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  #101  
Old May 22, 2013, 04:45 AM
Gowza Gowza is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sum_1
My all time XI

1. Jack Hobbs
2. Don Bradman
3. Rahul Dravid/Sachin Tendukar
4. Jacques Kallis/Shaun Pollock
5. Viv Richards
6. Gary Sobers
7. Adam Gilchrist/Ian Healy
8. Jim Laker/Erapalli Prassanna
9. Abdul Quadir/Bill O'Reilly
10. Malcolm Marshall/Dennis Lillee
11. Sydney Barnes
that's more of a squad (a big squad at that) than an XI. i know it's really really tough to just pick XI but that's all you can take onto the field.....also bradman wasn't an opener and shaun pollock wouldn't bat at #4....nonetheless it would be a very competitive team.
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  #102  
Old May 22, 2013, 11:54 AM
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yup I admit I found it difficult to zero in on a playing XI. Its more of 3 or 4 playing XIs based on the combinations. The #4 position is specially for Kallis, Pollock would definitely bat lower down the order. But I'd stick with Bradman as the opener, it'd be fun to watch him and Hobbs competing for dominance.
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  #103  
Old May 22, 2013, 04:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sum_1
yup I admit I found it difficult to zero in on a playing XI. Its more of 3 or 4 playing XIs based on the combinations. The #4 position is specially for Kallis, Pollock would definitely bat lower down the order. But I'd stick with Bradman as the opener, it'd be fun to watch him and Hobbs competing for dominance.
you are certainly correct there! would be a magnificent battle!
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  #104  
Old May 22, 2013, 10:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sum_1
My all time XI

1. Jack Hobbs
2. Don Bradman
3. Rahul Dravid/Sachin Tendukar
4. Jacques Kallis/Shaun Pollock
5. Viv Richards
6. Gary Sobers
7. Adam Gilchrist/Ian Healy
8. Jim Laker/Erapalli Prassanna
9. Abdul Quadir/Bill O'Reilly
10. Malcolm Marshall/Dennis Lillee
11. Sydney Barnes
btw no warne or murali? what are the reasons for picking all those other spinners ahead of them? i go for warne in my all time team because he's a leggy that has a ton of variations but also i feel he is one of the greatest cricketers ever with his fielding and batting brought into the picture. plus warne did slightly better if you take all conditions into account, both had 2 places they didn't do well in. murali had australia (average 75) and india (average 45), warne had west indies ( average 39) and india (average 43). so warne's worst was better than murali's worst, murali will give you a slightly better strike rate overall and better average but warne isn't as bad in his weak conditions and also has his fielding and batting to add to the team. that's my reasoning for taking warne over anyone else in an all time team.

i'm guessing pollock is in the squad for his all round abilities? he was a great bowler but not right at the top imo (like walsh - i'd love to put walsh with those greats but just can't). but if he is there for his all round abilities then why not take imran or miller or hadlee or procter? all better bowlers (bar miller possibly) and all better batsmen (bar hadlee possibly - though personally if you look into their FC records i prefer hadlee the batsman ahead of pollock and imo hadlee is a far greater bowler than shaun).
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  #105  
Old May 23, 2013, 06:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gowza
btw no warne or murali? what are the reasons for picking all those other spinners ahead of them? i go for warne in my all time team because he's a leggy that has a ton of variations but also i feel he is one of the greatest cricketers ever with his fielding and batting brought into the picture. plus warne did slightly better if you take all conditions into account, both had 2 places they didn't do well in. murali had australia (average 75) and india (average 45), warne had west indies ( average 39) and india (average 43). so warne's worst was better than murali's worst, murali will give you a slightly better strike rate overall and better average but warne isn't as bad in his weak conditions and also has his fielding and batting to add to the team. that's my reasoning for taking warne over anyone else in an all time team.

i'm guessing pollock is in the squad for his all round abilities? he was a great bowler but not right at the top imo (like walsh - i'd love to put walsh with those greats but just can't). but if he is there for his all round abilities then why not take imran or miller or hadlee or procter? all better bowlers (bar miller possibly) and all better batsmen (bar hadlee possibly - though personally if you look into their FC records i prefer hadlee the batsman ahead of pollock and imo hadlee is a far greater bowler than shaun).
You're absolutely right about Pollock. On second thoughts I'd put Procter and Imran ahead of him. My initial idea was to select an allrouder with exactly 50:50 batting/bowling capabilities, and only those 2 came to mind.

