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  #51  
Old October 26, 2012, 04:08 AM
Gowza Gowza is offline
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i think think as it stands right now with shakib and sunny performing they have to be the #1 and #2 SLAs, until one of them makes a mistake enamul will have to sit out and wait for his time, he had a chance already and couldn't take hold of it now it's sunny's turn to give it ago especially since he is performing very well. sohag should be the #1 offie, whether he gets a game or not is for discussion but he's a good choice for #7/#8 positions.
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  #52  
Old October 26, 2012, 05:50 AM
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I do feel by now we should have produced another world class sla. I hope either Sunny or Enamul can become that. I'm looking forward to the battle for the 2nd sla spot in the future.
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  #53  
Old October 26, 2012, 09:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jadukor
Here is what would be a reasonable squad even though I am not convinced about a couple of players in it:
1. Tamim
2. Nazim (due to limited options)
3. Naeem (want to see what the hype surrounding him is all about)
4. Ryad (need to take more responsibility instead of hiding in the shadows)
5. Shakib
6. Mushy (wkt keeping is a demanding task in Tests and hence need time to rest before batting)
7. Nasir (no room for him up the order)
8. Shohag Gazi
9. Enamul Hq Jr
10. Nazmul
11. Rubel
Won't mnd if this is the quad. But would like to see two changes, to make it even better IMO:

1. Sunny instead of Riyad... But that may not happen, so instead of Enamul.
2. With so many spinner/SLAs..in the team, we need to genuine Quicks for Variation... So instead of Nazmul it could be Shahadat/Shafiul...quick by our standard... Shahadat had been generally good in test matches..at times expensive but provides breakthroughs..Nazmul is ok for limited overs.
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  #54  
Old October 26, 2012, 11:43 AM
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Tiger444 Tiger444 is offline
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The most likely squad we'll see from the selectors is,

1. Tamim
2. Nazimuddin
3. Nafees
4. Riyad
5. Shakib
6. Nasir
7. Mushy
8. Shahadat
9. Sunny
10. Enamul
11. Rubel
12. Shafiul(backup pacer)
13. Sohag(backup spinner)
14. Naeem(backup middle order batsman)
15. Jahurul/Anamul(backup top order/wicketkeeper)

If it was up to me however I would have Mominul in place of Nazimuddin and Nazmul in place of Shahadat but the squad I put up here is the mostly likely the one we'll see once they put it up.
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  #55  
Old October 26, 2012, 02:10 PM
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^^ I don't think the selectors would put Sohag Gazi in the squad.
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  #56  
Old October 26, 2012, 03:15 PM
Gowza Gowza is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BANFAN
Won't mnd if this is the quad. But would like to see two changes, to make it even better IMO:

1. Sunny instead of Riyad... But that may not happen, so instead of Enamul.
2. With so many spinner/SLAs..in the team, we need to genuine Quicks for Variation... So instead of Nazmul it could be Shahadat/Shafiul...quick by our standard... Shahadat had been generally good in test matches..at times expensive but provides breakthroughs..Nazmul is ok for limited overs.
i'm sorry but a strike rate of 71, econ of 4.2 and average of 49.79, his average for the last 4 years is 68 and as you get closer to now it gets worse (last 3 years ave 71 econ 4.3 s/r 99 in 10 matches, last 2 years which granted is only matches but it's all we have to go on is 197 at a s/r of 249, yes 249 and an econ of 4.7).

shahadat had a good period in his career in around 2007/2008/2009 where he was aveaging low 40s but the couple of years before that and the years after that he's averaged high 40s even low 50s.

we only see him as the breakthrough man because he's the one who got the chances, probably if others had got so many chances they would also have similar if not better results.

