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  #276  
Old September 19, 2012, 07:39 PM
Zunaid Zunaid is offline
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So who printed and gave her the sign? I'm sure she did not pick it up from the coppers. She probably received it from a fellow protester who looked of her kind. I wonder if it was Sam Bacile?
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  #277  
Old September 19, 2012, 07:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zunaid
So who printed and gave her the sign? I'm sure she did not pick it up from the coppers. She probably received it from a fellow protester who looked of her kind. I wonder if it was Sam Bacile?
Nah, it was in the park and she picked it up thinking it was just a placard for protestation. But she hardly had any idea about the writing. And yes, it was written by some lunatics.

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She reportedly said she picked up the placard in Hyde Park and carried it for a while and then encouraged her son to pose with it because she recognised the word "prophet" and just assumed it was a message supporting the Muslim prophet Muhammed.
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  #278  
Old September 19, 2012, 08:39 PM
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That has to be one of the lamest excuses I have ever heard.
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  #279  
Old September 19, 2012, 08:52 PM
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Originally Posted by NoName
That has to be one of the lamest excuses I have ever heard.
Many of Arabs who come here to study either by themselves or on Govt funds, do not have minimal level of English Knowledge, yet they get into Australia. How ? Before they start their study here, they have to take 1/2 sems of English Courses. Even after that they cant communicate in English properly and forget about their spouses and children who do not have any English knowledge. During my uni life, i have seen so many arabs like that.
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  #280  
Old September 19, 2012, 08:55 PM
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http://www.npr.org/2012/09/19/161168...he-muslim-tide

This will answer to many of the questions asked here.
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  #281  
Old September 20, 2012, 08:32 AM
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Could not agree more with Dr. Mahathir Mohamad !

FREEDOM OF EXPRESSION


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  #282  
Old September 20, 2012, 09:23 AM
Banglatiger84 Banglatiger84 is offline
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Typical populist generalizations by Mahathir :

2. How would one feel if someone comes up to you and calls you “a bastard, the offspring of sex between your mother and some man who is not your legally wedded father.”
3. Well how would one feel? The Americans would feel nothing because in their society this is normal. Their mothers sleep around with just about anybody. That is the norm, they would say. So do their fathers. It is an expression of the equality of the sexes.
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  #283  
Old September 20, 2012, 09:42 AM
Zunaid Zunaid is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Banglatiger84
Typical populist generalizations by Mahathir :

2. How would one feel if someone comes up to you and calls you “a bastard, the offspring of sex between your mother and some man who is not your legally wedded father.”
3. Well how would one feel? The Americans would feel nothing because in their society this is normal. Their mothers sleep around with just about anybody. That is the norm, they would say. So do their fathers. It is an expression of the equality of the sexes.
What's good for the goose is not good for the gander. Racist Mahathir is using his freedom of expression to try to insult all Americans. Hypocrisy anyone?
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  #284  
Old September 20, 2012, 10:00 AM
PoorFan PoorFan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Banglatiger84
Typical populist generalizations by Mahathir :

2. How would one feel if someone comes up to you and calls you “a bastard, the offspring of sex between your mother and some man who is not your legally wedded father.”
3. Well how would one feel? The Americans would feel nothing because in their society this is normal. Their mothers sleep around with just about anybody. That is the norm, they would say. So do their fathers. It is an expression of the equality of the sexes.
Never thought a well known, widely respected guy could be such stupid.
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  #285  
Old September 20, 2012, 10:01 AM
Banglatiger84 Banglatiger84 is offline
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I am surprised he did not find a way to throw in the much used "in the West a woman is raped every x minutes".

And Mahathir, for all his good qualities, maintained a racist system in his country where 60% of the populace had much more govt sanctioned benefits and privileges than the other 40%

Last edited by Banglatiger84; September 20, 2012 at 02:22 PM..
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  #286  
Old September 20, 2012, 10:35 AM
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WH, says attack on US Consulate in Libya was "planned terrorist attack"

http://content.usatoday.com/communit...1#.UFs2jbJmRVV
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  #287  
Old September 20, 2012, 12:50 PM
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Wait, is that Mahathir Mohammed article from The Onion?
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  #288  
Old September 20, 2012, 11:43 PM
F6_Turbo F6_Turbo is offline
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Friday!!! Should be fun, with the French mag publishing new pics - I know why they did it...and while I'm all for freedom of speech, there needs to be a bit of common sense at play here.

