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  #1  
Old September 9, 2011, 12:33 AM
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Default Hypocritical?

I cant help but feel most members here are being hypocritcal....seriously, when we lost to zimbabwe, i was defending shakib, but i remember clearly many many, infact most of them, in support of shakib being relieved of captaincy, not impressed with captaincy issues, he shouldnt be a leader due to his misdemeanours....but now when he actually isnt, suddenly, everyone starts going against.....alright, i know bcb took a hasty decision, but in the end, u guys got what u wanted right...and remember, mushfique was the captain since age level cricket captaining shakib and tamim when they all were in teens, and we had the best youth team under mushfiqur, i was always in support of mushfiqur after shakib...now maybe its just a blessing in disguise, shak will go all out to prove his greatness, although i wanted him to be captain, but if shak can deliver even more than he was as a captain, then i think we wont have any problems, and mushfiqur was a captain for a reason, and in most decisons on field, mushfqir is the first person shakib consults with....can just be the different little tweaks we required for a perfect team combination...overall...tamim and shakib will have to now face lesser attention is the biggest plus i think to come out of their sacking, or every other time, their comments as capt and v captain would have been scrutinized and bc members would have talked again how they dont deserve to be captain and v cpatain, ironic indeed, or i dare say, hypocritcal??!!
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  #2  
Old September 9, 2011, 08:37 AM
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Exactly. I remember after 3rd or 4th Zim ODI we had a thread about making Mushfiqur the captain. A lot of people agreed on it but now everyone is going against it.
  #3  
Old September 9, 2011, 08:55 AM
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we go by the flow of the moment..typical Bangali behavior
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  #4  
Old September 9, 2011, 09:03 AM
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Hujuge Bangali..Few more missed stumping and this honey moon period will be over. ( I hope that will not be the case)
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  #5  
Old September 9, 2011, 09:24 AM
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i always had issues against shakib's captaincy and always hoped for a better replacement soon. he has been axed now but i feel it's been done the wrong way. right decision implemented in a wrong way
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  #6  
Old September 9, 2011, 09:35 AM
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I have an always will be Shakib all the way....
  #7  
Old September 9, 2011, 09:43 AM
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I am always with Shakib for his captaincy/game etc [even with his arrogancy] ..... but Mushy is my ONLY OTHER captain. They are good friends and most of the performing players played under him before.
  #8  
Old September 9, 2011, 11:52 AM
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If you don't get best eleven even best captain in the world can't be successful. If Ash comes on no. 4
and make golden duck or 7 in 47 balls what will Mushfique do ? So captain should be more involved in team selection. Ganguli had that freedom and was successful. Same way Shakib was successful against NZ,WI and ZIMB. For success of the team and captain, UNDERPERFORMERS must be out of the team !!!
  #9  
Old September 9, 2011, 12:08 PM
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I always said Sakib is the best option we have , I got proof, witnesses.
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  #10  
Old September 9, 2011, 12:37 PM
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I was always for Shakib and will be until his performance on the field goes down the hill. I prefer to have a captain having attitude to fight till the end of the game irrespective of the opponents and be courageous enough to speak of his mind. That's why Saurav Ganguly, Steve Waugh and Imran Khan were successful during their time.

The CEOs of all big companies (e.g., Steve Jobs from Apple, Bill Gates from Microsoft or Larry Ellison from Oracle) are/were always arrogant but are/were focused on their plan. Sometimes they are/were ruthless but investors are happy to have them lead their respective company.

Shakib had a vision for our cricket and that's why he demanded for a long time commitment from the board. He had issues and attitudes which might NOT be liked. But, who cares? You are NOT planning to have him your relatives, right? As long as he performs well and lead the team from the front, eager to minimize his own personal issues, I don't have any problem. Well, some of those idiots in BCB are pure morons, expect more from him, I guess. Also, he might have upset some of those directors who are linked to Abahoni, consequently, he is forced to let go. The same is true for Tamim Iqbal as he irked so many Abahoni officials in the recent past.



I am happy to see responses from both Shakib and Tamim as they seem to understand the internal politics within BCB which they can’t control. I hope that they play positive and prove to the world that they are jewels to our team. If they do so, they will remain captain and vice-captain in the heart of millions of BD fans across the globe.

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  #11  
Old September 9, 2011, 12:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tiger_2007
I was always for Shakib and will be until his performance on the field goes down the hill. I prefer to have a captain having attitude to fight till the end of the game irrespective of the opponents and be courageous enough to speak of his mind. That's why Saurav Ganguly, Steve Waugh and Imran Khan were successful during their time.

The CEOs of all big companies (e.g., Steve Jobs from Apple, Bill Gates from Microsoft or Larry Ellison from Oracle) are/were always arrogant but are/were focused on their plan. Sometimes they are/were ruthless but investors are happy to have them lead their respective company.

