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  #1  
Old September 17, 2014, 09:44 AM
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mufi_02 mufi_02 is offline
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Default Is it BCB or the players?

BCB is incompetent at many levels. Domestic league is a farce and there is no goal to improve it. The current form has many roots in BCB's actions or the lack of it.

But is it fair to only blame the board? The players do have adequate resources in terms of coaching staff, gym, training facilities. Most of the player in the current squad have been playing cricket at top level for more than 5 years. But they keep on making the same mistakes, fall for same traps, and shows no sign of learning. For how many years is Kayes poking at outside delivery, Riyad failing to provide clutch innings, Tamim throwing it away after a good start?

Beside Shakib/Mushy (batting only), we don't have any player that have gradually improved the game over the years. All of them starts with a bang and then slowly fades away (Gazi, ESunny, Nasir etc). This shows the lack of urgency to constantly push for improvement.

Zim/Ire/Afg have less resources than us. They are paid less than us. They don't have full time coaching staff like us. Their domestic is almost nonexistent (exception IRE:county) but they are almost at par with us.

So yes, while the board has no visions and is very inept, the current players are the main culprit in my opinion. Despite the resources, wealth and celebrity status they have failed to deliver. They have failed to even meet the lowest of expectations.
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  #2  
Old September 17, 2014, 10:01 AM
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Naah... kesto betayee choor.

Lets continue to solely blame BCB. Lets stay with the flow.
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  #3  
Old September 17, 2014, 11:44 AM
SS SS is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mufi_02
BCB is incompetent at many levels. Domestic league is a farce and there is no goal to improve it. The current form has many roots in BCB's actions or the lack of it.

But is it fair to only blame the board? The players do have adequate resources in terms of coaching staff, gym, training facilities. Most of the player in the current squad have been playing cricket at top level for more than 5 years. But they keep on making the same mistakes, fall for same traps, and shows no sign of learning. For how many years is Kayes poking at outside delivery, Riyad failing to provide clutch innings, Tamim throwing it away after a good start?

Beside Shakib/Mushy (batting only), we don't have any player that have gradually improved the game over the years. All of them starts with a bang and then slowly fades away (Gazi, ESunny, Nasir etc). This shows the lack of urgency to constantly push for improvement.

Zim/Ire/Afg have less resources than us. They are paid less than us. They don't have full time coaching staff like us. Their domestic is almost nonexistent (exception IRE:county) but they are almost at par with us.

So yes, while the board has no visions and is very inept, the current players are the main culprit in my opinion. Despite the resources, wealth and celebrity status they have failed to deliver. They have failed to even meet the lowest of expectations.
Timely thread thanks for opening but hope it stays open till the problem is fixed, to my opinion it's both. We can identify the problems but we have no clue to fix it for both. Death of quality cricket is unavoidable for BD, I thought it would only last for entertainment, but nowadays it's not even entertaining us anymore.
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  #4  
Old September 17, 2014, 01:16 PM
dark mage dark mage is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mufi_02
BCB is incompetent at many levels. Domestic league is a farce and there is no goal to improve it. The current form has many roots in BCB's actions or the lack of it.

But is it fair to only blame the board? The players do have adequate resources in terms of coaching staff, gym, training facilities. Most of the player in the current squad have been playing cricket at top level for more than 5 years. But they keep on making the same mistakes, fall for same traps, and shows no sign of learning. For how many years is Kayes poking at outside delivery, Riyad failing to provide clutch innings, Tamim throwing it away after a good start?

Beside Shakib/Mushy (batting only), we don't have any player that have gradually improved the game over the years. All of them starts with a bang and then slowly fades away (Gazi, ESunny, Nasir etc). This shows the lack of urgency to constantly push for improvement.

Zim/Ire/Afg have less resources than us. They are paid less than us. They don't have full time coaching staff like us. Their domestic is almost nonexistent (exception IRE:county) but they are almost at par with us.

