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  #26  
Old August 25, 2011, 05:16 PM
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kazis2007 kazis2007 is offline
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Imrul is ok untill we get a better replacement for him.
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  #27  
Old August 25, 2011, 07:31 PM
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reyme reyme is offline
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Lets see, I have 5 pilots in the wings.
Lets Pilot 1 fly. He is okay but not great.
Lets drop Pilot 1 and try Pilot 2. Pilot 2 totally fails.
Try Pilot 3, he is okay, but not consistent. So drop him.
Pilot 4,5 are even worse. Drop them permanently.
Try Pilot 1. Repeat everyhting....

Point is it does not matter who you like or hate, to get the best Pilot you need the best instructor/coach.

First get the best coaches in place, that should be the starting point. Otherwise it will always be a musical chair game.
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  #28  
Old August 25, 2011, 07:44 PM
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rinathq rinathq is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reyme
Lets see, I have 5 pilots in the wings.
Lets Pilot 1 fly. He is okay but not great.
Lets drop Pilot 1 and try Pilot 2. Pilot 2 totally fails.
Try Pilot 3, he is okay, but not consistent. So drop him.
Pilot 4,5 are even worse. Drop them permanently.
Try Pilot 1. Repeat everyhting....

Point is it does not matter who you like or hate, to get the best Pilot you need the best instructor/coach.

First get the best coaches in place, that should be the starting point. Otherwise it will always be a musical chair game.
dunt agree with the best coach part. U cant really say that, "he is the best coach" and "the other one sucks"
Yes you need to have a full coaching staff who are capable of developing skills and consistency.
And if the players dont work hard themselves, even the worlds "best" coaches wont make any difference
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  #29  
Old August 25, 2011, 08:02 PM
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reyme reyme is offline
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True. But a good coach will create backup teams with backup players.
Ideally he should have 3 teams of players. Players will be bound to work hard to keep their places.

Trust me a good coach can do wonders. I am sure you watch NFL or College Football.
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  #30  
Old August 25, 2011, 08:08 PM
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rinathq rinathq is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reyme
True. But a good coach will create backup teams with backup players.
Ideally he should have 3 teams of players. Players will be bound to work hard to keep their places.

Trust me a good coach can do wonders. I am sure you watch NFL or College Football.
What u are talking about is a development coach like Ross Turner who will create a good base by working in academy/ domestic level.

I dont watch either of those but i do watch NHL where GMs, Coach, Assistant coach, Skills Training coach all work together to bring rapid improvements at times. not happening with BCB
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  #31  
Old August 26, 2011, 06:34 AM
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ক্রিকেট-সংস্কৃতির বিকাশ চাই

