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  #1  
Old July 22, 2012, 12:13 AM
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Default Is Tamim-Ash our solution to effective T20 openers yet?

I think yes. Stick with it through ICC T20 tournament. (Highest was Ash's stand 100ish with AFtab)
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  #2  
Old July 22, 2012, 12:20 AM
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NO

I think the issue is that far too many dot balls and lack of intent on making full toll of the powerplay overs

Both batsman need to hit over the infield, and for reference look at masakadza in the Tri series.
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  #3  
Old July 22, 2012, 12:21 AM
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I don't know how serious you are, but yes, I think the signs so far are good. Stick to Tamim-Ash for the T20 WC and beyond. Tamim seems the weaker link, but maybe he's warming up to it now.

ODIs are a different beast, but we can see when the next ODI comes. There is a musical chair going on between Junaid, Jahurul, Imrul and Anamul going on in the selectors' mind for no.2 and 3. That needs to be solved. Maybe Ash and Anamul, maybe some other combo.

But for T20:
Motin bhai ageiye cholo,
amra achi tomar shathe.
Dui Bangar Golapjan,
Ashraful mugor olankar...
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  #4  
Old July 22, 2012, 12:28 AM
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Partnership list
Mohammad Ashraful, Tamim Iqbal 1 62 9.2 6.64 - 1/62 2
v Ireland Belfast 21 Jul 2012
Nazimuddin, Tamim Iqbal 1 41 5.4 7.23 - 1/41 2
v Pakistan Karachi 20 Apr 2008
Nazimuddin, Tamim Iqbal 1 40 7.0 5.71 - 1/40 1
v Australia Cape Town 16 Sep 2007
Mohammad Ashraful, Tamim Iqbal 1 35 5.0 7.00 - 1/35 1
v Ireland Belfast 18 Jul 2012
Junaid Siddique, Tamim Iqbal 1 25 3.1 7.89 - 1/25 2
v South Africa Johannesburg 5 Nov 2008
Junaid Siddique, Tamim Iqbal 1 24 2.3 9.60 - 1/24 2
v India Nottingham 6 Jun 2009
Imrul Kayes, Tamim Iqbal 1 23 3.3 6.57 - 1/23 2
v West Indies Dhaka 11 Oct 2011
Nazimuddin, Tamim Iqbal 1 22 3.4 6.00 - 1/22 2
v Kenya Nairobi (Gym) 1 Sep 2007
Nazimuddin, Tamim Iqbal 1 21 2.5 7.41 - 1/21 2
v Pakistan Nairobi (Gym) 2 Sep 2007
Mohammad Ashraful, Tamim Iqbal 1 18 2.3 7.20 - 1/18 1
v New Zealand Hamilton 3 Feb 2010
Junaid Siddique, Tamim Iqbal 1 16 2.5 5.64 - 1/16 1
v Pakistan Cape Town 20 Sep 2007
Junaid Siddique, Tamim Iqbal 1 15 1.2 11.25 - 1/15 1
v Ireland Nottingham 8 Jun 2009
Junaid Siddique, Tamim Iqbal 1 12 1.4 7.20 - 1/12 1
v West Indies Basseterre 2 Aug 2009
Mohammad Ashraful, Tamim Iqbal 1 12 3.3 3.42 - 1/12 1
v Ireland Belfast 20 Jul 2012
Nazimuddin, Tamim Iqbal 1 8 1.1 6.85 - 1/8 1
v South Africa Cape Town 15 Sep 2007
Nazmus Sadat, Shahriar Nafees 1 4 0.3 8.00 - 1/4 1
v Zimbabwe Khulna 28 Nov 2006
Imrul Kayes, Mohammad Ashraful 1 4 1.0 4.00 - 1/4 2
v Australia Bridgetown 5 May 2010
Imrul Kayes, Naeem Islam 1 3 1.4 1.80 - 1/3 2
v Pakistan Dhaka 29 Nov 2011
Nazimuddin, Tamim Iqbal 1 2 1.1 1.71 - 1/2 2
v West Indies Johannesburg 13 Sep 2007
Nazimuddin, Tamim Iqbal 1 1 0.5 1.20 - 1/1 2
v Sri Lanka Johannesburg 18 Sep 2007
Imrul Kayes, Tamim Iqbal 1 1 1.0 1.00 - 1/1 2
v Pakistan Gros Islet 1 May 2010


http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/eng...w;view=innings
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  #5  
Old July 22, 2012, 12:30 AM
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at least on of them needs to play the anchor role while the other one blasts..we cant have two anchor openers in t20 at the same time
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  #6  
Old July 22, 2012, 12:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Night_wolf
at least on of them needs to play the anchor role while the other one blasts..we cant have two anchor openers in t20 at the same time
True. I would say leave Ashraful as the anchor (since he is doing a decent job at it now) and let Tamim unleash. Make use of the powerplay overs.

