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  #26  
Old May 29, 2012, 07:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by World Champs
but the greatest of all of them is vinay Kumar.
lol you forgot Sir Sreesanth
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  #27  
Old May 29, 2012, 05:41 PM
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DALE STEYN....end of story

from Bangla: Mashrafe and Rubel
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  #28  
Old May 29, 2012, 06:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TigerEz
DALE STEYN....end of story

from Bangla: Mashrafe and Rubel
No doubt the best at current and one of the best strike rates ever for wickets taken and matches played but some of the former greats were just as good or better imo
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  #29  
Old May 30, 2012, 01:03 AM
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I would say out of the bowlers i have seen since the 90s it would have to be Wasim Akram.
From the older generations I guess it would be Malcom Marshall based on the video footages I have seen of him as well his stats.

This is my criteria
Pace: Wasim had plenty of pace even during the later years with a shortened run-up
Swing: He was the absolute master of swinging the ball both ways in any condition
Accuracy: I have rarely seen him get hit for sixes, he generally maintained a superb line and length always attacking the stumps always looking for lbws
Variety: He knew how to bowl every delivery... the special one was the reverse swinging yorkers he would bowl at the death overs in ODIs and also in Test cricket to the tail enders.
Fitness: He is one guy that rarely got injured even though he played in both ODI and Tests
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  #30  
Old May 30, 2012, 01:43 AM
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Malinga
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  #31  
Old May 30, 2012, 02:54 AM
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My XI from the ones I've seen:

1. Holding
2. Lillee
3. Ambrose
4. Garner
5. Croft
6. Bishop
7. Wasim
8. Waqar
9. Steyn
10. Donald
11. Malinga

Nasty, vicious deliveries always threatening to take a wicket.
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  #32  
Old May 30, 2012, 02:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeeshan
Malinga
Malinga looks the best of the current lot in T-20 format but is he really test quality?
He picks wickets with his yorkers and short balls in a format where batters have to take risks.
If you look at his test stats it is nothing great... averaging 33 per wicket
http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/conte...yer/49758.html
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  #33  
Old May 30, 2012, 04:21 AM
Gowza Gowza is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sohel NR
My XI from the ones I've seen:

1. Holding
2. Lillee
3. Ambrose
4. Garner
5. Croft
6. Bishop
7. Wasim
8. Waqar
9. Steyn
10. Donald
11. Malinga

Nasty, vicious deliveries always threatening to take a wicket.
yes some of those bowlers did hurl down vicious deliveries, there's some footage on youtube of alan donald bowling to the waugh brothers and that was vicious! croft was certainly vicious and ferocious to, waqar with his yorkers, late swing and pace, garner was one of the best yorker bowlers of all time as well, wasim was awesome with the old ball, steyn is a pretty complete bowler as is lillee, ambrose was just awesome as was holding, malinga is terrific but struggles with the fitness and holding is one of the best ever, bishop unfortunately had the injuries but was great nonetheless.

courtney walsh was really good to.
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  #34  
Old May 30, 2012, 04:30 AM
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Hadlee (after he compromised initial pace, became more accurate, and finally a champion bowler in the process), Walsh, McGrath, Vaas and now Gul are five of my favorite bowlers, but that has more to do with their artfully intelligent scripting than raw-n-steady nastiness. Facing any one of the ones in that XI must be/have been like facing a firing squad with a wooden spoon. That being said, the five guys in this post also bowled more than their fair share of nasty deliveries

I'd love to see Malinga play tests again.
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  #35  
Old May 30, 2012, 04:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sohel NR
Hadlee (after he compromised initial pace, became more accurate, and finally a champion bowler in the process), Walsh, McGrath, Vaas and now Gul are five of my favorite bowlers, but that has more to do with their artfully intelligent scripting than raw-n-steady nastiness. Facing any one of the ones in that XI must be/have been like facing a firing squad with a wooden spoon. That being said, the five guys in this post also bowled more than their fair share of nasty deliveries