আবুল মোমেন | তারিখ: ২১-০৮-২০১১

আমি একটু বেশি সংস্কৃতি-সংস্কৃতি করে থাকি। আমি মনে করি, রাজনীতি, শিক্ষা, ক্রীড়া, স্বাস্থ্য এসবই ধারণ ও লালন করে থাকে সেই বিষয়ের সংস্কৃতি। শিক্ষার প্রসঙ্গে এ কথাটা রবীন্দ্রনাথ বলেছেন।
ওপরের সব ক্ষেত্রেই আমাদের যেসব সাফল্য আছে—মুক্তিযুদ্ধ ও স্বাধীনতাসহ—সবই আমাদের ভূমিকায় আজ বিচ্ছিন্ন ঘটনা যেন। কারণ, অর্জনগুলোকে ধারাবাহিকতার মাধ্যমে স্থায়িত্ব দিতে ও বিকশিত করতে পারিনি। এর কারণ আমি বলব, সাংস্কৃতিক দৈন্য ও অসচেতনতা।
যেকোনো বিষয়ই নিয়মিত চর্চা ও ভালোবাসার বন্ধনেই ক্রমে জীবন যাপনের অংশ হয়ে ওঠে। আর এটাই হলো সংস্কৃতি। সাংস্কৃতিক বন্ধন ও বাতাবরণ তৈরি না হলে সবকিছুই ব্যক্তিগত এবং বস্তুগত লাভালাভের মানদণ্ডে ভোগেই শেষ হয়।
অসুস্থ প্রতিযোগিতা কেবল রাজনীতিতেই সীমাবদ্ধ নয়, স্বাচিপ-ড্যাবের মৌরসিপাট্টা কায়েমের কাণ্ড দেখুন, শিক্ষকদের হলুদ-নীলের তামাশা দেখুন। এভাবে চললে বিভিন্ন ক্ষেত্রে এক-দুজন তারকা বেরিয়ে আসতে পারে; কিন্তু বেশি ঘটবে কায়েমি স্বার্থবাদী ক্ষমতাধর ব্যক্তির উত্থান।
অন্যান্য ক্ষেত্রের দুর্বলতার মতো আমাদের ক্রিকেটও এই দুর্বলতা নিয়েই চলছে। জিম্বাবুয়ে ছয় বছরে তার ক্রিকেট-সংস্কৃতির ভিত শক্ত করেছে—সেখানে সাদা-কালোরা একসঙ্গে কাজ করছে।
বলতে কি, সদ্য সমাপ্ত লজ্জার টেস্টটিতে বাংলাদেশের প্রথম ইনিংসে তরুণ ভিটরির বল দেখেই বুঝেছি বাংলাদেশের জন্য খেলাটা সহজ হবে না। পেশাদারি মনোভাব ও তারকা মনোভাবের মধ্যে যোজন যোজন পার্থক্য। তারকা তো তোয়াজে অভ্যস্ত, আত্মমুগ্ধ মানুষ, তাই খেয়ালি, অন্যদের ব্যাপার, এমনকি সহখেলোয়াড়, দল, দেশ তাদের মাথায় একযোগে কাজ করে না। বিচ্ছিন্নভাবে নিজের খেলা নিয়ে আত্মমগ্ন মানুষ পূর্বাপর অবস্থা বুঝে নিজের ভূমিকা নির্ধারণ করতে পারে না। গত টেস্টে আমাদের প্রধান ব্যাটসম্যান আশরাফুল, সাকিব, তামিমদের আউটগুলো দেখুন।
ক্রিকেট ঠিক ফুটবলের মতো গতি, শক্তি, দক্ষতা অর্থাৎ প্রধানত শরীরী-কুশলতানির্ভর খেলা নয়। ওয়ানডে, টি-টোয়েন্টিতে সেটা কিছুটা চলতে পারে; কিন্তু টেস্ট ম্যাচে মাথা খাটিয়ে দলের কৌশল ঠিক করতে হয় আর প্রতিটি পর্যায়ে প্রত্যেক খেলোয়াড়দের করণীয় ঠিক করতে হয়। কোনো কোনো পর্যায়ে ব্যাটিংয়ে প্রায় বলে বলে কৌশল-করণীয় ঠিক করতে হয়।
সে জন্য ক্রিকেটে দলপতি এক বিশেষ ব্যক্তি, সত্যিকারের নেতা, অভিভাবক এবং তাঁকে সামনে থেকে নেতৃত্ব দিতে হয়, প্রয়োজনে প্রচণ্ড চাপ নেওয়ার ক্ষমতা থাকতে হয় তাঁর। ওয়েস্ট ইন্ডিজের ফ্রাঙ্ক ওরেল, অস্ট্রেলিয়ার রিচি বেনো, শ্রীলঙ্কার অর্জুনা রানাতুঙ্গা, ইংল্যান্ডের পিটার মে এ রকম কয়েকজন অধিনায়ক।
যতদূর বুঝতে পারছি, হয়তো অকুস্থলে থেকে উৎপল শুভ্র আরও ভালো বুঝতে পারবেন, জিম্বাবুয়ে দলের এই পুনর্গঠন ও পুনরুজ্জীবনের পেছনে সাবেক ক্রিকেটারত্রয়ী আলিস্টার ক্যাম্পবেল, হিথ্ স্ট্রিক এবং গ্রান্ট ফ্লাওয়ারের দারুণ ভূমিকা ছিল। তাঁরা নিশ্চয় ঘরোয়া ক্রিকেটকে ফলপ্রসূভাবে সাজিয়েছেন। সেটা আমাদের জানা দরকার।
