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  #1  
Old March 10, 2012, 11:12 PM
boka boka is offline
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Default CONFIDENCE is SUCCESS

So far from various newspaper report it is clear our players are a group of losers.
Like a looser they already know (even before start of the tournament) that they don't have any chance in Asia-cup
They are planning to give a try to win a single match if they could....!!!!

In anywhere anystep of once life if anyone or anygroup of people have this mentality it is impossible for them to make the difference.

Even before start a journey if one know one will fail question is what the point of go for that journey ?

Wonder why our players and team think tank going back 10 years in time and focusing for “Honorable defeats” ? Btw, a defeat is a defeat.....

Don't any of them find it weird to say their goal is to win a single match in a tournament where as compare to other three countries they are getting almost same facilities !!!

Wonder does Virat Kohli will think that he will not be able to smash Malinga brutally cause Malinga is more experienced than him?

Does Chandimal will bat against Irfan Pathan or Shakib or Razzak thinking like a looser even though they played three times more games than him ??!!!

I think all of us know the answers of those questions -- they never will respect a name that highly that may start create problem in their mindset.

Now let us check what we have in our current group of players compare to that of others in Asia Cup 2012:


















BD



SL



PK



IN



Bowling wise top three performers[ODI played] (
Average-Economy-Strike rate):



Razzak [129]
28.21 – 4.50 – 37.50


Shakib [122]
28.68-4.26-40.30


Masrafe [120]
30.86-4.67-39.60



Malinga [115]
25.96-5.08-30.60


Kulasekara [114]
34.10-4.66-43.80


Mathews [71]
33.64-4.68-43.00



Afridi [338]
33.18-4.60-43.20


Gul [102]
27.64-5.06-32.70


Ajmal [60]
24.48-4.14-35.40



Irfan [112]
29.81-5.24-34.00


Praveen [65]
36.02-5.05-42.70


Ashwin [32]
29.56-4.78-37.00



Don't know how many of us are aware of the above statistics. It is clear experience and performance wise our bowling attack is better than India and Sri Lanka in this tournament. Pakistan is also not far ahead.

Our fourth bowler without thinking twice should be Elias Sunny, because we have to understand our strength, we are producing finest SLA bowlers and let us play with our strength.

Regarding the second pacer it should be either Shafiul or Nazmul, acording to the stats Nazmul is consistent with all opponents and Shafiul is horrible against India. But to me as Shafiul not doing that bad in last few series, I think he should continue.

Now let us check where our batters are, here we are listing top six:




















































BD



SL



PK



IN



Player Name
Games played-Average-Strike rate



Tamim
109 – 28.84 – 79.04



Mahela
370 – 33.54 – 77.87



Hafeez
95 – 26.24 – 68.30



Sachin
460 – 44.74 – 86.29



Imrul
48 – 27.97 - 65.16



Dilshan
235 – 35.60 – 86.78



Umar Akmal
58 – 38.04 – 84.16



Gambhir
131 – 40.58 – 86.29



Jahurul
06 – 31.20 - 73.58



Sangakkara
322 – 38.11 – 75.78



Asad Shafiq
28 – 30.64 – 69.82



Kohli
82 – 47.54 – 84.87



Mushfiq
104-25.47-65.53



Chandimal
33 – 41.15 – 77.81



Younis
237 – 32.91 – 75.58



Rohit
77 – 33.14 – 78.77



Shakib
122 – 34.67 – 76.51



Thrimanne
15 – 28.18 – 81.15



Misbah
94 – 42.31 – 75.20



Raina
143 – 34.32 – 91.74



Mahmudullah
76 - 30.53 - 69.01



Mathews
71 – 32.88 – 82.59



Afridi
338 – 23.72 – 113.91



Dhoni
203 – 51.16 – 87.69



We clearly could understand where our weak link is, our batters are underperformed and to compete in international level and getting respect of others we must improve this situation. Effort needed to be taken to improve our current group of players by giving them opportunity to have a batting mentor, it could be someone like Barry Richards or Sir Viv Richards. For long term we must start 2/3 days school cricket tournament.