I'd love to see Malinga play tests again.
yeah walsh is one who could bowl some really nasty delivieries, moreso than the others i'd say but they're all quality bowlers.
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  #36  
Old May 30, 2012, 12:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jadukor
Malinga looks the best of the current lot in T-20 format but is he really test quality?
He picks wickets with his yorkers and short balls in a format where batters have to take risks.
If you look at his test stats it is nothing great... averaging 33 per wicket
http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/conte...yer/49758.html
Yeah I forgot that we are dealing with Tests....
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  #37  
Old May 30, 2012, 04:09 PM
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I always felt Mohammad Amir could have been a great bowler. He had so much potential, but greed came in the way..
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  #38  
Old May 30, 2012, 07:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Navo
I always felt Mohammad Amir could have been a great bowler. He had so much potential, but greed came in the way..
he had great oace for someone so young and had pretty decent line and length, he certainly had the potential, as much as anyone around. we may actually see him back to it sooner than we expect.
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  #39  
Old May 31, 2012, 02:28 AM
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Marshall
Lillee
Ambrose
McGrath
Akram
Garner
Hadlee
Imran
Truman
Donald

For your original list I'd add these names:
Australia: McDermott, Gillespie
England: Botham, Barnes (he wasn't a spinner)
South Africa: Ntini

Mortaza, Malinga, Nissar, Asif, Akhtar and Streak just seem to be there to make up the numbers for their countries. A great should be considered great no matter what team he played for. If they're on this list you have to assume they would have been a great even if they played for West Indies in the 80s, or at least been next in line after Marshall, Croft, Garner and Holding.
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  #40  
Old May 31, 2012, 03:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TimAus
Marshall
Lillee
Ambrose
McGrath
Akram
Garner
Hadlee
Imran
Truman
Donald

For your original list I'd add these names:
Australia: McDermott, Gillespie
England: Botham, Barnes (he wasn't a spinner)
South Africa: Ntini

Mortaza, Malinga, Nissar, Asif, Akhtar and Streak just seem to be there to make up the numbers for their countries. A great should be considered great no matter what team he played for. If they're on this list you have to assume they would have been a great even if they played for West Indies in the 80s, or at least been next in line after Marshall, Croft, Garner and Holding.
my method was to pick the best from each country and wittle it down from their that's why malinga, mortaza, nissar etc were in the original post. as far as barnes is concerned there are definitely people who argue that he was a spinner, even his cricinfo profile says he could bowl the off-spinner and leg break, he had a lot more variety and people have said he didn't just cut the ball he actually spun it, just did it at a quicker pace than anyone else. i'm not saying he definitely isn't a pacer but there is definitely enough information to suggest he could be labelled a spinner. but basically he could bowl anything.

for the other names you brought up, i wouldn't consider mcdermott an all time great, one of australia's best though. gillespie in his prime was awesome an again one of australia's best but not an all timer. botham was a great allrounder a a really good pacer but again like with mcdermott and gillespie not up there with the all times for the world. now ntini, he was very good for south africa but again not an all timer. they could have been mentioned in my first post but my criteria for that was the question, could they have been rated as the all time best for their country? i actually did think about putting ntini, mcdermott and gillespie, with barnes it was as i said i left him how due to that dispute but obviously to a person that considered him a pacer he is one of the best ever if not the best ever.
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  #41  
Old July 23, 2012, 07:23 PM
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walsh i feel is terribly underrated, just shy of 4 wickets a test match, might not of had quite the pace of some of the other west indian greats but garner didn't either and people still rate him, mcgrath also didn't have that blistering pace but is considered great. at one stage walsh was bowling very quickly but his movement off the seam and his accurate and consistent line and length are what made him great. i often here people say walsh is very good but not a great, first to 500 wickets, just shy of 4 wickets a test, average of 24 puts him as a great for me, not a top 10er but still a great.
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  #42  
Old July 23, 2012, 09:48 PM
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I think Steyn should be higher up than he is. He has a strike in the early 40s...in today's era of flat tracks and with all the crazy good batsman around the world. And he doesn't stop taking wickets. I'd rate him higher than a lot of other greats who played in more bowling-friendly wickets against batsman who didn't have helmets and when an average of 45 meant you were godly. Same reason I rank Waqar higher than Wasim (though I've never watched either of them). Even Shoaib had an insane strike rate and it was still far higher than Steyn's. Only man who could match Steyn's penchant for wicket taking was Shane Bond.