যদি ক্রিকেট-সংস্কৃতিতে সমৃদ্ধ পেশাদারি মনোবৃত্তির মানুষেরা ক্রিকেট প্রশাসনে যুক্ত না হন, সরকার যদি তাঁদের যথাযথ সমর্থন না জোগান, তাহলে যে দু-চারজন প্রতিভাবান খেলোয়াড় উঠে আসছেন জেলাশহর থেকে, তাঁরা হয় হাউই বাজির মতো অকালে ফুরিয়ে যাবে, নয়তো ‘কি হনুরে’ ভাব নিয়ে বখে যাবে। আর বাংলাদেশের ক্রিকেট মার্কটাইম করে যাবে, সামনে এগোবার জন্য মার্চ পাস্ট করা হবে না। গত ৪ আগস্ট থেকে ৮ আগস্ট পর্যন্ত সোয়া চার দিন স্থায়ী টেস্টে জিম্বাবুয়ে দলের মার্চ পাস্ট দেখতে দেখতে হতাশা ও লজ্জায় ডুবে যাচ্ছিলাম।
পেছন থেকে এসে আমাদের ছাড়িয়ে যাওয়ার কাহিনি অবশ্য নতুন নয়। প্রায়ই আফসোস শুনি, মালয়েশিয়া, থাইল্যান্ড, ভিয়েতনাম তো এই ষাট-সত্তরের দশকেও আমাদের পেছনে ছিল। আজ আমাদের ছাপিয়ে কোথায় গেছে!
ঝগড়া-ঝাঁটি, খেয়োখেয়ি আর দখলবাজিতে ব্যস্ত থাকলে এ রকমই হওয়ার কথা। অর্থাৎ যা হওয়ার তাই হচ্ছে।
বাঙালির মনে সংস্কৃতি নিয়ে গর্ব আছে, জানি আমাদের রবীন্দ্র, নজরুল, লালন আছেন। সবই ঠিক। আসলে তাঁদের আজীবনের সাধনার যে ফসলগুলো আমাদের কাছে পৌঁছায় সেগুলো হলো শিল্পকলা, যা আবার ব্যক্তিকে শিল্পী ও তারকা বানায়। আমরা কি স্কুল-কলেজে, পাড়ায়-এলাকায়, পরিবার-সমাজে, জীবনে-চিন্তনে তাঁদের চিন্তা-চেতনা-দর্শনকে ধারণ-লালন করি? করি না। ফলে আমরা কেউ বা হয়ে পড়ছি ভূঁইফোড় আর কেউ সাংস্কৃতিক উদ্বাস্তু। একদল প্রদর্শন করছে ক্ষমতার রোয়াব আরেক দল মূর্খতার জ্যাঠামি।
অন্য খেলার চেয়ে ক্রিকেট একটু বেশি সংস্কৃতি-মনস্ক। এর ইতিহাস ও অর্জনগুলো, বিশেষ বিশেষ ব্যক্তিত্বদের জানা না থাকলে, সে নিয়ে আবেগ ও গর্ব তৈরি না হলে ক্রিকেটের সঙ্গে সাংস্কৃতিক যোগটা ঘটবে না। আর সে যোগটা ঘটলে নিজের সামর্থ্য, দলের প্রয়োজন, খেলার সেই সময়ে নিজের ভূমিকা কী হওয়া উচিত, তা ভাবার মন তৈরি হবে। নয়তো সবাই সব সময় ভিভ্ রিচার্ডস-মার্কা রংদার ব্যাটিং করে গ্যালারি মাতানোর ফাঁদে পা দেবে। বুঝবেই না যে ক্রিকেটের ইতিহাসে ভিভ্ রিচার্ডস গন্ডায় গন্ডায় আসেনি, একদলে একসঙ্গে থাকার প্রশ্নই ওঠে না।
অল্পতেই আমাদের খেলোয়াড়দের মনোযোগ নষ্ট হচ্ছে, পথ হারাচ্ছে, খেই হারাচ্ছে তারা। কী রকম নীরবে অলক্ষ্যে আলিস্টার কুক করেছে ১৯টি টেস্ট সেঞ্চুরি! আমাদের নিত্য খবর হওয়া, প্রচার পাওয়া তামিম-আশরাফুলরা কবে ১০টি টেস্ট সেঞ্চুরি করবেন?
সত্যি কি একটি মানসম্পন্ন টেস্ট দল তৈরি করতে পারছি আমরা? জুনায়েদ-রিয়াদ-নাঈমরা কি টেস্ট মানের ব্যাটসম্যান?
ইংল্যান্ডের নয় নম্বর ব্রডেরও বিশাল সেঞ্চুরি আছে টেস্টে। বোলারদের থাকে ঘরোয়া ক্রিকেটে ডবল সেঞ্চুরি হাঁকানোর রেকর্ড। নিজের খেলা তো নিজেকেই খেলতে হবে। ১০ বছরে তো নজরে পড়ার মতো অগ্রগতি হওয়া উচিত ছিল। কই, তার কোনো লক্ষণ আছে!
এ অবস্থায় আবারও বলব—সংস্কৃতি সংস্কৃতি সংস্কৃতি। ক্রিকেট-সংস্কৃতির চর্চা ও প্রসার ব্যতীত উন্নতির কোনো কারণ নেই, ধারাবাহিকতা অর্জনের সুযোগ নেই।