But for this tournament our team shouldn't get hapless rather they must inspire themselves by looking at the stats of Sri Lanka team. Over the years they never had batters with prolific batting average but because they have the CONFIDENCE and POSITIVE ATTITUDE they overcome this shortage by playing as an unit. Even a 300+ score one could chase down successfully with two fifties, if all others contribute atleast near or around their average.

Thing that is most important to have a successful life is confidence, CONFIDENCE is SUCCESS this we should communicate with our players our team management. Nothing is impossible to a group of fearless confident mind.

Waiting to see a confident team in the field, who only play for win never think anything else, respect opponent but not disrespect themselves.........
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  #2  
Old March 10, 2012, 11:17 PM
Zunaid Zunaid is offline
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Boka - you belie your nick. This is front page material. Would you be willing to spend a bit of time and massage this a bit and allow us to publish this as a front page article?
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  #3  
Old March 10, 2012, 11:19 PM
Zunaid Zunaid is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianLara7
Dude your analysis is flawed.. take out minnows and check the records against top 8 teams of all our bowlers and batters and opposition players and then you will see the true picture.
Don't be such a nattering nabob of negativity. The point he was making is that they are nit as bad as they think they are and should have a higher target thn the low one they have set themselves.
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  #4  
Old March 10, 2012, 11:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zunaid
Boka - you belie your nick.
^^^ That's waht the real deal does!

Excellent analysis Chalak bhai. You are right on the money. You gave us a new look of our cats - perhaps they need to transform themselves into a real deal like you - a tiger.
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  #5  
Old March 12, 2012, 03:34 AM
boka boka is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zunaid
Boka - you belie your nick. This is front page material. Would you be willing to spend a bit of time and massage this a bit and allow us to publish this as a front page article?
As you liked it.... pls let me know

seems we lost the game yesterday because of lack of intelligence in lower order
and bowling Masrafe death over......

BUT as i indicate in my findings our bowling is world standard (if any team score 300+ we have to understand it is scored in 300+ pitch)
if our all batters could contribute to their average in a game we could chase down big totals as well.......
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  #6  
Old March 12, 2012, 04:32 AM
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I think our players didnt play like losers. I think jahurul, tamim and nazim played with some guts out there. So did shakib and nasir. Our bowlers bowled their heart out and fielding was top class. This was as much confidence as we can get

But nothing can be done when your seniormost players play like stupids and give the match away when the team was at a state of domination(we still had shakib left)
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  #7  
Old March 12, 2012, 06:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by playmaker
I think our players didnt play like losers. I think jahurul, tamim and nazim played with some guts out there. So did shakib and nasir. Our bowlers bowled their heart out and fielding was top class. This was as much confidence as we can get

But nothing can be done when your seniormost players play like stupids and give the match away when the team was at a state of domination(we still had shakib left)
Yes, thats right, I do think Bangladesh look more confidence at the moment.

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Old March 12, 2012, 10:52 AM
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Oh wow, this is excellent analysis. Our weakness is batting, bowling can hold their head high. I wonder if you extend the bowling analysis to 5 top bowlers. This is a nice analysis. Thanks.

And yes, BD lacks the killer instinct and professionalism to finish matches off! That should be the first place Law targets. Identifying the problem is 99% of the cure.
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Old March 12, 2012, 11:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zsayeed
Oh wow, this is excellent analysis. Our weakness is batting, bowling can hold their head high. I wonder if you extend the bowling analysis to 5 top bowlers. This is a nice analysis. Thanks.

And yes, BD lacks the killer instinct and professionalism to finish matches off! That should be the first place Law targets. Identifying the problem is 99% of the cure.
I still think we can do it professionaly. At a stage we where 135-5 and it was almost curtains and we brought the equation to 39 from 39 with 5 wickets left!! That was nothing short of professionals, it was just that we had a lower order collapse that got us into trouble at the end.
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Old March 12, 2012, 11:17 AM
zsayeed zsayeed is offline
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^You said it mate. The lower order who are not mugs with the bat failed to play the game as the game required, that is the job required. It wasn't professional. Had it been Australia, they would have finished it off. They are professionals, we play like newbies - amateurs. Steadying the ship at 135-5 is one aspect, and who pulled it off? Shakib. Shak and Nas have more professionalism then the rest of the team combined. For that matter Tamim wasn't professional, he was personal.

