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  #26  
Old May 8, 2012, 05:54 AM
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Off topic, but Mashrafe might be the most hard working cricketer in Bangladesh......I remember seeing a tweet from Shane Jurgensen saying he was back at the gym right after Asia Cup!
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  #27  
Old May 8, 2012, 05:55 AM
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^^ This isnt something the trainer can enforce in the team. He cant force people to train hard. It shows that the player isnt ambitious enough to train. Its upto the senior players themselves to instill that belief into the team. Thats what makes Shakib a big component to the team.
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  #28  
Old May 8, 2012, 06:09 AM
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Ian Pont Ian Pont is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zinatf
^^for that you have to tell this to Grant Luden-----the designated trainer for the Bangladesh Cricket Team
...and I could tell you of the times Grant has been waiting to train with certain players who didn't even bother to show up! So please don't put this on Grant, who is a world class trainer by the way. Grant is there to facilitate for the players, to help them train and to advance their physical skills. It's not his fault if people don't want to do it.

It is also difficult if the players then complain to the BCB that coaches are pushing them too hard and they are 'tired'. Things may then get changed from 'above' and the coaches are left in the difficult situation of having the players do what they want.

If you allow people to be their own guide, then they have to understand what is expected of an international player. If it is left to those who have no idea, then it is the blind leading the blind. And we all wonder why cricket isn't improving?

Go figure....
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  #29  
Old May 8, 2012, 06:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian Pont
...and I could tell you of the times Grant has been waiting to train with certain players who didn't even bother to show up! So please don't put this on Grant, who is a world class trainer by the way. Grant is there to facilitate for the players, to help them train and to advance their physical skills. It's not his fault if people don't want to do it.

It is also difficult if the players then complain to the BCB that coaches are pushing them too hard and they are 'tired'. Things may then get changed from 'above' and the coaches are left in the difficult situation of having the players do what they want.

If you allow people to be their own guide, then they have to understand what is expected of an international player. If it is left to those who have no idea, then it is the blind leading the blind. And we all wonder why cricket isn't improving?

Go figure....
So the team has to reinforce a 'work hard' training moral to get the best out of the players? This makes the senior players the role models. The senior players need to notice the responsibility for the team. I guess Mashrafe works really hard in training. Hopefully everyone watches him in training and NOT Shakib.
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  #30  
Old May 8, 2012, 06:37 AM
Equinox Equinox is offline
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Another reason for him not to be the captain.
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  #31  
Old May 8, 2012, 06:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BengaliPagol
So the team has to reinforce a 'work hard' training moral to get the best out of the players? This makes the senior players the role models. The senior players need to notice the responsibility for the team. I guess Mashrafe works really hard in training. Hopefully everyone watches him in training and NOT Shakib.
Some people (like Mash, Mushy, Rocky (when he was in the side), and others) CHOOSE to work hard and do as much as they can in nets, training, fielding etc. But no professional cricketer should really have to be told to train.

If a player is not prepared to get the best out of himself then is it any wonder why an entire team with that approach would fail consistently?

The very bottom line here, is as it always has been: it is not about the coaching staff (who are international professionals) but about the players themselves. We all know about the excuse culture that abounds in Bangladesh cricket. Resisting the changes that are needed starts at the top and ends with the players.

The sad truth is, if the players wanted to make a difference they could. Coaches like Grant, Shane, Jason and Stuart are there to help.

You can appoint as many John Wrights, Richard Pybus's and Mick Newell's as you wish, but it won't amount to a hill of beans unless everyone buys into the message.

Bangladesh cricket doesn't need a big named coach. It needs a change of mindset.
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  #32  
Old May 8, 2012, 07:01 AM
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Mushfiq is a great example of improvement
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  #33  
Old May 8, 2012, 07:09 AM
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Shakib didn't do "Hagu" this morning. - A great concern!!

