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  #26  
Old August 27, 2012, 02:32 AM
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Congrats Anamul! A top achievement, no doubts. And hopefully a future top order pillar in the Bangladesh team. But just because he scored some runs in the U19 world cup, doesn't mean he is battle hardened yet.
We have seen people boast up Shubhagata Hom, and making him sounds like the next tendulkar. I hope he is not gone forever, but where the hell is he now? People tend to forget that there is a gulf of difference between U19, first class and international cricket. And shoving a 19 year old in the depth of international cricket will do more harm than good.

We have seen so many players, who were supposed to be game changers, come into international level and turn into complete ****. I think Anamul is way too precious to be lost like that, I understand that people are excited with him, and understand the temptation to test him out at the national team. But we have seen him struggle against unknown, second tier international bowlers in Zimbabwe. And he did not look international standard ready yet.

People need to be more patient, as Sanjay Manjrekar recently said, it's better to lose a couple of years than to lose a player. And people are so excited to put him into the national team, I would like to thank you for the tremendous services of Aftab Ahmed, Ashraful, Nafis Iqbal, Mehrab Hossain, Nabil Samad, Shamsur Rahman among several others. We have lost way too many potential players, lets not lose a few more.

Oh another note to all the posters so sure about his skills, how many times have you seen him bat?
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  #27  
Old August 27, 2012, 02:39 AM
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This is definitely something to be proud of.
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  #28  
Old August 27, 2012, 02:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beshideshi
Congrats Anamul! A top achievement, no doubts. And hopefully a future top order pillar in the Bangladesh team. But just because he scored some runs in the U19 world cup, doesn't mean he is battle hardened yet.
We have seen people boast up Shubhagata Hom, and making him sounds like the next tendulkar. I hope he is not gone forever, but where the hell is he now? People tend to forget that there is a gulf of difference between U19, first class and international cricket. And shoving a 19 year old in the depth of international cricket will do more harm than good.

We have seen so many players, who were supposed to be game changers, come into international level and turn into complete ****. I think Anamul is way too precious to be lost like that, I understand that people are excited with him, and understand the temptation to test him out at the national team. But we have seen him struggle against unknown, second tier international bowlers in Zimbabwe. And he did not look international standard ready yet.

People need to be more patient, as Sanjay Manjrekar recently said, it's better to lose a couple of years than to lose a player. And people are so excited to put him into the national team, I would like to thank you for the tremendous services of Aftab Ahmed, Ashraful, Nafis Iqbal, Mehrab Hossain, Nabil Samad, Shamsur Rahman among several others. We have lost way too many potential players, lets not lose a few more.

Oh another note to all the posters so sure about his skills, how many times have you seen him bat?
a couple of those players you mention as lost haven't even played for the national team, maybe made the squad once or twice but haven't played or been in squads regularly at all and now they're in their mid 20s, so those guys were stuck in domestic cricket and look where it's got them? fast tracking all young players certainly isn't a good idea, but there are a select few, some rare talents that are worth fast tracking as long as they have numbers backing them, talent backing them and mentality.

you have to look at each player as an individual case, fast tracking one player might work, but for another it won't.
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  #29  
Old August 27, 2012, 02:53 AM
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I dont see the worry in fast tracking Anamul into the national team tbh. Its the matter of fact of giving him enough games to perform. Tamim, Shakib, Mushfiq, Nasir are all fast tracked and they are all regular members in the team. Anamul could quite possibly join them in the ranks. Just dont put Anamul in the T20 team.
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  #30  
Old August 27, 2012, 03:04 AM
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Originally Posted by BengaliPagol
I dont see the worry in fast tracking Anamul into the national team tbh. Its the matter of fact of giving him enough games to perform. Tamim, Shakib, Mushfiq, Nasir are all fast tracked and they are all regular members in the team. Anamul could quite possibly join them in the ranks. Just dont put Anamul in the T20 team.
so probably in more recent times the players that were fast tracked have become our best players. add rubel to that imo, he was fast tracked and before the injury he had become a really good ODI bowler. i agree about not putting anamul in the t20 team, it's a craze that started when t20s got international status and tbh i don't think it's been that great for any team.
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  #31  
Old August 27, 2012, 03:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gowza
a couple of those players you mention as lost haven't even played for the national team, maybe made the squad once or twice but haven't played or been in squads regularly at all and now they're in their mid 20s, so those guys were stuck in domestic cricket and look where it's got them? fast tracking all young players certainly isn't a good idea, but there are a select few, some rare talents that are worth fast tracking as long as they have numbers backing them, talent backing them and mentality.

