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  #26  
Old September 26, 2012, 11:31 PM
Zunaid Zunaid is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jadukor
I disagree Z bhai. Truly great players can play well in all formats like Tendulkar, Hussey, Kallis etc but look at the likes of Imran Nazir or Raina or Afridi who become champions in T-20 but cannot succeed in Test cricket. T-20 amplifies the need for certain skills like speed and brute force whereas finesse, concentration takes a back seat.

Our players are not power hitters of the ball like Pakistan or India. We are more like the Sri Lankans who rely on skill and timing rather than brute force. Also, we do not have the mental toughness to survive under pressure for long sessions. This is why our best format has been the 50 overs game which asks for mid range concentration levels and a mid range shot making ability.
You mean midrange* skills?

*midrange = mediocre
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  #27  
Old September 26, 2012, 11:35 PM
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Jadukor Jadukor is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zunaid
You mean midrange* skills?

*midrange = mediocre
Didn't want to admit it myself hahaha
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  #28  
Old September 26, 2012, 11:45 PM
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I do believe that more T-20 will lead to betters results in ODI for us. I think T-20 allows our players to express themselves and expands the range of shots they have. At the same time it instills belief that even whacking good bowlers around (e.g Gul) is possible on a good pitch. Lastly T-20 formats make our players get used to high pressure situations and all these reasons above should make it easier for our batters to succeed in the 50 overs format where the demand is much less from individuals (although home conditions would play a big factor with current bowling resources)
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  #29  
Old September 26, 2012, 11:50 PM
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^^ If that was the case, then we'd see more quality T20 players transforming into good Test players rather than the other way around. Suresh Raina is an example of how, despite having the skills to do well in T20s, it hasn't transitioned neatly into the Test arena.

In some ways it could be argued that Tests and T20s require the most skill, objectively speaking. I think success in T20s requires a certain guile, along with skill, that seems to be beyond most of our players. A bowler, in his 4 overs, has to oscillate rapidly between bowling aggressively and bowling with the aim of containing runs. Unlike in ODIs and Tests, the whole momentum of the opposition's batting innings can be broken with a maiden or 1-run over - even if no wickets are taken. Unlike in Tests and ODIs, a batsman is considered to be 'getting their eye in' when they are scoring at a run-a-ball at the beginning of an innings. Fielding is more important than ever. How much these skills are transferable is another question altogether.

In terms of our success, T20s by nature don't have middle overs like an ODI and that is where we often win matches! In many instances when we've won matches, we've been able to apply a stranglehold on the opposition with our SLAs during this period. It's how we managed to defend scores of 220-230 or restrict the opposition to the same or less.
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  #30  
Old September 26, 2012, 11:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zunaid
Why can we not admit it? We are just not good enough.

With the exception of one or two players, the team is packed with mediocre players and pipeline doesn't look promising. With the exception of just a few players, the team is full of also-rans and the pipeline looks bleak.

We are just not a very capable team - be it in T20s, ODIs, or Tests. How else have we been losing on a regular basis to associate teams during the run up to this world cup? Yeah, we can beat the top 8 once in a while but unless our losses to the associates are considered upsets, there is nothing for us to be proud of.

Am I pessimistic? Yes, partially. I have noticed a certain regression in team. Granted we've had ups and downs but the projection was always upwards. We were moving up - albeit not as fast as I would have liked but we were.

Ever since the WC we seem to have been on a downward trajectory. Only the skills of Shakib and Tamim with the occasional contributions by a few others have given us some periods of joy. The rest of the time, it has been painful to watch the mediocrity and the way this mediocrity is celebrated.

Our sights should be set forward on the Kiwis and the Windies and not behind us. At this stage, beating the likes of AFG and IRL should be a given, no matter how quickly they are developing and how strong they are now. If we do not, the implications is that not only are we not developing, we are regressing.

Look at where the team stands now.

We really only have Tamim and Shakib. Mushy seems to be in a very long off-form patch. Nasir hasn't quite matured enough to bring real value. Zia is unTested (pun intended). All the other batsmen are just water boys. We have no one else a power hitter. We have no one else who can stay the course. The team hasn't yet mastered the simple skill of running between the wickets. They get bogged down and thy hit out (and get out) under pressure.

