Coaches that KILL!!

betaar · #1 April 19, 2013, 05:58 AM

There have been instances in the international circuit where coaches were known to kill the career of players such as Greg Chappell killing Irfan Pathan's. For Bangladesh there are a few as well but the one that comes to mind is the current coach, SJ, killing Mahmudullah Riyadh's (by moving him up the order). I understand in the end the lack of technique, namely footwork, from Riyadh's part but why change something that was working well for a while for Riyadh and Bangladesh.

Time and time again Mahmudullas showed he's at his best playing with the tail even in losing cause that our team often finds it self. If his batting stat at #8 are any indication of his success then why move him up the order and set him up for failure? Why fix something that was not broken?

Anyways, don't want to turn this into another Riyadh thread but rather who else do you think has been a victim of a coach in Bangladesh team?

Habib · #2 April 19, 2013, 06:39 AM

The selectors are killing the players, not the coach. Riyad shouldn't have played in the first place. Mominul should have been picked ahead of him. BTW, the coach is quite incompetent himself.

jeesh · #3 April 19, 2013, 06:49 AM

Was wondering when the Shane Jurgensen bashing will start. Still long way to go, but what will the boards stance towards SJ if we are beaten again in Zimbabwe.

While i appreciate the work done by SJ, this is also a fear i had-does Bangladesh need a soft motivator, or should we have a rigid task master. Shane's friendly approach may have built good team spirit, but judging from this performance we are suffering from hubris and complacency. It happens quite often particularly when taking on teams ranked lower than us. Tendency of throwing away wickets, playing irresponsible shots, not having the ability to fight back, losing 9 wickets for 30-40 runs. Is this sth Shane Jurgensen can resolve?

Or should we start looking for a rigid task master coach not afraid to give players the hair dryer treatment. Impressed with Zimbabwe's interim coach Stephen Mangongo who is known to be very tough and strict. You could see his annoyed face when the Zimbabwean bowlers were bowling wayward, and he got so worked up at times he was constantly sending messengers. And i bet whatever he planned this morning it worked.

Still not giving up on SJ, but sometimes u need a bit of a tough dictator for players who lack the self motivation and who need be kept under constant pressure to perform

*AsifTheManRahman* · #4 April 19, 2013, 09:49 AM

SJ isn't killing Riyad. Riyad should bat up or go home. No point playing a batsman at #8.

M.H.Rubel · #5 April 19, 2013, 09:54 AM

Whats the message from this thread? Riyad should bat at #8 through out his life and lose all the matches for us?

Night_wolf · #6 April 19, 2013, 10:25 AM

so he should play at 8 as a genuine batsman for the rest of his cricketing years?...bat well at the top or get lost

BD_TigerZ · #7 April 19, 2013, 10:37 AM

The guys above took the words from my mouth..we dont need a sissy at 8 hiding and getting 40s in a losing cause. Heck marshall will do better than him at 4 i say. Utter rubbish and he has a VC tag to to go along with it.

betaar · #8 April 19, 2013, 12:41 PM

I am not saying Riyadh should be included in the team solely to play as a batsman at #7 or 8 but if he's in the team he should remain in that position based on his success rate in late middle order or his failure in the upper middle.

Whether or not BD team has the luxury to play a batsman at #7 solely on his batting merit is a different argument but my point is if he's in the team then play him where he's the most successful. No point trying to get a cat doing a tiger's job.

Looking at the batting order isn't it stupid to have him bat before Shak and Mushy who are clearly superior to him both in terms of technique and temperament? Why jeopardize the whole batting card by trying to make someone what he's not?

Rabz · #9 April 19, 2013, 01:10 PM

No one's killing no one here.
Riyad's just having a lean patch with the bat.

Jadukor · #10 April 19, 2013, 01:13 PM

I read Roaches that kill...
Got to stay off cable tv for awhile

22Yards · #11 April 19, 2013, 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by betaar
I am not saying Riyadh should be included in the team solely to play as a batsman at #7 or 8 but if he's in the team he should remain in that position based on his success rate in late middle order or his failure in the upper middle.

Whether or not BD team has the luxury to play a batsman at #7 solely on his batting merit is a different argument but my point is if he's in the team then play him where he's the most successful. No point trying to get a cat doing a tiger's job.

Looking at the batting order isn't it stupid to have him bat before Shak and Mushy who are clearly superior to him both in terms of technique and temperament? Why jeopardize the whole batting card by trying to make someone what he's not?

So many things wrong with this that I don't know how to start. I guess I have to learn to listen and understand the fact that people might think differently but this is just hard to take in. Can you please define Riyad's role in the national team ? is he a batsman ? a bowler ? a part timer who can bat during crisis and save our a** when a collapse occurs ? I think the last one fits his role. If you go by that definition then you are starting your game with a loosing mentality. And that is not what uprising team such as Bangladesh require as I would like to think.