So yes, while the board has no visions and is very inept, the current players are the main culprit in my opinion. Despite the resources, wealth and celebrity status they have failed to deliver. They have failed to even meet the lowest of expectations.
I agree with you that the problem lies with our players, atleast the ones that are in the national squad. Anamul isn't concentrating on improving his technique, Nasir too has technical issues, most of you guys just talk about how good his average is as a proof of him belonging at this level, but I always felt, he was a one-track pony who would be found out against a better attack in conditions that are fast-bowling friendly. Nasir boosted his average in two years, where we played mostly at home. So don't just blame him, the fault lies in his technique. Riyad can somehow still survive because of his better technique, while Nasir is nothing without his confidence.
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  #5  
Old September 17, 2014, 02:39 PM
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I blame the player for such showing.
Most of these sissies have been playing 1st class cricket for long time and they need to adjust the temperament and game plan accordingly.
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  #6  
Old September 17, 2014, 02:40 PM
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is there an option to select BOTH?
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  #7  
Old September 17, 2014, 03:04 PM
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SJ: Coming in as a foreign bowling coach for an Asian team, Bangladesh, with their own culture and backgrounds, how do you see your role with the team? Do you see any similarity in how you had to lead a very young Zimbabwe team post 2003 and the role with Bangladesh?

HS: Yes. I do think it is similar in that we have a domestic system that still needs a lot of improvement. That is where we can work with the board and improve the system in which, like for me specifically, we see how the fast bowlers are nurtured and identified and looked after at age-group levels into the first-class system and ultimately into the Bangladesh A team and the national team. Those are important, that they get coached properly, looked after properly, playing in the right way and monitored; because once they get into the national team and I take over the technical and tactical work with them, these guys have at least got a decent grounding. The level of domestic cricket is similar to that in Zimbabwe. It needs improvement and we need to make it harder and tougher so the gap between domestic cricket and playing international cricket is not so much.

Australia and England for example - their state and county cricket respectively is played at a very high level and much closer to international level. Now what we are trying to do is to get more A games to bridge the gap between domestic and international sides so we have got a much better measuring tool on how players can perform. Players perform in domestic cricket and hopefully can showcase their abilities in the next level and we can see if they are able to kick on to the international level.

There is no doubt the talent and ability in the pool in Bangladesh is massive. In professional cricket, it takes time. You have to invest in these players. You have to identify them early and look after them physically, train them the right way, get them physically strong enough to withstand the rigours of playing at the highest level and support them and make sure that by the time they are playing for Bangladesh, you are not looking at the silly things like diet and whether they are strong enough to bowl 15 overs in a Test match because those are the sort of things that you have to plan and make sure are happening at the level below.

http://www.espncricinfo.com/magazine...ry/779047.html

You're only as good as your system. Simple as that. Not rocket science as to why the strongest teams are the likes of England, Australia and South Africa. The rest of the teams also have better systems. You can see it in the way they play compared to us and Zimbabwe. Their players are not only talented, but they are developed to succeed in international cricket whereas our players rely on just pure talent. Yes our players are talented but talent alone isn't going to get you anywhere as we've seen. Yes our players might be getting better resources than other sports in the country but has it been better than the G8? I seriously have my doubts about that looking at the farcical nature of the local matches compared to the other Test nations.

That said, our players are also to be blamed a lot. You can't fault some of those shots our batsmen played all on BCB. Our players have to know their limitations and play within themselves. Unfortunately it seems as though they think they're better than they actually are. Hence, we hear comments such as "Vitori is ordinary" or "India is sending their A team." It could be the Indian and Pakistani influence. Our players grew up wanting to be like them. Indians and Pakistanis have far superior systems though. That's why following their style of play is the wrong way go. They should realize where they stand in world cricket

You can see even Zimbabwe play within themselves much better than our players. They know they aren't Sehwags or Gayles but they go about their business and more often than not, they fight hard. Their show was impressive against South Africa and Australia. Would our players show the fight they did? That's where our players fall behind the others. They lack the fight and self belief of other nations.
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  #8  
Old September 17, 2014, 03:12 PM
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BCB. Rotten at the top.
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Old September 17, 2014, 03:13 PM
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Its fault of illegal bcb president nazmul hossain papon and unprofessional coah hathurasinghe
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  #10  
Old September 17, 2014, 04:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiger444
http://www.espncricinfo.com/magazine...ry/779047.html

You're only as good as your system. Simple as that. Not rocket science as to why the strongest teams are the likes of England, Australia and South Africa. The rest of the teams also have better systems. You can see it in the way they play compared to us and Zimbabwe. Their players are not only talented, but they are developed to succeed in international cricket whereas our players rely on just pure talent. Yes our players are talented but talent alone isn't going to get you anywhere as we've seen. Yes our players might be getting better resources than other sports in the country but has it been better than the G8? I seriously have my doubts about that looking at the farcical nature of the local matches compared to the other Test nations.