And btw i think TamimAsh are our opening solution to T20s.
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  #7  
Old July 22, 2012, 12:36 AM
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In theory, yes. Provided (when either setting a target or chasing a big one, say 160+):

1) Both try to take advantage of the powerplay by trying to clear the ring with high percentage, well selected, non-premeditated shots. Possible because both sight quality deliveries extremely well and early. Try to rotate strike and find gaps if the bowling's that great. If none is available, focus on proper NOT jumpy, premeditated or downright awkward defense, and survive the spells by getting your eye-in and patiently waiting for good opportunities.

2) Both try to consolidate their respective innings through well executed strike rotation, and putting the loose deliveries away safely after the aforesaid powerplay, if their partnership manages to survive those overs.

3) Both switch gears if and when required by the match situation at hand. If one is playing a sheet-anchor, he must up the ante if his partner's getting bogged down and vice versa.

In other words, they need to be flexible while playing each ball according to its merit within the context of the match, rather than trying to execute a premeditated and stringent plan rendered increasingly implausible by what's actually happening in the middle.
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  #8  
Old July 22, 2012, 12:44 AM
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Just to let you all know it's our highest opening stand ever (1st wicket). A record today! :
Quote:
Overall figures
1 7 2006-2012 21 0 389 62 18.52 61.5 6.29 0 1
2 12 2006-2012 21 0 560 63 26.66 65.0 8.61 0 3
3 13 2006-2012 21 0 402 109 19.14 49.5 8.06 1 1
4 15 2006-2012 21 0 247 31 11.76 36.2 6.79 0 0
5 20 2006-2012 21 1 307 48 15.35 47.5 6.41 0 0
6 14 2006-2012 20 2 264 36* 14.66 41.2 6.38 0 0
7 15 2006-2012 18 1 253 48 14.88 39.0 6.48 0 0
8 14 2006-2012 17 3 198 33 14.14 28.2 6.98 0 0
9 10 2006-2012 14 5 89 20* 9.88 14.4 6.06 0 0
10 8 2006-2011 9 2 72 16* 10.28 12.2 5.83 0 0
http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/eng...sults;type=fow
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  #9  
Old July 22, 2012, 12:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sohel NR
In theory, yes. Provided (when either setting a target or chasing a big one, say 160+):

1) Both try to take advantage of the powerplay by trying to clear the ring with high percentage, well selected, non-premeditated shots. Possible because both sight quality deliveries extremely well and early. Try to rotate strike and try to gaps if the bowling's that great. If none is available, focus on proper, not jumpy, premeditated or downright awkward defense and survive the spells by getting your eye-in and patiently waiting for good opportunities.

2) Both try to consolidate their respective innings through well executed strike rotation, and putting the loose deliveries away safely after the aforesaid powerplay, if their partnership manages to survive those overs.

3) Both switch gears if and when required by the match situation at hand. If one is playing a sheet-anchor, he must up the ante if his partner's getting bogged down and vice versa.

In other words, they need to be flexible while playing each ball according to its merit within the context of the match, rather than trying to execute a premeditated and stringent plan rendered increasingly implausible by what's actually happening in the middle.
Great readable analysis.
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  #10  
Old July 22, 2012, 01:04 AM
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Yes, Ash-Tamim combo seems to be working for us.
They have been assuring in the past couple of series and more importantly, giving us a good solid start up the top which the later batsmen could exploit and pile up runs.
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  #11  
Old July 22, 2012, 01:51 AM
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Not yet convinced. Too many dot deliveries during powerplay overs is the main concern. We haven't seen a flying start from them which may be required in high scoring chases. Ireland allowed us to get back into games but the stronger teams will press us on the mat if we start off with 3-4 runs per over in a t-20. Lets see how they go in the remaining matches in europe.
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  #12  
Old July 22, 2012, 02:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jadukor
Not yet convinced. Too many dot deliveries during powerplay overs is the main concern. We haven't seen a flying start from them which may be required in high scoring chases. Ireland allowed us to get back into games but the stronger teams will press us on the mat if we start off with 3-4 runs per over in a t-20. Lets see how they go in the remaining matches in europe.
Who would you (and others) would rather open with? Chaos?
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  #13  
Old July 22, 2012, 02:33 AM
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Yes.. We should continue this combination
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  #14  
Old July 22, 2012, 02:35 AM
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I like the left right combination so i would try Junaid for a couple of games. I am not his biggest fan but Junaid seems to time the ball well from the begining. He has an average of 26 and strikes it at nearly 160
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  #15  
Old July 22, 2012, 03:20 AM
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Although Ash started the collapse, so far so good, but they need to move the score when boundaries are not coming. On four and 4 singles every over will get you 160.
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  #16  
Old July 22, 2012, 03:47 AM
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I don't think so. Have you seen Tamim's T20 record. It took him 18 tries to get his highest score. It won't fly against better teams. We should have gave zunaed a game or two. Doesn't hurt to try out your options.
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  #17  
Old July 22, 2012, 04:12 AM
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They take atleast 2 overs to settle in, as witnessed in this series where there were far too many dot balls in the first couple of overs. Though they then accelerate it well, albeit Ash's sr could be higher.
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  #18  
Old July 22, 2012, 04:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jadukor
I like the left right combination so i would try Junaid for a couple of games. I am not his biggest fan but Junaid seems to time the ball well from the begining. He has an average of 26 and strikes it at nearly 160
Junaid's a lefty, so I assume you're talking about benching Tamim. Not sure how wise that would be considering:

1. He's our best, most consistent opener by a mile. He's significantly better than any other opener in our history, on the current bench or in the pipeline. Tamim at his best is better than others at their best, period.

2. He hasn't played many T20 matches on account of his National Team duties. He was kept on the bench during the BPL as well as the IPL. Therefore, these practice matches are a good way for him to find his rhythm in this format. If the last match is an indication, I'd like to think he's beginning to find it.

I wouldn't bench him to try Junaid, Imrul or any other lefty to open for us.

I am somewhat skeptical about Ashraful but don't feel anyone will do sustainably better under the circumstances. I'd also like to see if Coach Pybus can get him to play right the way Ian Pont somewhat managed as Head Coach of DG. Again, if the last match is any indication, I'd like to think he's beginning to respond positively to Pybus.

Here's my detailed assessment from another thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sohel NR
One doesn't need to be rocket scientist to understand what has been Mtin's strategy of late. He's being overly cautious not to throw away his wicket before scoring a certain number of runs, my guess is 30+ in all formats. He must think he has the confidence in his ability to accelerate later, and make up for the lowish SR brought upon by his tentative approach. Sadly, we have yet to see him actually accelerate when required by the match situation. Instead we see him blowing power plays, perhaps because he's scared ****less playing lofted shots over the ring for good reason, and creating added pressure on his partners with disastrous results.

A sheet-anchor is acutely aware of the match situation and rotates the strike accordingly while putting the bad delivery away. Tamim wasn't connecting jack yesterday. The commentary suggested quite a few swing-and-misses. Yet Mtin didn't seem to try and alter his predetermined gameplan at all, and played his part in wasting a powerplay. Shakib and others tried to compensate by playing low percentage shots and got out. He also may have run someone out during his innings.

A sheet-anchor plays for his team first, not to preserve his troubled career at the highest level at the expense of his team. Nasir was the real sheet-anchor yesterday and accelerated when needed. He will hit out or get out when the time comes. Not wait to accelerate and then die waiting. That kind of overly cautious approach will give Mtin 180 extra balls to wait-on in ODIs, but this is T20I.

Anyway, he has been putting runs on the board and I'm sure Coach Pybus has briefed him on what needs to be done differently for this briefest of formats with unique challenges and rhythms. Let us see if he delivers. I don't think the usual suspects will do any better than him. I don't think they can edge their way through the powerplay on more than just a few occasions. We need fresh blood here, and when they do get a shot, they must make 'em count.
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Last edited by Sohel; July 22, 2012 at 05:00 AM..
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  #19  
Old July 22, 2012, 04:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ajfar
I don't think so. Have you seen Tamim's T20 record. It took him 18 tries to get his highest score. It won't fly against better teams. We should have gave zunaed a game or two. Doesn't hurt to try out your options.
what about mr. Matin who score at 80-90s/r.
I want to replace junaid with mr.matin.
Tamim deserves hundred time more chance than mr.matin who get so many chance.

