Shundor Bangla

[Sohel]

Originally Posted by Banglatiger84
Interesting, what are the main things that distinguish Dhakaiya from Kutti ?

Kutti is packed with working class Urdu words. The traditional Dhakaiya Urdu is totally different BTW, and was spoken by some populist Mughlai and merchant families of old Dhaka. Most of the Mughlai families considered even that Urdu to be a little too "low" and opted to speak Farsi instead.

The Dhakaiya dialect of Bangla is what you hear amongst the non-Kutti, originally local population of Dhaka. That too is a distinct dialect derivative of the dialect in Munshiganj, Gazipur, Narshindi and other surrounding areas.

[zinatf]

I have couple of West Bengal friends....there are some interesting words for example we say "joss" and they say "bepka"! We say "chapa marbi na" and they say "bhaat(not bhat=rice) bokish na"

[zinatf]

Originally Posted by Sohel NR
Code switching is a part of our linguistic heritage and we should celebrate it. That way we preserve the unique character of the language. Guys like Dr. Muhammad Shahidullah and Liberation War Martyrs Dr. Munir Chaudhury and Dr. Mofazzal Haider Chaudhury created the shuddho Bangla standard based on own experience, not the Kolkatan.

You know what Sohel Bhai, this reminded me of Humayun Faridi's interview at PA, which I read some years ago. There he was asked what one thing he dislikes in actors nowadays and he said that the inability to speak "shuddho Bangla" in public. He emphasized the fact that they as actors have a personal duty to speak it because they are the ones who are emphasizing on proper diction be it for the sake of acting....but if actors do not maintain this diction then what message will they leave to their fans....it's the habit of speaking "shuddho Bangla" that will attract the fans to speak it more often!

[Rifat]

Originally Posted by zinatf
You know what Sohel Bhai, this reminded me of Humayun Faridi's interview at PA, which I read some years ago. There he was asked what one thing he dislikes in actors nowadays and he said that the inability to speak "shuddho Bangla" in public. He emphasized the fact that they as actors have a personal duty to speak it because they are the ones who are emphasizing on proper diction be it for the sake of acting....but if actors do not maintain this diction then what message will they leave to their fans....it's the habit of speaking "shuddho Bangla" that will attract the fans to speak it more often!

I remember back in the day, 12-14 years ago when i used to live in Bangladesh, Alhamdulillah! in majority of the natoks they used to speak very very fluent Pure Bangla. I believe "69" was amongst the first natok that was meant to appeal to the younger generation which started using "slang bangla/ what people speak at home" in TV. It was really a new thing at that time, like a revolution which made "69" even more popular. I guess that's where the trend began and Bangladesh never looked back...

[Zunaid]

If the dramas are to reflect real life, they should reflect real life. Nothing wrong with the drama - perhaps something wrong with real life?

[Sohel]

I. Shundaur Bangla (SB)

SB/Bangladesh: Narikel, Shupari.
SB/West Bengal: Narkol, Shupuri.

II. Bisri Bangla (BB)

BB/Bangladesh: Hoise, G'ese
BB/West Bengal: Hoyche, G'yache

The differences have grown quite a bit since 1947 and now with the totalizing power of Bollywood, will grow even more until various formats of the two dialects become as distinct as Russian and Ukranian.

[Sohel]

Originally Posted by Antora
Also, I think our tv journalists and politicians should really learn to speak shuddho Bangla. Watching BD news sometimes gets annoying when journalists start reporting in their own dialect, it's the media for crying out loud! In a way, it makes them appear to be less professional...just IMHO

+1 to that. Yesterday the honorable President of Bangladesh emphasized the importance of proper Bangla (in terms of pronounciatio, Banglish and nowadays Bandi usage etc) in the media while inaugurating G-TV here in Dhaka. Sadly, he made most of the speech in Bisri Bangla "uissaron"

Here's how I feel:

1. Bangla Medium polapain DJuicing Bangla in public to appear stylish (Radio Foorti etc): ANNOYING.

2. English Medium poplapain born and raised in this country taking pride in not being able to speak, read or write Bangla as well as English: THAPPOR'H.