Regarding the spinners, I have a slight tendency to over glorify the past. Though I'd rate Laker among the very best. He has some outstanding records both in domestic (1944 wkts) and international matches, and should walk into any all time XIs.
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  #106  
Old May 23, 2013, 10:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sum_1
You're absolutely right about Pollock. On second thoughts I'd put Procter and Imran ahead of him. My initial idea was to select an allrouder with exactly 50:50 batting/bowling capabilities, and only those 2 came to mind.

Regarding the spinners, I have a slight tendency to over glorify the past. Though I'd rate Laker among the very best. He has some outstanding records both in domestic (1944 wkts) and international matches, and should walk into any all time XIs.
if you're looking for allrounders with 50/50 batting/bowling then i'd say look at guys like botham, cairns etc the ones that average around 30 both bat and ball because all the others are generally too far one way or the other e.g. kallis a greater batter, imran greater bowler.

also the tail looks pretty long, though in an all time xi having a long tail probably isn't hurting to much but still nice to have a good #7/8/9 and there are plenty of options with the likes of procter, imran, hadlee, pollock, miller, botham, cairns, shakib, mankad, faulkner.

the all rounder spots are always tough in an all time xi, more so on the bowling front. for my all time XI's i always go by the philosophy that you should only pick an all rounder if you're picking them specifically for one suit with the other being a bonus. sobers for example makes my al time xi regardless of his bowling, imran and procter make my team for their bowling regardless of their batting. hadlee (which i did at one stage have in my all time xi) makes it as a bowler regardless of his batting, kallis would make it on his batting. that's why i don't usually have guys like cairns, botham etc in my all time teams because they aren't strong enough in one suit to make it at the all time level, though at their peaks they are tempting (cairns averaged 42/43 with the bat and 26 with the ball from about 1999-2004).

the other thing about all rounders is do you pick them based on their overall career or their peak when they did both batting and bowling best together? or their talent? for example botham had a great peak where he was awesome with both bat and ball at the same time, but it didn't last that long compared to his entire career. imran and faulkner have great bowling and batting numbers overall but supposedly they were never bowling and batting at their best at the same time (aside from occasional matches - even though imran averaged over 50 with the bat and something like 19 with the ball for a corresponding 10 year period he apparently was rarely bowling his best when batting his best as he bowled less as he got older and batted more so for that reason some people exclude his all round abilities when considering an all time xi). miller, great numbers overall but looking at his FC record where he averaged 48, he seems to have underperformed a bit with the bat internationally, however there are a lot of stories about him saying he would sometimes literally give his wicket away in certain situations and therefore he didn't always try his best, so do you pick him based on his international numbers or overall talent? he didn't always try, that's a negative, but when he did try he got the results which is a positive.
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Last edited by Gowza; May 23, 2013 at 08:58 PM..
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  #107  
Old May 23, 2013, 09:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sum_1
You're absolutely right about Pollock. On second thoughts I'd put Procter and Imran ahead of him. My initial idea was to select an allrouder with exactly 50:50 batting/bowling capabilities, and only those 2 came to mind.