Just because he plays good at no 8 should not mean the team should sacrifice a bowler, or bowling allrounder's place for his sake. and his 'good' is not really that 'great'. Team needs come first. If you look at this team, he is such an unfit. In ODIs and T20 if you let him come at that low or during power play he cannot fetch you quick runs. He is only there to fill the job of a fifth bowler. In tests he has a real opportunity to step up as a batsman but no he rather hide behind the no 11 batsman if they allow him that. Very few occasion we can pick 4 genuine bowlers that we picked for this test just because him taking up that spot. You need to play four genuine bowler's overseas to get the 10 wickets. Now I know our bowler's are not good and you can make a case out of it.

The truth is SJ is not killing riyad, his own confidence is letting him down. Riyad actually has many things playing for him such as him being the VC so his spot is permanent, in subcontinent we tend to play an extra batsman instead of a bowler, mostly staying away from the radar because he walks in such a time that the fate of the match are decided more often than not. But how long can these hide his incompetence and sheer lack of responsibility ?

Quote:

No point trying to get a cat doing a tiger's job

If he ain't a tiger then he SHOULD not play in the Bangladesh national team XI nicknamed as "Tigers". Oh the irony.

fwullah · #12 April 19, 2013, 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Habib
The selectors are killing the players, not the coach. Riyad shouldn't have played in the first place. Mominul should have been picked ahead of him. BTW, the coach is quite incompetent himself.

don't bother blaming the coach. we can't afford a better coach than him (pybys?)

reyme · #13 April 19, 2013, 02:20 PM

I think the point was play the people where they are most suited. Sure riyad don't deserve a spot but since he was picked anyways, let him play where he would be successful. He should have come at 7 when the ball would lose its shine completely. He is just not that good with newer ball. By sending him at 4 the coach ruined everything. He was completely nervous and out of sorts! Result: he gave it away. End result? Created more pressure on batsmen after him, who tried to counter attack and eventually got out by playing rash shots. It was a dominos effect. Being a coach, first thing you should know what works for your players. That's why Siddons was sending him at 8 in test. And now you know why. Shane is no genius and it shows.

reyme · #14 April 19, 2013, 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Habib
The selectors are killing the players, not the coach. Riyad shouldn't have played in

Well the selectors indeed picked Mominul. It's the coach and captain who left him out from playing 11. I don't know what on earth the coach is thinking leaving out Mominul.

The role of the coach is not listen to what players or captain wants, rather coach and guide them with success through effecting coaching and authority. If players do whatever they want to do then why do we even need a coach. We have fans to cheer up the players anyways!

reyme · #15 April 19, 2013, 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fwullah
don't bother blaming the coach. we can't afford a better coach than him (pybys?)

We can't or we won't? Give the very team to Ian Pont and see the difference. I did not see silly team selection and batting order in Dhaka gladiators. The man who could do wonder was left out for a bowling coach who got fired from NZ after getting whitewashed 0-4 by Tigers. Irony!

King13 · #16 April 19, 2013, 02:40 PM

Sorry to ask... Which Coach has managed to beat Zimbabwe at Zimbabwe being Bangladesh coach in Test Cricket?

Zeeshan · #17 April 19, 2013, 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AsifTheManRahman
SJ isn't killing Riyad. Riyad should bat up or go home. No point playing a batsman at #8.

Mishti apa (as in his wife) ke bolano uchit Riyad ke rannabari, katabasa, dhoya mocha, moshola batar kaaj dite....

and she should come and play cricket for us.

22Yards · #18 April 19, 2013, 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by reyme
I think the point was play the people where they are most suited. Sure riyad don't deserve a spot but since he was picked anyways, let him play where he would be successful. He should have come at 7 when the ball would lose its shine completely. He is just not that good with newer ball. By sending him at 4 the coach ruined everything. He was completely nervous and out of sorts! Result: he gave it away. End result? Created more pressure on batsmen after him, who tried to counter attack and eventually got out by playing rash shots. It was a dominos effect. Being a coach, first thing you should know what works for your players. That's why Siddons was sending him at 8 in test. And now you know why. Shane is no genius and it shows.

I think you can only bump shakib to no 4. No one in the middle order is able enough to play so high up the order. I have my own doubts that Shakib will come good that high consistently. I still think he has a lot of bowling to do in tests, in general not in the context of this game. Mushfiq has the gloves. That leaves Nasir only who is also working at low down the order and you can make the same "if aint broke don't fix it" case on him. So who would you play at 4 if not Riyad ? Sohag Gazi ?
I have a better idea, get mominul for next test, play him at 4, and kick gazi out of the team so prince mahmudullah can play where he is comfortable at. Then the selector's and coach will be called smart and we all will be happy.

BengaliPagol · #19 April 19, 2013, 07:58 PM

It's selectors not coaches... not picking Mominul is blasphemy. He poses as a young and fresh option who performed in the last series. If he didn't perform then i wouldn't mind him being dropped for this series BUT HE PERFORMED. To this people saying that he should wait cos he is young i say that is just killing a player. India didn't leave Tendulkar on the sideline just because he was young and there were older guys in front of him.