I don't think one should self censor to keep the extremists on side, but more innocent ppl are going to die!
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  #289  
Old September 21, 2012, 12:21 AM
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Some well balanced [in my view] Viewpoints from BBC

Quote:


20 September 2012 Last updated at 09:15 GMT

Viewpoints: Anti-Islam film and self-censorship


Comments (811)

Continue reading the main story Anti-Islam film protests
The appearance on YouTube of an anti-Islam film produced in the US has sparked protests and attacks across parts of the Middle East, Africa and Asia, in which more than 28 people have died.

The furore has prompted debate about balancing freedom of speech with freedom of religion.

Should self-censorship and regulation be imposed in order to appease the sensitivities of religious groups?

A selection of analysts give their views:
Ed Husain, senior fellow for Middle Eastern studies, US Council on Foreign Relations, and author of The Islamist.

I am a Muslim. I am a Westerner. I see no contradictions in being both.

We reached this stage of our history by ending the control of the Catholic Church on what could and could not be said or written in public. So-called heretics were killed at the stake to help secure freedom of religion, thought, and expression. These freedoms are sacrosanct to me.

It is this history of Christian Protestant bravery that led to the creation of pluralist and secular societies in the West, allowing for the first time in history for Muslims and Jews to settle there in large numbers - we were free to practise our religions freely. The barbarity of pogroms, witch-hunting, and burning heretics ended.

My fellow Muslims must understand this background. We cannot trample on the very freedoms that allow us to thrive as Muslims. Yes, it hurts when the Prophet is insulted. From Shakespeare to Thomas Paine, Western literature is full of negative references to Muslims as Moors, Turks, and followers of Mahomet.

Similarly, classical Arabic and Persian writings are replete with anti-Semitism and denial of Christ's divinity as the son of God. Yet, it is a remarkable feat that we in the West have accommodated all faiths and no faith.

This achievement cannot be reversed. Self-censorship is to reverse the gains made by our intellectual forefathers.

Just as Muslims are free in the West, Christians and other dissenters must be free in the East.

We Muslims killed some of our best luminaries because of clerical accusations of heresy, absence of freedom of thought.

From executing al-Hallaj in Baghdad to stoning Ibn Arabi in Damascus to banishing Bulleh Shah in the Punjab, the history is bitter.

They were Muslim martyrs to freedom of thought. As a Westerner and Muslim, I want to cherish these freedoms and secure liberty for future generations.

Ed Husain can be followed on Twitter via @ed_husain

Jane Kinninmont, senior research fellow, Chatham House

The protests in many Muslim countries are only partly about the Innocence of Muslims film. They have highlighted the readiness of millions of people to blame Western governments for a supposed anti-Islam agenda, with little regard for whether there were in fact any links between those governments and a poorly produced video circulated on YouTube.

Western diplomats and governments need to be sensitive to the potential for offending others - but they can't be held responsible for policing the Internet for any potentially offensive materials, whether these deal with religious sensitivities, racism or other controversial topics.

This is not just about freedom of speech, but the realities of technology. Even in authoritarian countries censorship is growing harder to enforce.

And although self-censorship is actually already taking place - artists, writers and comedians in the West are often more careful what they say about Islam than about Christianity (though sometimes for bad reasons, like fear) - this doesn't rule out the possibility of a minority view being blown out of all proportion.

Nonetheless, Western governments need to ask themselves why so many people are ready to believe in supposed conspiracies against Islam, especially after 10 years of the "war on terror", and why it is so easy to get crowds to attack US embassies.

Certainly, anti-American protests are often a safe way to vent a variety of grievances, including local ones, and they're often exploited by groups with other agendas. For instance, some Yemeni activists argue security forces were happy to see the US embassy there attacked, in order to send a message to the US about the possible dangers of giving Yemenis political freedom.

But in the Middle East, the legacy of colonialism is still keenly felt, the Iraq war remains a source of widespread anger, and the US is widely held to be hypocritical for working closely with authoritarian Arab rulers while styling itself as a force for democracy in the world.

Given the extent of ties between the US and the former government of Hosni Mubarak, it could be argued that the West is lucky that the Egyptian uprising was not more anti-American to begin with.

Malise Ruthven, author, Islam in the World and Fundamentalism - A Very Short Introduction

Even if we discount the political opportunism of militants such as the killers of the US ambassador to Libya, Salafists in Cairo, Hezbollah activists in Lebanon and Taliban supporters in Kabul - all of them using the film to mobilise support against governments perceived as pro-Western, or pro-American - the fact remains that there is huge populist mileage in defending the aniconic (non-representational) image of the Prophet Muhammad, an image that has been programmed into the collective Muslim consciousness for more than 14 centuries.

