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  #1  
Old March 23, 2011, 12:26 PM
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Default Independence Day & our Pak-love

I was born post ’71 independence but the way I was brought up thanks to my parents, my education, my country such that every time 71 is mentioned to me, I feel like I was there in the middle of 9 months long war as a soldier, as a victim, someone who went through multiple rapes by Pak military men and then got dump into a gutter, someone who was unclothed to show my circumcision or faced the bullet.

I now live in a country where multi-culturism is encouraged as a result I get to mingle with a lot of Pakistanis. The horror stories of 1971 made me…erm .... not sure what the politically correct term is .. but ‘racist’? I do not hate the Pakistani people but my country’s dark history written by the Pak rulers, refrain me from buying Pakistani made products, food, cloths, even music.

I missed the match today; I was just following it online. After reading some of the posts in the match thread, I feel like I am glad that I didn’t. The people of the same nation who now fights for the war criminals execution celebrate Pakistani match victory in a style that I had to feel ashamed for. .. waving Pak flags, wearing Pak tops, face painting in Pak flag colours – really? Has our generation become so oblivious towards our independence, towards our language day? 100s of 1000s of Bangladeshis had to give their lives during 1952, 1971 so that our people and the generations to come can speak the mother tongue and not someone else's tongue and can live in an independent country not governed by people living in 1400 miles away. Is this how we show respect to them?

I’ve heard Pak cricketers didn’t even thank us for showing such Pak-love, probably because its also beyond them to understand the reason for it. Some Pakistanis still call up “East Pakistanis” – check out youtube video of Bangladesh v England match, uploaded by the Pakistanis.

Some people are arguing about the fact that cricket has nothing to do with politics. It sure doesn’t but it doesn’t also mean that we will throw away our self respect and insult our Independence month – it is because of which we own our sovereignty and we speak our own language - Bangla and not urdu. To me, it should be respected everywhere, not just in a cricket event…

Sorry I was going to post it in the match thread but it really isn’t a post for the match thread!

Yet another poor performance by the Bangladeshis but congrats to Pakistan for winning the match today.

Finally – Happy Independence day, although I am 3 days early.
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  #2  
Old March 23, 2011, 12:54 PM
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I understand where you coming from and I respect you views. But to me it's as twisted as saying one should not support South Africa because of their apartheid past. Having stayed there for 3 years and being on the receiving end of some blithely racist comments, it also saddens me to see how some members go gaga over their players. If one knew how a white person would tie a black man to the tractor's wheel and drive it, then I am sure he or she would think twice before supporting them. But I stay firm to my convicting that sports in no ways should be intertwined with religion, politics or history and enjoyed for it's own merit.

If we were to go by your own logic, one cannot support ANY country. Indians killed Felani in the border, Pakistani had 71 atrocity, South Africa has racist past, Australia has their share of One World theory, Sri Lanka has their LTTE problem....and so on.

If one were to go fishing for this type of discrepancy, it can be found. I am a proud Bangladeshi-American, and all of a sudden I am not going to turn my back because of the slavery issues.

Please let us move on and enjoy sports for sports sake.
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  #3  
Old March 23, 2011, 01:18 PM
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we all have our biases. its impossible to get rid of. furthermore, some biases can be ground in actual "facts on the ground", for example all of my biases have some logical reasoning :p

whether politics can be mixed or not is a question with a paradoxical answer. on the one hand you have most muslim countries which boycott Israel - which is why Israel is considered a "european" country in terms of sports - and i'm no longer going to say that that is wrong. on the other hand, the opportunity to embarass your opponent on a sporting stage could also be considered "positive".

so there are no clear and easy answers.

personally, i have no tolerance for arrogant pakistanis (or arrogant people of any ilk really) who have a condescending view of others be they bengali, baluchi, pashtun, or otherwise.
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Old March 23, 2011, 01:40 PM
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It will take a few generations to get over this; more so in a nation where people are intolerant of even the smallest things, which '71 by all means isn't. I too have my biases and can't get myself to support Pakistan in any sport, and '71 does have a huge significance for me (as it should). But that doesn't mean I hate everything Pakistani or that I don't have any Pakistani friends or that I discriminate against them in any way. I still love their achar and their women. Ok, maybe not the women - Eastern European and East Asian chicas FTW!