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  #32  
Old August 28, 2011, 07:53 AM
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Avik Avik is offline
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I wanted to open a thread about our test cricket, but this thread seems perfect.

I feel I deserve more.


Watching last Ashes, and watching this India England Series, I sighed in sorrow. When can our players be this relentless? When can our players turn around at the sight of adversity in cricket's purest form? For years i have stuck with the team that is picked and for years I have cheered them on. I might not be the most active of fans, and I do not have time to watch every ball bowled. In fact, I do not always watch Bangladesh play. But I keep track of the scores, and watch games. I will not watch inconsequential games like Holland playing Bangladesh, or Pakistan playing West Indies for that matter. To me, I will keep track of every international game played, and I will follow every Bangladesh game like a zealot. I will watch matches of Bangladesh if I have the time and scope. (Used to be an engineering student, now an employed engineer, so I do not always have the scope). There are thousands of fans like me, who will support the team no matter what, and who will not jump up and down in Hujug. So I am not unique in any sense. Nor am I claiming to be. Also, I am no true expert of the game, like many here.
That’s about me. Wanted to show you where I am coming from.

This team (after the ICL exodus to now on wards) has been our best team of all time. It lacks certain skill aspects, our bowling is not our strongest in history maybe, but we still have one world class bowler, couple world class batsmen. In ODIs, we can beat any team in the world in our day, and that doesn’t always require the other team to falter. In ODIs, we are a respected outfit, and expectations from our team have risen even at internationally. And we do our bit.

But to me, Test cricket is the purest form of the game. It tests the mental toughness. I could never watch test cricket without substance before. Maybe the exciting parts. One of the earlier days I started loving test cricket was a specific match I can remember. or the final two sessions. I remember Pakistan England Test Series in 2001. It was this match in particular.

http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/63933.html

Pakistan was 1-0 down going into the final match of the series, and it came down to the final two sessions. Wasim and Waqar, along with Saqlain dismantled the English batting line up in the final hours, fighting against time to draw level in the series. As I watched that as a teenager, I wondered, when will our team perform like that?

I did not have to wait long. In came Multan. I was supposed to be in school that final day. for those of you don't remember,
http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/64045.html

I bunked school, which was a serious thing for my upbringing with strict parents. but that didn't matter! Our team was at last so close to the Promised Land! When the 8th fell for 207 or so, I was overjoyed! When the 9th fell at 257, I was screaming crazily! Could not believe it! Just could not! When Inzamam stole the game, I was disheartened. but i was proud of our team.