3. A(n)tel types deliberately speaking BB to appear anti-Rabindrik (read anti-Hindu) egalitarian: LATTHI-JUTA.

[Zunaid]

Speaking of 2 - when we returned to Bangladesh during my high-school era - my Bangla had suffered woefully and I was behind my peers. Yes, I did then go to an English medium school but we also engaged a proper byakorn tirtho tutor who taught us (my brother and I) the fundamentals of Bangla and its grammar (tying it to its Sanskritik root - so we understood the etymology and what not). Whilw my fellow classmates ended up taking "easy-Bangla" in college I breezed through 'normal' Bangla. I must admit, though, my handwriting in Bangla is atrocious. While my vocabulary is at graduate level - my handwriting probably still remains at class 6 level. The point of this story? My lathi-thappor to those who feel superior because they do not speak Bangla (when they have no valid reasons not to).

[F6_Turbo]

It's weird, you see 2nd gen Bangladeshi immigrants taking pride in our culture and heritage(noticeable push to highlight our language and how it is different from Hindi or Urdu etc), yet as others have pointed out kids who have never set foot outside Bangladesh trying their damnest to sound like a non native

I would generalize and say things like new money...no class...but that's not right either. This seems to be infecting all groups up and down the social ladder

[dash]

I wish most people in Bangladesh are able to speak a version of proper bangla.... But sometimes change happens for better but often to become worse...but evolution is inevitable..

[Sohel]

Originally Posted by F6_Turbo
It's weird, you see 2nd gen Bangladeshi immigrants taking pride in our culture and heritage(noticeable push to highlight our language and how it is different from Hindi or Urdu etc), yet as others have pointed out kids who have never set foot outside Bangladesh trying their damnest to sound like a non native

I would generalize and say things like new money...no class...but that's not right either. This seems to be infecting all groups up and down the social ladder

You're absolutely right about that. My little Hip-Hoppin' nephews and nieces, some of them biracial (African, Irish, Jewish, Latino and Japanese Americans) born and being raised in NYC, Michigan, Illinois and California are incredibly gung-ho about Bangladesh and eager to find their roots here. One of them, a 12YO Californian, visits this site to read some of my posts and corrected me today on a proper pronunciation (ShundAUr versus ShubdOr) before I told him both sound equally good here, just like KOrbar and KAUrbar.

I totally expect the stereotypical "Garmentswalar polapain" sent to English Medium schools and businesses masquerading as schools as part of "jate o't'ha", to behave in certain ways because they haven't seen any better. But when kids from traditionally educated and cultured families start behaving the same way with callous disregard and disrespect for who we are, it makes me profoundly sad.

Luckily these little @$$clowns are a miniscule part of Bangladeshi youth. While most may not be able to speak proper Bangla in public, they know it exists and they try.

[Zunaid]

What is wrong with the 'garment walla' and other so called nouveau riche acting the way they do? Perhaps the old ways have gone with the last century. Don't you think some of them achieved what they did by the dint of their abilities? Or are we still a very classist society. Oh, I know the answer to that one.

I'm part of the old poor - the old middle class - which, of course, is still filthy rich compared to the remaining 99% of Bangladeshis. Even if we can distinguish between the three 'shaws'. Yeah, I'm rambling.

[Sohel]

The "old ways" marked by pride in education-etiquette(Adab)-cultivation of virtue(Akhlaq or Quaeda), rather than flaunting wealth and ignorance in the most vulgar and arrogant ways possible, still thrive in most small towns outside Dhaka and thank GOD for that.

I don't respect robber barons just because they've made a truckload of money with "hard work" . On the other hand, I am deeply humbled by impoverished school teachers everywhere trying to teach people about "Adob-Kaeda" and other responsibilities of being wealthy.

