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  #51  
Old July 24, 2012, 05:06 PM
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1) Malcolm Marshal, first and foremost. I rate him higher than the other Windies great because he could seam _and_ swing and was as nasty and quick as any of them
2) Wasim Akram. Read interviews of every top batsman from late 80s to early Noughties ...when asked who the hated to face the most, the most likely response was Akram. Rated by even the old fogies (Benauds, Boycotts) as the best left arm fast bowler of all time.
3) Holding. Whispering death would just make you stupid. Ask Mr. Boycott
4) McGrath. No, pace, no extravagant movement? So what. If bowling is brain surgery then he was the master.
5) Larwood. Caused more cricket rules to be changed than any other bowler with his combination of pace, hostility and accuracy. Made Bradman mortal for a brief while.
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  #52  
Old July 25, 2012, 12:12 AM
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I started watching cricket in the 90's and based on the bowlers I have seen, it has to be Wasim Akram. Most versatile fast bowler that I have seen. He has so much in his repertoire that he is one of the only bowlers who could bowl 6 different deliveries in an over. He was a sight. The sultan of swing and had deadly pace too. No comparison as far as I am concerned.
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  #53  
Old July 25, 2012, 11:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RazabQ
1) Malcolm Marshal, first and foremost. I rate him higher than the other Windies great because he could seam _and_ swing and was as nasty and quick as any of them
2) Wasim Akram. Read interviews of every top batsman from late 80s to early Noughties ...when asked who the hated to face the most, the most likely response was Akram. Rated by even the old fogies (Benauds, Boycotts) as the best left arm fast bowler of all time.
3) Holding. Whispering death would just make you stupid. Ask Mr. Boycott
4) McGrath. No, pace, no extravagant movement? So what. If bowling is brain surgery then he was the master.
5) Larwood. Caused more cricket rules to be changed than any other bowler with his combination of pace, hostility and accuracy. Made Bradman mortal for a brief while.
Great to see Larwood being mentioned. "Bodyline" tactics had some impact on overall world cricket
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  #54  
Old July 25, 2012, 10:22 PM
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yeah good to see larwoods name, though for mine even though he was fast and furious there are still a number of other pacers ahead of him, not quite top 10 imo but a great no doubt and yes his tactics in bodyline did influence future pace bowling, that should make him a great in itself.
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  #55  
Old July 26, 2012, 04:03 PM
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I came across a really interesting article yesterday on Cricbuzz.com. They put together the some really interesting stat, and based on them Steyn is already best of the best.

Here is my favorite part of the article
Quote:
He may have the most un-fancy of physiques for a fast bowler, is one of the shorter ones in height but certainly not in stature! Having been born in an era when it is increasingly becoming rare to find good quality fast bowlers, where their numbers are dwindling faster than of the tigers in India, where the game is almost totally skewed in favour of batsmen with short boundaries, restrictions on bouncers, fancy helmets and protective guards, broader and meatier tailor-made bats, unhelpful and dead wickets, fast outfields, where the influx of 20-20 and IPL have tempted the young generation to emulate a Pollard rather than a Roach, it is an absolute privilege to see a fast bowler of Steyn's quality rip through famed batting attacks all over the world.
read the rest here: http://www.cricbuzz.com/cricket-news...ongst-goliaths
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  #56  
Old July 26, 2012, 07:17 PM
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read it yesterday, yes he's got impressive stats, 5 wickets a test match on average, strike rate of 41, 279 wickets. but we can't forget he still has 5+ years of his career left, if he was to retire today he'd be right up their but we can't say whether he'll maintain things, get worse, or get better.
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  #57  
Old July 31, 2012, 07:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gowza
read it yesterday, yes he's got impressive stats, 5 wickets a test match on average, strike rate of 41, 279 wickets. but we can't forget he still has 5+ years of his career left, if he was to retire today he'd be right up their but we can't say whether he'll maintain things, get worse, or get better.
He hasn't gotten worse throughout the 6-7 years of his career thus far, or however long he's been playing. No reason to believe he will. Not unless he plays till age 45. But I think with his level of fitness, he can bowl at 35 just as effectively as he can at age 25. And he's bowled majority of his career against top class batsman (Tendulkar, Dravid, Laxman, Sehwag, Ponting, Hussey, Hayden, Cook, Strauss, KP, Jayawardene, Sangakara) + the general flatness of pitches these days + all the protective equipment batsman have.
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  #58  
Old August 1, 2012, 04:29 AM
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True but most fast bowlers fall away a bit in their later years they often have to reinvent their game, I'm just saying we can't say for sure he will continue as he has done.
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  #59  
Old August 4, 2012, 01:21 AM
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1. Joel Garner
2. Bob Wilis
3. Michael Holding
4. Richard Hadlee
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  #60  
Old August 4, 2012, 02:03 PM
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Ashok Dinda.
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  #61  
Old August 4, 2012, 08:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gowza
True but most fast bowlers fall away a bit in their later years they often have to reinvent their game, I'm just saying we can't say for sure he will continue as he has done.
I feel like he could be like Brett Lee...bowls at 35 the way most tearaways bowl at 22.
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  #62  
Old August 4, 2012, 10:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gowza
...