There is, however, a crucial difference between being seen to trash that image publicly - as in the caricatures of the Prophet Muhammad first published in Denmark in 2005 and the most recent YouTube clip - and the deconstruction of that image using the tools of modern scholarship.

Historian Tom Holland's book and TV programme questioning the historicity of the Arabian Prophet drew protests from some Islamic scholars, but did not generate riots from Benghazi to Kabul.

These different responses suggest that there needs to be a two-pronged approach to the free speech issues raised by these epic furores. "Insulting" the Prophet should be categorised as a form of "hate-speech" comparable to racism or Holocaust denial, as forbidden in many European countries, because the sacred image of the Prophet is a constituent element of the Muslim communal identity.

But challenging the myths underpinning that collective psyche is another story - it is something that critics of other faiths have been engaged on since the Enlightenment in the 18th Century.

It would be utterly wrong for the law to discriminate in favour of Muslims by insulating them from this process, because critical engagement - about science, religion and politics - is a necessary precondition for human flourishing in the contemporary globalised world.

Jillian York, director of International Freedom of Expression, Electronic Frontier Foundation

When speech leads to violence, even indirectly, it becomes all too tempting to suggest that self-censorship is a smart idea.

We live in a globalised world, where what someone says in New York matters in Cairo and vice versa, making it easy to suggest an extra layer of caution and sensitivity toward embattled minority groups.

Nevertheless, such suggestions create a slippery slope toward greater censorship - one day the request might be to avoid insulting a prophet, the next it might be to avoid insulting a dictator.

No single group should be treated differently from another.
This phenomenon already occurs in parts of Europe, where Holocaust-denial is criminalised, leading other groups to demand similar restrictions.

In the United States, where the Innocence of Muslims video originated, hate speech is not a crime.

Though this openness toward free expression allows for the expression of truly odious views, it also ensures that those views are given sunlight, exposed for the public to criticise and denounce.

Ultimately, the best response to hateful speech is more speech and more debate. It is the only way to a truly pluralistic society.

Elmar Brok, German member of European Parliament and chairman of the Committee on Foreign Affairs

The film, which is denouncing and insulting the Prophet Muhammad, is wrong, and to be frank, repulsive.

I believe that "freedom of opinion" ends at the point where people intend to provoke hatred between nations and religions under the cover of this principle.

But at the same time I cannot accept the violence that we have witnessed. Violence and bloodshed are never acceptable.

Europe is proud about the freedom of speech, the freedom of opinion and the freedom of religion, which we have anchored in the constitutions of our countries, the Treaty of Lisbon and the EU Charter of Fundamental Rights.

But not everything that is allowed should be done. We all also know it will not be possible to completely stop such nasty material from being made public in the age of the Internet.

We have to work on reducing religious prejudice and resentment - this can only be done via education, and via role models.

Reducing prejudices and increasing tolerance needs to be done in both worlds - the Western world and the Arab world. The Christian minorities must feel safe and welcomed in Arab countries the same way that Muslim people must feel safe and welcomed in predominantly Christian countries.

We will not have peace in the world until we have peace between religions.
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  #290  
Old September 21, 2012, 01:16 AM
PoorFan PoorFan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F6_Turbo
Friday!!! Should be fun, with the French mag publishing new pics - I know why they did it...and while I'm all for freedom of speech, there needs to be a bit of common sense at play here.

I don't think one should self censor to keep the extremists on side, but more innocent ppl are going to die!
Not a fun to many of our people, we all know that by now. Isnt It? Where is that 'needs to be bit of common sense at aply here'?
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  #291  
Old September 21, 2012, 01:24 AM
F6_Turbo F6_Turbo is offline
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Obviously I don't think more protests, some inevitably violent, is fun...but the oneupmanship at display here is going to continue.

More cartoons...more protests...resulting in even more cartoons.

Think everyone needs to take a step back and calm down
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  #292  
Old September 21, 2012, 04:12 AM
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  #293  
Old September 21, 2012, 05:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HereWeGo

Excellent post Thanks for sharing it, HereWeGo...
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  #294  
Old September 21, 2012, 10:20 AM
PoorFan PoorFan is offline
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Still people dying all around the world on that stupid hateful video, latest development From BBC

Quote:
21 September 2012 Last updated at 15:05 GMT


Pakistan film protests: 15 die in Karachi and Peshawar


Protesters tried to reach the US consulate in the port city of Karachi
Continue reading the main story Anti-Islam film protests
Fifteen people have died as violent protests erupted on the streets of Pakistan's main cities in anger at an anti-Islam film made in the US.