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  #20  
Old July 22, 2012, 05:41 AM
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No. I'm especially concerned about Tamim, what happened to him? Ideally I would prefer Jahirul to open, he can't do worse. Play Jahurul instead of Ash/Tamim in all the remaining matches.
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  #21  
Old July 22, 2012, 05:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sohel NR
Junaid's a lefty, so I assume you're talking about benching Tamim. Not sure how wise
There is no doubt about Tamim's talent or that he is our best opener. I wouldn't suggest trying anyone else if it was a Test match or an ODI, however T-20 is a different beast where a lot of successful and accomplished players have struggled to adapt. I just fear that Tamim's game simply might not be effective in this format just like Michael Clarke, Ponting, Ganguly etc.

Tamim has had 18 international outings with a poor average of 15 runs per innings and a strike rate of 92. His highest score in 18 chances was the 39 scored in the last game against an Irish attack. If we look at his T20 record apart from the international level then he has played 32 innings with a slightly better average of 20 but again with a poor strike rate of 105.35.

The stats simply show that Tamim even at his best might only be good enough for a sheet anchor role and not much else in the T-20 format.

Junaid while technically far more inferior to Tamim, has the gift of striking the ball cleanly from ball one and get the boundaries. I believe he could certainly give us the rapid start that we have been missing during the power plays.

One might argue Ash has played safe to keep his place during the last two series but there is no doubt about him having the range of strokes required to succeed at the T-20 level. His approach right now is negative but that could be changed by Pybus to be more like the attitude of BPL. He has played good knocks against the West indian, Sout African and Pakistani attacks in the past and his record is superior to Tamim's.
I think Ashraful is much better at rotating the strike than Tamim and hence would be a better choice in playing the sheet anchors role. Tamim scores lots of boundaries but his strike rate remains poor because he doesn't rotate the strike. I also feel Ash is a better player of spin than tamim (with Hafeez being in our group).

Having said all that... I do acknowledge that we are winning at the moment and trying out a different combination is ONLY suggested as an experiment to see the results and not as a solution.
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  #22  
Old July 22, 2012, 06:16 AM
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Yes they been most successful not to give oposition bowlers a early break, which had been a common concern for BD for long time. btw having alternatives of players like Junaid, Jahurul, Imrul and Anamul makes this 1,2,3 positions bit insecure and creating a healthy compitition among them. But TIK-Ash both of them seems secured there position in Nat squad atm. So I guess now they can play bit according to format's idology, and no more selfish innings will come. We still got a good depth of batting lineup to put some confidence with, so in WC I beleive this peer will fill up the expectation. IMO players would 've got more motivation to play for the best sake of the team, if official WC squad were announced before these preparation series begin.
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  #23  
Old July 22, 2012, 07:07 AM
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Before I get the Tamim lovers all riled up, I am not disputing his talent or record or position in Tests and ODIs.

But here is the concern in T20s.

SR of 92.25 : 125sr by the team gets you a 150 score. If your opener delivers less than 100, think of the pressure that puts on the line up to deliver. Especially if eating up 16.5 balls per match. Thats
15 runs in 3 power play overs. sure you'll have days like the 1st T20 of picking up a larget total but more often than not you'll struggle to 130-140 like the latter two games.

0 6's: 297 balls faced, no sixes.

HS 39 : in 18 matches as an opener !

Dot balls : Take away the 40 4's from the 297 deliveries faced, thats 114 runs in 257 balls !!!! Means lack of singles and rotation of strike. If his shots don't clear, then there is nothing for BD in that shot.

Other things that don't show up on the stats is the pressure put on the opening partner to seek strike and push the scoreboard and in turn everyone else down the order.

I personally think Junaid is well suited for this format and if he can undo the reigning in that has been done of him in the past few years, he can be the explosive start we need at the top.

Since Tamim will get a chance to prove himself at the SLPL, I would want to see Junaid/Ash tried out in the remaining 2 matches.
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  #24  
Old July 22, 2012, 07:25 AM
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I agree with Rayman

I think a SR below will not get your team to a good score and it also puts a lot of pressure on the others.

Most of you are saying: Oh we have batsman who will come in and have a blast. Batsman, what batsman? Its are is if you guys are talking about Dhoni, pollard, russel, morgan, Devilliers. But reality we have shakib, nasir, riad, mushy and this batsman are not batsman who can srsly thrash top quality bowlers so its important that the opening batsman make use of the PPs and make sure that there isnt too much pressure on those coming in.
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  #25  
Old July 22, 2012, 07:31 AM
M.H.Rubel M.H.Rubel is offline
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Well Tamim-Ash combination is so far best from our lot.So i am not thinking about any change.So far this is the most successful opening pair for us.There is right left combination as well. Still i am not happy with this. Tamim is under performed.Ash is shakey and not explosive.Still i am willing to continue this pair in a hope that both will regain confidence and will become explosive .
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