you have to look at each player as an individual case, fast tracking one player might work, but for another it won't.
Except Shamsur Rahman[who was part of the squad for 2-3 series], everyone at least played one game. But the thing is, I have seen too many promising players getting lost in the transition. And seeing Anamul in Zimbabwe made me fear he might get lost as well. I want to see him play at least 2-3 more years of A team and FC before playing for the national team[which probably wont happen].

You can see the difference between an experienced guy in the national team[ Elias sunny] and a player fast tracked from U19 level[S. Shuvo]. Both of them are/were of quite similar quality, but as Sunny has a lot more experience, he has a greater chance of survival and Bangladesh can expect at least 6-7 years of service from him.
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  #32  
Old August 27, 2012, 03:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beshideshi
Except Shamsur Rahman[who was part of the squad for 2-3 series], everyone at least played one game. But the thing is, I have seen too many promising players getting lost in the transition. And seeing Anamul in Zimbabwe made me fear he might get lost as well. I want to see him play at least 2-3 more years of A team and FC before playing for the national team[which probably wont happen].

You can see the difference between an experienced guy in the national team[ Elias sunny] and a player fast tracked from U19 level[S. Shuvo]. Both of them are/were of quite similar quality, but as Sunny has a lot more experience, he has a greater chance of survival and Bangladesh can expect at least 6-7 years of service from him.
i don't think nabil has played for the national team...as far as shuvo being fast tracked well he was pretty much the top performing spinner domestically for the last 4 seasons at the time he was selected and if you look at how many matches shuvo and elias have played they've played a very similar amount of list A games, sunny has played quite a few more FC matches but if a player is a top performer for 4 seasons in a row i don't think that's really fast tracking, yes he was young but he was still quite experienced at least for a BD player.

the problem with A team cricket is it isn't organised very often and the problem with domestic cricket is it isn't challenging enough. to develop a good player you need to keep challenging them, keep raising the bar higher, BD domestic cricket isn't at a high enough standard yet to do that unfortunately. so to get that players either have to go abroad (which they rarely do) or they have to be put into the national team.

no one wants to lose a talented player.
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  #33  
Old August 27, 2012, 04:35 AM
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Fantastic effort. And this considering he had some bad matches. Imagine if he scored in those innings, he could have been well ahead of anyone else.
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  #34  
Old August 27, 2012, 08:41 AM
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Jaihok,bhalo korsey,onek congratulatory thread paisey, ekhon internationals e chance paya bhalo korlei hoy,naile shara jibon ghor mukhi hoye katatey hobey.
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  #35  
Old August 27, 2012, 08:49 AM
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^^

Anamul phail korle oke apnar bashai ghor jamai hishebe thakte dite hobe
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  #36  
Old August 27, 2012, 08:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by playmaker
^^

Anamul phail korle oke apnar bashai ghor jamai hishebe thakte dite hobe
shathey tomakey nibo "ghor jhatai" er jonno, kemon?
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  #37  
Old August 27, 2012, 09:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reyme
Anamul is very close to be ready for the National Team. We will play West Indies high performance team very soon. Let him play all those matches.
I forgot about that. Also I don't think it'll interfere with our national team tour. So we can see how he does in that tour. If he ends up doing well there then expect to see him in the WI tour.

Last edited by Tiger444; August 27, 2012 at 11:05 AM..
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  #38  
Old August 27, 2012, 11:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beshideshi
Except Shamsur Rahman[who was part of the squad for 2-3 series], everyone at least played one game. But the thing is, I have seen too many promising players getting lost in the transition. And seeing Anamul in Zimbabwe made me fear he might get lost as well. I want to see him play at least 2-3 more years of A team and FC before playing for the national team[which probably wont happen].

