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  #51  
Old September 12, 2012, 12:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nafi
The Biggest joke I've ever heard.
Care to explain?
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  #52  
Old September 12, 2012, 12:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kashani-BD
why did Hazrat Omar & Hazrat Ali get killed, was it not becuase they spoke and stood up for the muslims and the teaching of prophet Muhammed?
Tell that to the Muslims who were following Mu'awiyah or to the Persian under Umar RA whose lands Arab tribes conquered. Aysha (RA) is "allegedly" one of those who most pointed to Ali (RA) as a reason for Uthman (RA)'s death. Who were the killers of Hasan (RA) and Husayn (RA)? Its Muslims who did all that, Muslims in one form or another. And this sectarianism and violence for vendettas and politics continues today in the Muslim lands. This isnt about Deen, it is very much about politics.

Last edited by ammark; September 12, 2012 at 01:01 PM.. Reason: *Uthman RA, my mistake
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  #53  
Old September 12, 2012, 01:01 PM
PoorFan PoorFan is offline
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Intolerant - Sometime because of fear, fear of going astray, as if thinking free, or otherwise, or questioning religion, as well as religious culture is an act of devil or hell bound mind. This is the reason why most of us Muslims remain silent even when an inhuman or unethical act been done in the name of religion or religious culture IMO.

Another reason is because of greed, greed for being purist as par one's holly book, gaining more holly points, and as such, as if all other things and meaning on this world means next to zero. As if all other wrongdoings, or wrong in other meaning will be ignored by God because of those holly points that gained. This is why IMO again, people mob up as saviour of religion, or religious culture even doing inhuman act or killing other people.
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  #54  
Old September 12, 2012, 01:02 PM
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Rifat Rifat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ammark
Tell that to the Muslims who were following Mu'awiyah or to the Persian under Umar RA whose lands Arab tribes conquered. Aysha (RA) is "allegedly" one of those who most pointed to Ali (RA) as a reason for Uthman (RA)'s death. Who were the killers of Hasan (RA) and Husayn (RA)? Its Muslims who did all that, Muslims in one form or another. And this sectarianism and violence for vendettas and politics continues today in the Muslim lands. This isnt about Deen, it is very much about politics.
sums up my view to the T...

excellent post AmmarK
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  #55  
Old September 12, 2012, 01:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ahnaf
But the main reason is Humanity is declining...
Well said.
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  #56  
Old September 12, 2012, 01:02 PM
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In strictly my own opinion, if you are saying Islam(or insert any religion here, they are interchangeable in this context), is bad and moving away from it is the way to solve all problem, you are an escapist trying to run away from problems without facing the issues.

It is possible to be good/bad under the umbrella of any religion/atheism (which itself is a type of religion). You become good or bad first, and then you use your tool (religion/or lack of it) as a mean or to justify your action. Or you get fooled by people like that.
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  #57  
Old September 12, 2012, 01:03 PM
Kashani-BD Kashani-BD is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ammark
Tell that to the Muslims who were following Mu'awiyah or to the Persian under Umar RA whose lands Arab tribes conquered. Aysha (RA) is "allegedly" one of those who most pointed to Ali (RA) as a reason for Umar (RA)'s death. Who were the killers of Hasan (RA) and Husayn (RA)? Its Muslims who did all that, Muslims in one form or another. And this sectarianism and violence for vendettas and politics continues today in the Muslim lands. This isnt about Deen, it is very much about politics.
please give a valid source, don't say x and y said that it was mu'awiyah or ask the persian.... give a valid source even if it means that its from the shia source which I guess u refer to that say's ayesha told ali.... thank you. our beloved shia sector say many thing's with the open mouth, when you ask them about source's, that is where the weakness arises. I don't know what sector u follow, if you don't follow any great. But you should first know who invited imam hussain. I do not like to go into this shia/sunni conflict issue, my point is simple question against, as a muslim what do you say to the innocent muslims that have been killed in burma, becuase they are muslims and got murdered becuase they belief in oneness of allah?
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  #58  
Old September 12, 2012, 01:03 PM
PoorFan PoorFan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nafi
The Biggest joke I've ever heard.
Yeah, talk about tolerance.
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  #59  
Old September 12, 2012, 01:03 PM
fush_montor fush_montor is offline
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the expansion of Islam through military and other means right after the birth of the religion established muslims as the powerhouse of world politics..they believed themselves to be the rightful succsessor of christianity and this rapid expansion led to wealth .. people from a primitve society saw themselves becoming the ruler of the world (partially at least) ..then came the crusade, a parmanent rivalry was born and later when the age of renaissance was flooding europe with new ideas and innovations, they were busy drinking wine in delhi, istanmbul or aleppo..colonaization of vast continets took place, exploitation led to the shift of global power to the west ..suddenly muslims started to think they've been 'de-throned'..what could've been theirs now belonged to the west (christianity)...propaganda about even a more glorified past caused a constant feeling of deprivation in their heart which has passed through generations..
now when they see muslims are suffering in palestine or iraq, instead of seeing it as a political oppression they label it as a war between religions..
hence conflict arise & they believe their violence to be justified..