If Shakib is Lazy then you are lazy "square", wait!! No lazy "cube". Don't throw rocks at others while sitting in a glass house. ghorey boise internet'a bandwidth noshto kortaso. Go outside and do something fruitful. Help the needy. Feed the hunger!! Jotto shob.
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  #34  
Old May 8, 2012, 07:11 AM
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The role model thing - any 18/19 year old is old enough to realize the importance of hard work. Anyone who isn't as talented as Shakib should know he has to work hard to get to the top and if he thinks otherwise just because Shakib doesn't train, then he's got the brain of a 4 year old and doesn't deserve to play.

If you have a role model, you should pick up what he does best, not what he does worst. Even better, be your own role model if you can. If you can't tell good and bad apart when you're 19, you might as well stay away from professional sport. Let's stop treating guys like Asif and Anamul like kids.

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  #35  
Old May 8, 2012, 07:17 AM
Zunaid Zunaid is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tigers_eye
Shakib didn't do "Hagu" this morning. - A great concern!!

If Shakib is Lazy then you are lazy "square", wait!! No lazy "cube". Don't throw rocks at others while sitting in a glass house. ghorey boise internet'a bandwidth noshto kortaso. Go outside and do something fruitful. Help the needy. Feed the hunger!! Jotto shob.
You don't get the point do you? Forget about the role model crap but Shakib is a supposed to be a professional athlete and a professional is always sharpening and hoing his skills to want to do better than he can. Just because he is so very good, a class away from the rest of the players (yes, even Tamim), he can get away with it, and he so very good even on a world level that he can coast without the hard work. Imagine if he did put the effort?
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  #36  
Old May 8, 2012, 07:17 AM
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Boy, is this thread interesting! Loving everyone's opinion on the topic and the matter. Good thread, BengaliPagol
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  #37  
Old May 8, 2012, 07:18 AM
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im more worried about these meaningless threads
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  #38  
Old May 8, 2012, 07:23 AM
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So the bottom line is, Shakib is a professional, and he is required to put in as much effort as the whole team. He doesn't get away with it, just because he's the star player. Being in the squad for almost 6 years now, he's supposed to set an example through his work ethic.

And what concerns people is, imagine if he'd put in that extra effort during training, he'd could polish his abilities and be a better cricketer.

But what worries me is, as Ian pointed out, he had the same attitude when he was at Worcs.
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  #39  
Old May 8, 2012, 07:28 AM
Zunaid Zunaid is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AsifTheManRahman
The role model thing - any 18/19 year old is old enough to realize the importance of hard work. Anyone who isn't as talented as Shakib should know he has to work hard to get to the top and if he thinks otherwise just because Shakib doesn't train, then he's got the brain of a 4 year old and doesn't deserve to play.

If you have a role model, you should pick up what he does best, not what he does worst. Even better, be your own role model if you can. If you can't tell good and bad apart when you're 19, you might as well stay away from professional sport. Let's stop treating guys like Asif and Anamul like kids.

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The problem is that we even treat mid 20s like kids let alone guys the age Anamul and Asif. We treat them like kid and they act like kids. When the going gets tough, they go home crying to momma, or to someone else. Remember when McInnes tried to bring in modern training methods and the kids actually had to work - there was such a hue and cry , like a storm in a ice water bucket, but that went away as his charges started delivering and they are still delivering today.

And wasn't there that incident where some football players were refusing to train because the coach was working them too hard? Guess what your football ranking is today?

We should pandering. We should stop being complacent. We should stop passing the buck. We should be responsible for out own fate and work on changing and improving it.

I recommend everyone read the book 'Outliers' by Malcolm Gladwell.

His basic premise: The key to success in any field is, to a large extent, a matter of practicing a specific task for a total of around 10,000 hours. The 10K number may be an arbitrarily chosen large number, but the essence of the book is - practice, practice, practice.

They can all play at Carnegie Hall.
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  #40  
Old May 8, 2012, 07:35 AM
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I heard that Sakib practices cricket via Playstation.

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  #41  
Old May 8, 2012, 07:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AsifTheManRahman
The role model thing - any 18/19 year old is old enough to realize the importance of hard work. Anyone who isn't as talented as Shakib should know he has to work hard to get to the top and if he thinks otherwise just because Shakib doesn't train, then he's got the brain of a 4 year old and doesn't deserve to play.