By professionalism I mean, if the match is there to win - you will win. You will think of the game and nothing else. Mash wasn't professional, Razzak wasn't. What does the game call for? Do that. What's the job? Do that. Professionalism means you will omit luck from your vocabulary. Lot of people say Tamim was unlucky. Failure at the get go. Professionalism means you are in control of your own actions. Just because you are tired, you can't take a sick day/moment in the field. Imagine a marine in the battle saying I am tired. cf, http://www.espncricinfo.com/asia-cup...ry/557031.html

Either face the facts, or be cursed to repeat the same mistake, as DS put it, how long will we sing this song?
Until we learn. From arrogance, it appears we can't take criticism and destine ourselves to fail.

Anyway, upwards and onwards.
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Old March 12, 2012, 11:20 AM
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Quote:
Like a looser they already know (even before start of the tournament) that they don't have any chance in Asia-cup
Except Shakib. He spoke like a tiger, and he backed it up like a Royal Tiger. Our goal? It's to mothaflipping win. (Not paraphrasing. That's exactly what he said)
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Old March 12, 2012, 06:06 PM
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Statistics can be extremely misleading. I think what is more relevant is the TEAM standings in world cricket as it is the TEAM (and not such and such a player) that wins matches - as we saw with the late order batsmen not being able to finish off the match against Pakistan in game one of the Asia Cup.

In ODIs BD are 9th, Test matches 9th and in T20 not even ranked (and behind Ireland, Zimbabwe and Afghanistan).

BD play WI, Zimbabwe, Pak and NZ, far more than they do the top teams of Eng, Ind, Aus, SA or SL. You would expect the BD individual players' stats to be way better than those of teams who play the top 4 sides more often.

I personally don't think the players look too hard at the statistics anyway. I am not sure anything proves how good players are unless they play against all the teams, under all conditions and away as well as home regularly.
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Old March 12, 2012, 06:26 PM
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ditto coach but the thign is none of the top team wants to play against us!!!
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Old March 12, 2012, 08:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boka
As you liked it.... pls let me know

seems we lost the game yesterday because of lack of intelligence in lower order
and bowling Masrafe death over......

BUT as i indicate in my findings our bowling is world standard (if any team score 300+ we have to understand it is scored in 300+ pitch)
if our all batters could contribute to their average in a game we could chase down big totals as well.......

Annera janen kina jani naa...Boka bhai kintoo amar real Boro Bhai, Taloi Shahev!!
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Old March 12, 2012, 10:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian Pont
Statistics can be extremely misleading. I think what is more relevant is the TEAM standings in world cricket as it is the TEAM (and not such and such a player) that wins matches - as we saw with the late order batsmen not being able to finish off the match against Pakistan in game one of the Asia Cup.

In ODIs BD are 9th, Test matches 9th and in T20 not even ranked (and behind Ireland, Zimbabwe and Afghanistan).

BD play WI, Zimbabwe, Pak and NZ, far more than they do the top teams of Eng, Ind, Aus, SA or SL. You would expect the BD individual players' stats to be way better than those of teams who play the top 4 sides more often.

I personally don't think the players look too hard at the statistics anyway. I am not sure anything proves how good players are unless they play against all the teams, under all conditions and away as well as home regularly.
Well beg to differ slightly coach. If I am reading you right by your definition THAT stat would be misleading as Team standings does not necessarily entail a better probability of win by upper ranked team on any given day. A lower ranked team has more impetus or motivation to do better against top teams and hence the upsets one reads about in newspaper.
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Old March 13, 2012, 03:41 AM
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Ian Pont Ian Pont is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeeshan
Well beg to differ slightly coach. If I am reading you right by your definition THAT stat would be misleading as Team standings does not necessarily entail a better probability of win by upper ranked team on any given day. A lower ranked team has more impetus or motivation to do better against top teams and hence the upsets one reads about in newspaper.
The points table doesn't lie. BD has 8 test points rankings in 9th place. NZ has TEN TIMES more ranking points in 8th place with 83 points. BD are ranked 9th because they cannot be ranked 10th. In ODI's they are much closer to 8th but have slipped back badly since being level with the West Indies around 12 months ago.