if you're looking for pace may as well inject abul since he's less known by the opposition but really i think our best bets are rubel and nazmul for pace, shafiul would be the next one i'd pick.
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  #57  
Old October 26, 2012, 05:19 PM
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1. Tamim Iqbal
2. Shahriar Nafees
3. Mominul Haque
4. Naeem Islam
5. Shakib Al Hasan
6. Nasir Hossain
7. Mushfiqur Rahim
8. Elias Sunny
9. Enamul Haque jnr
10. Nazmul Hossain
11. Rubel Hossain
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  #58  
Old October 26, 2012, 05:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiger Manc
^^ I don't think the selectors would put Sohag Gazi in the squad.
I think they might since the Windies are bringing in many lefties. Then again I won't be surprised if we end up seeing Razzak in there ahead of Gazi.
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  #59  
Old October 26, 2012, 06:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gowza
i'm sorry but a strike rate of 71, econ of 4.2 and average of 49.79, his average for the last 4 years is 68 and as you get closer to now it gets worse (last 3 years ave 71 econ 4.3 s/r 99 in 10 matches, last 2 years which granted is only matches but it's all we have to go on is 197 at a s/r of 249, yes 249 and an econ of 4.7).

shahadat had a good period in his career in around 2007/2008/2009 where he was aveaging low 40s but the couple of years before that and the years after that he's averaged high 40s even low 50s.

we only see him as the breakthrough man because he's the one who got the chances, probably if others had got so many chances they would also have similar if not better results.

if you're looking for pace may as well inject abul since he's less known by the opposition but really i think our best bets are rubel and nazmul for pace, shafiul would be the next one i'd pick.
Didn't Shahadat have an average above a 200 last year in Tests? I'm sorry but he shouldn't be in the team. His overall average might be better then the likes of Rubel and Shafiul but he just looked awful last year. Rubel in the tests at home, at least looked threatening to take wickets whereas Shahadat was just all over the place as he usually is. Nazmul, Shafiul and Rubel should be in the squad but knowing the selectors, we'll see Shahadat in place of Nazmul.
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  #60  
Old October 26, 2012, 11:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gowza
i'm sorry but a strike rate of 71, econ of 4.2 and average of 49.79, his average for the last 4 years is 68 and as you get closer to now it gets worse (last 3 years ave 71 econ 4.3 s/r 99 in 10 matches, last 2 years which granted is only matches but it's all we have to go on is 197 at a s/r of 249, yes 249 and an econ of 4.7).
Those stats aren't just terrible, they're appalling. In fact, laws should be passed criminalizing strike rates above 150! JK, but you get the point.

Quote:
shahadat had a good period in his career in around 2007/2008/2009 where he was aveaging low 40s but the couple of years before that and the years after that he's averaged high 40s even low 50s.
Shahadat like many of our other players was actually better than he is now. At one stage in his career he had an average of 36 and a strike rate of 52. Right after the 2008 RSA series. Mash is the only pacer to have a similar average, but no one has had such a strike rate. At one stage of his early career he a strike rate well into the 40s. He had so much potential...

Quote:
we only see him as the breakthrough man because he's the one who got the chances, probably if others had got so many chances they would also have similar if not better results.
I disagree here. Quite a few other bowlers got a fair amount of chances and produced like he has been the past couple of years. Mash and Tapash played quite a bit and didn't take a single fiver. All the innings bowled by Talha, Sharif, Nazmul, Rubel, Monju, Shafiul, Shanto, Robin, etc probably at least equals the amount of overs Shahadat has thrown down and they've only produced 1 fiver (by Rubel).

That being said, I'd still go with Rubel and Nazmul as my starting pacers and I would still select Shahadat in the XV because someone is bound to get hurt or smote out of the XI and Shahadat is next best bet we've got.

More to the topic of the OP...I've been thinking about this thread for a while and the 15 guys I would pick (starting XI first) would be:

1) Soumyo Sarkar
2) Tamim
3) Anamul
4) Mominul
5) Shakib
6) Mushfiq
7) Nasir
8) Sunny
9) Nazmul
10) Enamul
11) Rubel

x) Shahadat
x) Gazi
x) Nazimuddin
x) Naeem Islam

Soumyo is definitely not ready, but he has rare talent and we have no one else. Soumyo is definitely going to score tons interspersed by tons of single digit scores, but in time he may mature. Regardles, everyone knows my mantra, "we have no one else". Imrul is garbage, slightly less crappy in ODIs but his low SR makes Ashraful look appetizing. Nazimuddin is a Test "specialist" and although he did well against PAK, I doubt he has the quality to sustain it. I'd rather have Ash open than Imrul and Nazimuddin. But Nazimuddin didn't really get a good run, otherwise I won't hesitate in putting Ash back in my 15.

