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  #26  
Old March 31, 2012, 08:58 PM
zsayeed zsayeed is offline
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Its a long winded story/experience.

Sit quietly in a room. Alone. Focus on the heart and read one verse.
Focus on feeling in the heart. There is a part of the heart called the sino atrium node where the first spark of life takes place - that is the seat of life. You can feel it. Before any stirrings of life begins - that place stirs.

You will feel this feeling where all senses are alive, but it feels like you exist everywhere. I am not telling something that I read. At that time you become one with Reality. Words become meaningless - you are the alphabet. It is so hard to explain.

Rumi said it best - The Quran is like a beautiful lady, woo her, seduce her - then she will reveal herself to you; pull at her clothes with force - and she will rear her ugly head.

It is delicacy that is important. The heart is the conduit to the truth. The heart still beats autonomously when left in a dish of blood.

I don't have the words. There is a way to feel it. There was a book written by Enamul Huque from before the partition, Asiatic Society has it. UPENN Library had a copy, but the book is not published any more. Asiatic society would not let me access it either. It was called "A History of Sufism in Bengal." It was written before the partition - 1929 perhaps. In there there was a poem - in it is said what I am trying to fumble around with-
That in that heart of hearts is the Nur-E-Muhammadi - The Light of the prophet that illuminates all.
It is that illumination that we seek - the light as in the moon's light - borrowed.

The Quran, to me is pure beauty. But once it is pulled apart - it leads to ugliness. And that is a tragedy.

The light is real - it is not a story. And I love the fusion that has taken place in Bengal.
The heart is a powerful organ. It is the first seat of the spark of life - an actual electrical spark. Our purpose in life is to cognize. Follow the path back. That node, is alluded to in the Quran and the Bible - it is the eye of the needle through which a camel can pass through.

I probably am not talking clearly. I am sorry.
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  #27  
Old March 31, 2012, 09:01 PM
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Okay zedsayeed bhai, that sounded more like being Muslim who is high.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zsayeed
.....
I probably am not talking clearly. I am sorry.

Last edited by Zeeshan; March 31, 2012 at 09:49 PM..
  #28  
Old March 31, 2012, 09:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BengaliPagol
Somewhere in the Quran it states that if women start to lead prayers then judgement day is near. So if its gonna happen then its gonna happen.
Astaghfirullah. what you have written Is shirk and bida of the highest order. do not spread lies and falsehood about Allah and His word.
  #29  
Old March 31, 2012, 09:37 PM
iDumb iDumb is offline
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I have no problem with
1. Women are leading congregations in prayer,
2. gay imams

But I do have problem with
3. men and women are praying side by side.

Muslim group prayers are all about body touches, no gaps in between creating a unity - a brotherhoodness, while being absolutely pure of any negative thougths. I don't see that happening with a women next to me.

1. I have no problem a woman lead prayer if she is well versed and qualified. I dont think it's un islamic

2. Imam can be gay, a smoker or an alcoholic- it doesn't matter. An Imam does not have to be pure of all sins for me to pray while he leads. I have prayed under Imams that I have cought later smoking... It doesn't matter.. I do my part - he does his part... and Allah accepts all our prayers and forgive our shortcomings.

but number 3 I can not justify, it's a little too much even for my liberal mind.
  #30  
Old March 31, 2012, 09:51 PM
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Electrequiem Electrequiem is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iDumb
I have no problem with
1. Women are leading congregations in prayer,
2. gay imams

But I do have problem with
3. men and women are praying side by side.

Muslim group prayers are all about body touches, no gaps in between creating a unity - a brotherhoodness, while being absolutely pure of any negative thougths. I don't see that happening with a women next to me.

1. I have no problem a woman lead prayer if she is well versed and qualified. I dont think it's un islamic

2. Imam can be gay, a smoker or an alcoholic- it doesn't matter. An Imam does not have to be pure of all sins for me to pray while he leads. I have prayed under Imams that I have cought later smoking... It doesn't matter.. I do my part - he does his part... and Allah accepts all our prayers and forgive our shortcomings.

but number 3 I can not justify, it's a little too much even for my liberal mind.
What about a gay Muslim standing next to another man in prayer? What if he is lead to "negative thoughts"?

