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  #226  
Old November 7, 2012, 01:54 PM
DMan DMan is offline
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Right now we've got unproven spinners in all formats of the game. We've only got Narine who hasn't made his name across all formats of the game yet.
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  #227  
Old November 7, 2012, 02:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kalpurush
I thought your sptinners are much better than India and SL at the moment!
SL? Herath is a far more proven bowler in Tests than WI's lead spinner Narine.
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  #228  
Old November 7, 2012, 02:05 PM
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^ @ Tiger444, I do agree to what you are saying. But Enamul and Saqlain are yet to prove their merits in the international arena. And that's why I've said that.

Vettori and Swann are top class spinners and good turner of the ball. Haven't seen Saqlain and Enamul play but my assumption is they are not that great. They are very much handy in Our region where the pitch plays a great role for a Spinner's success. Our spinners are clueless in green surface except Shakib..But Swann and Vettori are well tested in conditions where there aren't much help for the spinners.

Our spinners are good and getting very competitive but don't see them effective outside sub continent....
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  #229  
Old November 7, 2012, 02:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roman
^ @ Tiger444, I do agree to what you are saying. But Enamul and Saqlain are yet to prove their merits in the international arena. And that's why I've said that.

Vettori and Swann are top class spinners and good turner of the ball. Haven't seen Saqlain and Enamul play but my assumption is they are not that great. They are very much handy in Our region where the pitch plays a great role for a Spinner's success. Our spinners are clueless in green surface except Shakib..But Swann and Vettori are well tested in conditions where there aren't much help for the spinners.

Our spinners are good and getting very competitive but don't see them effective outside sub continent....
No you misunderstood me bhai. I'm not comparing Vettori and Swann to Enamul and Saqlain. That would be preposterous of me. Rather I am comparing the likes of Tredwell, Hira, Patel, Beer, Doherty and Panesar to Enamul and Saqlain. My point is that our guys would give a run for their money against the other team's back up spinners. That's what I'm trying to say.
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  #230  
Old November 7, 2012, 02:22 PM
DMan DMan is offline
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I think by now every team has a popular or star spinner that each team is known for. You guys can compare the star spinners to see which side is leading spinners in cricket.

1. Pakistan - Ajmal
2. Bangladesh - Shakib
3. Sri Lanka - Herath
4. India - Ashwin
5. West Indies - Narine
6. England - Swann
7. SA - Tahir
8. Aus - Doherty
9. NZ - Vettori
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  #231  
Old November 7, 2012, 02:29 PM
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Nayeem's avg in FC for last 13 games is 67+ with 5 's

Nayeem's avg for his new FC team Rangpur is 111+ with 3 hundred..no 50

impressive numbers

He is surely in the XI and probably gonna bat at 4.
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  #232  
Old November 7, 2012, 02:31 PM
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Tiger 444, I get what u mean bhai. I was just pointing out how good those 2 are..

Our backup spinners are better than many other team's backup. No doubt. But our backup spinners are yet to become that good that they can easily get into other team's playing XI. They are getting better but its very early to say that they are capable of doing so. That's the point I was trying to make to Al Furqan when he said our #4,5 can get into other team's playing eleven..But believe me I will be more than happy to be proven wrong
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  #233  
Old November 7, 2012, 02:57 PM
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Tiger Manc Tiger Manc is offline
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I think it's very generous to rank our spinners at #2. I would have them joint 6th with England.

Tamim could get into the England and Australia teams right now. He's certainly better than Cowan, Compton and Root. Shakib could get into the South Africa and Australia teams.
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  #234  
Old November 7, 2012, 03:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nadim 98
Nayeem's avg in FC for last 13 games is 67+ with 5 's

Nayeem's avg for his new FC team Rangpur is 111+ with 3 hundred..no 50

impressive numbers

He is surely in the XI and probably gonna bat at 4.
I'm sure those 13 games are over w couple of seasons. The problem with Naeem is he's never had a full uninterrupted season for a while as he gets called up for tours during the NCL which isn't helpful. If memory serves me right he also averages 40+ for the national team since 2010. As I mentioned in a previous post, he's one of two people to score over 2,000 first class runs with an average above 40, Tamim is the other. So he's certainly got the stats going for him.
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  #235  
Old November 7, 2012, 03:29 PM
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Ian Pont Ian Pont is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiger Manc
I think it's very generous to rank our spinners at #2. I would have them joint 6th with England.

Tamim could get into the England and Australia teams right now. He's certainly better than Cowan, Compton and Root. Shakib could get into the South Africa and Australia teams.
Tamim's Test average at 38 is not the highest to be honest and is certainly way less than many established players such as Strauss (plus 40), Trott (plus 50), Cook (47) and Bell (46) who have all batted at the top for England recently. The England fixtures against the top 4 countries in full 5 Test match series, are arguably far more tricky than Bangladesh's.

Shakib's batting average at Test level is 34 batting and 31 bowling. Kallis (56 bat average and 32 bowling) and Watson (37 bat ave and 29 bowling) Ashwin (39 batting and 26 bowling) have far superior stats - again against mostly top 4 teams regularly.