Anamul may be out of form, but form as we know is temporary. He's taken bowlers like Merchant de Lange to the cleaners on home pitches, why do we think he can't do the same to Tino Best and Rampaul? Anamul should have been picked a year ago, we waited too long and now he's beginning to suck. If you get stuck in the NCL too long, you go bad. This ain't the Sheffield Shield folks.

Mominul was by far the best batsman in the A team. It would be as idiotic to leave him out now as it was to leave Anam out a year ago. I know I've picked four debutants, but Michigan had 5 freshman start back in 1991.

The toughest choice was between Gazi and Enamul, but I went with Enamul because if you can pick an offie to bowl to RHBs than you can pick an SLA to bowl to LHBs. Besides all of Shakib, Sunny, and Enam are different bowlers with different styles. Nasir can bowl some offies if need be. Gazi does have batting upside, and thus it was a tough decision, and it could go either way. But I'll go with Enamul who's been ripping through any side he's bowled against for quite some time now. The spot is his to lose, however.

Pace wise Rubel and Nazmul pretty much select themselves. I am totally not confident in one or both of them and thus would not be surprised to have to resort to Shahadat, whose form is decent enough.

In the forseeable future, I see Taskin Ahmed eventually phasing out one of the pacers and taking over as the pace spearhead for Tests. I think he's a very ordinary limited overs bowling, talent notwithstanding, but I think its in Tests that he can make an immediate impact and where our needs lie. Our ODI pace trio of Mash, Rubel, and Nazmul is more than settled and actually quite competant.
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  #61  
Old October 26, 2012, 11:50 PM
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There are other pacers who have has decent chances, rubel and shafiul are 2 of those but rubel has improved a lot in the other formats and shafiul's stats aren't as bad as shahadat's. when I say he is the one that got the chances I mean guys like sajidul, robin, dolar etc got a handful of chances and no more.
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  #62  
Old October 27, 2012, 12:57 AM
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al Furqaan al Furqaan is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gowza
There are other pacers who have has decent chances, rubel and shafiul are 2 of those but rubel has improved a lot in the other formats and shafiul's stats aren't as bad as shahadat's. when I say he is the one that got the chances I mean guys like sajidul, robin, dolar etc got a handful of chances and no more.
Well I was never impressed with Robin or Dollar, so I would be highly surprised if they took any fivers ever. They were no better than Tapash if you ask me. Sajidul I had high hopes from but he kind of fell of the face of the earth like Rasel a little while later.

As for the current group, Rubel and Shafiul have played a fair number of matches and their stats stink even compared to Shahadat. Rubel has an economy rate approaching 5, has bowled 100 no balls in Tests faster than anyone else in the game's history, and both have strike rates approaching 100. I still have hope in Rubel because he's improved his ODI game and because he has pace and the ability to reverse swing it and bowl genione wicket taking deliveries. Shafiul too I thought could be a decent if slightly ordinary bowler with his ability to swing the ball, but he's dropped off alarmingly.

But I suppose being a pace bowler is hard work, otherwise guys like Ishant, Sreesanth, and pretty much all the Lankan bowlers (I know Jeesh is gonna hate me fore this) would have at least combined for half the success of the likes of Stuart Broad or Umar Gul.

