the innings. He has that quality.
3. We have lefties in top three, so from match up point of view, a RHB is very much in order. He is that.
4. You need a touch of class at no.4. Why? because, most of the time the field is spread, and a wristy player is needed to play with soft hands, play the gap, and face a lot of spinners. He is simply better at it than the rest.
4. Him being up there at no.4 ensures that we don't have four specialists in top four. It is a luxury that only Bangladesh can afford ! Our top four are always specialist batsmen. None form there can keep or bowl. What a luxury ! Him being there will break that monopoly. He is already a better batsman than the other options at no.4, and on top of that, his off spin is very under rated and underused by Shakib. So, now, we have our no4-5, who are also very good spin options, which will actually let us include a specialist bowler/ all rounder down the order.
5. A no.4 has to keep the RR going, should have the ability to play with tail. He has shown that in the past.

If I was the Coach, not only I would play him every game, but I will make sure he gets ample chances at no.4. Somebody needs to recognize the game he has and the value that he can bring being the no.4 batsman. Of course, he is a very good test batsman. He showed it in NZ and against India in varied conditions. Class oozed from some of his shots. He will be my test no.5. Sakib will follow him at 6.
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  #18  
Old April 9, 2011, 02:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by revolver
What's the point of us saying where him to bat.. What we want never happens

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good point
moner shaanti jonno

BTW didn't Ryad miss 2 catches today?
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  #19  
Old April 9, 2011, 03:27 PM
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Do nothing... Let him do well first. Remember, we kicked him out of XI few times because of poor performance. The idea of "he is best suited at number 4" is valid but not realistic. We kicked Nayeem out of XI for the same problem. He is also best suited for number 4 spot. The problem is that there are too many cricketers best suited for number 4 spot or 5 or 3. I think the policy is to play your way up, and I don't disagree with this policy. However I am also sympathetic to Ryad and Naeem beucause they cannot fit in number 6 or 7 and the management won't play them in 4 or 5 spots. Unless they play really well, I don't think or won't be a good idea to move them up. If they do really well at number 6 or 7 and good players usually do, I am sure Mushfiq will be replaced by them. Until then they just need to concentrate.
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Old April 9, 2011, 03:34 PM
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The thread title is mis-leading. It could better be what do we do with Riad, simply, or, what do we do with our batting order problem?

Definitely the player in context is not the problem.
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Old April 9, 2011, 03:54 PM
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One solution: Kick rakibul out and play riyad at 4.
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  #22  
Old April 9, 2011, 04:25 PM
Imtiazk Imtiazk is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Catskills
Do nothing... Let him do well first. Remember, we kicked him out of XI few times because of poor performance. The idea of "he is best suited at number 4" is valid but not realistic. We kicked Nayeem out of XI for the same problem. He is also best suited for number 4 spot. The problem is that there are too many cricketers best suited for number 4 spot or 5 or 3. I think the policy is to play your way up, and I don't disagree with this policy. However I am also sympathetic to Ryad and Naeem beucause they cannot fit in number 6 or 7 and the management won't play them in 4 or 5 spots. Unless they play really well, I don't think or won't be a good idea to move them up. If they do really well at number 6 or 7 and good players usually do, I am sure Mushfiq will be replaced by them. Until then they just need to concentrate.
Actually, I can see Nayeem in the ODI side but, with respect, not at No.4. In fact, he could quite well play where Riyad is playing now.

Riyad should be our No.4. Period. With the brittle nature of our batting we need to give someone enough time to solidify the innings. Rakibul was supposed to do that. In the sub-continent or in the West Indies, I would like to see him bowl most of his 10 overs too !
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  #23  
Old April 9, 2011, 08:47 PM
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Imtiaz bhai, really good point. Rakibul at no. 4 is absolutely hopeless. He just has gear 1. He might save us from a few sub-150 scores, but he will never be a top 2 contributing batsman in a win. The alternative no. 4 used being Ash...well, he...ya. So Riyad should bat there.

No.3 is also a weak point for us. Jahurul should be given an extended go for 2/3 series in that spot. Shahriar Nafees looks too weak, and once he plays there at no. 3 for three matches against the Aussies, we would probably have to get rid of him. He did earn a recall though with a lot of hard work.

I also do not get the point of playing Razzak anymore. The guy only has an average of 30 or below against England, Australia and West Indies. Including SA (39.5), the rest are all over 40 against test playing countries. Exception is Zimbabwe, against whom he has an average of 15 with over 50 wickets. It should be a choice between him and Shuvo. Btw, neither can bat. But Shuvo fields very well according to everyone's testaments. And he hasn't got many chances.

Obviously Mashrafee cannot be included in our future plans just because of his horrendous injury records. If he does manage to get fit after the surgery though and plays 6-7 of domestic/A-team matches, we can see, but as a 3rd seamer.

Here's my future Bangladesh team. I am not going all out and getting new ones. Just changing the orders.

1. Tamim Iqbal (LH)
2. Imrul Kayes
3. Jahurul Islam
4. Mahmudullah Riyad (RH)
5. Sakib Al-Hasan (LH)
6. Naeem Islam
7. Suhrawardi Shuvo (taking spot of Razzak)
8. Dhiman Ghosh(wk) (this guy CAN keep; enough with hopeless bits & pieces players/wk)
9. Nazmul Hossain
10. Shafiul Islam
11. Rubel Hossain

3, 6 7, 8 are the spots that will be volatile. Kapali does not sound like the same Kapali. We'll see. The other one who scored a duck in the practice game (forgetting his name now) sounds very promising as well. Nur and Nasir Hossain should wait two years. Maisukur might get a look in as well in two years depending on how good he keeps playing. Most importantly, no Rakib or Ash in the team (ODI or tests). No Nafees if he doesn't have the right technique.
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  #24  
Old April 9, 2011, 09:09 PM
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Thank you very much for opening this thread!!!!!
This was my biggest concern for the longest time... i hope someone takes care of this issue!
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  #25  
Old April 9, 2011, 10:51 PM
affan_ayan affan_ayan is offline
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Mahmud Ullah is a bits and pieces player. As a spinner he is no where Shakib. As a ODI batsman, Mahmud Ullah is no where near Shakib.

Also, M Ullah like Mushfiq is not a top-order basman because against good fast bowling he wont last.

In our top-order batsman, only Tamim can survive against top quality bowling. The other one was Ash, but he is a headless chicken. MUllah is never been a tiger.

So far I see tiger could be Tamim/Shakib/Safiul in the current team. May be we should look into Kapali/Shuvagoto at 6/7. Our #3/#4 batsman can be Raqibul (only defense but can't rotate), Ashraful and Jahurul. We should let Jahurul try now since Ash/Raqibul is not meeting ODI standard.
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