Shakib had a vision for our cricket and that's why he demanded for a long time commitment from the board. He had issues and attitudes which might NOT be liked. But, who cares? You are NOT planning to have him your relatives, right? As long as he performs well and lead the team from the front, eager to minimize his own personal issues, I don't have any problem. Well, some of those idiots in BCB are pure morons, expect more from him, I guess. Also, he might have upset some of those directors who are linked to Abahoni, consequently, he is forced to let go. The same is true for Tamim Iqbal as he irked so many Abahoni officials in the recent past.



I am happy to see responses from both Shakib and Tamim as they seem to understand the internal politics within BCB which they can’t control. I hope that they play positive and prove to the world that they are jewels to our team. If they do so, they will remain captain and vice-captain in the heart of millions of BD fans across the globe.


  #12  
Old September 9, 2011, 01:21 PM
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this is funny.. not to long ago, m any among us wanted Jahirul or Dihman in place of Mushy.
now, Mushy for captain, no one knows what we really want.
  #13  
Old September 9, 2011, 08:20 PM
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I had a nickname for Shakib at Amadergaan. Captain Glorious. He brought Glory for our cricket and country.

i only support shakib being relieved off captaincy, to relieve pressure and prevent a burnout on the world beating talent name Shakib Al Hasan. I still believe he has been Bangladesh's best ever captain. tactically, statistically, smartness wise, every way.

and I know, he will be offered Captaincy in a few years, and he will be back. Bangladesh Cricket will benefit better than, because he will be damn ready for the job then.
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It is good to let Shakib off captaincy, it will relieve some pressure. He will be offered captaincy again in a few years when he will be more than ready, Bangladesh will voyage into a new horizon then
  #14  
Old September 10, 2011, 12:10 AM
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No one is here against Mushi...Everyone loves him...But the way BCB morons sacked him is politically ill and not fair. anyway I have enough said of that.
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Old September 10, 2011, 12:32 AM
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I don't feel people are being hypocritical. I just think they don't understand cricket. Add to this the flippant emotional immaturity of most BD fans and you have what you have.

The facts are there have been some awkward moments off the field under Sakib and some very large disappointments on it. His leadership style seemed to be "I am a good player, I am doing well and no blame lies with me if we lose as captain", when most captains say almost the exact opposite.

Additionally, Sakib's own game has floundered recently, most people acknowledge his poor training attitude and the fact he sets a less than professional example in this respect. Being captain isn't so much about what you say, but about what you actually DO.

BD fans tend to love Sakib because he is the 'hero' of the team. He carries the flag for BD when he plays overseas and when he is in the list of top ranked all rounders. From Sakib's viewpoint he loves the limelight and the money (and that's fine) and all he really cares about is how well he does personally. Even in some lost matches as captain he says in press conferences 'I bowled well".. or "I batted well".. yet you would never hear another country's captain say that.

All of this leaves a divide for fans who want to love the 'hero' yet see a person who perhaps isn't a very good leader of men. Some find it 'disloyal' to criticise the 'hero' but when his failings as captain are pointed out, they realise them. It means people sometimes struggle with all of that.

The problem for Sakib is he doesn't really seem to understand what a captain should do and how he should behave. He seems too close to certain members of the squad. Neither thing helps.

Posters here have some romantic kind of relationship with their 'Bollywood' style hero that is Sakib. To some he can do no wrong and will blame everyone and everything else for his failings. Sid Vision did the same.
  #16  
Old September 10, 2011, 12:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Night_wolf
we go by the flow of the moment..typical Bangali behavior
spot on!
  #17  
Old September 10, 2011, 01:15 AM
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i think it is hypocritical of those of us to expect that because he did well as a player, he would know very well what and exactly how to be a successful captain. thats just doesnt come quite easily. you need proper guidance.

so stop the shakib bashing, and join the bandwagon.
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It is good to let Shakib off captaincy, it will relieve some pressure. He will be offered captaincy again in a few years when he will be more than ready, Bangladesh will voyage into a new horizon then
  #18  
Old September 10, 2011, 10:49 AM
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Shakib had a disastrous tour in Zimbabwe. But let’s look at some facts, what he did as a player in a series where he performed below par—

ODI series
Shakib had the highest average at 54 and the second highest runs scored-- his 216 being only second to Sibanda’s 242
As bowler he took 6 wickets at an average of 29.

Test match
He was by far Bangladesh’s best bowler taking 4 wickets at an average of 30.
As batsman he scored the 2nd highest runs for his team at 37 average.

And all this with an injured index finger?

For a strong or even decent team, it’s not necessary that the captain be the best player in the playing eleven because you generally have balance throughout the line up. The team isn’t dependent on a handful of players to perform every day. Another reason we see captains who aren't one of the best players in the side is to provide youngsters veteran guidance.

