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  #251  
Old September 18, 2012, 01:30 AM
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al Furqaan al Furqaan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Electrequiem
Regardless of whether I actually believe the content of Nouman's speech or not - his message is one I can identify with. There are lots of angry Muslims out there - and much harm can come from/to them if this misplaced, unwarranted, and silly anger doesn't subside. His message of restraint appeals to Muslims quite strongly and emotionally - and that's why I support this going viral.
But doesn't that compromise the wider-range goal of educating muslims that its their religion itself which breeds hostility? In other words doesn't it attempt to douse a fire with gasoline rather than with water?
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  #252  
Old September 18, 2012, 02:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Electrequiem


This guy speaks reason. More people should take heed.
I like this guy and his messages. Thanks for sharing it. Did not expect coming from you.
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  #253  
Old September 18, 2012, 05:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BANFAN
Talking western language.
....
This is intolerance of one kind, not accepting one's opinion as his own thoughtful outcome, instead labeling as occupied by evil mind. In this line of thinking/argument it easily would brand me a brainwashed western mind, and you as a Talibanized terror mind, which leaves two polarized mind to discuss on rest of your post as useless.

Btw, here is a new development, unfortunately in non-western language.


Quote:
Up to 12 people are reported to have been killed in a suicide bomb attack on a minibus carrying foreigners near the Afghan capital, Kabul.

The attack happened on a major road leading to the international airport.

Afghan insurgent group Hezb-e-Islami has claimed responsibility for the blast, which it says was in response to a recent anti-Islam video.

At least seven South Africans are reported to have been killed in the attack.
"They worked for a private aviation company," a South African foreign affairs ministry spokesman told the AFP news agency.
....
A senior counter-terrorism official in Kabul told the BBC: ''We can confirm that the suicide attack was carried out by a female suicide attacker. She is either a young girl or a woman.''

Source BBC
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  #254  
Old September 18, 2012, 06:26 AM
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BANFAN BANFAN is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PoorFan
This is intolerance of one kind, not accepting one's opinion as his own thoughtful outcome, instead labeling as occupied by evil mind. In this line of thinking/argument it easily would brand me a brainwashed western mind, and you as a Talibanized terror mind, which leaves two polarized mind to discuss on rest of your post as useless.

Btw, here is a new development, unfortunately in non-western language.
When you try to justify US killings all over the world with .."it's politics and policies so it should be faced with the same" ... That can't be a line of your own thoughts... Because we have heard this lame justification word for word in western media and western politicians mouth a zillion times.... And then I have shown you how you are hiding those bombs and drone attacks by the policy holes... Well you didn't respond to that.

I didn't understand what did you mean by highlighting a news of bomb blast in Afg. However if you create an anarchy, there are several resultant dimensions to it....

http://edition.cnn.com/2012/09/16/wo...ies/index.html

(CNN) -- NATO admitted that it had killed Afghan civilians in an airstrike early Sunday morning, hours after saying there was no evidence of civilian deaths....

You will definitely be outnumbered by my figures if you want to measure who killed more innocent civilians... US military vs the Militants. Just et me know your preferred timeline.

Doesn't definitely mean that I support any killings, but I have objection when people direct blame blindly on Islam and tries to hide the western killings by lame excuses. No killing can be justified and both parties deserve condemnation in the same breath, while the aggressor needs to stop first to stop all conflicts that costs life.
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Last edited by BANFAN; September 18, 2012 at 08:28 AM..
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  #255  
Old September 18, 2012, 08:03 AM
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I like this comment from Shaykh Yasir Qadhi on FB .

Quote:
The bulk of the Western world supports blocking the publication of the topless pictures of Princess Kate, out of decency to her and the Royal Family. There are hardly any voices clamoring for the 'freedom' to publish such photos, and those that have published them are being taken to court. And I agree, such photos shouldn't be published.

But people need to realize that Muslims the world over respect their Prophet infinitely more than the British respect their monarchy. Just like they have their standards of decency, we have ours.

Ultimate and unconditional freedom of speech does not exist in any country in the world.

And while I do understand that it's unlikely that religious mockery will ever be banned in America, I can't help but say that I wish it were.
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  #256  
Old September 18, 2012, 08:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patriot
I like this comment from Shaykh Yasir Qadhi on FB .