1 roberts
2 holding
3 garner
4 marshall
5 walsh
6 ambrose
7 croft (reckon he's underrated because his career wasn't the longest but average of 23, strike rate of 49, 4.6 wickets a match is real quality).
9 lillee
10 mcgrath
11 donald
12 hadlee
13 waqar
14 imran
15 steyn
....
No Wasim Akram? With the exception of Marshal I don't think anyone can hang with Wasim.
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  #63  
Old August 5, 2012, 09:12 AM
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Wasim bowled magic balls no doubt and had a lot of variety but he was a much better old ball bowler, one of if not the best left armers so he's definitely up there but for me it's tough to put him in the top 10 and there are just so many great fast bowlers, wasim isn't the only one missing.

Last edited by Gowza; August 15, 2012 at 06:49 AM..
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  #64  
Old August 15, 2012, 06:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tigers_eye
No Wasim Akram? With the exception of Marshal I don't think anyone can hang with Wasim.
i could swap croft for wasim, even though i think croft is underrated. it's tough though, i mean trueman is missing, lindwall, just so many great fast bowlers.
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  #65  
Old August 15, 2012, 06:57 AM
Gowza Gowza is offline
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interesting discussion going on at cricketweb right now:
http://www.cricketweb.net/forum/cric...el-garner.html

donald V garner.

both great bowlers, different types of bowlers garner with line, length, accuracy and bounce. donald with pace, accuracy, bounce and ferocity.
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  #66  
Old August 28, 2012, 12:25 PM
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I completely missed this thread.... But I've been reliving the 'Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse' stories lately.

Check this video out from 1979. Presented by Richie Benaud - the World's Fastest Bowlers!

Given my somewhat selective cricket viewing that only covers games on video from the 70s onwards till the early 2000s, I'd leave Fred Trueman, Wes Hall and Larwood out of my list. Yes, I've watched the bodyline videos and read about it at length, but I'd rather be neutral and not sully their names or throw them in a competition with the next generation that spawned.

Another thing, most great bowlers were heavily complemented by another great bowler from the other end. Its a pity that Vaas did not have that sort of support till much later.

All time great pairs as such can be:

- Dennis Lillee and Jeff Thomson - they were the pioneers of pace and aggressive bowling that set the Windies up for world domination after 1975. They ensured the birth of go-for-the-kill professionalism attitude in world cricket.

- Allan Donald and Shaun Pollock - Allan Donald was deadly, aggressive and would send your stumps cartwheeling away. I wouldnt call him White Lightning for nothing.

- Michael Holding+ Andy Roberts+Colin Croft+Joel Garner - of these I would rate Andy Roberts as being as good as Holding. Simply because he was the mentor to the younger Michael Holding and shaped the Whispering Death in form and shape. No doubt Holding can claim spot no.1 on his own merits, but to leave out Roberts as a close number 2 would be injustice given the context of their times.

- Malcolm Marshall - for sure he took on after Croft and Roberts had gone. But he was undoubtedly the best after Holding got older in the 80s.

