Match Thread: Zimbabwe Twenty20 Triangular Series: Bangladesh v South Africa Tue Jun 19 13:00 local | 11:00 GMT 07:00 EDT | 06:00 CDT | 04:00 PDT

[Zeeshan]

Is Duminy's 7 ball 23 one of the highest SR above 20 albeit unofficial?

[Zeeshan]

Tread softly, for here lies the immortals.

One wonders if a similar quote can be found as one enters the pantheon of the game where resides the sages of the game with ODI career runs above 10,000.

Source

Jamie Siddons used to say that Bangladesh National Team does not have match winners. Whether it was an excuse or not, the point remains that the team's #1 individual with highest career runs is actually the lower of the tier.

Source

Shakib-al-Hasan, although may have enjoyed the #1 ODI all-rounder spot, will not even sniff near the top-tiered players. And who else is the squad besides the next, run-getter Tamim Iqbal, an inconsistent Ashraful and Mushfiqur with a meagre 2000+ runs.

While players like Sachin and Jayasuria have been playing for 20 years, for the Bangladeshi players to reach the top of the totem-pole, would realistically require that much time even if the players like Mushfiqur and Shakib were to play for 10 matches a year, scoring a 50 in each match with an aggregate of 1000 runs a year. These are of course just pulling numbers out of thin air, but it does help to put things into perspective.

Sachin, Ponting, Jaya, Kallis, Ganguly et al. have already reached the point where they have trained their muscle memory and reflexes to process a move automatically for the optimum shot. They have seen all the in's-and-out's of the game, and just like the adage goes in chess, "To the beginner's mind there are many options, but to the master, few." These are few, but the best possible moves.

Yes, experience matters a lot.

And even if experience does not speak volumes, it has to be the way these prodigies moved up the ranks. They have scored enough 50s and 100s, that just like yesterday's match where Amla (who by no means at the top of the tier), an 88 odd runs does not seem too unusual off the norm, while for a BD player, a 50 tends to be a gift.

It's no wonder, Sachin being at the top of the tier, holds also the record for second-highest ODI score of 200* runs. His teammate Sehwag also spoke of maturity that comes after 10 years of play the game.

Right now, Shakib and Tamim has 3000+ runs each. You cannot possibly expect a team with only 2 major players to form the inner core, while at the same time wishing that they will pile drive the opponent. That's just pure wishful thinking. Numbers don't lie, and according to numerical conspiracies, a neutral fan has every right to predict that a team consisting of players with 8000 or more runs will come up as the better one on any given day.

These are really common sense stat-interpretation. Yet, so often we emotional Bangladeshi fans wish that we will taste yet another miracle where the Tigers just cruise through a series earning every accolades imaginable. Such is and will not be the case.

And yes, naively by the time the team progresses to the level where almost five or six players are equipped with plenitude of runs, the rest of the world will also catch up. Sure, Bangladesh may have had a slow start being a relatively new team, but the fact of the matter is it will be another 10-12 years where our players reach the level of mastery to dominate series and bring home the World Cup.

EDIT: I must say the list of the highest ODI run-getters consists of retired players mostly. So I may have conflated the akaash-patal description.

[Kohli_Sox]

Originally Posted by Zeeshan
Sure, Bangladesh may have had a slow start being a relatively new team, but the fact of the matter is it will be another 10-12 years where our players reach the level of mastery to dominate series and bring home the World Cup.

Yes only if they stick with this set of players. But given the trend when even a little bit of bad form hits, the outcries of dropping someone gets to the point of such extravaganza that it's hard to imagine that we can say confidently we'll see this same set of players after 10-12 years. We can't look for solutions to resurrect the current situation only but rather where we'll stand after many such years. Long term plans can only be beneficial.

[Navo]

Originally Posted by Zeeshan
While players like Sachin and Jayasuria have been playing for 20 years, for the Bangladeshi players to reach the top of the totem-pole, would realistically require that much time even if the players like Mushfiqur and Shakib were to play for 10 matches a year, scoring a 50 in each match with an aggregate of 1000 runs a year. These are of course just pulling numbers out of thin air, but it does help to put things into perspective.

As (effectively) a Tier 2 side, it is difficult to draw comparisons between our performance and those of Tier 1 sides. Our dearth of test matches and T20s aside, we don't even get as many ODIs as G8 teams do. Therefore, none of our players, even Ash who debuted at 16 and will probably play well into his 30s, will get to play 350+ ODIs like Tendulkar et al. (And I say this factoring in the increasing success of the BD ODI side and the ability of the cricket board to afford more matches.) Thus, we will always be lagging behind in total run aggregate. I, however, do believe that Shakib, Tamim and Mushy have the ability to cross 8000 ODI runs before they respectively retire, given their respective ages and ability to score consistently (I say that about Mushy from late last year on-wards)

In terms of experience being of importance, I think it's necessary to take into consideration the experience of playing at a particular ground as well. While Tendulkar or Ponting or Jayasuriya might have the most experience overall, they do not have the most experience of playing in Mirpur (for instance) - Shakib does. That is also indicated by his run aggregate on that ground. His relative experience at that ground can often outweigh the total experience of other players. The same can be said for Jayawardane in a couple of grounds in Sri Lanka and Jayasuriya in Sharjah.

[TigerEz]

should i open the next thread or someone else got it?

[Zeeshan]

Originally Posted by TigerEz
should i open the next thread or someone else got it?

Wait a bit and go for it. What are you waiting for? Did Jafar deter you? :p

I already got today's match covered.

[TigerEz]

If nobody opens BD vs Zim by 2pm tommorrow then i guess i'll have to do it

[BANFAN]

Originally Posted by Navo
As (effectively) a Tier 2 side, it is difficult to draw comparisons between our performance and those of Tier 1 .....

what's that Tier 1/2? Has it been officially declared?? . I don't want to see tier system and i think we shouldn't use it until it's officially declared...I don't thnk it will ever be..

[Navo]

Originally Posted by BANFAN
what's that Tier 1/2? Has it been officially declared?? . I don't want to see tier system and i think we shouldn't use it until it's officially declared...I don't thnk it will ever be..

It's not been officially declared but the reason why I use the term is because it de facto exists already. Just look at the teams we regularly play: Zimbabwe, NZ and West Indies. Would they not be, along with Ireland, Afghanistan and Namibia, the teams that form the 2nd tier anyway? In addition, look at the number of matches we play. Is it anywhere comparable to the top teams?

Two tiers exist already and by not acknowledging it formally, the ICC can continue with the charade that we are 'full' members.

[BANFAN]

Ya I know it exists, but we still have an opportunity to play the top teams if we perform. Like NZ, WI ... but if we accept it like this, I'm sure it will be made official and that makes life difficult for us. I don't say that if you use it once it will begone official, but if a large fan base of Bangladesh like BC gets used to such terms...it will only encourage people...to make it official...we can use other terms like top 4 ranked etc... I feel very uncomfortable with such confident use of tier....words

It's very logical that top 4/5 teams play within them more often and the other teams within them.. With occasional matches between each other...even if we don't look at it with the prism of tier..