As for bowlers, the picture isn't rosy either. Rubel is missed. Mash is getting old (while he is still young) and doesn't have the brains to bowl at the death. All the remaining pacers are that in name only. Let's face it - the bowling is one-dimensional. We have a slew of SLAs who are as wont to give gifts (ala Razzak) as to take wickets (ala Shakib). We have not variety - no offspinner, no leg spinner, and no real fast bowler.

The biggest issue I see is the bipolar disease of complacency and lack of self worth. This is quite evidence from the garbage that spews from the mouths of our cricketers when they are interviewed. They are complacent enough to not work professionally. They are complacent enough to be satisfied celebrating scraping through a series with an associate. They have a serious case of " we are not good enough-itis". If you do not think you are good enough, you will never be good enough. I do not see a professionalism - I do not see a professional work ethic. All I see is a bunch of overpaid crybabies chaperoned by a bunch of overpaid guardians who may not be doing the job they need to be doing. I will hold off on commenting on RP for now but in all other areas the team seem to have denatured - bowling, fielding, batting, cricket sense et al.

Ok, time to pack and catch a plane later today...

/RANT OFF
I am not with u that.....we r not good enough.....if u look around ....u will see we have talent.....we r not getting it...just becas we r so narvous at the right moment.....except only shakib. but i belive, if we can make some changes in the team ...we will do much better......coming up wi series u will see the differance....anamul, mominul, anam jr.....they will be in the squad.....abul need to go....he still vir..n. so, we will come back strongly.....just one more thing....musy gotta go....sakib need to be back...just watch after that.....we r bangali...we can do anything in this world where other people can.....
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  #31  
Old September 26, 2012, 11:59 PM
Dilscoop Dilscoop is offline
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^ If only our batsmen avg. like the amount of dots and periods in that post..
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  #32  
Old September 27, 2012, 03:24 AM
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Nice post Zunaid chachchu. I completely agree with you. Lemme go get some stats of our win/loss ratio over the last 5-10 yrs.
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  #33  
Old September 27, 2012, 03:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SS
Dr. Z great article and Shakib also concur with you...Great mind things alike

http://www.prothom-alo.com/detail/da...27/news/293001
SS bhai, nice article. Shakib was spot on. We have no competition for palces. Apart from Shahadat and Abul fighting for the ame place, no one else has a doppleganger who will take their place if they fail. This pressure to perform or get axed makes players become betetr and try harder. The way the team is, players think I'll stay in team forver now that I am in national team. Kar shahosh amar jayga nibey ?
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  #34  
Old September 27, 2012, 08:14 AM
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AsifTheManRahman AsifTheManRahman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zunaid
Anybody just as disgusted as Shakib and I am? I know Atimar is. Does anyone agree that we have actually regressed the past year or so?
I'm beyond disgusted and have been for a while now. But I might throw up if I start.

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  #35  
Old September 27, 2012, 08:43 AM
Mr.Cricket Mr.Cricket is offline
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Shakib ek God gifted allrounder. Amader jodo r 2 ta shakib thakto, tahole amra pakistaner cheye shoktishali team thaktam.

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  #36  
Old September 27, 2012, 08:51 AM
SS SS is offline
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We can discuss, strategize, analyze and also find the root cause, but we won't be able to plan, execute or monitor the progress or even implement our strategies. BC got very talented people who are way more over qualified than the management running the BCB. Unfortunately, we are here just to read, publish the news and discuss about it. I am not sure how much we can improvize or influence BCB thought process, planning process and overall implementation process. We discussed in several thread before about the analysis of our overall failure. But the discussion just remained within us. Unfortunately, this is becoming like our living room discussion about Bangladesh where we spend so much time thinking about the country but can not do anything due to complexity involved in the country to execute our well thought out plan.
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  #37  
Old September 27, 2012, 09:01 AM
SS SS is offline
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Shakib is different and his professionalisms have improved more due to his overseas experience and interactions with foreign world class players, coaches and team management
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  #38  
Old September 27, 2012, 09:05 AM
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I watched a t20 cup related program yesterday on banglavision "superover"
The guest was former cricketer Rakibul Hasan.
He said something interestingvthat i somewhat agree.
He said to the fans to not get too disheartened because T20 is not the real cricket , its mainly to raise money and entertain people.
He said he wants to see BD getting good resuls in ODIs and Tests.
That would prove if we r improving or not.