But it will take a few generations (after people like me) to be able to forgive. Heck my kids might be mixed race for all I know (no, not half Pakistani - Eastern European and East Asian chicas FTW!). Then again, one might argue that you have to ask to be forgiven, which Pakistan hasn't.
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Old March 23, 2011, 02:02 PM
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Another point I'd like to mention is one should not be forced to go back to his or her roots and consume large dosage of books or research materials on Independence diet. Because from my own experience and having talked to many classmates I have noticed that some EXCELLENT materials in classics were overlooked because they were FORCED to read it in school.

Amy Tan what-cha-ma-call-it book? HATED it
George Orwell's Animal Farm? HATED it
All Quiet on Western Frontier? HATED it
And so on..

Point being when one is forced to read books on class assignments with limited time frame and based on piece-meal chapter by chapter section, one gets so bored, tired and frustrated and easily loses the plot- so to speak.

I've been handed down English book on my country's history and guess what? I haven't even touched it.

Rather out of own volition, if a person becomes compelled to find his source, root and history to see where she comes from and then go and discover for herself the atrocities then it will have HUGE positive impacts. Then she will on her own volition will realize the importance of past history.

But such is our Bangladeshi culture everything from religion, choice of major, marriage....everything is force fed which results in hite biporit attitude. Once I read in a Humayun Ahmed's fiction how a Pakistani would drive hammer into victim's hand which had huge impression on me. The image connotes a lot of meaning. But if you point a gun to your fellow compatriot and look down upon him for not knowing the history or worst SHOULD BE ashamed of it, then it will have zero impact.

Past cannot be changed but can serve as many important lessons...but only if he or she makes a conscious effort to learn from it instead of a regimental and authoritative papal decree.
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  #6  
Old March 23, 2011, 02:34 PM
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By the I also don't see why fans go on waving Pakistani or Indian flags. Hell would freeze over before those two teams support us, yet...

So in my book, that is the reason why I think is "wrong".
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  #7  
Old March 23, 2011, 06:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roni_uk
I was born post ’71 independence but the way I was brought up thanks to my parents, my education, my country such that every time 71 is mentioned to me, I feel like I was there in the middle of 9 months long war as a soldier, as a victim, someone who went through multiple rapes by Pak military men and then got dump into a gutter, someone who was unclothed to show my circumcision or faced the bullet.

I now live in a country where multi-culturism is encouraged as a result I get to mingle with a lot of Pakistanis. The horror stories of 1971 made me…erm .... not sure what the politically correct term is .. but ‘racist’? I do not hate the Pakistani people but my country’s dark history written by the Pak rulers, refrain me from buying Pakistani made products, food, cloths, even music.

I missed the match today; I was just following it online. After reading some of the posts in the match thread, I feel like I am glad that I didn’t. The people of the same nation who now fights for the war criminals execution celebrate Pakistani match victory in a style that I had to feel ashamed for. .. waving Pak flags, wearing Pak tops, face painting in Pak flag colours – really? Has our generation become so oblivious towards our independence, towards our language day? 100s of 1000s of Bangladeshis had to give their lives during 1952, 1971 so that our people and the generations to come can speak the mother tongue and not someone else's tongue and can live in an independent country not governed by people living in 1400 miles away. Is this how we show respect to them?

I’ve heard Pak cricketers didn’t even thank us for showing such Pak-love, probably because its also beyond them to understand the reason for it. Some Pakistanis still call up “East Pakistanis” – check out youtube video of Bangladesh v England match, uploaded by the Pakistanis.
Your experience is similar to mine except that I was born in Dhaka. I was born a good four years after independence and spend the next 12 and half years of my life being reminded of Bengali nationalism through each Independence day, Bijoy Dibosh and Ekushe February. I accepted the facts for what they were and was proud to be associated with the celebrations. My parents were actively involved in helping the Muktibahini through secret fund raising, transmission of information and taking a few injured parties to doctors in my father old Volkwagon Beetle. My maternal uncle had been involved in the fighting, caught and tortured by the Pakistani army. He was nearly left for dead by the torturers.