Thats why, if he plays as he did last week, I am not only in favor of, but I would demand the inclusion of guys like Taskin into our Test side by this time next year. I am already demanding the inclusion of Anamul and Mominul and to slightly lesser extent Soumya. I've had enough of Ashraful and Imrul and frankly a string of 10 consecutive ducks from the new guys can't be any worse!
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  #63  
Old October 27, 2012, 01:12 AM
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yeah rubel and shafiul haven't got very good test stats but they have much much better ODI stats than shahadat, rubel has definitely shown improvement and shafiul might be struggling but like i said he has much better ODI stats than shahadat. i realise ODI results don't always translate to test results but it's treally our only hope at this point, shahadat is horrible in all formats, rubel and shafiul are at least decent in ODIs.
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  #64  
Old October 27, 2012, 01:49 AM
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agree with Gowza, last time i saw Shahadat bowl i wanted to vomit....no offense! Asia Cup final he was all over the place, He bowled a couple of good overs here and there and took a few wickets but other than than he was horrific to watch in recent times...(all formats combined)
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  #65  
Old October 27, 2012, 02:57 AM
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if u guys consider stats, there shouldnt be any pacers in the Bangladesh test 15 squad
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  #66  
Old October 27, 2012, 03:25 AM
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al Furqaan al Furqaan is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gowza
yeah rubel and shafiul haven't got very good test stats but they have much much better ODI stats than shahadat, rubel has definitely shown improvement and shafiul might be struggling but like i said he has much better ODI stats than shahadat. i realise ODI results don't always translate to test results but it's treally our only hope at this point, shahadat is horrible in all formats, rubel and shafiul are at least decent in ODIs.
Thats terrible logic. They're better ODI bowlers therefore they should start in Tests? I wholeheartedly disagree. I'd still go with Rubel but based purely on potential...his stats aren't even CLOSE to Rajib's. At the same stage in his career I think Rajib had a 30s average and 40s strike rate. I'd start Rubel, but by 2015 if Rubel still has a 50+ average and 90+ strike rate he too will have to be replaced.

By next year, I expect Taskin to replace Shahadat.
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  #67  
Old October 27, 2012, 03:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by al Furqaan
Thats terrible logic. They're better ODI bowlers therefore they should start in Tests? I wholeheartedly disagree. I'd still go with Rubel but based purely on potential...his stats aren't even CLOSE to Rajib's. At the same stage in his career I think Rajib had a 30s average and 40s strike rate. I'd start Rubel, but by 2015 if Rubel still has a 50+ average and 90+ strike rate he too will have to be replaced.

By next year, I expect Taskin to replace Shahadat.
might be terrible logic but the fact is other than mash the only reasonably successful BD pacers internationally are rubel, shafiu and nazmul for their ODI bowling. consider this, a pacer who is somewhat successful in ODIs probably has a better chance of succeeding in tests than if they didn't have that success in the other format. also, moreso with bowlers than batsmen those who aren't successful in ODIs generally aren't successful in tests either and what we get when we compare shahadat and the other 3 is that they have done ok in one-dayers whereas shahadat hasn't. yes they've all done poorly in tests that is true and yes if they have 50+ averages with 90+ strike rates in a few years they should also be replaced but you can't totally dismiss ODI bowling success just because you are selecting a test side, especially when it comes to BD which has no successful test pacers to-date.

also the difference between rubel and shahadat is that rubel has shown an ability to improve, you may just say it's ODIs who cares, but he's shown improvement, shahadat hasn't, actually he's gone backwards.

as far as taskin goes, he's just another guy with potential at this stage, there have been plenty e.g. shahadat, mash, talha, mash, abul, emon ahmed, sajidul, kamrul etc. he has pace, he has height, he's young and he's done well in u19s fair enough he's a prospect but same can be said of abu jayed, also al amin has been good. taskin isn't the only pacer with potential. hopefully by a years time taskin has performed domestically because even if he has potential i wouldn't pick him unless he was backed by domestic performance. the days are gone where selection should purely be based on potential and talent, needs to be backed by some good domestic performances to.
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  #68  
Old October 27, 2012, 03:50 AM
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@ Al Furqan why would you leave out Riyad from your team?
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  #69  
Old October 27, 2012, 03:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by al Furqaan
Those stats aren't just terrible, they're appalling. In fact, laws should be passed criminalizing strike rates above 150! JK, but you get the point.