Winning the odd game and causing an upset as you say, doesn't impact on the table. Only solid, consistent wins do that, time after time.

My point any way was that statistics tell us little if we are comparing individuals' performances that are made up from 'weaker' opposition. Even the Top 4 matches that are played have teams resting key players against lower placed sides like Zimbabwe and Bangladesh in bilateral series. No Top 4 side plays a full strength squad on a tour of BD or Zim. So with that in mind BD ought to have far better results against those sides than other teams would.

Imagine a 5 match Test and ODI series against India, in India, or SA, Australia, England with them selecting a full strength opposition for example? I am sure we would see those individual statistics being levelled way, way down. Even in Zimbabwe, the Test match and ODI series was lost.

Someone like Ryan ten Doeschate proves how misleading stats can be. Averaging 64 with the bat and 24 with the ball in ODI's makes him, average wise at least, the world's best all rounder. The fact you have Tendo, Mathews, Oram, Hafeez and Jadeja all in the top 10, shows I think how undercooked the all-rounder status is in world cricket right now. There are simply too few great all rounders at this time. Even Kallis, coming up towards 37 years of age, is still in at 5th for example.

My thought was therefore that confidence doesn't come from stats as was implied in this thread. It comes from within - the heart and the head. Stats just show us recent history, and not always the whole story either.
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Old March 13, 2012, 06:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian Pont
The points table doesn't lie. BD has 8 test points rankings in 9th place. NZ has TEN TIMES more ranking points in 8th place with 83 points. BD are ranked 9th because they cannot be ranked 10th. In ODI's they are much closer to 8th but have slipped back badly since being level with the West Indies around 12 months ago.

Winning the odd game and causing an upset as you say, doesn't impact on the table. Only solid, consistent wins do that, time after time.

My point any way was that statistics tell us little if we are comparing individuals' performances that are made up from 'weaker' opposition. Even the Top 4 matches that are played have teams resting key players against lower placed sides like Zimbabwe and Bangladesh in bilateral series. No Top 4 side plays a full strength squad on a tour of BD or Zim. So with that in mind BD ought to have far better results against those sides than other teams would.

Imagine a 5 match Test and ODI series against India, in India, or SA, Australia, England with them selecting a full strength opposition for example? I am sure we would see those individual statistics being levelled way, way down. Even in Zimbabwe, the Test match and ODI series was lost.

Someone like Ryan ten Doeschate proves how misleading stats can be. Averaging 64 with the bat and 24 with the ball in ODI's makes him, average wise at least, the world's best all rounder. The fact you have Tendo, Mathews, Oram, Hafeez and Jadeja all in the top 10, shows I think how undercooked the all-rounder status is in world cricket right now. There are simply too few great all rounders at this time. Even Kallis, coming up towards 37 years of age, is still in at 5th for example.

My thought was therefore that confidence doesn't come from stats as was implied in this thread. It comes from within - the heart and the head. Stats just show us recent history, and not always the whole story either.
Thanks for the bitter truth coach although I couldn't understand why Kallis being 37 years old shouldn't have been in 5th ranking if he has been performing well. Having said that I don't know about his recent bowling performance.
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Old March 13, 2012, 07:04 AM
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lets leave the discussion about stats, this shuta is about confidence
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Old March 13, 2012, 08:16 AM
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Confidence is success, but overconfidence leads to pride ===> FAILURE!!
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Old March 13, 2012, 08:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by firstlane
Thanks for the bitter truth coach although I couldn't understand why Kallis being 37 years old shouldn't have been in 5th ranking if he has been performing well. Having said that I don't know about his recent bowling performance.
He should be if he is that good of course. I was meaning it shows how few top quality all rounders there are in world cricket. If Kallis can be in the top 5 at this stage of his career he must go down as the greatest all rounder of this generation. But he might struggle to make the greatest 20 from the past 30 years.