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  #39  
Old September 27, 2012, 09:20 AM
Mr.Cricket Mr.Cricket is offline
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If t2o wasn't real cricket, then it wouldn't be a part of cricket at all. Icc is not gonna stop promoting cricket just because bangladesh isn't good team.

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  #40  
Old September 27, 2012, 10:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jadukor
T-20 amplifies the need for certain skills like speed and brute force whereas finesse, concentration takes a back seat.

Our players are not power hitters of the ball like Pakistan or India...
t20 is such a power game. You need to hit 4 or 6 in atleast 30-40 of the 120 deliveries you get. this intensity is just beyond the physical capacity of our current team (there is only so much Shakib/Tamim can do)... I doubt if they can even do that against our u-19 team consistently...

when you see Mccullum coming down the track against Mash and playing a tennis shot for 6.... and our batsmen getting caught at mid-on... it says it all...
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  #41  
Old September 27, 2012, 10:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by simon
He said to the fans to not get too disheartened because T20 is not the real cricket
well saying its not 'real' cricket is a bit excessive. We may not like it cuz we are horrible.. but I am sure its very real for a lot of cricketers ...
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  #42  
Old September 27, 2012, 10:28 AM
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We were never good at T20s and we should admit it. We lost to Zim, Scotland, Netherland, T&T, IRE and got smacked by NZ and Pak.

But I don't agree our failure is due to lack of power-hitters. Yes, our general population might not be as strong as other cricketing nations. I can't compare myself with the Ind/Pak players here in USA and I admit that they have more power. But none of our national team players lacks powers. Shakib, TI, Mushy, Zia, Mash can all hit the ball out of the park at will.

Tamim had the biggest six in SLPL. Mushy can sweep the ball for six as we saw in SLPL and also against Ajmal. Shakib can just hoick the ball for six. Mushy's dropped catch was just mistiming and so was Nazir's drop by Abul. Not everyone has to be Watson, Gayle, Yusuf Pathan, McCullum, Dhoni or Afridi. You can be Kohli, Jayawardene, Amla, Hafeez and still be very good T20 players.
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  #43  
Old September 27, 2012, 10:41 AM
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I agree we have power hitters, so the strength is not the problem, but I think it is the energy that most of our players are lacking in to properly play t20. You have to constantly score runs, 4's if not 6's, 3's if not 4's or 2's if not 3's.
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  #44  
Old September 27, 2012, 10:42 AM
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mufi bhai, as I said its about hitting 30-40 of them in an innings. Rotating the strike is just not good enough in t20.

Kohli, Jayawardene, Sangakara, Amla (Shakib should be in this list too) are VERY technically correct batsmen... they dont need to hit it hard... they can consistently find the gap for a boundary even if all the 9 fielders are standing on the ropes. actually this is even a tougher ask from our batsmen...
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  #45  
Old September 27, 2012, 11:00 AM
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It's the attitude of our players..They never want.to take that extra step. They take things for granted.. If you go through Shak's recent interview you'll know what I am talking about.

If they don't change their mindset, they can never improve. It's not their ability, its their sluggishness that is holding us back. They need some serious whipping.
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  #46  
Old September 27, 2012, 11:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by simon
I watched a t20 cup related program yesterday on banglavision "superover"
The guest was former cricketer Rakibul Hasan.
He said something interestingvthat i somewhat agree.
He said to the fans to not get too disheartened because T20 is not the real cricket , its mainly to raise money and entertain people.
He said he wants to see BD getting good resuls in ODIs and Tests.
That would prove if we r improving or not.

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This is a prime example of what's wrong with Bangladesh cricket. No one - not even Shakib - started taking T20s seriously until it was already too late. Why are we just "beginning to learn" how to play this format when it's been around for so long? "T20 to fun khela, ashol cricket na"...tomare ki BCB mashe mashe beton dey fun korar jonno? In the meantime, other teams, both ranked above and below us, have improved leaps and bounds and are way ahead of us. Any ICC approved and run version of the sport is real cricket and we absolutely can't afford to neglect a certain format, especially when we haven't done jack in the other two and our status as a cricketing nation is constantly under scrutiny. Where does all this complacency come from? From idiocy, that's where.