That said, our players are also to be blamed a lot. You can't fault some of those shots our batsmen played all on BCB. Our players have to know their limitations and play within themselves. Unfortunately it seems as though they think they're better than they actually are. Hence, we hear comments such as "Vitori is ordinary" or "India is sending their A team." It could be the Indian and Pakistani influence. Our players grew up wanting to be like them. Indians and Pakistanis have far superior systems though. That's why following their style of play is the wrong way go. They should realize where they stand in world cricket

You can see even Zimbabwe play within themselves much better than our players. They know they aren't Sehwags or Gayles but they go about their business and more often than not, they fight hard. Their show was impressive against South Africa and Australia. Would our players show the fight they did? That's where our players fall behind the others. They lack the fight and self belief of other nations.
Good post

But I would still blame the players more. Tamim/Kayes/Riyad/Mushy/Razzak is playing cricket for 6-7 years now and under many coaches (Whatmore, Law, Pybus, SJ, now Haturi) and in many conditions (Asia, Eng, SA, WI) against all the top teams and have seen the top players in front of their own eyes AND yet shows no responsibility.

Tell me what more do they need? They only lack competitive FC matches but where is the improvement in ODIs then?

Okay I get they get pitches that are slow and low. Then why can't we even win T20s and ODIs in our home conditions consistently? Okay SL is a good team and we lost all. But why do we still lose to AFG/HK and get whitewashed by India C in the home condition?

What more can the board do to at least win against minnows and weaker teams? We get disgraced by below 100 scores and Stuart Binny gets his record figures.

Papon wins fake election, Faruk favors family, Akram Khan steals electricity, Durjoy becomes MP, Jalal Yunus stares in the camera..but still these are not any excuse for these performances.

The players have enough resources and training to win at least those matches and put up a fight. We aren't asking them to win WC. Just win those freaking games and be at least competitive.
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  #11  
Old September 17, 2014, 04:28 PM
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No.1 (Domestic structure -BCB), No.2 (Players mentality weak - Most of us are born weak (mentally and emotionally) No.3 (Players desire to become decent or great? None. Average is ok) No.4 (Team selection - not selected based on Talent + Performance)
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  #12  
Old September 17, 2014, 08:07 PM
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King13,

The sources of No1-4, all the problems you mentioned be you, is again No1 (only BCB part). If BCB is competent, these mentally blocked or less talented players would not have been in the team. System would have flushed them out.

Like "Tigers_eye" mentioned, when 'Rotten at top', you will see many side affects. Side affects are not the PROBLEM.
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  #13  
Old September 17, 2014, 11:52 PM
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Domestic system is big and that's the boards fault but the cricket culture and player responsibility and desire etc can all be fixed by senior players (more than the BCB) showing by example.

SJ recently said commitment for test cricket isn't an issue as they want to play but the new coaches comments prove otherwise.

Take a look at all the great modern day players, they all take responsibility over their own career there is no blame on others and no excuses just being smart, working hard and being responsible for your own career path despite certain challenges that may make things more difficult.
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  #14  
Old September 18, 2014, 03:06 AM
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Great post. Million dollar question now for every Bangladeshi cricket fan. We all wish we could get the correct answer so that we could resolve, but its not so easy.

I guess both parties are to blame.

Honestly if we played Zimbabwe in Zimbabwe at this point, we would lose there as well. Who knows we might even struggle against Ireland in their conditions. I dont think our guys are at all prepared to play in foreign conditions, especially in the longer format. Coach after coach from Gordon Greenidge have told BCB to restructure domestic cricket, prepare lively, sporting wickets. Even now our domestic team captains wont hesitate to give the new ball to spinners. So whatever first class cricket we play at home, it simply doesnt count as it lacks the competitiveness, good players, and poor wickets which never tests the batsmen. Must also mention a lot of the things we used to do well are ceasing. Those days all age group teams used to be coached by experienced Sri Lankans. We had two top Under 19 coaches in McIness, De Winter. Now after McIness's resignation the academy is leaderless, not to mention BCB never paid heed to the projects recommended by the Australian. Selection too always debatable. Why pick Elias Sunny for example who wasnt in the top 25? What logic? How are we expecting such a young guy like Taijul Islam to lead our attack?