I was even prouder when they pushed Australia to the brink. Shahadat was bouncing ponting again and again, and I was amazed at the heart of this guy! Now that was a fast bowler, not the weak kind we generally see in our team. No no. this guy was of different breed overall. For those of you needing a reminder, it was in Fatullah.
http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/238171.html

This was our finest hour. We pounded the world beaters for 3 days, and we pounded them even at adversity, to the near brink of defeat. But it was not to be! I loved when we beat Zimbabwe and grinded out almost a day and a half to win the test series, but that was a severely weakened Zimbabwe team, and that was not our finest hour.

The next entry in here, I gave up on Bangladesh at the near impossible target of 521. I gave up indeed, and I only watched the last day. To be honest, I was back in Bangladesh for 14 days after 1 and a half years, for my brother’s wedding, and I was very busy with the wedding duties. But I watched the final day as Bangladesh played better and better, and Mahela Jayawardene was growing more and more worried. A defeat to Bangladesh was ignominious, but a defeat to Bangladesh after setting a target of 521 runs, would be ignominy of historical proportions. We all know what happened. Shakib fell to a small mistake, missing his deserved maiden test century and we collapsed. At one point we were 400 odd for 6, and with Shakib and Mushfiq in wicket, we were 100 runs away from a ground shattering victory. But it wasn’t to be.

http://www.espncricinfo.com/bdeshvsl...ch/378750.html

We were not ready probably.

I watched the team triumph against West Indies, whitewashing West Indies at only their second tour of the country, I knew that this will always be us playing against a 3rd string side. And this will not indicate anything. But we have achieved something in these many years. Yes we did. The absence of criticism from the former test players is the biggest achievement actually. But as a cricket fan, as I grew, I crave more these days. A century or a five wicket haul, or a decent performance does not quench my thirst for success from this team. And I no longer support any other team this passionately. Used to support Pakistan, long time back, but then came that tour in 2003, where I saw how the so called “Boro Bhai”s to us tried to show our team in bad light, criticizing and playing dirty, even cheating so that they could win. And I was disillusioned with the Pakistan team. Hated that team since. I admire some players, outside our team. Virendar Sehwag is one of the players. I still love his stroke play. But when he called our team ordinary, it hurt. And our team stung back, bundling the no. 1 batting line up for 243! It was Shahadat and Shakib. The two world class bowler we had. Don’t know whether Shahadat is still in world class shape anymore.

All this is just a summary of our history in test cricket. What I feel I write here. I feel I am tired of losing. I am tired of the immature showing from our team. 6 years ago in England, when we beat Australia in an ODI, everyone said, give this team 5 years, they will show you. Time has passed, and we are still the young team. We are at a crossroads. Not the road up, but the road down in my eyes. A proper step taken, would possibly take our team up, competing and beating (yes beating) the likes of Pakistan, Sri Lanka, and even the world beating England side. But if we make wholesale changes, we will go down from here. If we don’t make any changes, we will go down from here. Before I give my two penny worth, I want to say, I am tired of losing again. I am tired of our team taking us to the brink, and losing again. When will that day come when our team will win, and no one can say we won because the team was weak? And yes, I am only talking about the purest form of the game.

We have a world class player, a player if he played in any other team, by now, would have been pronounced as a potential great of our time. And be a contender for an all-time great position maybe within 7-10 years. But because he plays for Bangladesh, people outside this country doesn’t give him due credit. They will say, he is just decent. The fact that he has a 5 wicket haul against almost all the countries he has played against, (4 wickets against Sri Lanka, and Zimbabwe doesn’t count as he played only one test against them) the fact that he carries our attack for the last 3 years, like Hadlee did for New Zealand doesn’t count for much. What do we do with this guy? We as a country are pounding him, ultimately what will happen is, he will retire at an early age, and we will lose him. We will have non performing so called best talents ever in our team forever. But we will lose the mediocre (???!!!) consistent performers like Shakib.