When you compare this era we are in, it is unfortunately quite poor for world class all rounders.

Clive Lloyd, Imran Khan, Ian Botham, Kapil Dev and Richard Hadlee all played at the same time for instance and I couldn't see any of the current all rounders living in that kind of company back then.

You can only perform against who is available though so it's not the fault of the current players.

Back to confidence though>>>>>> there's a fine line between being confident and being cocky. Most of the world's best players don't need to talk about it either. They simply go out and perform.
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Old March 13, 2012, 09:38 AM
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^^^

I know there may not be great all rounders, but tbh, the quality of frontline batsman and bowler have improved over the years. Nowadays the players are conc. on 1 department because its important that whenever he performs at his respective department, he performs to his fullest
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Old March 13, 2012, 10:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian Pont
The points table doesn't lie. BD has 8 test points rankings in 9th place. NZ has TEN TIMES more ranking points in 8th place with 83 points. BD are ranked 9th because they cannot be ranked 10th. In ODI's they are much closer to 8th but have slipped back badly since being level with the West Indies around 12 months ago.

Winning the odd game and causing an upset as you say, doesn't impact on the table. Only solid, consistent wins do that, time after time.

My point any way was that statistics tell us little if we are comparing individuals' performances that are made up from 'weaker' opposition. Even the Top 4 matches that are played have teams resting key players against lower placed sides like Zimbabwe and Bangladesh in bilateral series. No Top 4 side plays a full strength squad on a tour of BD or Zim. So with that in mind BD ought to have far better results against those sides than other teams would.

Imagine a 5 match Test and ODI series against India, in India, or SA, Australia, England with them selecting a full strength opposition for example? I am sure we would see those individual statistics being levelled way, way down. Even in Zimbabwe, the Test match and ODI series was lost.

Someone like Ryan ten Doeschate proves how misleading stats can be. Averaging 64 with the bat and 24 with the ball in ODI's makes him, average wise at least, the world's best all rounder. The fact you have Tendo, Mathews, Oram, Hafeez and Jadeja all in the top 10, shows I think how undercooked the all-rounder status is in world cricket right now. There are simply too few great all rounders at this time. Even Kallis, coming up towards 37 years of age, is still in at 5th for example.

My thought was therefore that confidence doesn't come from stats as was implied in this thread. It comes from within - the heart and the head. Stats just show us recent history, and not always the whole story either.
Coach, you're just pointing out that a de facto two tier system exists in the international cricket calendar where the lower ranked teams rarely ever get to play the higher ranked teams - at least in Tests. Your suggestion that someone like Shakib (who you're quite clearly referring to) would not have an impressive record in Australia or against India in India is a moot point as he has never been able to play a Test in either. Which is quite surprising considering he's been playing international cricket for about 6 years now.

Is it his fault that he only gets to play low ranked opponents? Is it his fault that he largely plays on low and slow surfaces rather than bouncy or swing conducive pitches? He does what he can with the opposition that is put before him.

In any case his record indicates that at the very least, on the bowling front, he would have done well against stronger opposition. It's not for nothing that he got back-to-back 5 wicket hauls against South Africa in South Africa (back in 2008) and has a 5 wicket haul against India (2010) where he dismissed Sehway, Laxman and Yuvraj Singh, no mugs with the bat against spin. With his exposure to county cricket since then, where he had a tough time with the bat but did quite well with the ball, I'm sure he's developed his ability to bat in pace-friendly conditions too. (But then again, that is also a moot point because it looks like it'll be a while before he plays a Test in pace-friendly conditions)
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Old March 13, 2012, 12:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Navo
Coach, you're just pointing out that a de facto two tier system exists in the international cricket calendar where the lower ranked teams rarely ever get to play the higher ranked teams - at least in Tests. Your suggestion that someone like Shakib (who you're quite clearly referring to) would not have an impressive record in Australia or against India in India is a moot point as he has never been able to play a Test in either. Which is quite surprising considering he's been playing international cricket for about 6 years now.