Players also need to be held accountable. True they dont have the right platform to hone their skills. But an Irish or Zimbabwean player with lesser talent would perform a lot better than most of our guys simply because of better application, thinking, general attitude towards work, discipline etc. Why does Tamim need to be spoon fed so much? Why did Sohag Gazi need Saqlain Mushtaq around to bowl well? Its as if they are kindergarten children not willing to work hard or learn on their own. What saddens me is the repeated mistakes they make, and their unwillingness to learn from experience-even the best of them.
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Old September 18, 2014, 05:17 AM
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The players are solely to blame. They have no interest whatsoever in improving their game. They do not learn from their mistakes. Does it require a lot of effort to score a single digit in a cricket match ? Me or anyone here can easily do that!
The national team players need to be also forced to play in FC's. Having no match experiences other than Intl matches is unacceptable
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  #16  
Old September 18, 2014, 06:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vua
The players are solely to blame. They have no interest whatsoever in improving their game. They do not learn from their mistakes. Does it require a lot of effort to score a single digit in a cricket match ? Me or anyone here can easily do that!
The national team players need to be also forced to play in FC's. Having no match experiences other than Intl matches is unacceptable
But why is this? Dont they have any pride or anything? Its as if they are playing as profession, not for the sport or the country.
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  #17  
Old September 18, 2014, 08:35 AM
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I think the reason for a player not taking things seriously is lack of talent in the pipeline. National team players know very well that if they can somehow manage to score 30-40 runs in one match, or can grab 2-3 wickets, they are set for few series. Why bother working extra hard to hone their skills..They get instant stardom, don't face much challenge and as a result, start taking things lightly and don't take practice seriously

This trend started from JS era as many has mentioned before. And BCB also didnt bother taking stern actions. The players wouldn't have the audacity to take things lightly if the administration was strict and honest. BCB took a bold step by punishing a player known for skipping training and other questionable deeds but they messed things up badly. Incompetence at its best.

A qualified coach is needed to get the best out of the players. But a strong administration is also needed to produce quality players with proper work ethics and manners..

Providing facilities only to national team players and overlooking others won't solve the problem. BCB needs to make sure that other players also get similar training facilities, sporting wickets for all domestic matches, quality practice wickets for all domestic teams, qualified physio and trainers for all and so on. These ideas have been floating around for ages and yet BCB failed to implement them. They all want instant money, fame. BCB needs to put things together rather than blaming the players. These players are the outcome of your system. Fix the system first and the outcome will be gratifying
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Old September 18, 2014, 08:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeesh
But why is this? Dont they have any pride or anything? Its as if they are playing as profession, not for the sport or the country.
Forget country, they are not even playing professionally. They are happy to get paid and to go out there and so some thuk-thuks. I bet they will be equally happy if they play for Lalmatia club and get the same money
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Old September 18, 2014, 08:50 AM
Gowza Gowza is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roman
I think the reason for a player not taking things seriously is lack of talent in the pipeline. National team players know very well that if they can somehow manage to score 30-40 runs in one match, or can grab 2-3 wickets, they are set for few series. Why bother working extra hard to hone their skills..They get instant stardom, don't face much challenge and as a result, start taking things lightly and don't take practice seriously

This trend started from JS era as many has mentioned before. And BCB also didnt bother taking stern actions. The players wouldn't have the audacity to take things lightly if the administration was strict and honest. BCB took a bold step by punishing a player known for skipping training and other questionable deeds but they messed things up badly. Incompetence at its best.

A qualified coach is needed to get the best out of the players. But a strong administration is also needed to produce quality players with proper work ethics and manners..