You can see the difference between an experienced guy in the national team[ Elias sunny] and a player fast tracked from U19 level[S. Shuvo]. Both of them are/were of quite similar quality, but as Sunny has a lot more experience, he has a greater chance of survival and Bangladesh can expect at least 6-7 years of service from him.
That's why it's important to watch these players in action and not just look at the statistics. As we saw with Shuvo, he just darted the ball in and at the same time was pretty inaccurate as he would offer at least 1 half volley or full toss an over. That's just not going to get you wickets at the international level. The selectors should've seen that and should not have picked him.

With Sunny OTOH, we saw that he isn't afraid to give the ball flight and at the same time is pretty accurate which is why you see him doing well at the international level.

So that's really the key. We need our selectors to understand which players can be successful with their games and which won't so the process in selecting players is smoother.
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  #39  
Old August 27, 2012, 11:54 AM
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^

thats why you need the selectors to watch the players themselves and accompanying them in A and Academy team tours.
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  #40  
Old August 27, 2012, 02:23 PM
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^ Good idea. But what does these selectors do really? I still can't figure out what Haba was doing with all kinds of wrong team selection in Australia....Haba is totally useless these days....
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  #41  
Old August 27, 2012, 07:18 PM
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Originally Posted by playmaker
^

thats why you need the selectors to watch the players themselves and accompanying them in A and Academy team tours.
are you telling me the selectors don't even go and watch these players in domestic games? or are you just saying they don't see academy and A team games? if it's the earlier one that's unbelievable.
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  #42  
Old August 27, 2012, 08:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gowza
are you telling me the selectors don't even go and watch these players in domestic games? or are you just saying they don't see academy and A team games? if it's the earlier one that's unbelievable.
Only if the games are played in Capital Dhaka specially if its SBNCS. Anywhere else the chances are very low.
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  #43  
Old August 27, 2012, 08:29 PM
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Originally Posted by MohammedC
Only if the games are played in Capital Dhaka specially if its SBNCS. Anywhere else the chances are very low.
now that's just ridiculous, if the selectors themselves don't go look at the players then they should have scouts watching them and reporting back.
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  #44  
Old August 28, 2012, 12:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gowza
i don't think nabil has played for the national team...as far as shuvo being fast tracked well he was pretty much the top performing spinner domestically for the last 4 seasons at the time he was selected and if you look at how many matches shuvo and elias have played they've played a very similar amount of list A games, sunny has played quite a few more FC matches but if a player is a top performer for 4 seasons in a row i don't think that's really fast tracking, yes he was young but he was still quite experienced at least for a BD player.

the problem with A team cricket is it isn't organised very often and the problem with domestic cricket is it isn't challenging enough. to develop a good player you need to keep challenging them, keep raising the bar higher, BD domestic cricket isn't at a high enough standard yet to do that unfortunately. so to get that players either have to go abroad (which they rarely do) or they have to be put into the national team.

no one wants to lose a talented player.
Very good post

Isn't it interesting that when the nattering Nabobs of negativism give examples of U19 teenagers who couldn't hack it at the highest level, they conveniently ignore the ones who have become successful enough to form the nucleus of our current side?

People really see beyond decontextualized domestic statistics and nationalist pride, and invest in understanding the game well enough to understand what unusual ability and talent is. The kind of RARE talent (Shakib, Tamim, and to a lesser extent Mushfique, Nasir and Riyad) that can actually accelerate development through early exposure at the highest level, ESPECIALLY in light of the farcical quality of our domestic cricket coupled with inadequate A Team and Academy cricket.

Classifying MS Shubho, SR Shubho, Mithun Ali, Nazimuddin, Jahurual Islam Omi, Mehrab Hossain Orion, Rokibul Hasan Nauyon or even Shahriar Nafees Abir in the same category of talent is nothing short of laughable once you actually see them bat anywhere. Granted we've seen our share of genuinely capable U19 players like Al Shahariar Rokon, Nafees Iqbal and Aftab Ahmed who couldn't sustain success for a variety of psychosomatic reasons, probably injury-driven in the case of the elder Iqbal, but we have plenty more who have since early debut at 17, 18 and 19. Both Junaid Siddique Imroze and Imrul Kayes Shagor are in still the reserves, and no way should anyone count Dhiman Ghosh who never debuted early BTW, out yet.