There is another side to humanity that I like to mention in the same vein when talking about my families activities during 1971. A very close friend of my paternal uncle was a Captain in the Pakistani army and worked part of the intelligence department. He had been a masters student of Geography at Jahangirnagar university prior to joining the army. Throughout the war he kept close contact with my family and warned my grandparents twice when raids were about to take place at their Mohammadpur residence. It was through his help that my maternal uncle was found and resuscitated. At the end of war he was fleeing from Muktibahini. My family offered him shelter. My father and his cousins drove him to India at great risk to their own lives. From what I have heard, this fair Pathan had been dressed up as a Hindu Brahmin from Kashmir.

I have spent the last 23 years of my life in the same country as you. From secondary school onwards I was educated in Britain. Due to family and personal circumstances I had the fortune or one might call misfortune to attend local comprehensive schools, one of the best grammar schools in the country and then an assisted student at top public school. These were before university days. The working class Pakistani kids who went to the comprehensive school with me were ardently racist. 'Bengali' referred to a lower class of being to them. I was close friends with a British-Pakistani but we were friends through our common interest in cricket rather than considering each other as members of any specific ethnic minority. Middle class Pakistani friends I had later during my school years knew very little about the politics of 1971. They were living through their Buddha of Suburbia (Hanif Kureshi) days. At university I didn't mingle with any non-white students. This was simply because the ones who were there were studying law, pharmacology or medicine and had little interest in any of the social activities that I surrounded myself with. What is of interest is that the 'Muslim' women at university in those days were all middle class and none would ever be seen with headscarves. The Malaysian and Indonesian female foreign students always covered their head. One could say that Islam had not permeated visually through the veneer of a suburban old university that was largely populated by Oxbridge rejects.

Through one of my part time work I had made good friends with a British-Syleti. His father owned restaurants. He seemed to breed detestation of all things Pakistani nice boy that he was. He was full of jokes and one must admit that a few of these were extremely funny. Recently, I had a flatmate whose parents came from Bangladesh in sometime in the 1970s. His father was a taxi driver. He had the misfortune of being one of the very few 'coloured' kids in Devon and was severely abused by white kids and British-Pakistani kids. He is a very proud Muslim and Bangladehi despite having a white Irish girlfriend and a penchant for Stella Artois lager. Sadly, he could not hold his alcohol down. We shared the same flat for just over a month but he never realised that I was born in the same country as his parents! He still rings me every time he is in trouble. I won't bore you with the details of these troubles but most involve women and sexual issues.

I abhor jingoism. I have not waived any flags since the age of 12 and don't see myself doing so in the future. The appreciation for culture does not transcend into brute patriotism in me. I do see political boundaries that separate the states and cultures as just that, a tool of the politician. My mother's family are direct descendent of the legendary Tipu Sultan of Mysore. One part of my paternal family came to India in the 16th century as Sufi saints and later settled in Faridpur. This branch was instrumental in the early 19th century Faraizi movement. As far as I am aware part of my family fought the Maratha as part of a declining Mughal army, my father's great great grand father the the East India company's protocol officer in 1857 when Bahadur Shah Zafar was being escorted to Rangoon. He had been chosen for his dexterity in Persian and English and was given a gold coin by the last emperor, and also made Khan Bahadur by the British. But these are events in history. For all intent and purposes it would appear that my father's great great grandfather was a traitor in taking employment with the East India company? Perhaps this complex family tree makes me look at recent history with a slight detachment. At the expense of angering many here, I think we spend a little too much time in our consciousness thinking about the past. Atrocities are part of war. In war there are no winners. I am sure than my tortured Boromama could never be as philosophical as I. I dare say that I would be any different had I been him.