Regarding the spinners, I have a slight tendency to over glorify the past. Though I'd rate Laker among the very best. He has some outstanding records both in domestic (1944 wkts) and international matches, and should walk into any all time XIs.
procter got huge FC numbers to - almost 22000 FC runs with 48 tons and 1400+ FC wickets strike rate of 46, average in the 19s). same can be said for barry richards - 28000+ runs, 54 average, 80 tons and graeme pollock - nearly 21000 FC runs, average 54 with 64 tons.

some players imo deserve to be the exception when it comes to having played a lot of test cricket, mainly the south african's that missed out but still had incredible FC careers, did well in world series cricket and county cricket and batted on the toughest pitches at the time. the period that barry richards, procter and graeme pollock were playing county cricket it was considered to be at it's highest level, greats from all around the world played in it so they were face the very best and batting on the toughest conditions which is why i give them the exceptions.

i do however find it hard to place the older spinners who played on uncovered wickets, no doubt they were very very good but it's hard to compare them to spinners of today who don't get to play on those minefields. batsmen on the other hand, the ones who succeeded on uncovered wickets should certainly have succeeded on covered wickets.
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  #108  
Old May 25, 2013, 01:22 PM
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The All Time Unbeatable Fixing XI
-----------------------------------------
1. Salman Butt
2. Herschelle Gibbs (wk)
3. Mohammad Azharuddin (vc)
4. Marlon Samuels
5. Saleem Malik (c)
6. Hansie Cronje
7. Ajay Jadeja
8. Maurice Odumbe
9. Manoj Probhakar
10. Mohammad Asif
11. Mohammad Amir
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  #109  
Old May 26, 2013, 06:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by One World
The All Time Unbeatable Fixing XI
-----------------------------------------
1. Salman Butt
2. Herschelle Gibbs (wk)
3. Mohammad Azharuddin (vc)
4. Marlon Samuels
5. Saleem Malik (c)
6. Hansie Cronje
7. Ajay Jadeja
8. Maurice Odumbe
9. Manoj Probhakar
10. Mohammad Asif
11. Mohammad Amir
Umpires: Nadir Shah and Asad Rauf
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  #110  
Old May 26, 2013, 06:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gowza
i do however find it hard to place the older spinners who played on uncovered wickets, no doubt they were very very good but it's hard to compare them to spinners of today who don't get to play on those minefields. batsmen on the other hand, the ones who succeeded on uncovered wickets should certainly have succeeded on covered wickets.
But isn't by the same logic its hard to place the older pacers who bowled to batsmen without proper protection (chest guards, helmets) to the modern pacers who don't have the luxury to ball just fast and short and get away with it. How successful would Larwood or Gilchrist be in the modern era? on the other hand, imagine batsmen facing Brett Lee or Dale Steyn without a helmet.
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  #111  
Old May 26, 2013, 10:59 AM
Gowza Gowza is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sum_1
But isn't by the same logic its hard to place the older pacers who bowled to batsmen without proper protection (chest guards, helmets) to the modern pacers who don't have the luxury to ball just fast and short and get away with it. How successful would Larwood or Gilchrist be in the modern era? on the other hand, imagine batsmen facing Brett Lee or Dale Steyn without a helmet.
very true, though most fast bowlers that i rate right at the top are 70's onwards so it's not so much of an issue for me, but yes certainly a valid point.
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  #112  
Old May 28, 2013, 09:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by One World
The All Time Unbeatable Fixing XI
-----------------------------------------
1. Salman Butt
2. Herschelle Gibbs (wk)
3. Mohammad Azharuddin (vc)
4. Marlon Samuels
5. Saleem Malik (c)
6. Hansie Cronje
7. Ajay Jadeja
8. Maurice Odumbe
9. Manoj Probhakar
10. Mohammad Asif
11. Mohammad Amir
Ash couldn't get in to this XI as well.
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  #113  
Old May 28, 2013, 09:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roman
Subcontinent test XI