Providing facilities only to national team players and overlooking others won't solve the problem. BCB needs to make sure that other players also get similar training facilities, sporting wickets for all domestic matches, quality practice wickets for all domestic teams, qualified physio and trainers for all and so on. These ideas have been floating around for ages and yet BCB failed to implement them. They all want instant money, fame. BCB needs to put things together rather than blaming the players. These players are the outcome of your system. Fix the system first and the outcome will be gratifying
Why bother working extra hard? Maybe because of personal desire to do well and be the best? But BD players don't seem to have that mentality. You can't blame desire, dedication and work ethic entirely on a poor system imo, yes it can influence but those who want to be the best don't let that hold them back because at the end of the day that aspect of the game is a personal decision that is only affected by the system if you let it be affected by the system. You can still have good work ethic amongst others who don't, it's your own personal choice that stops you.
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Old September 18, 2014, 09:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gowza
Why bother working extra hard? Maybe because of personal desire to do well and be the best? But BD players don't seem to have that mentality. You can't blame desire, dedication and work ethic entirely on a poor system imo, yes it can influence but those who want to be the best don't let that hold them back because at the end of the day that aspect of the game is a personal decision that is only affected by the system if you let it be affected by the system. You can still have good work ethic amongst others who don't, it's your own personal choice that stops you.
True. But these players in general are lethargic. They love to take things easy unless they get a good hard kick in the butt. Personal achievement to them is a decent house, fame and decent salary at the end of the month. Once they have that, very few of them work hard to achieve more.

Take a look at Raj for example. Vast experience yet so poor work ethics. He doesn't work extra hard to improve his game. And when get criticized, starts giving excuses and get emotional. Now, if BCB was little strict, Raj would spend his time training rather than complaining.

of course at the end of the day, it's the player's effort that matters most but he has to go through a proper system at least. Our system is flawed and our performance doesn't suggest otherwise.
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Old September 18, 2014, 09:16 AM
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If only one or two players in the squad had lack of commitment I could point my fingers to them. But when you witness the same level of professionalism (or the lack of it) among all generations of players (baring one or two) you gotta ask youself the question- is it just those 11 cricketers or footballers? Arn't they just part of us? They are us. In my opinion our cricketers are overachievers for our standard. Why just blame them unfairly? They are just a part of a system and culture which is broken and rotten. They display our national character.
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Old September 18, 2014, 09:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roman
True. But these players in general are lethargic. They love to take things easy unless they get a good hard kick in the butt. Personal achievement to them is a decent house, fame and decent salary at the end of the month. Once they have that, very few of them work hard to achieve more.

Take a look at Raj for example. Vast experience yet so poor work ethics. He doesn't work extra hard to improve his game. And when get criticized, starts giving excuses and get emotional. Now, if BCB was little strict, Raj would spend his time training rather than complaining.

of course at the end of the day, it's the player's effort that matters most but he has to go through a proper system at least. Our system is flawed and our performance doesn't suggest otherwise.
a player can have good work ethic even in a poor system.
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Old September 18, 2014, 09:37 AM
Gowza Gowza is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 5tonne
If only one or two players in the squad had lack of commitment I could point my fingers to them. But when you witness the same level of professionalism (or the lack of it) among all generations of players (baring one or two) you gotta ask youself the question- is it just those 11 cricketers or footballers? Arn't they just part of us? They are us. In my opinion our cricketers are overachievers for our standard. Why just blame them unfairly? They are just a part of a system and culture which is broken and rotten. They display our national character.
because the players, especially the senior ones are a big part of creating and setting that culture. it's not just the national team squad members, probably most of the domestic players have the same problem but if the senior players (not just national team seniors) actually cared about BD cricket they'd want to change this culture and they could pretty easily do it.
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Old September 18, 2014, 09:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 5tonne
If only one or two players in the squad had lack of commitment I could point my fingers to them. But when you witness the same level of professionalism (or the lack of it) among all generations of players (baring one or two) you gotta ask youself the question- is it just those 11 cricketers or footballers? Arn't they just part of us? They are us. In my opinion our cricketers are overachievers for our standard. Why just blame them unfairly? They are just a part of a system and culture which is broken and rotten. They display our national character.
This is actually the main point unfortunately. Hit the nail on the head.
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Old September 18, 2014, 09:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gowza
a player can have good work ethic even in a poor system.
They can but our players won't. BCB or the management team has to babysit them unfortunately. 5tonne has explained our cultural blemishes beautifully
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