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  #1  
Old October 23, 2012, 05:16 AM
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Ian Pont Ian Pont is offline
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Default Coach Issues

There are some inherent issues with coaches coming to Bangladesh and staying, or wanting to stay.

It isn't a financial issue (except in my case) usually. It is more often than not a realisation that differences are hard to make. We all know why those differences are hard to make and that it takes a special type of coach to want to stay and 'guts it out' when there are many issues out of their control, that affect the performance of players and the teams in Bangladesh.

It says much when coaches already employed by Bangladesh apply for other roles with rivals, as happened with Stuart Barnes and Shane Jurgensen over the Pakistan bowling coach role, but it is understandable if people feel frustrated or unable to make much headway.

Jamie Siddons wanted to stay another two years at least when he left. He was committed to BD and was so sad to leave. Julien Fountain similarly. Stuart Law and Richard Pybus perhaps have different views over their time with BD.

The key is in finding coaches committed to stay, happy to roll up their sleeves and work hard, plus be determined to genuinely make a difference.

BD deserves coaches who are not simply 'career' coaches looking to add Test countries to their cricket coaching CV, or 'have a go' at it. The roles in BD are varied, tough and fans are emotional about their team. Living in Dhaka when you come from London, Brisbane, Cape Town or Johannesburg, is a challenge. Most that come I feel never settle.

Grant Luden is a great example of someone terrific and loyal. 4 years as conditioning coach and one of the very best appointments. BD needs like-minded coaches who are prepared for the long haul.... the BCB then needs to reward and retain these rare breeds.

Identifying them first is the key role, because it is unlikely to be a big name.
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  #2  
Old October 23, 2012, 05:55 AM
deshprem deshprem is offline
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why can't we just outsource our governance and coaching to people like Ian.
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  #3  
Old October 23, 2012, 06:21 AM
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Quote:
Identifying them first is the key role, because it is unlikely to be a big name.
Agreed to what you said and specially the last sentence. But at the same time we need to also make sure that the coach appointed has that ability to make a difference in the right direction.
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Old October 23, 2012, 11:41 AM
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Yes the job is hard for you coaches here, no doubt. The superiority complex (you work for us) and corruption, they wont disappear from this society anytime soon. You have to work in it.

So do u take the job or not, taking everything in account, thats the question.
Those who loved the passion for cricket here, stayed and took the challenge, let the corruption and superiority complex sit aside........made small targets to reach and made a difference. Dav W, Richard Mc, Jamie Sid namely.
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  #5  
Old October 23, 2012, 12:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mav
Yes the job is hard for you coaches here, no doubt. The superiority complex (you work for us) and corruption, they wont disappear from this society anytime soon. You have to work in it.

So do u take the job or not, taking everything in account, thats the question.
Those who loved the passion for cricket here, stayed and took the challenge, let the corruption and superiority complex sit aside........made small targets to reach and made a difference. Dav W, Richard Mc, Jamie Sid namely.
I think if you accept the job in BD you accept it knowing you have to live in BD - and your family either join you (Jamie) and you make a life, or they don't (Stuart Law, Richard Pybus) and you just get on with it. You cannot accept a role and THEN use family reasons as an excuse.

Whether you agree or not with his reasons, Lance Kluesener refused the bowling role due to family. Mick Newell withdrew for the same reasons as potential Head Coach. Honest and respected decisions.

We have seen Craig McDermott (Aus), Damien Wright (Aus in NZ) leaving key roles due to 'family' reasons or wanting to be back home. Allan Donald even did it to NZ and then Australia to take up SA role. McDermott was even stranger as this was his own country and he had been a player so knew what life was like.

It isn't just BD therefore that has these issues, but I suspect living in Dhaka is viewed as more of a challenge than living in Sydney or Auckland.

Simply put, the BCB will always have to offer higher salaries than some other countries to even get coaches to want to apply.

I enjoyed Dhaka personally (traffic aside) and felt it is possible to build a life there as a foreigner.

You have to assess whether the estimated money spent since Dav Whatmore in 2007 world cup on certain Coaches has been well spent and taken BD cricket forward. The harsh reality of Test rankings points and ODI rankings points might tell the truth.

The answer is to either appoint someone passionate about developing BD as a nation, and build a coaching staff of like-minded support staff like RM, or to appoint a BD coach and give them a chance. At least a local coach cannot use the excuse of being homesick, unable to convince his family or not understanding the politics of a government run board wanting to interfere in the team.
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Last edited by Ian Pont; October 23, 2012 at 01:34 PM..
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  #6  
Old October 23, 2012, 01:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian Pont
I think if you accept the job in BD you accept it knowing you have to live in BD - and your family either join you (Jamie) and you make a life, or they don't (Stuart Law, Richard Pybus) and you just get on with it. You cannot accept a role and THEN use family reasons as an excuse.