[simon]

interesting thread,interesting alochona.

According to me, I kinda like both, I mean I feel that both shuddho oshuddho got a place in our society.
For exmp, there is some sort of beauty in oshuddho bangla like khaisi ,gesi ,korsi specially when you are in family ,with friends having a light/informal convo, mostly dushtomi type, the best way to express is most probably the oshuddho one imo.
Which is why Faruki and his brothers started this type of bangla & honestly speaking most of their natoks(51 borti , 69) are funny type and with a proper bangla it wouldn't sound that funny.
But having said that I don't like the excessive use of bhejal bangla in their natoks trying to sound cool ( I share the same opinion as Mlle Oronnya )

Now the use of shuddho Bangla is acceptable in almost everywhere in our society, but there are places where you don't necessarily need to talk like that, I mean we are not from kolkata , oshuddho bangla is a part of our daily life(I personally find it odd to say kheyechi -korechi with my family & friends )
but there are places (or professions) where shuddho bangla is mandatory, like Antora mentioned about journalists,also about politicians , media persons, cricketers in front of the media should try to speak as shuddho as they can.

Anyway,the most annoying is Banglish.

[Zunaid]

Amen brother. I'm with you. And I come from a family loaded with school teachers.

Heck even I taught. Might return.

[mufi_02]

খাইসে. ফাট্টাফাটি একটা থ্রেড খুইলা ফালাইসেন দেখা যাই মামুরা. আলোচনা ভালই জইমা গেসে

Well, this is how I talk to my friends and maybe with my older brothers. But in formal family events or dawats, we do switch coding and try to talk in shundor Bangla. But those formal events are rare and most of my Bangla speaking are with friends and close family members. As a result, I am slowly forgetting the shundor tone.

My dad's side speaks in pure mymensingh accent (close to gafargaon accent you hear in H Ahmed's natok) and mom side in Munshiganj dialects. So at home, we were confused and spoke in Dhakaiya accent (not the kutti). But I do love mymensingh accent. It has a funny to it.

[zsayeed]

I had to repost this. I think Bijoy (even though I am not sure who that is, not familiar with nicks) speaks the nodia bengali?
English translation: "A man had two sons."
Bangla Shadhubhasha: "Êk puruṣêr duṭi putrô chhilô."
West Central dialects: These dialect are mostly spoken in and around the Bhagirathi River basin, in West Central Bengal. The standard form of the colloquial language (Choltibhasha) has developed out of the Nadia dialect.
Nadia/Choltibhasha Standard: Êk jon loker duţi chhele chhilo.
Bangali dialects, including Eastern and Southeastern Bengali dialects: The Eastern dialects serve as the primary colloquial language of the Dhaka district. They do not have contrastive nasalized vowels or a distinction in approximant র /ɹ/ and flap ড়/ঢ় /ɽ/, pronouncing them all as র /ɹ/. This is also true of the Sylheti dialect, which has been influenced by Assamese, and is often considered a separate language. The Eastern dialects extend into Southeastern dialects, which include parts of Chittagong. Chittagongian dialect and Chakma dialect are heavily influenced by the neighboring Tibeto-Burman languages, and are also typically considered separate languages from Bengali.
Manikganj: Êk zoner duiđi saoal asilo.
Mymensingh: Êk zôner dui put asil.
Munshiganj (Bikrampur): Êk jôner duiđa pola asilo.
Comilla: Êk bêđar dui put asil.
Noakhali (Sandwip): Êk shôksher dui beţa asilo.
Noakhali (Feni): Êk zôner dui hola asil.
Noakhali (Hatia): Êk zôn mainsher duga hola asil.
Noakhali (Ramganj): Ek zôner dui hut asil.
Barisal (Bakerganj): Êk zôn mansher dugga pola asil.
Faridpur: Kero mansher duga pola asil.
Sylhet: Ekh beṭar dui phut/phua asil/aslo.
Chittagong: Egua mansher dua poa asil.
South Bengal dialects:
Chuadanga : Êk jon lokir duiţo chheile chhilo.
Khulna: Êk zon manshir dui sôoal silo.
Jessore: Êk zoner duţ sôl sêl.
North Bengal dialects: This dialect is mainly spoken in the districts of North Bengal. These are the only dialects in Bangladesh that pronounce the letters চ, ছ, জ, and ঝ as affricates [tʃ], [tʃʰ], [dʒ], and [dʒʱ], respectively, and preserve the breathy-voiced stops in all parts of the word, much like Western dialects (including Standard Bengali). The dialects of Rangpur and Pabna do not have contrastive nasalized vowels.
Dinajpur: Êk manusher dui chhaoa chhilô
Pabna: Kono mansher dui chhaoal chhilô.
Bogra: Êk jhôner dui bêţa chhoil achhilô.
East Malda: Êk jhôn manuser duţa bêţa achhlô.
Rangpur: Êk zon mansher duikna bêţa asil.
Western Border dialects: This dialect is spoken in the area which is known as Manbhum.
Manbhum: Ek loker duţa beţa chhilô.
Kharia Thar and Mal Paharia are closely related to Western Bengali dialects, but are typically classified as separate languages. Similarly, Rajbangsi and Hajong are considered separate languages, although they are very similar to North Bengali dialects. There are many more minor dialects as well, including those spoken in the bordering districts of Purnea and Singhbhum and among the tribals of the eastern Bangladesh like the Hajong and the Chakma.
Hajong: Ek zôn manôlôg duida pôla thakibar.
Chakma: Ek jônôtun diba poa el.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bengali_dialects