Ten people were killed in the port city of Karachi and a further five died in the north-western city of Peshawar, hospital officials said.
Protesters also breached the diplomatic enclave in the capital, Islamabad, near the US embassy.

There has been widespread unrest over the amateur film, Innocence of Muslims.
Dozens of people have been reported wounded and BBC correspondents said some were critically injured.

Protests have already left several people dead around the world, including Pakistan, where the government had appealed in advance for peaceful protests, declaring a holiday and "day of love" for the Prophet Muhammad.

Although US targets have borne the brunt of protests against the film, anti-Western sentiment has been stoked further by caricatures of the Prophet Muhammad published this week in the satirical French magazine, Charlie Hebdo.

France shut embassies and other missions in around 20 countries across the Muslim world on Friday.

Protests were banned in France itself and in Tunisia, where France is the former colonial power, and there were peaceful demonstrations outside the US embassy in the Malaysian capital, Kuala Lumpur.

But it was in Pakistan's major cities that protesters took to the streets in big numbers and tried to march on US diplomatic missions.

The worst of the violence took place in the country's biggest city, Karachi, and the north-western city of Peshawar, close to Pakistan's lawless tribal belt.

In Karachi, police fired live bullets in the air to disperse the crowds and one of those killed was a policeman. Health officials said 10 bodies were taken to two hospitals.

Protesters in Peshawar attacked and ransacked cinemas and a driver for Pakistan's ARY TV was killed when police opened fire.
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  #295  
Old September 21, 2012, 10:26 AM
F6_Turbo F6_Turbo is offline
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Someone keeping a scorecard?? I hope everyone trying to justify these protests is happy...

How many Muslims dead is that now?
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  #296  
Old September 21, 2012, 01:17 PM
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Why hasn't Youtube pulled the video ? They need to be sued. Juts because there is freedom of speech doesnt mean you can say anything you want that can be rude to othersand will infuriate millions of people.
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  #297  
Old September 21, 2012, 03:32 PM
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^ You want to sue Youtube for people acting like moron? So it's youtube's fault that all those people died?



I think this meme puts it perfectly. How are all these people acting out in rage in anyway different than the guy who made the video? By causing chaos aren't they doing the very thing that Islam is against, so how are they not insulting islam?
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  #298  
Old September 21, 2012, 03:36 PM
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[QUOTE=F6_Turbo;1586232]Someone keeping a scorecard?? I hope everyone trying to justify these protests is happy...

How many Muslims dead is that now?[/QUOTE]

Does that really matter?? When you fight for a right cause you don't count each death as scores and decide the outcome. It's known at the outset that more on the protesters side I'll die or suffer.. That's precisely the reason of protest too...

If you were counting scores during the war of liberation in 71 or during the US civil rights mvement or the French revolution or the recent Egyptian revolution... You would have retreated and those events wouldn't have taken place... So it's not the score that matters, it's the cause that matters.

I have seen some people ing here at the death of protesters, but they are very vocal in death of innocents (presumably with US PP) ... So didn't feel like reacting to those. But looks like you are having fun at these death from your POV.. So thought to remind you of their POV.. Well, you may not agree but people can still be innocent with a different POV..
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  #299  
Old September 21, 2012, 03:39 PM
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You want to punish me if I talk against the Jewish religion (Anti Semitic) ?? Tell me more about how the west is a champion of free speech ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ajfar
^ You want to sue Youtube for people acting like moron? So it's youtube's fault that all those people died?



I think this meme puts it perfectly. How are all these people acting out in rage in anyway different than the guy who made the video? By causing chaos aren't they doing the very thing that Islam is against, so how are they not insulting islam?
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  #300  
Old September 21, 2012, 04:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BANFAN
You want to punish me if I talk against the Jewish religion (Anti Semitic) ?? Tell me more about how the west is a champion of free speech ...
When was the last time someone was threatened with a 'beheading' for an anti-semitic comment? Have anti-Israel, anti-Zionist protests not been held in Western capitals, with the permission and protection of the authorities? (I've seen ones in London with my own eyes) Is Mein Kampf still not sold in ordinary high street bookstores like Waterstones?
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