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  #60  
Old September 12, 2012, 01:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ahnaf
I have also one simple question.. Why specifically pointing out one specific religion??
Just dont tell me people of other religion are not violent and intolerant..

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What's that cute saying...not all muslims are terrorists, but most terrorists are muslims.

Yeah that's the one.

I am a muslim, I'm not an atheist, I'm not agnostic, and I'm not questioning my faith...but NONE of that changes the fact that we are the most violent religion going atm, very little regard for others, and indeed for our 'own'.

After all AQ in the name of Allah killed more Iraqis via suicide bombings than Americans.

Other people are violent, but pointing out GWB said going into Iraq was the work of God won't cut it...you know what I mean. People screaming Allahu Akbar and then beheading a journalist...can you get how significant that is.

Not only are they killing, but they are doing it in the name of Allah.

'These people aren't true muslims' - yeah that's not gonna cut it either.

People make fun of Christianity, Judaism, Hinduism, hell even Buddhism - do we see massive protests because of this? Do we see people getting killed? Where is our sense of humor????

Why is it that, everyone else is fair game...but muslims are a taboo topic?
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  #61  
Old September 12, 2012, 01:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kashani-BD
please give a valid source, don't say x and y said that it was mu'awiyah or ask the persian.... give a valid source even if it means that its from the shia source which I guess u refer to that say's ayesha told ali.... thank you.
so a Sunni source is valid, and a Shia source is not?
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  #62  
Old September 12, 2012, 01:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ammark
This isnt about Deen, it is very much about politics.


Everywhere, everything. All about every event that looks religious can be traced back to someone's somewhere's policical agenda.
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  #63  
Old September 12, 2012, 01:11 PM
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Electrequiem Electrequiem is offline
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1. Believe in a "romanticized" version of Islam
2. Say no one practices it anymore
3. Say problems are caused because that "romanticized" version of Islam isn't being followed
4. Deflect issues and dodge problems
5. Keep imaan intact and beard long
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  #64  
Old September 12, 2012, 01:11 PM
Kashani-BD Kashani-BD is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ammark
so a Sunni source is valid, and a Shia source is not?
did i not ask for a shia source, did u read my post?

Ali (رضّى الله عنه) gave his daughter, Umm Kulthoom (رضّى الله عنها), in marriage to Umar (رضّى الله عنه). This is a fact which most Shia lay persons have no idea about. It is also a fact that topples the entire paradigm of Shi’ism. Because of this, many Shia nowadays will say that this marriage between Umar (رضّى الله عنه) and Umm Kulthoom (رضّى الله عنها) is a fairy-tale.
However, the record of this marriage is in the Shia’s most reliable book of Hadith, Al-Kafi. There are at at least four separate Hadiths attributed to the Imams which affirm the marriage of Umm Kulthoom (رضّى الله عنها) to Umar (رضّى الله عنه). In fact, the 23rd chapter in the Book of Marriage (Kitab an-Nikah) in Furoo Al-Kafi is dedicated to the marriage of Umm Kulthoom (رضّى الله عنها) and it is called “Bab Tazwig Umm Kulthoom.” Two of the four Hadith are in this chapter, while the other two are found in a related chapter on ’iddah after marriage.

source: http://www.schiiten.com/backup/Ahlel...-kulthoom.html
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  #65  
Old September 12, 2012, 01:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F6_Turbo
Why is it that, everyone else is fair game...but muslims are a taboo topic?
Because people like their heads attached to their bodies?
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  #66  
Old September 12, 2012, 01:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Electrequiem
Because people like their heads attached to their bodies?


[]

Last edited by Rubu; September 12, 2012 at 01:22 PM.. Reason: Mod.Edit: please discuss, but say away from statements that can be considered bigotry.
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  #67  
Old September 12, 2012, 01:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mufi_02


[].
Muslims aren't the problem. Their cuckoo culture of intolerance and violence is.
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Last edited by Rubu; September 12, 2012 at 01:22 PM.. Reason: Edit.quote
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  #68  
Old September 12, 2012, 01:21 PM
Kashani-BD Kashani-BD is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mufi_02


[].
Muslims: Prophet Muhammed, Musa, Isa, Ibrahim etc...