As a straight man, if I had to pray next to a woman - if I'm in the state of prayer already - I think I have enough self control to not get a boner if our feet touch. The struggle to not get sprung, actually, is commendable I'd say, since it will be a testament to one's devotion to prayer.

Besides, I don't think they are saying you MUST pray co-ed. I think its more about choice. It's giving women the right to pray wherever they want as opposed to being confined in a space that's usually substandard.
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  #31  
Old March 31, 2012, 10:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boomerang
I am totally against it. i think we should least bother at this. they are no muslims in any way. they are mentally sick. frustrated and losers
Oh really now? Its more like "they're different from me so yada yada yada"
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  #32  
Old March 31, 2012, 10:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Electrequiem

Besides, I don't think they are saying you MUST pray co-ed. I think its more about choice. It's giving women the right to pray wherever they want as opposed to being confined in a space that's usually substandard.
how many times have you prayed brother? I have attended prayers multiple times where women and men prayed under one Imam. Women's space is not substandard. In one of the prayer, it was so crowded, we prayed in rain, on street while the sisters prayed inside on carpet. Don't just say things for the sake of it... Usually places where women are given the honor of attending prayers are taken care of better than men. We always went by women and children first principal.

Quote:
The struggle to not get sprung, actually, is commendable I'd say, since it will be a testament to one's devotion to prayer.
your argumentabout controlling boner and blah blah makes no sense. Why not, like Murad said, have people pray nude nexxt to each other - controlling your boner at that time becomes even more challenging - that's a better testament to the devotion to a prayer??

Get your basics right first before progressing.
  #33  
Old March 31, 2012, 10:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iDumb
your argumentabout controlling boner and blah blah makes no sense. Why not, like Murad said, have people pray nude nexxt to each other - controlling your boner at that time becomes even more challenging - that's a better testament to the devotion to a prayer??

Get your basics right first before progressing.
Pure codswallop. Being nude does not make a woman automatically sexy. It's all about curves, attitude, confidence, style. Sometimes I even surprise myself gawking at figures of chicks in hijab.

Society at one time WAS nude before progressing to clothes out of leaves and stuffs, no? Needless to mention Murad's snickering extrapolation teemed with prejudice was a bad stretch in itself.
  #34  
Old March 31, 2012, 10:18 PM
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I urge everyone to take a time out before responding. From past history, threads like these tend to go south very rapidly and I really do not want any of you to do the unthinkable and leave us. So please:



We are watching you.

- As admin.
  #35  
Old March 31, 2012, 10:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iDumb
how many times have you prayed brother? I have attended prayers multiple times where women and men prayed under one Imam. Women's space is not substandard. In one of the prayer, it was so crowded, we prayed in rain, on street while the sisters prayed inside on carpet. Don't just say things for the sake of it... Usually places where women are given the honor of attending prayers are taken care of better than men. We always went by women and children first principal.



your argumentabout controlling boner and blah blah makes no sense. Why not, like Murad said, have people pray nude nexxt to each other - controlling your boner at that time becomes even more challenging - that's a better testament to the devotion to a prayer??

Get your basics right first before progressing.
I can only speak from my experiences, and they are as follows: an overwhelming amount of mosques I've prayed in always relegated women to the back of the mosque in tiny quarters. The speaker systems sometimes worked, sometimes didn't - and no one seemed to mind. Many times sister's rooms were being used as storage rooms - regardless of how many women prayed there. Lot's of other examples, too. Besides, I believe that inherently "Separate but equal" is unequal.

If my argument about controlling boner makes no sense, then how does your argument about not being able to control negative thoughts make sense? Also, you said that Islamic prayer is "all about body touches" ... I fail to see how. Explain?

It comes down to how you respond to the opposite sex: if you think you will get a boner and not focus on your prayers if you are standing next to a woman, then it's you. Don't lend that trait to others. You are free to go pray amid men and not get turned on. (assuming you are straight).

Like I said, the progressive movement is about having a CHOICE.
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  #36  
Old March 31, 2012, 10:26 PM
iDumb iDumb is offline
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OK brother! You win. You go pray next to muslim sisters if they allow you to. I know I am not allowing any women next to me while I pray.