Coming back to topic, I am tired of losing. I really am. I feel like pulling away from Bangladesh cricket, and don’t care. I have been sitting for that last couple of weeks after our test loss, and the only thing I can think off, how the heck? How the heck did we perform so immaturely against Zimbabwe? We need a very very guided planning staff from here on if we want to take the road up. If more of the same goes on, we will once again reset to become the 10th ranking team. We will win ODIs here and there, but we will never become contenders.

Some smart planning can take us up. I won’t insult the cricketing knowledge of the many here with trying to describe the actual details of the plan. They know it better. Many things are being said here, which is good planning.

But all I wanted to say, I am severely disappointed with this team now, and ODI series wins against Zimbabwe will no longer cut it for me. I want more. I feel I deserve more. As a fan, as a Bangladeshi cricket follower, as a Bangladeshi, I feel I deserve more from this team. And they have the capability, it isn’t that they do not. They very much have the capability to win test matches. But their lack of vision is preventing them. Team selection policies crippling us in 2-3 slots in our team. And the media is ever so active to kill the golden egg giving goose. What more is needed? Kicking out our captain, and making god’s gift from Utpal Shuvro the captain will complete the circle, and then we can lose our potential at becoming world beaters, and become world battered.

I feel I deserve more for my limited attention. I really believe I do.
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  #33  
Old August 28, 2011, 07:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by al Furqaan
My Test squad:

Imrul (last chance)
Tamim
Junaid (why does he keep getting picked in ODIs?)
Ashraful
Shahriar Nafees
Shakib
Mushfiq
Riyad
Shafiul
Shahadat
Rubel

Enamul Jr
Naeem
Shuvo
Hom/Nasir/Jahirul
I agree with this squad. Junaid is one of our top batsmen in test cricket, yet our selectors keep selecting him in ODIs only. I hate the fact that ODI performance rules our test cricket selection policies. I believe Riyad can be a good option as the second spinner and can be groomed to become more than a part timer with the ball.
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  #34  
Old August 28, 2011, 08:05 AM
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I think we are over reacting a bit here. If you look at our test performance over the past 2 years, you will a very promising upward trend, instead of losing a game on the 3rd day we have pushed the top 2 test teams to the 5th day multiple times. We went to New Zealand and played till the 5th day, compare this to a time when we used to jump in joy when we reached 200 in New Zealand.

Understandably our bowling needs to be sharpened, but I think our test batting has improved significantly under Jamie Siddons[hence why I loved that guy] and if we can keep that up we will be drawing tests at home against any opponent. It will start with drawing at home, then drawing away, then winning at home and then winning away. It's still a long journey, but I guess we have started now.

And before everyone jumps on and brings the Zim test into the arguement, I see the Zim test[and the tour] as an outlier. Poor preparation and undermining the opponent cost us hugely here. However despite the new found life of Zimbabwe, i would still back Bangladesh to beat Zim 4 times out of 5 in any condition.
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  #35  
Old August 28, 2011, 08:46 AM
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my point is, I am not satisfied with what we are getting now. we have been closing in on a draw quite often for the last 2-3 years, but not getting it. that shows our immaturity. something has to change. as for Zimbabwe, they took test cricket seriously, while we did not. and they do have a talented team, with proper planning, ensured the win.
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  #36  
Old August 28, 2011, 01:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Avik
my point is, I am not satisfied with what we are getting now. we have been closing in on a draw quite often for the last 2-3 years, but not getting it. that shows our immaturity. something has to change. as for Zimbabwe, they took test cricket seriously, while we did not. and they do have a talented team, with proper planning, ensured the win.
If Bangladesh wins the next 10 test matches and than loose 3, we will not be satisfied. It is human nature. No one is satisfied at this moment. But i think there are adjustments to be made on both sides. As players obviously they need to pull up their game and start to work towards winnings the games rather than being happy with "respectful defeats"