If you have a role model, you should pick up what he does best, not what he does worst. Even better, be your own role model if you can. If you can't tell good and bad apart when you're 19, you might as well stay away from professional sport. Let's stop treating guys like Asif and Anamul like kids.

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Exactly....
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  #42  
Old May 8, 2012, 07:48 AM
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A lot like the situation where a boy doesn't study and still aces the class. There will always be a "if he studied......." cry. But you have to understand that orthodox technique need not work for everyone.
Shakib is a special talent, and no one can deny that. And training extra hard could make him a better player, but what if training hard and playing cricket for 3 years non stop gets to him and he crashes at some point? I say dont fix it, until it's broken.

And as for taking role models, many footballers took Maradona as their role model, but almost every one had the common sense to not follow his drug addiction! If you are not smart enough to realize the value of hard work, then you dont deserve to be among the top.
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  #43  
Old May 8, 2012, 08:10 AM
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Hit thread
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  #44  
Old May 8, 2012, 08:10 AM
hasibhussain hasibhussain is offline
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Default Micheal Jordan

I remember once when Micheal Jordan (The all time greatest basket ball player in the world) was asked in an interview on what gets him going even after winning so many championships, he answered "continuous improvement". That is the motto for champions and that is also the motto for every common man making a living. So I see no reason where we can argue against the value of training.
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  #45  
Old May 8, 2012, 08:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hasibhussain
I remember once when Micheal Jordan (The all time greatest basket ball player in the world) was asked in an interview on what gets him going even after winning so many championships, he answered "continuous improvement". That is the motto for champions and that is also the motto for every common man making a living. So I see no reason where we can argue against the value of training.
That's beautiful. And true in every aspect of life.

Problem with Shakib saying he is number one and does not need to practice too much is that others in the team follow that pattern. They might not even like Shakib, but straight away they can point to Swift and say why isn't he doing these drills and we have to?

I know that Tamim does not practice too hard.. probably because he considers himself the best of the country. And herein lies the problem. If Shakib is the best bowler in the country and the second best batsman, and he doesn't practice, why should our supposedly best batsman in the country, Tamim, practice?

Never mind the fact Tamim and every single batsman in the country cannot even dream of three centuries in a row, even when in the best of forms. Often, I feel their lazy training habits come on to the field, where they are often reluctant to push ones on to twos, and unable to play long innings and score hundreds after getting big starts. Often the difference between Bangladesh and opponents is someone in opposition getting one big score, and our one losing concentration after scoring a fifty. In bowling, its equivalent is bowling a loose/boundary ball every over or two in the middle of excellent spells. The inability to stick to gameplans- when Mashrafee is bowling really tight at one end, Shahadat bowling short balls on a flat track and giving 8 runs per over. All come down to laziness, of the body and/or the mind.

Don't get me wrong. I, and many others here, probably won't be able to keep up for one whole week of Shakib's training. However, cricket is his job, not ours. So compare apples with apples. Compare Shakib with Gambhir, Brett Lee and Michael Vaughan, not with a non-cricketer's work ethic. I am sure Shakib's training regime isn't pathetic, but what Ian and the coaches ask for from him isn't overambitious at all.
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  #46  
Old May 8, 2012, 08:32 AM
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worry for whom the new generation??

People say that he is supposed to be a role model, and he is. Children will definitely follow him. But follow him at what sense? The cool customer in the cricket field or the lazy guy who likes to spend time in front of PS3, TV watching football which he loves so much?

Someone who wants to succeed will follow the first part. The cool calm and highly professional sakib. Think about it, no one can become like messi, ronaldo, tendulkar, just by having similar hairstyles, same clothing and so on. But they should follow the good things things about them as ATMR said some a while ago.
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  #47  
Old May 8, 2012, 08:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by simon
I heard that Sakib practices cricket via Playstation.

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EA Sports Cricket 07 naki? Is he even there in the squad list in the game?
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  #48  
Old May 8, 2012, 08:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian Pont
...and I could tell you of the times Grant has been waiting to train with certain players who didn't even bother to show up! So please don't put this on Grant, who is a world class trainer by the way. Grant is there to facilitate for the players, to help them train and to advance their physical skills. It's not his fault if people don't want to do it.