1 Gavaskar
2 Tendulkar
3 Dravid
4 Miandad
5 Arvinda De Silva
6 Sangakkara (wk)
7 Imran Khan (c)
8 Wasim Akram
9 Waqar
10 Shoaib Akhter
11 Muralitharan
This is an excellent XI. The only change i would like to make is at 10. Kapil Dev. Plus he would bat before Wasim.
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  #114  
Old May 29, 2013, 04:44 AM
Gowza Gowza is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tigers_eye
This is an excellent XI. The only change i would like to make is at 10. Kapil Dev. Plus he would bat before Wasim.
yeah terrific call imo, kapil much more valuable than shoaib considering you already have imran, waqar and wasim in the team. and yes bat him ahead of wasim.
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  #115  
Old May 30, 2013, 05:49 PM
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Here's an idea:

ATG Test avg Better Than FC avg XI:

Go!
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  #116  
Old May 30, 2013, 07:09 PM
Gowza Gowza is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by al Furqaan
Here's an idea:

ATG Test avg Better Than FC avg XI:

Go!
first choices would have to be bradman, b.richards and g. pollock. all of them already in my all time XI haha. also jack hobbs and viv richards, which again are already in my all time team. sobers is next and yet again he's already in my all time XI. from there it's gilchrist who is also my first choice keeper for an all time XI.

i can't find an allrounder who has both a better bat and bowling average in tests than in FC cricket.

for bowlers i'd go with allan donald and dale steyn, and stick with shane warne, though murali is still a spin option under this criteria.

All Time Better Test Averages Than FC Averages XI:

1 jack hobbs
2 barry richards
3 don bradman
4 graeme pollock
5 viv richards
6 garry sobers
7 adam gilchrist
8 ????????????????
9 shane warne
10 dale steyn
11 allan donald

don't know if this is the best XI you could make i.e. don't know if the ones i've put here have a higher test average by the greatest amount compared to their FC averages but i found it interesting how all these greats have better test averages than their FC averages, afterall test cricket is meant to be tougher than FC cricket. just shows how truly great these players were if they were able to perform at a better rate at the higher level.

now if anyone has all rounder idea's let me know. closest i've found so far are imran and miller, both have better batting averages (miller by a large margin), but both have slightly lower test bowling averages than FC averages (still averaging 22 in both tests and FCs though).

sangakkara and kallis would be good batting options for this XI.
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Last edited by Gowza; May 30, 2013 at 07:43 PM..
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  #117  
Old June 2, 2013, 08:45 AM
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I got your #8. Both categories have better records in Tests than First class. 5k+ test runs.
Doug Walters (AUS)
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  #118  
Old June 3, 2013, 01:32 AM
Gowza Gowza is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tigers_eye
I got your #8. Both categories have better records in Tests than First class. 5k+ test runs.
Doug Walters (AUS)
yeah good call, being a #8 i'd prefer a better bowler, but if this is the criteria then he's a good shout i think, ridiculously good with the bat for a #8 though haha!
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  #119  
Old June 8, 2013, 02:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roman
Subcontinent test XI

1 Gavaskar
2 Tendulkar
3 Dravid
4 Miandad
5 Arvinda De Silva
6 Sangakkara (wk)
7 Imran Khan (c)
8 Wasim Akram
9 Waqar
10 Shoaib Akhter
11 Muralitharan
as said previously swap shoaib for kapil and bat kapil ahead of wasim. i'd drop tendu to #4, miandad to #5 and leave out aravinda (though aravinda did well getting centuries per match compared to miandad, miandad was still overall more consistent). or drop both aravinda and miandad and bring in younis khan. if you look more in depth at the test careers of miandad and younis, younis has done slightly better for the most part in different conditions than miandad and if he hasn't it's still close (only one is WI but that's younis's worst and miandad's worst is a lot worse than younis's. also despite playing 42 less matches to miandad, younis has only 2 less centuries - big difference in half centuries but miandad has played many more matches so that is expected). miandad possibly faced tougher bowling more regularly so it's tough to pick between them.

open with anwar. sehwag has a better overall average and much better strike rate but he had a lot of trouble in seaming conditions. he did do well in australia, averaged 46 which is very nice but in SA, NZ and england i think he averaged less than 30 in each of those countries and that's just not going to do it in an all time XI, don't care how good he was in the sub con if you want a team that can play anywhere around the world you can't pick sehwag. of course if they are playing in the sub con then sehwag is a must.