Shahadat like many of our other players was actually better than he is now. At one stage in his career he had an average of 36 and a strike rate of 52. Right after the 2008 RSA series. Mash is the only pacer to have a similar average, but no one has had such a strike rate. At one stage of his early career he a strike rate well into the 40s. He had so much potential...



I disagree here. Quite a few other bowlers got a fair amount of chances and produced like he has been the past couple of years. Mash and Tapash played quite a bit and didn't take a single fiver. All the innings bowled by Talha, Sharif, Nazmul, Rubel, Monju, Shafiul, Shanto, Robin, etc probably at least equals the amount of overs Shahadat has thrown down and they've only produced 1 fiver (by Rubel).

That being said, I'd still go with Rubel and Nazmul as my starting pacers and I would still select Shahadat in the XV because someone is bound to get hurt or smote out of the XI and Shahadat is next best bet we've got.

More to the topic of the OP...I've been thinking about this thread for a while and the 15 guys I would pick (starting XI first) would be:

1) Soumyo Sarkar
2) Tamim
3) Anamul
4) Mominul
5) Shakib
6) Mushfiq
7) Nasir
8) Sunny
9) Nazmul
10) Enamul
11) Rubel

x) Shahadat
x) Gazi
x) Nazimuddin
x) Naeem Islam

Soumyo is definitely not ready, but he has rare talent and we have no one else. Soumyo is definitely going to score tons interspersed by tons of single digit scores, but in time he may mature. Regardles, everyone knows my mantra, "we have no one else". Imrul is garbage, slightly less crappy in ODIs but his low SR makes Ashraful look appetizing. Nazimuddin is a Test "specialist" and although he did well against PAK, I doubt he has the quality to sustain it. I'd rather have Ash open than Imrul and Nazimuddin. But Nazimuddin didn't really get a good run, otherwise I won't hesitate in putting Ash back in my 15.

Anamul may be out of form, but form as we know is temporary. He's taken bowlers like Merchant de Lange to the cleaners on home pitches, why do we think he can't do the same to Tino Best and Rampaul? Anamul should have been picked a year ago, we waited too long and now he's beginning to suck. If you get stuck in the NCL too long, you go bad. This ain't the Sheffield Shield folks.

Mominul was by far the best batsman in the A team. It would be as idiotic to leave him out now as it was to leave Anam out a year ago. I know I've picked four debutants, but Michigan had 5 freshman start back in 1991.

The toughest choice was between Gazi and Enamul, but I went with Enamul because if you can pick an offie to bowl to RHBs than you can pick an SLA to bowl to LHBs. Besides all of Shakib, Sunny, and Enam are different bowlers with different styles. Nasir can bowl some offies if need be. Gazi does have batting upside, and thus it was a tough decision, and it could go either way. But I'll go with Enamul who's been ripping through any side he's bowled against for quite some time now. The spot is his to lose, however.

Pace wise Rubel and Nazmul pretty much select themselves. I am totally not confident in one or both of them and thus would not be surprised to have to resort to Shahadat, whose form is decent enough.

In the forseeable future, I see Taskin Ahmed eventually phasing out one of the pacers and taking over as the pace spearhead for Tests. I think he's a very ordinary limited overs bowling, talent notwithstanding, but I think its in Tests that he can make an immediate impact and where our needs lie. Our ODI pace trio of Mash, Rubel, and Nazmul is more than settled and actually quite competant.
other than shafiul for shahadat and leaving out SS (since i picked 14 not 15) our squads are the same.
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  #70  
Old October 27, 2012, 04:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiger Manc
@ Al Furqan why would you leave out Riyad from your team?
Why not?
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  #71  
Old October 27, 2012, 04:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gowza
might be terrible logic but the fact is other than mash the only reasonably successful BD pacers internationally are rubel, shafiu and nazmul for their ODI bowling. consider this, a pacer who is somewhat successful in ODIs probably has a better chance of succeeding in tests than if they didn't have that success in the other format. also, moreso with bowlers than batsmen those who aren't successful in ODIs generally aren't successful in tests either and what we get when we compare shahadat and the other 3 is that they have done ok in one-dayers whereas shahadat hasn't. yes they've all done poorly in tests that is true and yes if they have 50+ averages with 90+ strike rates in a few years they should also be replaced but you can't totally dismiss ODI bowling success just because you are selecting a test side, especially when it comes to BD which has no successful test pacers to-date.