Whether you agree or not with his reasons, Lance Kluesener refused the bowling role due to family. Mick Newell withdrew for the same reasons as potential Head Coach. Honest and respected decisions.

We have seen Craig McDermott (Aus), Damien Wright (Aus in NZ) leaving key roles due to 'family' reasons or wanting to be back home. Allan Donald even did it to NZ and then Australia to take up SA role. McDermott was even stranger as this was his own country and he had been a player so knew what life was like.

It isn't just BD therefore that has these issues, but I suspect living in Dhaka is viewed as more of a challenge than living in Sydney or Auckland.

Simply put, the BCB will always have to offer higher salaries than some other countries to even get coaches to want to apply.

I enjoyed Dhaka personally (traffic aside) and felt it is possible to build a life there as a foreigner.

You have to assess whether the estimated money spent since Dav Whatmore in 2007 world cup on certain Coaches has been well spent and taken BD cricket forward. The harsh reality of Test rankings points and ODI rankings points might tell the truth.

The answer is to either appoint someone passionate about developing BD as a nation, and build a coaching staff of like-minded support staff like RM, or to appoint a BD coach and give them a chance. At least a local coach cannot use the excuse of being homesick, unable to convince his family or not understanding the politics of a government run board wanting to interfere in the team.
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  #7  
Old October 24, 2012, 02:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian Pont
I think if you accept the job in BD you accept it knowing you have to live in BD - and your family either join you (Jamie) and you make a life, or they don't (Stuart Law, Richard Pybus) and you just get on with it. You cannot accept a role and THEN use family reasons as an excuse.

Whether you agree or not with his reasons, Lance Kluesener refused the bowling role due to family. Mick Newell withdrew for the same reasons as potential Head Coach. Honest and respected decisions.

We have seen Craig McDermott (Aus), Damien Wright (Aus in NZ) leaving key roles due to 'family' reasons or wanting to be back home. Allan Donald even did it to NZ and then Australia to take up SA role. McDermott was even stranger as this was his own country and he had been a player so knew what life was like.

It isn't just BD therefore that has these issues, but I suspect living in Dhaka is viewed as more of a challenge than living in Sydney or Auckland.

Simply put, the BCB will always have to offer higher salaries than some other countries to even get coaches to want to apply.

I enjoyed Dhaka personally (traffic aside) and felt it is possible to build a life there as a foreigner.

You have to assess whether the estimated money spent since Dav Whatmore in 2007 world cup on certain Coaches has been well spent and taken BD cricket forward. The harsh reality of Test rankings points and ODI rankings points might tell the truth.

The answer is to either appoint someone passionate about developing BD as a nation, and build a coaching staff of like-minded support staff like RM, or to appoint a BD coach and give them a chance. At least a local coach cannot use the excuse of being homesick, unable to convince his family or not understanding the politics of a government run board wanting to interfere in the team.
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  #8  
Old October 24, 2012, 06:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian Pont
There are some inherent issues with coaches coming to Bangladesh and staying, or wanting to stay.

It isn't a financial issue (except in my case) usually. It is more often than not a realisation that differences are hard to make. We all know why those differences are hard to make and that it takes a special type of coach to want to stay and 'guts it out' when there are many issues out of their control, that affect the performance of players and the teams in Bangladesh.

It says much when coaches already employed by Bangladesh apply for other roles with rivals, as happened with Stuart Barnes and Shane Jurgensen over the Pakistan bowling coach role, but it is understandable if people feel frustrated or unable to make much headway.

Jamie Siddons wanted to stay another two years at least when he left. He was committed to BD and was so sad to leave. Julien Fountain similarly. Stuart Law and Richard Pybus perhaps have different views over their time with BD.

The key is in finding coaches committed to stay, happy to roll up their sleeves and work hard, plus be determined to genuinely make a difference.

BD deserves coaches who are not simply 'career' coaches looking to add Test countries to their cricket coaching CV, or 'have a go' at it. The roles in BD are varied, tough and fans are emotional about their team. Living in Dhaka when you come from London, Brisbane, Cape Town or Johannesburg, is a challenge. Most that come I feel never settle.

Grant Luden is a great example of someone terrific and loyal. 4 years as conditioning coach and one of the very best appointments. BD needs like-minded coaches who are prepared for the long haul.... the BCB then needs to reward and retain these rare breeds.