Even spinners Swann (29 bowling average), Harbajhan (32 bowling average) - not even in India's team atm and Ajmal (27 bowling average), are stand alone spinners who are game changers.

I think Shakib is a talented cricketer, no doubt about that. Tamim had still some way to go to be classified as 'world class' though.

We will never know how Shakib would perform in another country's team in different conditions and expectations of winning. It's all speculation.

On the basis that most believe Shakib (and a lesser extent Tamim) to be truly world class, I would expect some consistently outstanding performances at home against West Indies in Test matches.
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  #236  
Old November 7, 2012, 03:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian Pont
I would expect some consistently outstanding performances at home against West Indies in Test matches.
If ^^^ happens, Tigers might see their 2nd test win!



of course, with the help of Naeem, Enam Jr etc.
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  #237  
Old November 7, 2012, 03:48 PM
Equinox Equinox is offline
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Tamim had one very bad series against Pakistan recently which resulted in his average suffering. Otherwise, he is a 40 avg. Test batsman no question. Also it'll be interesting to see how the likes of Cook and Bell fare in India. Bell so far averages just under 30 in Asia while his new captain averages around the 40 mark. Tamim, on the other hand, has managed to do much better in conditions alien to him - averaging 46.64 away from the subcontinent.

As for Shakib there is no doubt that he'd dislodge the likes of Tahir, Lyon, Narine, Vettori from their respective teams and probably even fill the vacant number 6 slot of the Indian team. In fact I can't think of a single team that wouldn't want a Shakib Al Hasan in their Test XI at the moment.
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  #238  
Old November 7, 2012, 03:54 PM
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mufi_02 mufi_02 is offline
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Good post Ian. England batting is strong and even Matt Prior has high average. Tamim and Shakib's average are below par for established players. In modern era, one have to average 40+ to be considered noteworthy and some even scores 50+ like Amla and Trott. But considering how England are gambling with Bairstow, Ravi Bopara, and even Samit Patel now, I think TI and Shak can take the spot for these players. But as you said, its really hard to predict how they "would perform in another country's team in different conditions and expectations of winning"

It is time for TI and Shak to prove their mettle. I am hoping they would do something big. TI is in great form once again and Shakib always delivers.
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  #239  
Old November 7, 2012, 05:07 PM
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Ian Pont Ian Pont is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mufi_02
Good post Ian. England batting is strong and even Matt Prior has high average. Tamim and Shakib's average are below par for established players. In modern era, one have to average 40+ to be considered noteworthy and some even scores 50+ like Amla and Trott. But considering how England are gambling with Bairstow, Ravi Bopara, and even Samit Patel now, I think TI and Shak can take the spot for these players. But as you said, its really hard to predict how they "would perform in another country's team in different conditions and expectations of winning"

It is time for TI and Shak to prove their mettle. I am hoping they would do something big. TI is in great form once again and Shakib always delivers.
I think Compton may prove himself in time, as an aside.. England 'experimenting' I feel due to KP's absence... But Trott, Bell, KP, Cook, Bairstow, Prior plus a new 'opener' such as Compton is a Test top 7 batting line up with Broad batting at 8. I don't feel Patel or Bopara quite good enough for England Top 6 regularly at this time.

The time for TI and SAH to prove their mettle has long since gone, so I expect them to have a brilliant series at home against the West Indies ranked 7th.

For all the talk and hoping, if this is not a close series then it means BD hasn't moved forward in the last 2 years or so.
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  #240  
Old November 7, 2012, 06:00 PM
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al Furqaan al Furqaan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian Pont
Tamim's Test average at 38 is not the highest to be honest and is certainly way less than many established players such as Strauss (plus 40), Trott (plus 50), Cook (47) and Bell (46) who have all batted at the top for England recently. The England fixtures against the top 4 countries in full 5 Test match series, are arguably far more tricky than Bangladesh's.

Shakib's batting average at Test level is 34 batting and 31 bowling. Kallis (56 bat average and 32 bowling) and Watson (37 bat ave and 29 bowling) Ashwin (39 batting and 26 bowling) have far superior stats - again against mostly top 4 teams regularly.

Even spinners Swann (29 bowling average), Harbajhan (32 bowling average) - not even in India's team atm and Ajmal (27 bowling average), are stand alone spinners who are game changers.

I think Shakib is a talented cricketer, no doubt about that. Tamim had still some way to go to be classified as 'world class' though.

We will never know how Shakib would perform in another country's team in different conditions and expectations of winning. It's all speculation.

On the basis that most believe Shakib (and a lesser extent Tamim) to be truly world class, I would expect some consistently outstanding performances at home against West Indies in Test matches.
I'm a firm believer that number's don't lie, but I also believe that player's sometimes underperform stats wise. Tamim might average 38, but he's got 45 talent and skill right now. If he continues to mature he could be a 50 bat. I'm sure in that 38 average he's gotten more than his fair share of rough decisions (that PAK series last year where he was given out caught off the helmet, coincidentally when he was looking in sublime touch) probably brought his average down a couple of points (he likely woulda scored at least 75 that day).
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  #241  
Old November 7, 2012, 06:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian Pont
I think Compton may prove himself in time, as an aside.. England 'experimenting' I feel due to KP's absence... But Trott, Bell, KP, Cook, Bairstow, Prior plus a new 'opener' such as Compton is a Test top 7 batting line up with Broad batting at 8. I don't feel Patel or Bopara quite good enough for England Top 6 regularly at this time.