Aside from the above cases, for the weaker teams in world cricket, it’s imperative that the captain be one of the best players and at the minimum of world class standard to be able to exert any influence at all. On a team that’s devoid of consistency and overseen by a board like BCB, leading by example (through ones own performance, just like we see at smaller companies/organizations as compared to larger ones) is the best way to lead. How can we expect players to listen to a captain who cannot even cement his own place in the team! (and this is Bangladesh we're talking about) In the context of Bangladesh there’s only two ways one can lead and expect any result — a) Leading by example b) Hiring a bunch of thugs and creating a state of anarchy.

The way BCB dealt with Shakib and Tamim, I’ll be very shocked if the new captain’s on field performance doesn’t get hampered by all the politics he’ll have to deal with, let alone him handling successfully the burden of captaincy. If we’re being nit picky about Shakib’s performance now, just wait till we find out how the next captain performs amidst all this chaos.

In time, if I’m proven wrong, I’ll be the first one to admit and I’ll be as happy as anyone to see our team on the right track, but the way things are going I feel we’ll be fondly reminiscing the memories of WI series win and NZ white wash as the two last significant accomplishments in our cricketing history for a long time to come.
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Old September 10, 2011, 03:06 PM
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Maddog.. I am not biased against Shakib. He is world class player and the best cricketer BD has ever produced. I simply feel he is not a good captain and leader of men that's all. Build a bridge and get over it.

I have seen many of your posts, accusing people as 'Shakib Haters' if they dare to question anything he does. if people don't agree with your views that Shakib can do no wrong, you are very aggressive.

I am not here to go back over the last 12 months and trawl all the reports about Shakib to justify my opinion by the way. Instead you can show me the newspaper reports where it says Shakib is a great captain as you seem to blindly believe. You are not Jamie Siddons in disguise are you????????

I repeat, Shakib for me every day of the week as a player. As a captain, sorry no. Poor leader, has favourites (and dislikes), cannot control himself with the media, will not accept responsibility, doesn't like to train - any one of these is unacceptable as a national captain.

Sorry buddy but Shakib as captain As a player 100%
  #20  
Old September 10, 2011, 03:14 PM
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Wait till Mushy drops few catches... gets out of some low score (both bound to happen).
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Old September 10, 2011, 03:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zman

The way BCB dealt with Shakib and Tamim, I’ll be very shocked if the new captain’s on field performance doesn’t get hampered by all the politics he’ll have to deal with, let alone him handling successfully the burden of captaincy. If we’re being nit picky about Shakib’s performance now, just wait till we find out how the next captain performs amidst all this chaos.
Zman... a captain shouldn't get involved with the politics. So I hope if it IS Mushy he will concentrate on leading the team, setting a tough example in training, being even handed, not doing or saying anything controversial off the field and just getting on with winning matches.

Whatever others do or say, it is the captain's job to run the team and a tight ship. He has to be humble and well as a leader. Working with the head coach is vital.

Let's stop using the BCB as an excuse for the on field failings. Let them do what they need to do off the field and let's have the players do what they need to do on the field.
  #22  
Old September 10, 2011, 03:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LBW103
...

I repeat, Shakib for me every day of the week as a player. As a captain, sorry no. Poor leader, has favourites (and dislikes), cannot control himself with the media, will not accept responsibility, doesn't like to train - any one of these if unacceptable as a national captain.
I had to butt in.

Poor leader? What more he needs to do than leading by example? Name one leader we have/had who is better? He may have deficiency in man-management but poor leader? 22-24 year old, your expectation is like Kapil/waugh/Imran at their prime. Were they better than Shakib at that age? A non-performing person can not be a leader, period. At least he performs and leads. All the captains previously got kicked out because they didn't deserve to be in the team in the first place. Performance first for this minnow team always. Finally LAW said enough about his leadership skills in the locker room. Media and fans like you don't see that.

Favorites (and dislikes): As human even you have that. As the team leader he has to put faith on those who he can trust in game situation. He does not believe in jodi laigga jai players, or eid players. He has brains. Twice or more than you when you were at his age.

Does not accept responsibility: Are you kidding me? In BD contest, tell me one person's name who took responsibility when the chips are down? Board, selectors, top order, coaches any one? At least he had the guts to say what needed to be said after the loss against Zim at home.

Media is wrong always. They still think Mash is going to tear apart opponent once he is fit, Ash is the Jesus 2nd coming. Smell the roses. Those are not happening.

Shakib is the only leader for this team to move forward. Without him we are at par with Afganistan.
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  #23  
Old September 10, 2011, 03:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tigers_eye
I had to butt in.

