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  #1  
Old January 11, 2012, 08:57 AM
firstlane firstlane is offline
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Default Playing against associates

I am not opening this thread just because England toiled to win against the ICC Combined XI made up by cricketers from ICC associate nations, in fact I have decided to open this thread just when England decided to play against them. The fact that the combined XI gave England a good run for their money is the icing on the cake.

England Secure Unconvincing Win
http://www.espncricinfo.com/pakistan...ry/548696.html

The reason I am bringing up this discussion is because recently some of us (or very few of us) strongly opposed Law's idea of BD playing longer version games against associates. I have to mention our beloved member LBW103 here. He called that thought a 'blunder'. And if my memory is serving me right an expert like Ian Pont also opposed the idea of playing against associates before world cup. The notion was that we wouldn't gain anything by playing against associates, instead it might backfire by giving our cricketers otherwise inflated averages which would be misrepresentation of our real strength. But I personally believe the decision of not playing adequate practice matches before such a big tournament just because big teams were not available was not a good one.

Another argument I have come across in the forum is that our cricketers need more intensive skills training than practice matches. I am not an expert but from common sense I understand that just skills training sessions can't give a cricketer the real taste of playing a match over 4/5 days period. Practice sessions can't be a true alternative of going through all the up and downs of a real match, for instance, the tension of batting or bowling on a 4th/5th day pitch with a target to achieve. There is no doubt that intensive skill trainings are necessary for the development of players. But being one of the lowest ranked test team we only get to play 5-8 test matches a year and minimal number of ODIs. We have plenty of time for intensive training sessions over the year even if we decide to play some games against associates.

Although we like to think we are way ahead of the associates with larger players' pool, handful of domestic competitions and massive fan following, our performance against top ranked associates hasn't been as clinical as our closest ranked test teams performed against us. In fact we have been brought down by the top associates on few occasions in not so favorable conditions.

Also I find it hypocritical when we refuse to play against associates saying it would not help us improving our skills much while we have been complaining that the top test teams are not giving us enough opportunity to play against them.

If we can arrange more matches against test teams and their A teams thats well and good. But since we have failed to do that I see no harm playing against top associates. The match between England and ICC Combined XI has given us the opportunity to think hard about this. If England being the no.1 test team in the world consider the associates worthy enough opposition for preparation of a test series why cann't we? And looking at the scorecard of that match makes me think it might be well worth it.

ICC Combined Associate and Affiliate XI 1st innings- 281
England XI 1st innings- 185
ICC Combined Associate and Affiliate XI 2nd innings- 164
England XI 2nd innings- 261
Result: England XI won by 3 wickets

http://www.espncricinfo.com/pakistan...ch/531625.html

I would like to know your thoughts on this.
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  #2  
Old January 11, 2012, 09:36 AM
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BANFAN BANFAN is offline
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Can we get a combined 11 too?? That would be ok.
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  #3  
Old January 11, 2012, 05:54 PM
betaar betaar is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BANFAN
Can we get a combined 11 too?? That would be ok.
We would lose pretty much 6 out of 10 times but that would still be better than not playing any cricket.

But going back to op’s points, I think time spent in the middle has no alternative where as the opposite is also true, you cannot just keep playing actual matches without spending the time in the nets to correct your errors. Both are equally important and a balance is a must.
For a country like Bangladesh, we don’t have the luxury to do one or the other. The bottom line is, the team needs to work hard; play a lot more matches even against the associates but practice even harder. Nothing can substitute hard work.

And I must say it was naïve of you to think we, Bangladeshis, are not hypocritical……just look at our leaders.

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  #4  
Old January 11, 2012, 09:15 PM
firstlane firstlane is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by betaar
We would lose pretty much 6 out of 10 times but that would still be better than not playing any cricket.

But going back to op’s points, I think time spent in the middle has no alternative where as the opposite is also true, you cannot just keep playing actual matches without spending the time in the nets to correct your errors. Both are equally important and a balance is a must.
For a country like Bangladesh, we don’t have the luxury to do one or the other. The bottom line is, the team needs to work hard; play a lot more matches even against the associates but practice even harder. Nothing can substitute hard work.

And I must say it was naïve of you to think we, Bangladeshis, are not hypocritical……just look at our leaders.

nice, jalamoyee post but nowhere in my post I suggested that Bangladeshis are hypocritical or the opposite. rather I said that thought of refusing to play against associates was hypocritical.