And I was just about to echo what Zunaid bhai said, but he came in anyway.. I will be staying out of this thread. This is just the other spectrum of religious extremism.. blasphemous really.
  #37  
Old March 31, 2012, 10:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iDumb
OK brother! You win. You go pray next to muslim sisters if they allow you to. I know I am not allowing any women next to me while I pray.

And I was just about to echo what Zunaid bhai said, but he came in anyway.. I will be staying out of this thread. This is just the other spectrum of religious extremism.. blasphemous really.
Wasn't fighting brother!

Blasphemy is really abstract ... it's not universal.
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  #38  
Old March 31, 2012, 10:30 PM
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Group hug y'all?
  #39  
Old March 31, 2012, 10:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeeshan
But my question is why is ELECTREQUIEM so happy about gay-friendly muslims..... Elec? Any congratulatory thread in order?
Sorry to disappoint, but I still like women.
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  #40  
Old March 31, 2012, 10:43 PM
zsayeed zsayeed is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zunaid
[~image removed~]
I urge everyone to take a time out before responding. From past history, threads like these tend to go south very rapidly and I really do not want any of you to do the unthinkable and leave us. So please:
[~snip~]
We are watching you.

- As admin.
Welcome back!
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Last edited by ammark; April 1, 2012 at 02:08 AM.. Reason: mod.quote: Please DO NOT quote large posts, just for the sake of a one liner!
  #41  
Old March 31, 2012, 10:47 PM
zsayeed zsayeed is offline
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Just bought this CD from Amazon.
Check it out - sublime. Will make you forget all this debate.

http://www.amazon.com/Greatest-Hits-.../dp/B000000E4D
Especially Number 1 track!

I've been listening to it for the last 72 minutes - hence my absence. Trust me, I was in a good place.

And, zee-man - I am stone cold sober - like the sharabun tahuran - that which has no ill effect.
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  #42  
Old March 31, 2012, 10:59 PM
oronnya oronnya is offline
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People can do whatever they want.. WHY USING THE ISLAM TAG when you clearly not ready to follow what Islam says... Yes I believe religion is only relevant when someone has evolved as a rational, sensible & matured person.. Religion is neither for the blind followers nor for the atheist..

Rather than liberalizing/modifying a religion liberalize your mind.. set it free.. try to see beyond those verses... try to feel the divinity within only then you will realize what Allah is trying to say through his book...

Whatever creates complications in human life has been banned in Islam ... There is a reason why men and women are not allowed to pray together in a jamat.. If that was allowed how many men do you people think would concentrate in their prayer??? Won't it be the same situation in a gay-friendly mosque??

Anyways everyone is entitled to their opinion but to me it's nothing than just trying to recreate a religion.. they can do it by all means but my request would be not to tag themselves as Muslim..
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Last edited by oronnya; April 1, 2012 at 12:18 AM..
  #43  
Old March 31, 2012, 11:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iDumb
how many times have you prayed brother? I have attended prayers multiple times where women and men prayed under one Imam. Women's space is not substandard. In one of the prayer, it was so crowded, we prayed in rain, on street while the sisters prayed inside on carpet. Don't just say things for the sake of it... Usually places where women are given the honor of attending prayers are taken care of better than men. We always went by women and children first principal.

Get your basics right first before progressing.
Yeah this is same our community mosque. Women pray in the 2nd and 3rd floor and men in first and basement (it stinks sometimes).

During the Eid prayers, men on the streets even in cold weather and women inside.
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  #44  
Old April 1, 2012, 12:05 AM
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Is this a April Fool's joke ??
I mean this article ??

Cuz it would be very sad if it wasn't.
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  #45  
Old April 1, 2012, 12:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rabz
Is this a April Fool's joke ??
I mean this article ??

Cuz it would be very sad if it wasn't.
It's not. Why is it sad?
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  #46  
Old April 1, 2012, 12:45 AM
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No offense to any one here. I am surprised by the level of ignorance. It's even more dangerous when people pass on their views about what they think is "Islamic" or "unislamic" with little or no knowledge of Islam. I by no means claim to be a scholar or even a practicing Muslim.