Poor leader? What more he needs to do than leading by example? Name one leader we have/had who is better? He may have deficiency in man-management but poor leader? 22-24 year old, your expectation is like Kapil/waugh/Imran at their prime. Were they better than Shakib at that age? A non-performing person can not be a leader, period. At least he performs and leads. All the captains previously got kicked out because they didn't deserve to be in the team in the first place. Performance first for this minnow team always. Finally LAW said enough about his leadership skills in the locker room. Media and fans like you don't see that.

Favorites (and dislikes): As human even you have that. As the team leader he has to put faith on those who he can trust in game situation. He does not believe in jodi laigga jai players, or eid players. He has brains. Twice or more than you when you were at his age.

Does not accept responsibility: Are you kidding me? In BD contest, tell me one person's name who took responsibility when the chips are down? Board, selectors, top order, coaches any one? At least he had the guts to say what needed to be said after the loss against Zim at home.

Media is wrong always. They still think Mash is going to tear apart opponent once he is fit, Ash is the Jesus 2nd coming. Smell the roses. Those are not happening.

Shakib is the only leader for this team to move forward. Without him we are at par with Afganistan.
Being a great player isn't the prerequisite for a good captain. Being a great man manager is. You are confusing playing well with being a leader.

Just because Shakib is no worse than anyone else BD has had is hardly an endorsement of his leadership skills.

You admit he doesn't taken responsibility, you admit he is deficient on man-management. Those are THE TWO MOST IMPORTANT traits for any captain. This is what made Ponting, Waugh, Strauss, and others such GREAT captains.

Leading from the front (as he should if he is ranked number one in the world) doesn't make him a good captain, just a great player. I am agreeing with all the things Shakib does as a player, but he lacks the international skill qualities to be a good captain, as I mentioned in my posting.

Mushy will be a very fine captain as he comes across as having better captaincy qualities. Time will tell if it is him and whether he can stablise the team, because someone needs to.
  #24  
Old September 10, 2011, 03:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LBW103
Zman... a captain shouldn't get involved with the politics. So I hope if it IS Mushy he will concentrate on leading the team, setting a tough example in training, being even handed, not doing or saying anything controversial off the field and just getting on with winning matches.

Whatever others do or say, it is the captain's job to run the team and a tight ship. He has to be humble and well as a leader. Working with the head coach is vital.

Let's stop using the BCB as an excuse for the on field failings. Let them do what they need to do off the field and let's have the players do what they need to do on the field.
Only if it were that simple! it may be an option elsewhere but in our country it's simply not possible. If it weren't the case Mushi wouldn't have been sacked from Vice Captaincy once already for the very same reason as Shakib/Tamim--Attitude Problem, and still be considered the only viable option for Captaincy. In other words, why is Mushi being considered for Captaincy when he's clearly demonstrated in the past that he suffers from the same disease! The only other way to keep these BCB cronies happy is by losing one's manhood and becoming the quintessential "Yes Man" as someone has already articulated in one of the recent articles.
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  #25  
Old September 10, 2011, 04:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tiger_2007
I was always for Shakib and will be until his performance on the field goes down the hill. I prefer to have a captain having attitude to fight till the end of the game irrespective of the opponents and be courageous enough to speak of his mind. That's why Saurav Ganguly, Steve Waugh and Imran Khan were successful during their time.

The CEOs of all big companies (e.g., Steve Jobs from Apple, Bill Gates from Microsoft or Larry Ellison from Oracle) are/were always arrogant but are/were focused on their plan. Sometimes they are/were ruthless but investors are happy to have them lead their respective company.

Shakib had a vision for our cricket and that's why he demanded for a long time commitment from the board. He had issues and attitudes which might NOT be liked. But, who cares? You are NOT planning to have him your relatives, right? As long as he performs well and lead the team from the front, eager to minimize his own personal issues, I don't have any problem. Well, some of those idiots in BCB are pure morons, expect more from him, I guess. Also, he might have upset some of those directors who are linked to Abahoni, consequently, he is forced to let go. The same is true for Tamim Iqbal as he irked so many Abahoni officials in the recent past.



I am happy to see responses from both Shakib and Tamim as they seem to understand the internal politics within BCB which they can’t control. I hope that they play positive and prove to the world that they are jewels to our team. If they do so, they will remain captain and vice-captain in the heart of millions of BD fans across the globe.

Excellent point! they do appear a bit arrogant and ruthless at times--it's something that accompanies the insatiable hunger for success and the high standards they set for themselves and their companies. They all share strong personalities and don't hesitate to challenge those around them. They frequently get into screaming contests and fights with their employees and the ones who don't shy away from the challenge, are willing to put everything on the line, stand their ground and scream back, are the ones that get handpicked for future leadership roles. They do not look to surround themselves with Yes Men who'll try to appease them frequently by putting lipstick on a pig.
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