Identifying them first is the key role, because it is unlikely to be a big name.
Well said Ian. It is amazing how often people call for superstar ex players to coach the side, and sometimes have have two or three of them working together as a staff. The reality is there is next to no chance of most of those names ever doing more than short term, IPL type jobs. You have to remember these guys have spent the best part of 10 to 20 years of their lives on the road, touring and playing cricket. They are now well paid for this honour and deservedly so, but what it means is that many of them dont actually need to work again, let alone take on the 24/7, 360 day a year role of professional coaching for much less than what they earned as a player. This is further enhanced when they can do some commentary here and there in various events and again earn more than most coaches for relatively easier work ( no disrespect meant to various commentators out there).

I take my hat off to Justin Langer and Allan Donald who have jumped back in, although these guys played most of their career before the big money was on offer. I think they are the last of that era. Could be wrong of course, but i know the trouble we have had in Australia trying to lure former international players into coaching roles, in a well organized set up in their home countries. The issues of trying to lure suitable qualified former star players to coach in the subcontinent, with all its nuances is even greater.

As Ian has pointed out it is about finding the right types of characters who are willing to get stuck in, do the hard work, put up with the various set backs, the interference, the well intentioned but misguided level of expectation of fans and administered and just keep going, day day out. Reality is many of the areas required to improve the team and systems are not difficult and don't require a 100 Test player's experience to solve. There are some very simple issues to be resolved before we are any chance of moving from number 9 or 10 on the rankings in any format.

Nations such as Ireland and Sri Lanka have recently undertaken some of the initiatives that we need to investigate or otherwise they pass or move further away from us. A slight deviation off topic, but relevant.

Back to the coaching issues, why not do the normal process, do the homework, identify some suitable candidates, advertise as well globally and see who is interested and then via a thorough and rigorous process appoint the most suitable candidate.

Then let him use his expertise to take the whole system forward, which in turn will make the administration and board look good as well.

Win, win situation is it not.
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  #9  
Old October 24, 2012, 06:55 AM
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Richard, its nice to see you posting here. Pybus mentioned about a "feeder" system you proposed to BCb which was, unfortunately, rejected by them. I know it is off-topic I hope you may tell us some more about it somewhere some time in this forum.
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  #10  
Old October 24, 2012, 07:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by observer
?............, why not do the normal process, do the homework, identify some suitable candidates, advertise as well globally and see who is interested and then via a thorough and rigorous process appoint the most suitable candidate.

Then let him use his expertise to take the whole system forward, which in turn will make the administration and board look good as well. ..........:
I thought they were already doing it !!! And the personal approaches were additional... Looks like I was wrong...
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  #11  
Old October 24, 2012, 03:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by observer
As Ian has pointed out it is about finding the right types of characters who are willing to get stuck in, do the hard work, put up with the various set backs, the interference, the well intentioned but misguided level of expectation of fans and administered and just keep going, day day out. Reality is many of the areas required to improve the team and systems are not difficult and don't require a 100 Test player's experience to solve. There are some very simple issues to be resolved before we are any chance of moving from number 9 or 10 on the rankings in any format.

Win, win situation is it not.
My sentiment exactly! Like some leaders/ captains, coaches are also situational and finding that coach is the key.This is what I said in anoher thread why I believe you can definitely fit into the coaching job Bangladesh.
You seem to have the right set of characteristics that can work in our rubbish politicised cricket environment and the skill set to match the need of the players. If both you and Ian could join forces then BD could definitely flourish. The eagerness both of you show are definitely heart warming. Sadly, coaches playing hard to get seems more attracticve to the BCB morons. They have been going after coaches who are genuinly not interested even if they are qualified.When someone's heart is set on something, issues can be worked out.
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  #12  
Old October 24, 2012, 08:27 PM
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So many people born in BD dont want to be living there permanently (due to practical reasons) so no surprise we have problems with foreign coaches.
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  #13  
Old October 24, 2012, 10:48 PM
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Our cricket is on the rise, financially. BCB is definitely not one of the poor boards anymore. If they still can't find a coach and pay them enough (infect overpay them) to keep them happy and keep them in Bangladesh, then it's failure on their part.

Yes, sure, it's "IPL-era". Coaches and players are getting big bucks for short terms, but I'm sure there are enough coaches out there who wants a full time job that pays well, and with benefits. Give them those benefits that IPL don't provide.
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Old October 24, 2012, 11:15 PM
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Can't say didn't see the Pybus situation coming but was holding out hope that maybe this time the counterproductive, traditional meddling would stop and he'd be given a real chance to show what he can do.