That's what I exactly meant in my first post ...
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  #257  
Old September 18, 2012, 09:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by al Furqaan
But doesn't that compromise the wider-range goal of educating muslims that its their religion itself which breeds hostility? In other words doesn't it attempt to douse a fire with gasoline rather than with water?
Wtf are you talking about, exactly? Whose wider-range goal is to tell Muslims their religion breeds hostility?
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  #258  
Old September 18, 2012, 09:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patriot
I like this comment from Shaykh Yasir Qadhi on FB .
That's comparing apples and oranges. Kate Middleton's topless photos are not a matter of freedom of speech - it affects her privacy in a very real way. They have privacy laws set up to protect these very things. The film insults a fictitious version of the Prophet - it is not the prophet HIMSELF. Here's an analogy - make a pornographic film using an actress who looks like Kate Middleton and plays the role of Kate Middleton. See if anyone tries to get that blocked.
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  #259  
Old September 18, 2012, 11:07 AM
F6_Turbo F6_Turbo is offline
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Khoda...think we need one of the legal minds on here to give everyone a quick refresher on

-Free Speech
-Incitement
-Hate Speech
-Privacy Laws
-Censorship
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  #260  
Old September 18, 2012, 11:08 AM
PoorFan PoorFan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BANFAN
When you try to justify US killings all over the world with .."it's politics and policies so it should be faced with the same" ... That can't be a line of your own thoughts... Because we have heard this lame justification word for word in western media and western politicians mouth a zillion times.... And then I have shown you how you are hiding those bombs and drone attacks by the policy holes... Well you didn't respond to that.
That was my response to your 'Tyrannic politics all over the world' which you said 'Tyrannic western politics and interest' is behind starving, miserable people in those world. Do not twist the context and label me justifying US war killings, we had these kind of twisting argument zillion times here on BC as well. You shown very little but loop holes in your argument, you should know the difference between US bomb, drone attack and religious zealot blowing up indiscriminate, innocent same Muslims on street, market, school, mosque and what not. That is why I said 'declare/engage war' meaning go after their troops if you have to fight, but killing indiscriminate and innocent people IS NOT justifiable and acceptable to me. If you are not willing to recognize that difference then may be that is the difference between you and me.

Quote:
I didn't understand what did you mean by highlighting a news of bomb blast in Afg. However if you create an anarchy, there are several resultant dimensions to it....
Indiscriminate and innocent target in a sickening manner [using girl suicide bomber]. Remember your term 'retaliation in any way they can'? Just shows the difference between us, isnt it? And I think I am in sane mind, and feel perfectly ok the way I am.

Quote:
http://edition.cnn.com/2012/09/16/wo...ies/index.html

(CNN) -- NATO admitted that it had killed Afghan civilians in an airstrike early Sunday morning, hours after saying there was no evidence of civilian deaths....

You will definitely be outnumbered by my figures if you want to measure who killed more innocent civilians... US military vs the Militants. Just et me know your preferred timeline.
Yes, I did read that drone attack, on that day of course, which cause innocent lives at times, but as I said earlier, there is difference.
That number game can make up any number since we see through two different prism, and I see Muslims killing innocent Muslims all over the world, and does not necessarily need to be in a ranking list.

Quote:
Doesn't definitely mean that I support any killings, but I have objection when people direct blame blindly on Islam and tries to hide the western killings by lame excuses. No killing can be justified and both parties deserve condemnation in the same breath, while the aggressor needs to stop first to stop all conflicts that costs life.
And I have same serious objection when [I see] Muslims close their eyes on Muslims killing same innocent Muslims indiscriminate giving lame excuse such as crusade, world war, holocaust, Stalin, Mao or any other BS out there. Nor I ever hesitate to condemn other innocent killers.
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  #261  
Old September 18, 2012, 02:42 PM
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I think its quite more disturbing when muslims treat prophet as god-like/idol. Which they do. This is a much worse than cursing him imo.
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  #262  
Old September 19, 2012, 08:53 AM
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People always say what they watch and listen to media but there is always other side of the story. Here is news report on SBS where reporter claimed that protesters were leaving the place after protestation and Police charged into them from back and got into fight. Now, obviously you won't know it unless you watch it on media !

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  #263  
Old September 19, 2012, 09:32 AM
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Thank you for that report Naimul bhai. There is always 2 sides to every story. The news or the stories we get may not always be true.. And sometimes it gets extremely difficult to find out what is actually going on and judge the situation. Very unfortunate though.