Lastly, if someone decided to wear a jersey of the team they support, why can't be accept them for who they are, a supporter of that team? Rajakar they might be, however, who are we to judge? Is Bangladesh going to be reunited with Pakistan any time soon? I love test cricket. I fell in love with cricket having watched a video of David Gower scoring a double century. I had passionately supported England since early 1988. I have little interest in limited overs cricket and when England plays Bangladesh I feel my loyalties to be tested. I would not rejoice whichever side won. however, in test matches, I don't like to see Bangladesh humiliated either.

Roni, you have as much right to support who you please. However, others, even those Bangladeshis who might choose to support Pakistan or India have exactly the same right. Our history is very complicated. Our politics is complex. Why bring it into a cricket ground? We are only stooping to the level of those sick working class Paki kids who abused you at school?
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  #8  
Old March 24, 2011, 01:25 AM
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I just hope I don't have to see such threads here anymore, come on mates, 1 world , 1 love

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  #9  
Old March 24, 2011, 03:24 AM
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We will see more and more such threads until the past has been put to pasture. The wounds are too raw.

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Old March 24, 2011, 05:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roni_uk
I missed the match today; I was just following it online. After reading some of the posts in the match thread, I feel like I am glad that I didn’t. The people of the same nation who now fights for the war criminals execution celebrate Pakistani match victory in a style that I had to feel ashamed for. .. waving Pak flags, wearing Pak tops, face painting in Pak flag colours – really? Has our generation become so oblivious towards our independence, towards our language day? 100s of 1000s of Bangladeshis had to give their lives during 1952, 1971 so that our people and the generations to come can speak the mother tongue and not someone else's tongue and can live in an independent country not governed by people living in 1400 miles away. Is this how we show respect to them?
Support pakistan cricket team and waving pakistani flag is totally different thing. For get our own flag we fought long and more than 3M people hav given their life. They didnt sacrificed their life to see waving pakistani flag in our motherland. Shame on us
The people who are comparing Felani incident with 71 make no sense to me. Felani didnt give her life for our independence. And personally I dont even support waving indian flag too. Waving neighbor country's feel me unsafe.
Brazi-Argentina flag is different issue. They hav no political connection with us. Thats pure sports. When there are lot of political issues between countries, their sports are not only sports.
BTW at the 71 there are lot of cowards(young people) without any proper family or personal issues went to india as refugees. Either they scared to fight or many of them has pak in their heart. So their kids who are now grew up dont know how to respect our independence might be a case about our PAK flag issue.

Last edited by parvez; March 24, 2011 at 05:12 AM..
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  #11  
Old March 24, 2011, 01:36 PM
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Bangladeshi der bijoy ekhono ashe nai bhai...juddho aro baki ase...tai to kothae ase, Shadhinota pawar cheye ta rokkha kora onek kothin !! khub beshi din ar baki nai jei din amader manush ra nijeder ke "East Pakistani" hishabe porichoy dite proud feel korbe ! Deshe aishe bhaloi alamot dekhtechi !
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Old March 24, 2011, 02:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Naimul_Hd
Bangladeshi der bijoy ekhono ashe nai bhai...juddho aro baki ase...tai to kothae ase, Shadhinota pawar cheye ta rokkha kora onek kothin !! khub beshi din ar baki nai jei din amader manush ra nijeder ke "East Pakistani" hishabe porichoy dite proud feel korbe ! Deshe aishe bhaloi alamot dekhtechi !
Ki alamot dekhlen vai? ektu share koren amader shathe please...
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Old March 24, 2011, 02:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Naimul_Hd
Bangladeshi der bijoy ekhono ashe nai bhai...juddho aro baki ase...tai to kothae ase, Shadhinota pawar cheye ta rokkha kora onek kothin !! khub beshi din ar baki nai jei din amader manush ra nijeder ke "East Pakistani" hishabe porichoy dite proud feel korbe ! Deshe aishe bhaloi alamot dekhtechi !
buira der moto bollen. Somaje slightest osongoti hole Keyamot er alamot dekha suru koren unara.
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Old March 24, 2011, 02:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roman
Ki alamot dekhlen vai? ektu share koren amader shathe please...
I would like to know too. I haven't been to BD in almost 10 years, but I try my best to stay in touch with most of my friends and family back home. The impression I get from my friends and family it's completely opposite from Naimul bhai's. So I would like to know about his experience.
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Old March 24, 2011, 03:32 PM
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Pakistan should apologise to Bangladesh for atrocities: Imran Khan