1 Gavaskar
2 Anwar
3 Dravid
4 Tendulkar
5 Miandad/Younis
6 Sangakkara (Wk)
7 Imran
8 Kapil
9 Wasim
10 Waqar
11 Murali
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  #120  
Old July 7, 2013, 11:21 PM
Gowza Gowza is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gowza
another edit. greig takes the #8 spot and procter takes wasim's spot. and goddard contends for an opener spot. so:

1 goddard/watson
2 barlow
3 kallis
4 sobers
5 miller
6 shakib
7 gilchrist
8 greig
9 imran
10 procter
11 hadlee

could possibly take shaun pollock ahead of hadlee but hadlee has the better strike rate and better average as a bowler, he has the same number of test tons as pollock with many less matches, a higher highest score in tests and FC cricket and he scored more than double the amount of tons in FC cricket than pollock (14 to 6) and more half tons (59 to 35). granted hadlee played many more matches but he just has a slightly better resume plus he's a better overall bowler and being that they'll be batting at #11 i think the batting is pretty much similar if not hadlee possibly slightly better and hadlee is also a slightly better bowler.
revised again.

all rounders XI

1 watson
2 barlow
3 kallis
4 sobers
5 miller
6 faulkner
7 gilchrist
8 procter
9 rice
10 imran
11 hadlee

notable misses: cairns, botham, kapil, shakib, greig, gregory.

didn't realise but mike procter actually began as a wicket keeper as a young boy. if one were to make an all rounders XI which excluded a genuine keeper then could always have proccy taking the gloves.
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Last edited by Gowza; July 10, 2013 at 11:53 PM..
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  #121  
Old July 20, 2013, 10:04 PM
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INDIAN TEST XI

1.GAVASKAR
2.SEHWAG
3.DRAVID
4.SACHIN
5.LAXMAN
6.V.MANKAD
7.MS DHONI(wk)
8.KAPIL DEV(c)
9.B BEDI
10.SRINATH
11.KUMBLE

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  #122  
Old July 21, 2013, 07:19 AM
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http://www.banglacricket.com/alochon....php?p=1203868

and

http://www.banglacricket.com/alochon...ad.php?t=21731
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  #123  
Old August 3, 2013, 12:32 AM
Gowza Gowza is offline
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1-10 test matches XI:

1 Barry Richards
2 Vijay Merchant
3 Stewie Dempster
4 Brad Hodge
5 Archie Jackson
6 Lee Irvine
7 Mike Procter
8 Xen Balaskas? (which other spinners are there?)
9 Tony Gray
10 Mohammad Zahid (if you want 4 pacers, might be a better one than zahid though...)/Charlie Parker? (again, any other spinners?)
11 Brett Schultz

this was actually kind of hard, probably could improve it but it's tough to find players who had good records, and were talked about as great players but played only between 1-10 test matches. it's easier if you allow yourself to pick players that didn't play any test cricket e.g. garth le roux, clive rice vince van der bijl.

batting seems solid, was hard to find bowlers with both good FC and test records.
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  #124  
Old August 3, 2013, 12:40 PM
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1.Bradman
2. Jesop
3. Gayle
4. Sehwag
5. Sachin
6. Lara
7. Jayasuria
8. Ambrose
9. Wisden
10. Spofforth
11. Hobbs

will beat any team on any given day in ANY FORMAT
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  #125  
Old August 3, 2013, 01:13 PM
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Zeeshan Zeeshan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gowza
Bill O'Reilly
never knew amader conservative chairman shaheb cricket khele...nijer chokhe dekha gowza? is he for realy?
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