Selectors thought process is an intriguing one.

betaar · #20 April 19, 2013, 09:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 22Yards
So many things wrong with this that I don't know how to start. I guess I have to learn to listen and understand the fact that people might think differently but this is just hard to take in. Can you please define Riyad's role in the national team ? is he a batsman ? a bowler ? a part timer who can bat during crisis and save our a** when a collapse occurs ? I think the last one fits his role. If you go by that definition then you are starting your game with a loosing mentality. And that is not what uprising team such as Bangladesh require as I would like to think.

Just because he plays good at no 8 should not mean the team should sacrifice a bowler, or bowling allrounder's place for his sake. and his 'good' is not really that 'great'. Team needs come first. If you look at this team, he is such an unfit. In ODIs and T20 if you let him come at that low or during power play he cannot fetch you quick runs. He is only there to fill the job of a fifth bowler. In tests he has a real opportunity to step up as a batsman but no he rather hide behind the no 11 batsman if they allow him that. Very few occasion we can pick 4 genuine bowlers that we picked for this test just because him taking up that spot. You need to play four genuine bowler's overseas to get the 10 wickets. Now I know our bowler's are not good and you can make a case out of it.

The truth is SJ is not killing riyad, his own confidence is letting him down. Riyad actually has many things playing for him such as him being the VC so his spot is permanent, in subcontinent we tend to play an extra batsman instead of a bowler, mostly staying away from the radar because he walks in such a time that the fate of the match are decided more often than not. But how long can these hide his incompetence and sheer lack of responsibility ?

If he ain't a tiger then he SHOULD not play in the Bangladesh national team XI nicknamed as "Tigers". Oh the irony.

It seems you failed to read my post though you quoted it.

My point is if Riyadh is picked than he should operate in his familiar territory. No point picking a player for a position he's not comfortable in; like picking Momin instead of SN and ask him to open to keep his position in the team. Let's not pick those players at all which is why I believe selectors picked SN not Momin in this test. But selectors could've picked Momin instead of Riyadh but him being a VC and more experienced pushed him ahead of Momin.

I also mentioned whether Riyadh deserves to be in the 11 is a different argument all together and I do believe based on his current form, which is caused by moving him up the order, he's shouldn't be. But my fear is, this lean patch may very well kill his career as a cricketer in all formats, especially as a one-day player (which he's a very important member of).

betaar · #21 April 19, 2013, 09:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by reyme
I think the point was play the people where they are most suited. Sure riyad don't deserve a spot but since he was picked anyways, let him play where he would be successful. He should have come at 7 when the ball would lose its shine completely. He is just not that good with newer ball. By sending him at 4 the coach ruined everything. He was completely nervous and out of sorts! Result: he gave it away. End result? Created more pressure on batsmen after him, who tried to counter attack and eventually got out by playing rash shots. It was a dominos effect. Being a coach, first thing you should know what works for your players. That's why Siddons was sending him at 8 in test. And now you know why. Shane is no genius and it shows.

Thank you at least someone understands.

22Yards · #22 April 19, 2013, 10:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by betaar
It seems you failed to read my post though you quoted it.

My point is if Riyadh is picked than he should operate in his familiar territory. No point picking a player for a position he's not comfortable in; like picking Momin instead of SN and ask him to open to keep his position in the team. Let's not pick those players at all which is why I believe selectors picked SN not Momin in this test. But selectors could've picked Momin instead of Riyadh but him being a VC and more experienced pushed him ahead of Momin.

I also mentioned whether Riyadh deserves to be in the 11 is a different argument all together and I do believe based on his current form, which is caused by moving him up the order, he's shouldn't be. But my fear is, this lean patch may very well kill his career as a cricketer in all formats, especially as a one-day player (which he's a very important member of).

ok my bad sir. I see now.

For this match only shakib could come at 4 to save mullah. But he didn't. Poor fella.

cricbook · #23 April 20, 2013, 01:38 AM

Riad is ok for odi or t20..... Not a test. Hes keeps failing.... We need to u understand basic... Riad its just a joker.. Whenever he like he play... Hes not nasir.... Hes mula.

firstlane · #24 April 20, 2013, 02:17 AM

We can blame selectors and coaches as much as we want but the truth is this is currently our best team baring one or two positions. I have never witnessed a team selection in any country without controversy. Also injuries always keep 1/2 top players out of the team. But that doesn't/shouldn't make a huge difference in team's overall performance. We have been playing test cricket for 13 years now. Our replacements should posses at least a minimum quality. I have never been a big fan of M'ullah but the fact is there is no guarantee that Mominul would do any better than him if given opportunity. Mominul scored few good knocks in SL and so did Ash, Mush and Nas. But none of them did anything significant in this test. Consistency still remains a worry for us and will be a worry for a foreseeable future unless we can significantly improve our total cricket starting from the root level.

SS · #25 April 20, 2013, 02:21 AM

I still believe a long term good coach can make the difference...just read the article in cricinfo about Streak's influence on the pace attack of Zimb...Streak was a class player and also his guidance and coaching creating 7 pacers options for Zimb before this series...and we all know andrew flower's influence in coaching...BCB really need to think about getting a good bowling and also batting coaches..