- Ambrose and Walsh - Both of them were intense. Walsh may have been slower than Ambrose, but they inherited the legacy of the Four Horsemen, they had Marshall with them and they went at it continuing to knocking the blocks off the batsmen.
- Waqar & Wasim - 'nuff said ; toe crushers, swing, pace, mixing of deliveries, setting up batsmen for the kill, accuracy, you name it!

- Imran Khan - he raised up Wasim and Waqar and alone was an amazing bowler. As a result I'm torn between listing him individually here or adding him to the bullet points above or below.

- Richard Hadlee / Glenn McGrath / Kapil Dev- not just the stats, but their bowling acumen speak for themselves. One man show for bowling in the absence of a dedicated paired partner at the other end. As Gowza said, you had the bursts - whether McDermott/Gillespie/Reiffel for Aus to complement McGrath, but individually they all shone through.

tbh, bowlers like Vaas, Shoaib Akhtar, Brett Lee, Chris Cairns, Dale Steyn, Ntini, , Shane Bond, Flintoff, Harmy, etc are all superb and great bowlers but in comparison to the retired ones in the list above, are yet to leave the lasting legacy to join that list in my mind.
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  #67  
Old August 28, 2012, 06:42 PM
Gowza Gowza is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ammark
I completely missed this thread.... But I've been reliving the 'Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse' stories lately.

Check this video out from 1979. Presented by Richie Benaud - the World's Fastest Bowlers!

Given my somewhat selective cricket viewing that only covers games on video from the 70s onwards till the early 2000s, I'd leave Fred Trueman, Wes Hall and Larwood out of my list. Yes, I've watched the bodyline videos and read about it at length, but I'd rather be neutral and not sully their names or throw them in a competition with the next generation that spawned.

Another thing, most great bowlers were heavily complemented by another great bowler from the other end. Its a pity that Vaas did not have that sort of support till much later.

All time great pairs as such can be:

- Dennis Lillee and Jeff Thomson - they were the pioneers of pace and aggressive bowling that set the Windies up for world domination after 1975. They ensured the birth of go-for-the-kill professionalism attitude in world cricket.

- Allan Donald and Shaun Pollock - Allan Donald was deadly, aggressive and would send your stumps cartwheeling away. I wouldnt call him White Lightning for nothing.

- Michael Holding+ Andy Roberts+Colin Croft+Joel Garner - of these I would rate Andy Roberts as being as good as Holding. Simply because he was the mentor to the younger Michael Holding and shaped the Whispering Death in form and shape. No doubt Holding can claim spot no.1 on his own merits, but to leave out Roberts as a close number 2 would be injustice given the context of their times.

- Malcolm Marshall - for sure he took on after Croft and Roberts had gone. But he was undoubtedly the best after Holding got older in the 80s.

- Ambrose and Walsh - Both of them were intense. Walsh may have been slower than Ambrose, but they inherited the legacy of the Four Horsemen, they had Marshall with them and they went at it continuing to knocking the blocks off the batsmen.
- Waqar & Wasim - 'nuff said ; toe crushers, swing, pace, mixing of deliveries, setting up batsmen for the kill, accuracy, you name it!

- Imran Khan - he raised up Wasim and Waqar and alone was an amazing bowler. As a result I'm torn between listing him individually here or adding him to the bullet points above or below.

- Richard Hadlee / Glenn McGrath / Kapil Dev- not just the stats, but their bowling acumen speak for themselves. One man show for bowling in the absence of a dedicated paired partner at the other end. As Gowza said, you had the bursts - whether McDermott/Gillespie/Reiffel for Aus to complement McGrath, but individually they all shone through.

tbh, bowlers like Vaas, Shoaib Akhtar, Brett Lee, Chris Cairns, Dale Steyn, Ntini, , Shane Bond, Flintoff, Harmy, etc are all superb and great bowlers but in comparison to the retired ones in the list above, are yet to leave the lasting legacy to join that list in my mind.
top post, i like it. great write up, great analysis
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  #68  
Old September 6, 2012, 09:56 PM
Gowza Gowza is offline
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i think atm my top 8 in no order would be lillee, waqar, marshall, garner, roberts, holding, donald and barnes (presuming he's a pacer but the more i read about him the more i hear about how he spun the ball, i'm starting to think he was a carrom spinner, much like mendis and like this new sri lankan kid Akila Dananjaya).
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