I think the odds are strongly on Bijauy's side. There is NOBODY like him at his level and I think he'll make an immediate, positive impact in our team in dire need of consistent top order contribution. Shuvagata Hom (not a teenager BTW) and Sabbir Rahman Rumman come close with their ability to contribute in the middle and lower middle order respectively in the shorter formats. Mominul Haque Shourav deserves a go but I honestly don't see him sustaining success at the highest level. I'd desperately love to be proved wrong by him. The fact is, too much domestic cricket do more harm than good for such players because they often develop bad habits on crappy pitches playing casual cricket, and regularly get away with things that guarantee failure at the highest level.

Then again some of the pundits here may think, often without the benefit of actually watching domestic cricket and/or understanding what's happening when they do, that "conventional wisdom" applied in Australia, South Africa, England, India or Sri Lanka should apply here also, even when the overall quality of our domestic cricket is nowhere near theirs.

Other prospects like Soumya Sarkar, Liton Kumar Das and maybe Amit Mazumdar, Mosaddek Hossain Saikat and Asif Ahmed Ratul, I have serious doubts about these 3 and their ability to sustain success at the highest level in terms of both skill and strength of character, have a LONG way to go before we can hope for them to succeed in the senior side.
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  #45  
Old August 28, 2012, 12:31 AM
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The Awkward moment when you read "Congrats Bijoy for finnishing" at first in main page, and ing that now we are congratulating people just for finishing things.
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  #46  
Old August 28, 2012, 07:16 AM
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Well done ma boy. keep us proud. inshaAllah this is just the beginning
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  #47  
Old August 28, 2012, 08:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gowza
i don't think nabil has played for the national team...as far as shuvo being fast tracked well he was pretty much the top performing spinner domestically for the last 4 seasons at the time he was selected and if you look at how many matches shuvo and elias have played they've played a very similar amount of list A games, sunny has played quite a few more FC matches but if a player is a top performer for 4 seasons in a row i don't think that's really fast tracking, yes he was young but he was still quite experienced at least for a BD player.

the problem with A team cricket is it isn't organised very often and the problem with domestic cricket is it isn't challenging enough. to develop a good player you need to keep challenging them, keep raising the bar higher, BD domestic cricket isn't at a high enough standard yet to do that unfortunately. so to get that players either have to go abroad (which they rarely do) or they have to be put into the national team.

no one wants to lose a talented player.
I do get what you are trying to say. But perhaps that is the main problem, we have to lift the standards up of our first class or send more and more teams abroad for experience.
Because, as many of us might not be aware of, the difference between U19 and Test cricket is pretty much the difference between class 5 and HSC.

There will always be a few players who are different from others, who will excel at an early age and establish themselves anyways. However, there are players[the majority] who will be crushed by the pressure of facing the likes of Steyn/Morkel, and will find it hard to be their best again.

And as Tiger_444 said, S Shuvo is a very ordinary bowler who has very little variety in his repertoire. Compare that to someone like Elias Sunny, who has plied his trades in the first class structure for years and understands the batsman much better, and hence is a better bowler. It will not be surprising to see Shuvo play another couple of years in FC and then be successful in international stage. Mark Taylor once told me, that no matter how much you train, how talented you are, you learn the most by playing in the middle. [I am sorry to bring the same set of players for the argument, but I think there can't be a better example of a player being prepared well by a long and hard domestic career, be it in a weak one like ours]

Also, it's funny how some of our experts had already rated S. Hom as the next bradman, and now he finds it difficult to make it into the A team. He was supposedly ready for international cricket and ready to take down the world. We have way too many experts who have already made calls on players without ever judging their quality properly.

From what I have seen of Anamul, he is not yet ready for international cricket. Put him in the deep end, and he might drown. Put him in the shallow end and he will work his way to the deep end.

I also hope the culture of plucking young promising players from U19 level into the national team will change. I know it is not really feasible in our circumstances, but a player should enter the national team at his PEAK. I hope our FC structure becomes stronger and it helps talented U19 players to make the transition.
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  #48  
Old August 28, 2012, 10:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sohel
Very good post

Isn't it interesting that when the nattering Nabobs of negativism give examples of U19 teenagers who couldn't hack it at the highest level, they conveniently ignore the ones who have become successful enough to form the nucleus of our current side?