[MohammedC]

Anamul @ .50 of first and 2.20 @ second video. Please don't forget to like and share the video.

[nadim 98]

shundor thread. Wish I could spk shundor bangla fluently but unfortunately, I can't.

Parbo kibabe, at age of 4, I moved to Marrisha(beyound Rangamati), lived there for 5 yrs, then went to Teknaf(close to tetulia) and stayed there for 2 yrs and then went to Jaipurhat to live another 2 yrs. let me tell you, shundor bangla to durer kotha, bangla'i bhujben na ora jodi APnar sathe kotha bole. For me that was like living in 3 different country with 3 different languages

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[MohammedC]

^^^ nadim ekhon kutay thako? Sylhette ?

Hahaha

[nadim 98]

I would have consider London as sylhet if I was living in the East

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[Banglatiger84]

The West Bengal shuddho Bangla does have similarities with our Shuddho, but there are some noticeable differences as well:

one is the tone they speak, or at least seem to speak formally/in tv, hard to describe in words

Another is the overuse of words like Boddo, Jol, adda; or maybe its just the tv shows

I would really want to see how they swear, or speak when excited,do they pronounce every swear word completely ?

[BANFAN]

Originally Posted by Banglatiger84
The West Bengal shuddho Bangla does have similarities with our Shuddho, but there are some noticeable differences as well:

one is the tone they speak, or at least seem to speak formally/in tv, hard to describe in words

Another is the overuse of words like Boddo, Jol, adda; or maybe its just the tv shows

I would really want to see how they swear, or speak when excited,do they pronounce every swear word completely ?

Ami bhogobaner dibbi kore bolchi dada....
Their swear words are completely different language than ours... They infact don't have many ... So they borrow Hindi swear words and mix it with Bangla... Other than some nikuchi ..kind of durbodhyo words...and there are some that can't be said here... I spent a lot of time in Kolkata between 97-2003...

[Navo]

^^ My west bengali friend has the filthiest mouth - he uses numerous bangla-hindi-english expletives regularly.

[Navo]

This thread also ties in with the recent controversy surrounding the injunction against banglish in the media. I suppose most people in this thread are for such a move?