Yesterday someone told me an entirely different story about Libya. No...its not about Ihudi ra korse or shob Americar kaaj but he didnt have any evidence or any clips to support.
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  #264  
Old September 19, 2012, 09:35 AM
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Why is okay to mock on religion, but not another?

Quote:
The "Book of Mormon" (a crude and vulgar play poking fun at the Mormon faith)—a performance of which Hillary Clinton attended last year, without registering a complaint—comes to mind as the administration falls over itself denouncing "Innocence of Muslims." This is a film that may or may not exist; whose makers are likely not who they say they are; whose actors claim to have known neither the plot nor purpose of the film; and which has never been seen by any member of the public except as a video clip on the Internet.

No matter. The film, the administration says, is "hateful and offensive" (Susan Rice), "reprehensible and disgusting" (Jay Carney) and, in a twist, "disgusting and reprehensible" (Hillary Clinton). Mr. Carney, the White House spokesman, also lays sole blame on the film for inciting the riots that have swept the Muslim world and claimed the lives of Ambassador Chris Stevens and three of his staff in Libya.

So let's get this straight: In the consensus view of modern American liberalism, it is hilarious to mock Mormons and Mormonism but outrageous to mock Muslims and Islam. Why? Maybe it's because nobody has ever been harmed, much less killed, making fun of Mormons.
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  #265  
Old September 19, 2012, 10:13 AM
Banglatiger84 Banglatiger84 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Naimul_Hd
People always say what they watch and listen to media but there is always other side of the story. Here is news report on SBS where reporter claimed that protesters were leaving the place after protestation and Police charged into them from back and got into fight. Now, obviously you won't know it unless you watch it on media !

Very plausible scenario. But i think the criticism of the Australian protests has focused more on some of the banners carried, rather than the scuffles.
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  #266  
Old September 19, 2012, 10:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F6_Turbo
Khoda...think we need one of the legal minds on here to give everyone a quick refresher on

-Free Speech
-Incitement
-Hate Speech
This is a good place to start on the above topics: http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/freedom-speech/

If pressed for time, just look at the section that discusses John Stuart Mill's Harm Principle as well as the subsections on paternalistic and democratic justifications for limiting a liberal conception of freedom of speech.
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  #267  
Old September 19, 2012, 11:15 AM
F6_Turbo F6_Turbo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Banglatiger84
Very plausible scenario. But i think the criticism of the Australian protests has focused more on some of the banners carried, rather than the scuffles.
Exactly...We know that anytime you have protestors and the authorities show a heavy presence...things have a tendency to get out of hand.

But those placards the protestors were carrying didn't materialize because the Police supposedly acted in a heavy handed manner.
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  #268  
Old September 19, 2012, 01:54 PM
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By the by, have you guys seen this?

The Wiki article on Blasphemy Laws in Bangladesh

Rumi Ahmed, as usual, has an excellent blogpost on major blasphemy cases in Bangladesh
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  #269  
Old September 19, 2012, 02:43 PM
F6_Turbo F6_Turbo is offline
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Can anyone else notice a pattern...The f-ing mollahs come into power and they start messing with people.
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  #270  
Old September 19, 2012, 03:29 PM
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al Furqaan al Furqaan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Electrequiem
Why is okay to mock on religion, but not another?
The thing is that non-Islamic religions almost never get mocked. Even when they do on vehicles such as South Park or the Daily Show its comedy and no one religion is spared, Islam included.

Unfortunately people mistake locational context with their respective propaganda...and this applies to everyone. According to the palestinian farmer, since the driver of the bulldozer that razed his olive garden, all Jews must evil bulldozer drivers. The atheist assumes that since Pope Urban declared the crusades, religion breeds violence.

Rip a page out of the Book of Revelations and piss on it on Wall street...no one will even notice. Do it here in TN and you will probably lose a couple of teeth. Try it in Kampala and I guarantee you won't live to see another day. Brutality is not at all related to religiosity nor even to religion itself but rather directly tied to human social development. And because human social development is tied directly to GDP, socioeconomics are the determining factor.Minority Mormons in the Phillipines cannot be compared to majority Muslims in Albania. If you're going to make a comparison, all parameters must be held constant, except the one which you are testing. Should go without saying but...

No one has ever made a movie on Joseph Smith or Brigham Young. There's never been a cartoon depicting Moroni. No one's written an NY Times best seller on JW Marriot and how his hotels are creeping towards subverting western society with their Book of Mormon in the night-stand drawer. Imagine if Mohammad Fayed opened a chain of hotels with the Quran in the drawer...but you can't cuz popular sentiment wouldn't allow such a business. No one is boycotting the "heathen" Marriot...I've been there myself.