People really see beyond decontextualized domestic statistics and nationalist pride, and invest in understanding the game well enough to understand what unusual ability and talent is. The kind of RARE talent (Shakib, Tamim, and to a lesser extent Mushfique, Nasir and Riyad) that can actually accelerate development through early exposure at the highest level, ESPECIALLY in light of the farcical quality of our domestic cricket coupled with inadequate A Team and Academy cricket.

Classifying MS Shubho, SR Shubho, Mithun Ali, Nazimuddin, Jahurual Islam Omi, Mehrab Hossain Orion, Rokibul Hasan Nauyon or even Shahriar Nafees Abir in the same category of talent is nothing short of laughable once you actually see them bat anywhere. Granted we've seen our share of genuinely capable U19 players like Al Shahariar Rokon, Nafees Iqbal and Aftab Ahmed who couldn't sustain success for a variety of psychosomatic reasons, probably injury-driven in the case of the elder Iqbal, but we have plenty more who have since early debut at 17, 18 and 19. Both Junaid Siddique Imroze and Imrul Kayes Shagor are in still the reserves, and no way should anyone count Dhiman Ghosh who never debuted early BTW, out yet.

I think the odds are strongly on Bijauy's side. There is NOBODY like him at his level and I think he'll make an immediate, positive impact in our team in dire need of consistent top order contribution. Shuvagata Hom (not a teenager BTW) and Sabbir Rahman Rumman come close with their ability to contribute in the middle and lower middle order respectively in the shorter formats. Mominul Haque Shourav deserves a go but I honestly don't see him sustaining success at the highest level. I'd desperately love to be proved wrong by him. The fact is, too much domestic cricket do more harm than good for such players because they often develop bad habits on crappy pitches playing casual cricket, and regularly get away with things that guarantee failure at the highest level.

Then again some of the pundits here may think, often without the benefit of actually watching domestic cricket and/or understanding what's happening when they do, that "conventional wisdom" applied in Australia, South Africa, England, India or Sri Lanka should apply here also, even when the overall quality of our domestic cricket is nowhere near theirs.

Other prospects like Soumya Sarkar, Liton Kumar Das and maybe Amit Mazumdar, Mosaddek Hossain Saikat and Asif Ahmed Ratul, I have serious doubts about these 3 and their ability to sustain success at the highest level in terms of both skill and strength of character, have a LONG way to go before we can hope for them to succeed in the senior side.
I don't have experience watching modern day domestic cricket in Bangladesh first hand, so this is a genuine question, not a criticism. You were pretty sure Junaid/Junaed/Zunaid/Zunaed was the next best thing after Sachin Tendulkar (ok, I exaggerate), but his performances over the years, in comparison, have been of zeroic proportions. You had placed Shubhogoto Hom on the same otherwise insurmountable pedestal as Sir Bradman (ok, I exaggerate), but so far he has done zilch.

"Oi miya apni boshen, oi pagol naki? Eto pechal pare ken? Eto bhashon dawoner ki ase?"
"Asif miya apni apnar proshno koren, apnar bhashon shonar eto shomoy nai...get to the point"
"Manoniyo speaker amake proshno phormulate korte diben to, proshno phormulate na korle jobab diben kemne? Proshner aaga matha kisu na buijha kemne uttor phormulate korben?"
"Asif miya eto shomoy nai, apnar bhashon baad diya proshno ta koren, naile apnar mic off koira dibo"
"Dhuro jaan giya, aijka jodi shorkari dol er MP hoitam, thiki amare adha ghonta dhoira proshno phormulate korar shomoy diten...birodhi doler MP deikha amare manush boila gonno koren na, tai na? High court e apnar naam e durnitir mamla ko..." (mic gets muted)

Lucky for me we're not in Parliament. So bhashon aside, Sohel bhai, what is the guarantee that you, having watched domestic cricket and made predictions that have gone wronger than an attempted Ashra-scoop off a Dale Steyn yorker, are right this time and why do you think so?
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  #49  
Old August 28, 2012, 10:49 AM
MohammedC MohammedC is offline
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Congratulation Bijoy
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  #50  
Old August 28, 2012, 02:27 PM
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kalpurush kalpurush is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MohammedC
Congratulation Bijoy
Why?\!?

He failed to take Bangladesh to the final - he failed to motivate his colleagues to play as a team!!

May be a 1/2 congrats instead!!!
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