Raqibul Hasan is the epitome of Bangladeshi inferiority complex, a major contributor to our failures, and not just in cricket. This is the same guy who said we can't compete in T20s because we're not white . It's the same guy who can't tell the difference between Mohammad Shahzada and Shahadat Hossain, yet opens his mouth at "expert" panel discussions on TV during breaks in cricket matches. These are the reasons why I don't like and can't stand him, not because he was a sissy with the bat because let's face it - every uncle from the 70's, 80's and 90's except for Atahar Ali Khan was. His comments are also representative of denial and the excuse culture so typical of Bangladeshis and Bangladesh, both major hindrances to any sort of development/progress.

All of a sudden there's a sport that requires guts, quick thinking and aggression and our uncles are labeling it as "not real cricket" because they can't (or wouldn't be able to) take the heat. Even the word pathetic doesn't quite cut it.
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  #47  
Old September 27, 2012, 11:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mufi_02
We were never good at T20s and we should admit it. We lost to Zim, Scotland, Netherland, T&T, IRE and got smacked by NZ and Pak.

But I don't agree our failure is due to lack of power-hitters. Yes, our general population might not be as strong as other cricketing nations. I can't compare myself with the Ind/Pak players here in USA and I admit that they have more power. But none of our national team players lacks powers. Shakib, TI, Mushy, Zia, Mash can all hit the ball out of the park at will.

Tamim had the biggest six in SLPL. Mushy can sweep the ball for six as we saw in SLPL and also against Ajmal. Shakib can just hoick the ball for six. Mushy's dropped catch was just mistiming and so was Nazir's drop by Abul. Not everyone has to be Watson, Gayle, Yusuf Pathan, McCullum, Dhoni or Afridi. You can be Kohli, Jayawardene, Amla, Hafeez and still be very good T20 players.
very much agree bro.
Is Kalam or Imran Nazir or Jayawerdene or Dilshan or Sehwag or Kakmal are exceptionally big or strong like Gayle,Pathan,PollardWatson ?
No, they aren't.
I think it's more about the timing & skill which tamim & Sakib have.
Rest of our players lack power hitting skills & miss time it.
It's also about placement, good players will play shots in the air but even if it doesn't clear the boundary it will drop in safe places & go for a 4 .
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  #48  
Old September 27, 2012, 01:49 PM
prtikul prtikul is offline
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I think, this is the best Bangladeshi team in terms of talent,Yes they are weak as compared to other teams but team is on the right path. I don't mind when team looses after showing respectable performance.Scoring 176 runs against quality opposition like Pakistani is by no means an easy feat, Also performance in t20 games shouldn't be taken that seriously. By the way, you are turning into good Odi side at home conditions,just need to groom new talent.
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  #49  
Old September 29, 2012, 03:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by prtikul
I think, this is the best Bangladeshi team in terms of talent,Yes they are weak as compared to other teams but team is on the right path. I don't mind when team looses after showing respectable performance.Scoring 176 runs against quality opposition like Pakistani is by no means an easy feat, Also performance in t20 games shouldn't be taken that seriously. By the way, you are turning into good Odi side at home conditions,just need to groom new talent.
Welcome to BC

While I agree with you comment, though except the T20 part!

T20 is the future of cricket - OD cricket might not last next 20 years or so.
Only T20 will survive as fans are losing interests in OD cricket IMHO.

Test cricket will be only "ELIT's" sports - may be the top six will play to keep the history and its legacy!
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  #50  
Old September 29, 2012, 05:07 AM
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With two new balls .... we are desperately in need of a good fast bowler. Ekta Raoch, Ameer, Malinga type player hoiley we would have been consistent. Finally take your catches. Why are you letting history slip through your fingers ever time? How many crucial catches we have dropped in every game? Regulation ones? We have concentration problem. BK, why do they lose concentration? Can you explain again for everyone?
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