Someone mentioned above we need to find out what Islam says about women leading prayer and Gays attending prayers. Really??

There is a reason why women should not lead prayers. I do not have the proper hadith quote. Therefore, I am not going into the explanation.

Besides, there is no recognition of homosexuality in Islam let alone letting gays attending prayer. Homosexuality is considered a sin in Islam. Period. To be honest, there are things in Islam that I can't whole heartedly accept. Does it mean I change the religion to my linking? I have clear choice to accept it as God's word or reject it. Of course, I must sincerely do research to understand the logic behind before I make my mind. Allowing what is clearly forbidden in Islam and then tagging it as Islam is pure hypocrisy. In other words, you are not being honest to yourself.

Disclaimer: I have NOTHING against gays. In fact I have had gay friends.
  #47  
Old April 1, 2012, 12:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sufism
No offense to any one here. I am surprised by the level of ignorance. It's even more dangerous when people pass on their views about what they think is "Islamic" or "unislamic" with little or no knowledge of Islam. I by no means claim to be a scholar or even a practicing Muslim.

Someone mentioned above we need to find out what Islam says about women leading prayer and Gays attending prayers. Really??

There is a reason why women should not lead prayers. I do not have the proper hadith quote. Therefore, I am not going into the explanation.

Besides, there is no recognition of homosexuality in Islam let alone letting gays attending prayer. Homosexuality is considered a sin in Islam. Period. To be honest, there are things in Islam that I can't whole heartedly accept. Does it mean I change the religion to my linking? I have clear choice to accept it as God's word or reject it. Of course, I must sincerely do research to understand the logic behind before I make my mind. Allowing what is clearly forbidden in Islam and then tagging it as Islam is pure hypocrisy. In other words, you are not being honest to yourself.

Disclaimer: I have NOTHING against gays. In fact I have had gay friends.
What's the reason women should not lead prayers?

Can you show where homosexuality is clearly forbidden?

What do you do with those things you cannot accept in Islam?
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  #48  
Old April 1, 2012, 12:56 AM
sufism sufism is offline
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Those who want to know what Holly Quran say about Homosexuality, please wait for Rifat or someone else off knowledge to provide you with appropriate quotes. Until then please refrain from passing on your "views" of what you think Islam preaches. You are not doing justice to yourself and others who are reading it. Why can't we stay quiet when we know that we have little or no knowledge about something, particularly religion.
  #49  
Old April 1, 2012, 12:57 AM
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It's sad becuase it was not practiced and presecribed by the Prophet and the subsequent three best generations, and now we are introducing these changes in the name of evolution and for the sake of to fit in the modern world.

Now, going with the hadith (mahfum) when you see a bad action, prevent it with hands. If you can't then by our tongue. I can't do it here because its an internet forum and words will be misunderstood or misquoted. But I feel those things bad in my heart, and yes mine is the weakest of Iman.

I don't wanna label anyone as either Muslim or Kafir. Allah knows what is in our hearts. And also He hasn't created me to judge others. I just pray that these innovations don't get accepted. I pray for all of us and for all of our guidance.

As Doc Z said, threads like this can slowly go out of control. So its better to avoid them. I am assuming, yes assuming, that none of us are gay and trying to be imam or looking for an women to pray behind.

If any one is really interested to find out why I don't agree with any of the actions, you can PM me. I don't agree because Prophet didn't agree. And he never did anything out of his desires or whims but only followed the orders of Allah.

May Allah guide us all to the straight path.
  #50  
Old April 1, 2012, 01:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Electrequiem
What do you do with those things you cannot accept in Islam?
I would try to research to figure out what is the reason behind this. In this particular instance praying behind a woman, just think about it logically. Say you are praying behind a woman, it is very possible that even when you are 100% focused you might just look at her 'butt' without even realizing that you did it. Now that's not the most ideal picture you want to have when you are praying. You already have satan trying to get you to lose your focus, and start thinking other stuff, you don't need to help him in his cause.

I skimmed through the article really quickly, I understood it was talking about woman and gay people leading the prayer. please correct me if I'm wrong.
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