The time for TI and SAH to prove their mettle has long since gone, so I expect them to have a brilliant series at home against the West Indies ranked 7th.

For all the talk and hoping, if this is not a close series then it means BD hasn't moved forward in the last 2 years or so.
Agreed 100%. Despite the WI being a good team, they are still #7 and also have less than 100 ranking points. Plus we're playing at home so that gives us even more of an advantage. If we cannot even give them a fight than it is very worrisome. No excuses, we need to fight tooth and nail in both the Test matches.
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  #242  
Old November 8, 2012, 12:16 AM
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The fact that Tamim has the highest average in the test format for Bangladesh is huge itself. Keep in mind the age he started playing. He had very little experience and he was far from a test batsman. Remember? we could barely picture him playing test cricket back than. He was a hard hitter batsman to begin with. he was taken in the squad because selectors had no option. From that Tamim came a long way and in 2010 he was the best test opener in the world!. After that, we didnt play for a long time and thats why his justification of talent did not progress further. If he played the same number of tests as others like Cook, Strauss... I am sure his average would have been much higher than it is.

Having said that, the others have been dissapointing. Specially Mushy. by now, you would expect an average of 35+ by now.
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  #243  
Old November 8, 2012, 12:29 AM
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DS:

The three-day warm-up match between the visiting West Indies and BCB XI which was scheduled to begin from Thursday was called off due to a wet outfield.
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  #244  
Old November 8, 2012, 12:59 AM
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Why can't they move the practice match to Fatullah or the NCA ground?

I just hope the BCB doesn't allow Sammy and his men to practice on the match wicket again like they did with NZ.
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  #245  
Old November 8, 2012, 01:16 AM
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^^ Only if they can produce the same result, then yes.
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  #246  
Old November 8, 2012, 01:17 AM
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Very bad move to call off the practice match. It was the only chance for the some young talented boys to prove themselves before the real series. Now I don't think that the selectors would take the risk to bring any new face for the upcoming series.
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  #247  
Old November 8, 2012, 01:34 AM
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It is more of a bad news to them than to us.
They will be going to the first test match without any recent playing knowledge of local conditions and will come off rusty.

But then again, we are going to make a mess of that opportunity by fielding off form players.
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  #248  
Old November 8, 2012, 01:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WarWolf
Very bad move to call off the practice match. It was the only chance for the some young talented boys to prove themselves before the real series. Now I don't think that the selectors would take the risk to bring any new face for the upcoming series.
i hope they still back the youngsters, i reckon it's our best chance, better technique, better consistency, better temperament, better talent. we last played a test in december of last year, that's a while ago and some players have developed a bit more since then and are more ready.
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  #249  
Old November 8, 2012, 01:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rinathq
The fact that Tamim has the highest average in the test format for Bangladesh is huge itself. Keep in mind the age he started playing. He had very little experience and he was far from a test batsman. Remember? we could barely picture him playing test cricket back than. He was a hard hitter batsman to begin with. he was taken in the squad because selectors had no option. From that Tamim came a long way and in 2010 he was the best test opener in the world!. After that, we didnt play for a long time and thats why his justification of talent did not progress further. If he played the same number of tests as others like Cook, Strauss... I am sure his average would have been much higher than it is.

Having said that, the others have been dissapointing. Specially Mushy. by now, you would expect an average of 35+ by now.
I echo your thoughts!
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  #250  
Old November 8, 2012, 03:00 AM
little_master little_master is offline
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Shohag Gazi, Abul Hasan get maiden call-ups
ESPNcricinfo staff
November 8, 2012

Offspinner Sohag Gazi and medium-pacer Abul Hasan have been selected in Bangladesh's Test squad for the first time, for the opening fixture of the home series against West Indies in Mirpur from November 13.

Hasan, a 20-year-old fast bowler from Sylhet, has played four Twenty20 internationals for Bangladesh this year. In six first-class games, he's taken eight wickets at 43.37 apiece. Gazi, 21, has 87 wickets at an average of 24 from 18 first-class games for Barisal.

Squad: Mushfiqur Rahim (capt), Mahmudullah (vc), Tamim Iqbal, Junaid Siddique, Shahriar Nafees, Shakib Al Hasan, Naeem Islam, Nazimuddin, Nasir Hossain, Elias Sunny, Shahadat Hossain, Rubel Hossain, Abul Hasan, Shohag Gazi.

Link
----
So, no Enamul Jr. or Anamul Haque. Why Abul Hasan?? Is he better than Shafiul?
Shohag Gazi is getting test cap for sure !?!
Mahmudullah or Naeem which one to be in XI?

Last edited by little_master; November 8, 2012 at 04:01 AM..
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