Fans all need to hold their expectation a little lower from where it is. Out of nowhere without knowing much about this Zimbabwean team, we all expected a complete sweep. Yes according to our previous matchups, we can expect that, but most of the fans seemed to take it for granted that we will outperform them. We needed to realize that we are a younger test nation, we barely have a coaching staff and even the ones we have joined in weeks time. Our country wasn't suitable for lots of practice due to rainy season and cost for practicing away was also not financially viable (I assume)
One series can be a fluke. It doesnt take away the fact that how much our team has improved in last 2 years. Until last year, we didnt beat England in like 17 matchups. Guess what? Last 4 games between these 2 teams, its tied 2-2! Thats a big improvement.

we need to adjust our expectation. Suddenly out of nowhere we are thinking about innings defeats when not long ago we were happy with respectable defeats. Our players are trying. They could have gone for the draw against Zimbabwe but they went the harder way and failed. It shows that their mindset have somewhat changed.
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  #37  
Old August 28, 2011, 08:05 PM
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again, as per this thread, my expectation is about test cricket. I am satisfied somewhat by our ODI performance. in fact, you can never say whether we will win or not these days. thats sth.

but for test cricket, as i said, i am tired of not even achieving the draws after grinding out 5 days. this has happened quite a bit in the last 2 years. i just feel they could have/should have drawn a couple of those missed chances to draw a test match. there lies my frustration.

like many fans, i will cross my fingers and hope for the best against west indies.
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  #38  
Old August 28, 2011, 10:31 PM
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I kept hearing we are improving over the last decade... My impatient mind sometimes becomes restless these days seeing the same errors on repeat over the years. Could someone calculate approximately how many decades we have to wait till we learn how to draw test matches or win ICC tournaments in any format?

To me the term "improvement" is an intersting one. We have a much stronger team now then we did back in the days of Atahar, Opi, Rokon, Saiful Islam etc. So that basically proves that we have improved over the years. So why aren't we winning now?

In my opinion to think that if we continue to improve we will one day be successfull and start WINNING games is a very simplistic assumption. It is simplistic because it doesn't take into the account the possibility of other teams improving at a faster rate than us. If all other team [case in point: zimbabwe] starts improving at a greater rate also then it is very likely, given our current improvement rate, that we will never win any games consistently even though we might have a much stronger team than the current team, 10 years from now.
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Last edited by Jadukor; August 29, 2011 at 04:59 AM..
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  #39  
Old August 29, 2011, 04:33 AM
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we went a couple of steps forward after our good performance in england but after this zim series, we have gone 3 steps backward
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  #40  
Old August 30, 2011, 08:11 PM
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BANFAN BANFAN is offline
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Quote:
The batting attack has always been a problem and it will remain so for a long time.
@ rinathq: Your post is absolutely fine and I have same feelings. I think most of the fans do share the concern.

But that very word 'Batting Attack" is the root cause of damaging our attitude in the test cricket. We expected them as Fans/Admins to attack with bat and players also tried the same. Unfortunately if we would have tried to learn defence with the bat first and perform well through a defensive mindset for last 10+ years, that would have established us in test cricket by now.

We wanted to skip that step.... but that's the first step... In fact we tried and are trying to learn to run before learning to walk, that has been our main problem. And I'm equally guilty of that attitude to some extent, like majority of the fans.

JO, Rajin, Rok type of players were always dumped for playing slow... but those were the kind of attitude we needed to succeed in test and we should have continued with them to inspire youngstars to follow them. That attitude with a better skill of being able to do it repeatedly, was the kind of players we needed. But we discouraged the youngstars by removing them. and replaced them with ODI/T20 type batsmen & expected them to play well in test cricket.

Have a look at the indian team of pre 70s/pre 80s... almost every player was like JO/RS, but with better consistancy ... then the next generation learnt to attack along with that patient attutude. They didn't try to produce shehwag before producing a Gavaskar/Veng.

So, its not only the young players who are at fault...they tend to do things the way their environment demands. We demanded/encouraged/forced them to attack with bats instead of encouraging them to defend with a bat. Yes, attack is the best form of defense, but you have to first learn orthodox defence for having a solid knowledge & ability to defend. Or the armies would stop teaching/learning defence & started to teach only offense/attack as the best form of defence.