also the difference between rubel and shahadat is that rubel has shown an ability to improve, you may just say it's ODIs who cares, but he's shown improvement, shahadat hasn't, actually he's gone backwards.

as far as taskin goes, he's just another guy with potential at this stage, there have been plenty e.g. shahadat, mash, talha, mash, abul, emon ahmed, sajidul, kamrul etc. he has pace, he has height, he's young and he's done well in u19s fair enough he's a prospect but same can be said of abu jayed, also al amin has been good. taskin isn't the only pacer with potential. hopefully by a years time taskin has performed domestically because even if he has potential i wouldn't pick him unless he was backed by domestic performance. the days are gone where selection should purely be based on potential and talent, needs to be backed by some good domestic performances to.
If the bowler is uncapped in one format, yes, its fair to make an assumption. However Rubel and Shafiul have both played a handful of Tests, enough to get a good assessment about their abilities. We can say, with reasonable certainty, that as of the last Test we played, not much seperates Rubel, Shafiul, or Shahadat. They are all equally unimpressive. In that circumstance, the default would be to pick the guy who a) has the most experience (Shahadat) and/or b) can bowl an "Eid" spell (also Shahadat). Because Shahadat wins on both fronts, its actually a no brainer to select Shahadat over Rubel and Shafiul if thats the choice that has to be made. Since Nazmul should get the first slot, then Shahadat should win the last remaining spot.

However, the mitigating factor is Shahadat's recent form. While Rubel and Shafiul are pitifully averaging near the century mark, Shahadat has lately been averaging around the double ton mark. Thus, I am picking Rubel over Shahadat for the time being.

We know the selectors are going to select Rubel and Shahadat for the 2 Tests and Nazmul's only chance is if someone gets injured - even though he should be the first choice seamer.
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Old October 27, 2012, 04:30 AM
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al Furqaan al Furqaan is online now
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Originally Posted by Tiger Manc
@ Al Furqan why would you leave out Riyad from your team?
Riyad has more ability than Naeem, but Naeem is guaranteed to face 100+ deliveries, possibly more even if he's batting down at #8. Riyad has poor form as of right now and thus he deserves the axe.
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Old October 27, 2012, 07:59 AM
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^^ Riyad will prove himself. Besides since when did Bangladesh have the luxury to drop a batsman that averages 30.
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Old October 27, 2012, 08:06 AM
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BD's middle order is doing very nicely at current, shakib, nasir and rahim i would say are all better batsmen than riyad so that really leaves riyad batting down at #7 which i guess if you rate his bowling it's ok but personally i don't think he's quite a good enough test match bowler to take a lower order spot which could go to a specialist bowler or a bowling allrounder (i think at best riyad is a batting allrounder in tests as opposed to bowling allrounder). otherwise the only other open spots for him would be 2nd opener or the #3 spot and i don't think he'd do very well there. naeem and riyad are similar players so i think riyad's role would pretty much be covered if naeem was selected and naeem is in form whereas riyad has been struggling lately.
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Old October 27, 2012, 09:09 AM
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I'm "kewl" with any combination as long as the incomparable Nazza's in the mix. If he does well in the NCL, the greatest FC tournament that ever was/is/will be, then everyone will see what the gods know already. If he doesn't, then it must be an anomaly obvious enough to include him in the team as our only chance to show the dancin' islanders what time it is.

Guys like Shakib, Tamim, Bijauy, Hom, SoSa and Mushfique have nuttn' on him. Taskin??? I'm sure Mushfik Babu will do better.
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