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Cricketer-turned-politician Imran Khan said the Pakistan government should officially apologise to the people of Bangladesh for atrocities allegedly committed by the Pakistan Army in the 1971 war.

Khan said this during a television show on Geo News and Geo Super TV channels yesterday while analysing the cricket match between Pakistan and West Indies played at Mirpur in Bangladesh.

The host of the show asked Khan about the expected behaviour of the Bangladeshi crowd in Mirpur and he said the Bangladeshis would support the Pakistani cricket team.

The host then asked Khan whether the time had come for the Pakistan government to apologise to the people of Bangladesh for the army operation of 1971.

Khan said he was previously of the opinion that the army operation was ‘a good thing’ because there was no independent media in Pakistan in 1971.

Khan said when he went to Britain in 1971, his Bengali friends told him about the ‘reality’ of the Pakistan Army operation in erstwhile East Pakistan.

He said army operations always created hatred and ‘we must apologise to the Bangladeshis’.He added: ‘We must learn lessons from our past mistakes

and we should not repeat these mistakes in Balochistan and the tribal areas where we have started army operations on US pressure.’

Khan said he had experienced the love and affection of Bangladeshis during an exhibition match in Mirpur in 1989.

Source: http://newagebd.com/newspaper1/frontpage/12888.html
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Old March 24, 2011, 10:15 PM
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Bangladesh Genocide Video Archive:

http://www.genocidebangladesh.org/?page_id=2
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  #17  
Old March 24, 2011, 11:05 PM
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Most of the flag waving and chanting in Urdu fans in the stadium were not bangladeshis. I see lot of people without watching the game is jumping the gun. Most people came from Pakistan or Dubai or living in bd. If u see the video u can easily identify most of them. .

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  #18  
Old March 25, 2011, 02:01 AM
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look in the net about the night of 25th march in 1971

all hell with all the logics and reasons..i'll never ever support Pakistan

be a sport a team or anything
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Old March 25, 2011, 06:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Puck
Your experience is similar to mine except that I was born in Dhaka. I was born a good four years after independence and spend the next 12 and half years of my life being reminded of Bengali nationalism through each Independence day, Bijoy Dibosh and Ekushe February. ........
nice read Puck bro.. thanks for sharing.

I stand by my view point re: respecting our independence.
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Old March 25, 2011, 11:55 PM
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While hatred is not warranted, unconditional love is also very disrespectful to the martyrs, atleast till Pakistan offers apology. Just my 2 cents...
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Old March 26, 2011, 04:15 PM
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I see almost everyone agrees that supporting Pakistan in a cricket match is NOT an issue, the issue is to what level a Bangladeshi should go in their support.
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Old March 26, 2011, 08:26 PM
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There is no way to get over it until formal acknowledgement and apology
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Old March 27, 2011, 12:28 AM
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It is something that confuses me as well. It is recorded as 4 th largest genocide ever in human history. And yet I see this support for Pakistan and not just in cricket may I add.
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  #24  
Old March 27, 2011, 11:38 AM
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So, do you guys think that Indians should have intervened in this matter. Indians believe that they prevented a larger genocide while Pakistanis believe we broke their country while Bangladeshis are not very affable towards India for some reason. Seems like a lose lose for India.
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Old March 28, 2011, 12:16 AM
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Dhaka bids farewell to the World Cup (Rajakar alert):
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