Is it his fault that he only gets to play low ranked opponents? Is it his fault that he largely plays on low and slow surfaces rather than bouncy or swing conducive pitches? He does what he can with the opposition that is put before him.

In any case his record indicates that at the very least, on the bowling front, he would have done well against stronger opposition. It's not for nothing that he got back-to-back 5 wicket hauls against South Africa in South Africa (back in 2008) and has a 5 wicket haul against India (2010) where he dismissed Sehway, Laxman and Yuvraj Singh, no mugs with the bat against spin. With his exposure to county cricket since then, where he had a tough time with the bat but did quite well with the ball, I'm sure he's developed his ability to bat in pace-friendly conditions too. (But then again, that is also a moot point because it looks like it'll be a while before he plays a Test in pace-friendly conditions)
Great post!
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Old March 13, 2012, 01:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Navo
Coach, you're just pointing out that a de facto two tier system exists in the international cricket calendar where the lower ranked teams rarely ever get to play the higher ranked teams - at least in Tests. Your suggestion that someone like Shakib (who you're quite clearly referring to) would not have an impressive record in Australia or against India in India is a moot point as he has never been able to play a Test in either. Which is quite surprising considering he's been playing international cricket for about 6 years now.

Is it his fault that he only gets to play low ranked opponents? Is it his fault that he largely plays on low and slow surfaces rather than bouncy or swing conducive pitches? He does what he can with the opposition that is put before him.

In any case his record indicates that at the very least, on the bowling front, he would have done well against stronger opposition. It's not for nothing that he got back-to-back 5 wicket hauls against South Africa in South Africa (back in 2008) and has a 5 wicket haul against India (2010) where he dismissed Sehway, Laxman and Yuvraj Singh, no mugs with the bat against spin. With his exposure to county cricket since then, where he had a tough time with the bat but did quite well with the ball, I'm sure he's developed his ability to bat in pace-friendly conditions too. (But then again, that is also a moot point because it looks like it'll be a while before he plays a Test in pace-friendly conditions)
I was not referring to Shakib, otherwise I would have mentioned him! I mentioned Kallis specifically for a reason, and earlier ten Doeschate and others as all rounders that were there due to there being not many quality all rounders. I did not mention Shakib and nor was I referring to him.

Shakib is clearly Bangladesh's only current world class cricketer and his ranking points prove he is the second best behind Shane Watson at this time. You are quite right that players can only be rated against others around them. This was indeed my point. If we had an even playing field, where everyone played each other home and away with full squads, then I am sure we would see different results at the top of the listings. ten Doeschate's ODI record for example, includes a huge number of matches against sides like Scotland, Ireland, Bermuda, Canada and Namibia.

But Shakib is a symbol of what can be possible for Bangladesh cricketers. It would indeed be great if he could play regularly against the top sides in testing conditions like Watson and Kallis do. Shakib is good enough to, sadly the team isn't - and that is not his fault.
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Old March 13, 2012, 02:12 PM
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Nice analysis Boka. I think even without stats we all agreed on several occasions, that it's our bowlers for whom we won most of the matches that we won. Batting is our weakness. Regarding confidence and believing to win... We started our cricket with that attitude, even with much lower abilities than the present time. That was the reason we won a few matches against top teams even with much weaker team. But unfortunately we lost that attitude during JS tenure. I'm not inducing a discussion n JS here, but that's a well known fact and needs no further discussion. It was all done in the name of truth, but sometimes, you need to know the truth and however un realistic it might sound, you must play Aus to win against them, only then you have a chance of winning, or else you lose like a loser.

Thanks for the thread and I'm worried that Law won't be able to do much on this front either. It needs some DW or a Subcontinental mentality to dream such unrealistic dreams, to keep up the confidence. The realistic coaches who are too real like most Ausies, are unable to bring in that confidence.
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