And we talk about having a culture of cricket to survive in test cricket, from where it will come? Aren't we the fans/board etc an integral part of building that culture? We think that the players alone should build that culture while we keep expecting the wrong things and display wrong attitude as fans and administrators.

Lets get our expectations right as fans first, before pointing fingers at the players. They will obviously follow the trend to get into the national team. If only attacking can get them into the team, then they will all try to do that, isn't it?
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Last edited by BANFAN; August 31, 2011 at 01:16 AM..
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  #41  
Old September 1, 2011, 10:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BANFAN
JO, Rajin, Rok type of players were always dumped for playing slow... but those were the kind of attitude we needed to succeed in test and we should have continued with them to inspire youngstars to follow them. That attitude with a better skill of being able to do it repeatedly, was the kind of players we needed. But we discouraged the youngstars by removing them. and replaced them with ODI/T20 type batsmen & expected them to play well in test cricket.
I do not think JO, Rajin, Rok were dumped for being slow. Team management knew their role and we, fans knew it too. Yes many of us fans may have been annoyed with their batting approach but our voices do not decide who gets picked or who doesn't... its their own performance that has lead to their downfall.

My memory is already fuzzy about the first two so lets look at Rok as an example. He was in charge of playing cautiously and hold the innings together and play a big innings. The expectation from him was not to attack but to play for long periods. With the numurous chances he got, all he eventually ended up doing was to eat up a lot of deliveries...kill any momentum created by Tamim while getting out for a low score. Our batting situation is so bad if Roqibul had been even remotely consistent he would have survived. I mean look at the competition he has!... Junaid and Ashraful and Nafees! These are not the type of performers one would lose sleep over. It was Rok's disastrous ODI series against NZ, WC that sealed his fate for him.
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  #42  
Old September 2, 2011, 06:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jadukor
I do not think JO, Rajin, Rok were dumped for being slow. Team management knew their role and we, fans knew it too. Yes many of us fans may have been annoyed with their batting approach but our voices do not decide who gets picked or who doesn't... its their own performance that has lead to their downfall.

My memory is already fuzzy about the first two so lets look at Rok as an example. He was in charge of playing cautiously and hold the innings together and play a big innings. The expectation from him was not to attack but to play for long periods. With the numurous chances he got, all he eventually ended up doing was to eat up a lot of deliveries...kill any momentum created by Tamim while getting out for a low score. Our batting situation is so bad if Roqibul had been even remotely consistent he would have survived. I mean look at the competition he has!... Junaid and Ashraful and Nafees! These are not the type of performers one would lose sleep over. It was Rok's disastrous ODI series against NZ, WC that sealed his fate for him.
It was the mindset that needed to be promoted for test cricket. I know they were not consistent and neither were others. So they were basically penalized for slowish nature of play. I think u failed to get the point.

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Old September 2, 2011, 08:43 AM
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Rocks mindset is good for tests. He can bat for long periods of time which you need for test cricket but he's really got a long ways to go as an international class batsman. With that sort of technique, he's just gonna continue to be a batsman that will score 30-40 runs and then get outplayed and get out. Even though he's known as the Rock for batting stable, he has trouble even defending decent deliveries that attack his stumps, which should be his strong suit since he's a defensive style batsman. It does help though that we still lack decent batsmen and so Rock will not be ruled out for a while until we get better batsmen.

I do think that we should develop him for tests. We still lack players that have solid temperament and are willing to stick it out. I feel that developing guys like Mushy and Rock for tests could reap rewards for us in the longest format. And while he's had a poor start to his test career, its still not enough tests to really rule him out for good. Remember that he played a very crucial innings with Shakib to get us home in the 2nd test. He negotiated Roach really well despite others struggling in that match. So it shows he's got something there but he's gotta really polish his batting up so he can be more consistent. I don't really see him offering much for ODIs since Mushy is very similar. But for tests, he should stay in my opinion.

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