Please don't say muslim's are bad!

Last edited by Rubu; September 12, 2012 at 01:24 PM.. Reason: Mod.edit quote
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  #69  
Old September 12, 2012, 01:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Electrequiem
Muslims aren't the problem. Their cuckoo culture of intolerance and violence is.


My bad. To hell with cuckoo muslim cultures. I hope we can get that gadget from Man In Black where you flash the light and everyone forgets. I wish we can flash and the cuckoo culture will disappear. Or just an earthquake that swallows all Muslims. Either will work.
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  #70  
Old September 12, 2012, 01:25 PM
F6_Turbo F6_Turbo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mufi_02


My bad. To hell with cuckoo muslim cultures. I hope we can get that gadget from Man In Black where you flash the light and everyone forgets. I wish we can flash and the cuckoo culture will disappear. Or just an earthquake that swallows all Muslims. Either will work.
Neuralyzer
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  #71  
Old September 12, 2012, 01:26 PM
PoorFan PoorFan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ammark
Tell that to the Muslims who were following Mu'awiyah or to the Persian under Umar RA whose lands Arab tribes conquered. Aysha (RA) is "allegedly" one of those who most pointed to Ali (RA) as a reason for Uthman (RA)'s death. Who were the killers of Hasan (RA) and Husayn (RA)? Its Muslims who did all that, Muslims in one form or another. And this sectarianism and violence for vendettas and politics continues today in the Muslim lands. This isnt about Deen, it is very much about politics.
This is why we Muslims should learn/read more on Islamic/Muslim history, politics and sectarianism started right after or even just before Prophet Muhammad died and still goes on these days.
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  #72  
Old September 12, 2012, 01:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mufi_02


My bad. To hell with cuckoo muslim cultures. I hope we can get that gadget from Man In Black where you flash the light and everyone forgets. I wish we can flash and the cuckoo culture will disappear. Or just an earthquake that swallows all Muslims. Either will work.
OOO we are playing this game? I got one ... how about we invent a time machine to go back to the 6th century and prevent the revelation?
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  #73  
Old September 12, 2012, 01:27 PM
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Rifat Rifat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fush_montor
the expansion of Islam through military and other means right after the birth of the religion established muslims as the powerhouse of world politics..they believed themselves to be the rightful succsessor of christianity and this rapid expansion led to wealth .. people from a primitve society saw themselves becoming the ruler of the world (partially at least) ..then came the crusade, a parmanent rivalry was born and later when the age of renaissance was flooding europe with new ideas and innovations, they were busy drinking wine in delhi, istanmbul or aleppo..colonaization of vast continets took place, exploitation led to the shift of global power to the west ..suddenly muslims started to think they've been 'de-throned'..what could've been theirs now belonged to the west (christianity)...propaganda about even a more glorified past caused a constant feeling of deprivation in their heart which has passed through generations..
now when they see muslims are suffering in palestine or iraq, instead of seeing it as a political oppression they label it as a war between religions..
hence conflict arise & they believe their violence to be justified..

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bhai, one of the biggest misconceptions any Muslim may have is associating everything "western" with Christianity...true many societies in the west are still somewhat influenced by Christianity, most countries in Europe and north america have not ruled by Christianity or declared their government to be christian. in fact, many devout Christians condemn many government policies + certain aspects of modern western culture in America/elsewhere...

Quote:
now when they see muslims are suffering in palestine or iraq, instead of seeing it as a political oppression they label it as a war between religions..
that's exactly right, and sadly that is a misconception.

although there are Islamophobes who happen to be in power, but remember, Zionism is not judaism, a good portion of devout orthodox jews condemn Zionism, as much as a good portion of Muslims who condemn unjust killing.

The other big mistake is to associate someone like Geert Wilders with an ambassador, or associating some american islamophobe with someone else just because he happens to represent America through working for an embassy even though he himself may not be an islamophobe himself....
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  #74  
Old September 12, 2012, 01:29 PM
Kashani-BD Kashani-BD is offline
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Ammark Bhia, I am still waiting for the source
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  #75  
Old September 12, 2012, 01:30 PM
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Mufi

Use logic mate, not emotion!

If you can't control you emotion, then staying away from such topic is wiser IMHO
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