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  #5  
Old January 12, 2012, 01:10 AM
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Night_wolf Night_wolf is offline
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its an absolute necessary since after 2012 our cricketing calendar will take a snooze
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  #6  
Old January 12, 2012, 05:35 AM
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Naimul_Hd Naimul_Hd is offline
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I do feel that its time to play regular matches with Associates. If not the national team, at least 'A' or 'Academy team' can play with them. If we can manage to beat them handsomely then critics also know that we are far better team than them. Its total atrocity of BCB not arranging any matches with them at any level.
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  #7  
Old January 12, 2012, 09:42 AM
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lamisa lamisa is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Naimul_Hd
I do feel that its time to play regular matches with Associates. If not the national team, at least 'A' or 'Academy team' can play with them. If we can manage to beat them handsomely then critics also know that we are far better team than them. Its total atrocity of BCB not arranging any matches with them at any level.
yea, specially to play first class cricket. we should send our academy team to play associates like scotland and netherlands
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  #8  
Old January 12, 2012, 10:00 AM
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mufi_02 mufi_02 is offline
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We might not have enough leverage in ICC to get a combined XI. But we can get individual teams easily. I think teams like Ireland, Scotland, Netherland will be more than happy to play us. It will be valuable to them as well.
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  #9  
Old January 12, 2012, 11:12 AM
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shuziburo shuziburo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BANFAN
Can we get a combined 11 too?? That would be ok.
Actually, that would be a very good idea. Although we would lose many matches, this will give us some real-world experience. We would learn much less by thrashing individual associates...
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  #10  
Old January 12, 2012, 01:25 PM
jashan83 jashan83 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shuziburo
Actually, that would be a very good idea. Although we would lose many matches, this will give us some real-world experience. We would learn much less by thrashing individual associates...
Well to shut the critics we need to play more associates. But personally I feel we will keep losing to many associates and then our test status will be questioned
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  #11  
Old January 12, 2012, 02:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jashan83
Well to shut the critics we need to play more associates. But personally I feel we will keep losing to many associates and then our test status will be questioned
IF we do keep losing to associates then we do not deserve Test status
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  #12  
Old January 12, 2012, 02:46 PM
betaar betaar is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by firstlane
nice, jalamoyee post but nowhere in my post I suggested that Bangladeshis are hypocritical or the opposite. rather I said that thought of refusing to play against associates was hypocritical.

Posted via BC Mobile Edition
I know you didn't but I must have made a general assumption that hypocritical thoughts come from hypocritial minds....thus hypocritical people and in this case we happened to be talking about Bangladeshis.
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  #13  
Old January 12, 2012, 10:50 PM
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al Furqaan al Furqaan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jashan83
Well to shut the critics we need to play more associates. But personally I feel we will keep losing to many associates and then our test status will be questioned
ridiculous post. if you really believe we're so weak as to "keep losing" to most associates, then why would we warrant test status to begin with?

i also think we should play associates with our A team and perhaps Academy or U19ers. But to suggest that the likes of Ireland, Afghanistan would pose a threat in the longer version is quite farfetched. We might lose a 4-dayer every 10th time, but even if we didnt have the firepower to bowl someone twice in 4 days, we'd secure draws with relative ease.

Its one thing to be deluded into believing we're a top tier team, quite another to have zero self belief.
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  #14  
Old January 12, 2012, 11:55 PM
fuadomar fuadomar is offline
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Look at the score between England Lions (or A to be precise) vs. Bangladesh A. We are very much competitive and winning. Can you differ between those two teams? When people says that BD national team should play against A teams of test playing nations, I even do not support that let alone associate countries. There is no reason to play associates now. We need to uplift our skill a bit and we will be there to compete in each match.
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  #15  
Old January 12, 2012, 11:59 PM
ausbangfan ausbangfan is offline
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might be a good idea to get a Bangladesh A team, as well as a Zimbabwe A team to play in the Intercontinental Cup. This gives the associates more experience, as well as testing the depth of Bangladesh and Zimbabwe. Also when say Ireland tour Bangladesh, to play the A side, they could also play a few ODI's against the full side. win win I think.
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  #16  
Old January 13, 2012, 12:04 AM
fuadomar fuadomar is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fuadomar
Look at the score between England Lions (or A to be precise) vs. Bangladesh A. We are very much competitive and winning. Can you differ between those two teams? When people says that BD national team should play against A teams of test playing nations, I even do not support that let alone associate countries. There is no reason to play associates now. We need to uplift our skill a bit and we will be there to compete in each match.
sorry, one thing i missed is the scorecard of the match. The England XI is basically the England national team, it was very strong.
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