This is purely a statistical thing, but I think at the end of the day that should count most heavily.
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  #43  
Old July 23, 2012, 09:57 PM
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yes steyn has an astonishing strike rate, for so many matches and he's closing in on 300 tests wickets, but he is still in the middle of his career, great atm, wonder what it will be by the end of his career. i remember when it was still under 40, it's not far off but it's slowly going upwards and if he is like most fast bowlers they drop pace in the last few years which for a lot of them makes them a little bit less dangerous (though still great bowlers).

i also rate waqar better than wasim, waqar also has an incredible strike rate and his in swingers were incredible, he also had blistering pace. i watched both waqar and wasim and definitely put waqar ahead of wasim. i haven't personally done much research on wasim, but from what i've heard people have said he was effective later in an innings with the ball reversing but not nearly as effective early on in an innings. my opinion on wasim has been mainly from basic stats and what i have seen.

waqar imo, is the most destructive fast bowler of all time. i wouldn't call any other fast bowler "destructive". a few of them can dismantle an opposition, scare them and take bags of wickets, but i wouldn't necessarily describe them as destructive, yet when i think of waqar that's the first word that pops into my head.
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  #44  
Old July 23, 2012, 10:03 PM
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^^haven't seen Waqar or Wasim? wow how young are you?

As a Test bowler Steyn will definitely be there with the greats once he finishes. He might not be the greatest pace bowler for South Africa since there is Donald as a competitor but personally having seen both Donald and Steyn I would rate them both as equally good.

The only criticism I have of Steyn is his lack of impact in the ODIs. The greats in the above list never got whacked around in any format but Steyn seems to really get hammered when he is not in rhythm.
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  #45  
Old July 24, 2012, 12:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jadukor
^^haven't seen Waqar or Wasim? wow how young are you?

As a Test bowler Steyn will definitely be there with the greats once he finishes. He might not be the greatest pace bowler for South Africa since there is Donald as a competitor but personally having seen both Donald and Steyn I would rate them both as equally good.

The only criticism I have of Steyn is his lack of impact in the ODIs. The greats in the above list never got whacked around in any format but Steyn seems to really get hammered when he is not in rhythm.
donald and steyn are different bowlers so tough to pick a winner there, but i always liked donalds aggression and nastiness, ok it's not nice for a batsman but that's what made cricket exciting in the 70s and 80s, the WI quicks were terrorising batsmen, it's something that doesn't happen these days. i'll tell you if the england bowlers the other day chucked in some nasty deliveries when they weren't able to get the wickets then they would have actually got some. i guess it's more sporting.....nicer....but it does take away from the battle between batsman and bowler imo.

steyn if he's to continue on as he is no question will be a great, but really he's only done half his career, he's got 5 years left in him if not more unless he decides to hang up his whites early.
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  #46  
Old July 24, 2012, 12:58 AM
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From what I have seen in my lifetime it has to be Wasim and Waqar. They were easily the most fearsome duo in both format. Used to routinely bowl out opposition together. Wasim was a magician with the bowl and is probably the greatest left arm fast bowler of all time while an on song Waqar Younis was a sight to behold! So many times they will win matches where the opposition needed something ridiculously easy like 35-40 runs from 60 balls in ODIs with 6-7 wickets left! It was surreal!
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  #47  
Old July 24, 2012, 01:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shehwar
From what I have seen in my lifetime it has to be Wasim and Waqar. They were easily the most fearsome duo in both format. Used to routinely bowl out opposition together. Wasim was a magician with the bowl and is probably the greatest left arm fast bowler of all time while an on song Waqar Younis was a sight to behold! So many times they will win matches where the opposition needed something ridiculously easy like 35-40 runs from 60 balls in ODIs with 6-7 wickets left! It was surreal!
Agreed. The sight of Wasim terrorizing left handers and Waqar's unplayable yorkers was pace bowling at it's best. With those two around Pakistan knew that could win from virtually any position.
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  #48  
Old July 24, 2012, 08:18 AM
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yep when it comes to best opening pairs waqar and wasim are in with a shout. also have lillee and thomson and mcgrath and gillespie were a decent pair, otherwise pollock and donald and then the great WI pacemen, any of them paired together were great.
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  #49  
Old July 24, 2012, 12:46 PM
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I think Shahadat and Abul will give everyone a run for their money, past, present and future.
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  #50  
Old July 24, 2012, 12:47 PM
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If I had to list it down:

1) Richard Hadlee (Tremendous line and length; one of the best outswingers in the game, his record in both away and home stands out)

2) Malcolm Marshall (What a champion bowler)

3) Dennis Lillee (Revolutionized fast bowling big time; started with raw pace early in his career then due to injury had to cut down some pace but still took regular wickets with great strike rate)

4) Ray Lindwall (Member of Bradman's "The Invincibles" team; had ability to bowl with serious pace with late outswingers, his action is rated as one of the best- Poetry In Motion)

5) Tie between Curtly Ambrose and Glenn Mcgrath
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