Some of you may be aware that the wholesale store Costco sells halal organic chicken at a very good price. Me and my mother went one day, couldn't find it, and asked a clerk. He knew where it was and then asked us what the big deal with halaal was. I said it was the muslim version of "kosher" and then he replied, "Yeah, we had halal adverts for the chicken but they got taken down, not sure why." I knew why. After the backlash suffered by Best Buy for their "happy eid" flyers on Thanksgiving 2009, and what happened to Lowes who wants to go out of their way to mess with American consumer intolerance?

I'm from Tennessee where our mosque in Murfreesboro had an arson attack...I mean a fire started all on its own since non-muslims would never do something like that. Its also a state - prolly not the only one - where in theory - though not in practice - Muslims are forbidden from fasting during Ramadan because thats a stipulation of sharia and by a 2011 ordinance, sharia is outlawed in the Volunteer state.

The funny thing is that the french have slapped fines and bans on the paper that took and published pics of Kate's knockers. Free speech doesn't apply their - and rightly so. Just because I want to see them, doesn't mean I have the right too.
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  #271  
Old September 19, 2012, 03:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Electrequiem
Wtf are you talking about, exactly? Whose wider-range goal is to tell Muslims their religion breeds hostility?
It should be yours, if not, then there is no motivation behind spreading false information about Islam and it then turns into bigotry.

But others who's stated objective is that include Faith Freedom and individuals such as Ibn Warraq, Mark Gabriel, Ergun Caner, Ayan Hirsi Ali, Walid Shoebat, among others. There goal is to convert Muslims to other ideologies because they pretty much believe Muslims have a mandate on violence.
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  #272  
Old September 19, 2012, 04:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Electrequiem
Why is okay to mock on religion, but not another?
Lets not forget, Zii made fun the irish people. #Irishrage
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  #273  
Old September 19, 2012, 06:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dilscoop
Lets not forget, Zii made fun the irish people. #Irishrage
That is just like South Park (who makes fun of muslims too btw and not just mormons) ie. it was comedy...done to make people laugh. Zee doesn't hate Irish. The same can't be said of "Sam Bacile" or Theo van Gogh or Geert Wilders.
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  #274  
Old September 19, 2012, 06:52 PM
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I agree with Asaad in that mocking and incitement (hate speech) are not the same. I'm ok with proscription of the latter.
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  #275  
Old September 19, 2012, 07:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F6_Turbo
Exactly...We know that anytime you have protestors and the authorities show a heavy presence...things have a tendency to get out of hand.

But those placards the protestors were carrying didn't materialize because the Police supposedly acted in a heavy handed manner.
Placard mother 'didn't know what behead meant'

Quote:
The mother who gave her young child a sign reading "behead all those who insult the prophet" has reportedly told police she did not know what the word "behead" meant.

The 28-year-old Jordanian woman presented herself to police on Monday night after she heard that authorities wanted to track her and the child down.

A photo of the four-year-old boy holding the sign in Sydney's Hyde Park has become one of the most circulated images from last Saturday's riots.NSW Police Commissioner Andrew Scipione dubbed the sign "incomprehensible" and NSW Premier Barry O'Farrell called on child protection services to investigate the woman.

But the mother, who has been living in Australia for only two years, has told detectives she did not know what the sign meant, the Daily Telegraph reports.
She reportedly said she picked up the placard in Hyde Park and carried it for a while and then encouraged her son to pose with it because she recognised the word "prophet" and just assumed it was a message supporting the Muslim prophet Muhammed.

"She said she didn't know what 'behead' meant," a police source was quoted as saying.The mother added that she was embarrassed by the "fuss" the image had created but insisted she only brought the child to the protest because she did not expect it to become violent.

Authorities went back to the woman's house on Monday night and assessed the boy and determined that he was safe, Family and Community Services Minister Pru Goward said on Tuesday.

"She might just well have thought it was a giggle to get him to hold the sign, a cute little photograph. But it is just unacceptable to the rest of us," Ms Goward told 702 ABC Radio.

"This family are now on the radar. We've had a full history done and there have been no other reports."

Senior Muslim community figures have also condemned the action of the woman.

Eight people have been arrested in relation to Saturday's riots, which began as a peaceful protest against an amateur film made in California that mocks Muhammed.
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