It is also difficult if the players then complain to the BCB that coaches are pushing them too hard and they are 'tired'. Things may then get changed from 'above' and the coaches are left in the difficult situation of having the players do what they want.

If you allow people to be their own guide, then they have to understand what is expected of an international player. If it is left to those who have no idea, then it is the blind leading the blind. And we all wonder why cricket isn't improving?

Go figure....
Holy Cow!! Poor Grant.
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  #49  
Old May 8, 2012, 08:52 AM
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Ian Pont Ian Pont is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zunaid
The problem is that we even treat mid 20s like kids let alone guys the age Anamul and Asif. We treat them like kid and they act like kids. When the going gets tough, they go home crying to momma, or to someone else. Remember when McInnes tried to bring in modern training methods and the kids actually had to work - there was such a hue and cry , like a storm in a ice water bucket, but that went away as his charges started delivering and they are still delivering today.

And wasn't there that incident where some football players were refusing to train because the coach was working them too hard? Guess what your football ranking is today?

We should pandering. We should stop being complacent. We should stop passing the buck. We should be responsible for out own fate and work on changing and improving it.

I recommend everyone read the book 'Outliers' by Malcolm Gladwell.

His basic premise: The key to success in any field is, to a large extent, a matter of practicing a specific task for a total of around 10,000 hours. The 10K number may be an arbitrarily chosen large number, but the essence of the book is - practice, practice, practice.

They can all play at Carnegie Hall.
Solid post.

Those of us working in biomechanics (movement of the body) teach 10,000 repetitions for muscle memory to be correctly learned. It simply means if you want to make a particular skill 'natural' (or change something to be natural) it takes 10,000 repetitions of it. It would explain why doing way less than this leads to it being inconsistent under pressure.

How many times have fans come on here and said "so and so doesn't move his feet" or that "such and such a player played some crazy shot"? The reason is they have not practiced what the OUGHT to do enough (nets) and therefore will constantly go out and under perform.

When you are under pressure you revert to what your sub-conscious has learned and done all day long. You teach the changes by training the changes over that length of time.

Test batting averages, which are the genuine measure of a batsman's skill, whilst they don't tell the whole story certainly tell a large part of it.

"World Class" batsmen: Kallis 57.44, Sangakarra 56.25, Tendulkar 56.02, Trott 55.75, Younis Khan 53.20, Ponting 53,44, Sehwag 52.21 explain why they are where they are.

A random sample of Bangladesh batsmen: Shakib 34.68, Tamim 38.00, Nasir 29.58, Ash 22.60, Nazimmudin 30.25, Imrul 17.15 explain why they are where they are. Plus we have to remember that the Bangladesh stats are mostly against lesser ranked teams too.

Matt Prior who bats at 7 for England, averages 43.09 in Tests as a comparison.

Only the Bangladesh players can do something about that. If players are happy just to be in the side then there's not much hope. If they want to become the best they can, then the coaches can make something of them.

To be the best, you have to beat the best - consistently, day in, day out. It starts on the training ground and in the gym. The coaches have always been there to help.

Whenever someone points the finger of blame at someone else, always look where his other fingers are pointing.
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  #50  
Old May 8, 2012, 09:01 AM
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Pont I know how you feel about the team but at the end of the day who is to be blamed really?

The issue is that you feel find that our players sometime get FREE TICKETS to match, so even if they underperform he isnt under muc scrutiny. If he scores just one 50 people start running after him. Nasir played just 13 matches and he already has a century and 3 50s already in intl cricket. While we BD fans praise some mediocre players like jahurul, nazimuddin and few others just after they score a a fifty or two. Shahadat took 5 wicket halls some ages ago and we still consider him as a quality fast bowler.

I think we fans are to be blamed for the low standards that we set for ourselves. For example we may be happy with tamim scoring those 4 50s but he shouldve gone onto score a century in at least two of them. Many of you havent noticed, but VIRAT KOHLI has scored more centuries than any of our players in Mirpur!!! 5 centuries!! and this very guy didnt get a test call until a year ago!
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