I agree with Richard Pybus, Ian Pont and Richard McInnes on everything each has to say about BCB and our cricket. The traditional combination of puerile egomania, laughable pretension and fundamental ignorance about the nuances of the sport many folks feel passionate about because of national pride and national pride alone, is somewhat acceptable and expected from some in an online fan forum such as this one, but continues to be lethal when seen in BCB decision makers including selectors.

Our people deserve better.

Everything old is new again
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Old October 24, 2012, 11:28 PM
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shamless bd's politics never will end.......atleast let the cricket go from your side eyes....after pibus, it will be tuff for us to find a good coach....
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  #16  
Old October 24, 2012, 11:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dilscoop
Our cricket is on the rise, financially. BCB is definitely not one of the poor boards anymore. If they still can't find a coach and pay them enough (infect overpay them) to keep them happy and keep them in Bangladesh, then it's failure on their part.

Yes, sure, it's "IPL-era". Coaches and players are getting big bucks for short terms, but I'm sure there are enough coaches out there who wants a full time job that pays well, and with benefits. Give them those benefits that IPL don't provide.
Dilscoop, it is not entirely about the money, the BCB pay sufficient to attract coaches here, but coaches by nature of what they do, want to be able to make a difference and if they dont feel like they can do that, then the money is irrelevant. The money might attract someone initially but in order to keep them here to build sustained success it requires an environment that allows the staff to utilise their expertise.
An environment where the articulated strategic plan of the organization is to deliver international success. A quick perusal of the ECB or CA strategic plan will show this, as does the plan for Cricket Ireland.
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  #17  
Old October 25, 2012, 01:07 AM
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the sad thing is ireland could overtake BD, if they're given the right opportunities, given the sufficient support by the boards, irish cricket is willing to do what they need to to improve the game of cricket in ireland so they can consistently produce world class players. the BD board at current isn't willing to do that.
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  #18  
Old October 25, 2012, 02:20 AM
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Ian Pont Ian Pont is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gowza
the sad thing is ireland could overtake BD, if they're given the right opportunities, given the sufficient support by the boards, irish cricket is willing to do what they need to to improve the game of cricket in ireland so they can consistently produce world class players. the BD board at current isn't willing to do that.
I don't think there is any doubt about that. So it's not Ireland COULD but WILL in time with the right environment.

What Richard correctly refers to in his posts is having the right set of indicators and circumstances to develop world-class results through best-practices. This is entirely what leading coaching set-ups in Australia, England do.

The reality about working in Bangladesh is that you have to accept the circumstances and simply get on with your job. You cannot change that culture off the field and in the board room that foreign coaches complain about. It is not the Head Coach's role - it is that of the President and Cricket Operations to decide on what the infrastructure and environment must be.

Coaches like Richard are successful for two reasons:

1. They are good
2. They are committed

The clue is right there...
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Old October 25, 2012, 03:03 AM
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I guess instead of going for someone better we should have stuck with Jamie Siddons. Yes it was time for a change but at this point i dont think there will be any coaches willing to coach the BD national team. I dont think we will find someone as dedicated as Siddons or Ian. Id like Ian to coach the team but i dont think the board is interested. What will happen now?
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Old October 27, 2012, 05:04 AM
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I am keeping my fingers crossed for Ian and Fountain. We need someone like them who truly care and also highly qualified to provide hands on training...
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  #21  
Old October 28, 2012, 05:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reyme
I am keeping my fingers crossed for Ian and Fountain. We need someone like them who truly care and also highly qualified to provide hands on training...
Let me say that Julien will likely never return for two reasons:

1. He has a better paid role and is highly respected in Pakistan
2. He was let down by Mustafa Kamal who shook his hand on an extension to his role and then Julien's job was advertised while he attended his dying father in England

From my viewpoint, I have been a successful Head Coach with Dhaka Gladiators and was asked to return by Mustafa Kamal in February to be with the national team in some capacity. I have heard nothing from the BCB since.

In life, you can only ever judge people by their actions and not their words. This is never more true than in Bangladesh. Those of us who have worked there understand that.
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Old October 28, 2012, 05:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian Pont
Let me say that Julien will likely never return for two reasons:

1. He has a better paid role and is highly respected in Pakistan
2. He was let down by Mustafa Kamal who shook his hand on an extension to his role and then Julien's job was advertised while he attended his dying father in England

From my viewpoint, I have been a successful Head Coach with Dhaka Gladiators and was asked to return by Mustafa Kamal in February to be with the national team in some capacity. I have heard nothing from the BCB since.

In life, you can only ever judge people by their actions and not their words. This is never more true than in Bangladesh. Those of us who have worked there understand that.
Coach, with two coaching stints in the country you now realize the ugly truth: we, as a nation/peoples, are disgraceful. We have no dignity. All politicians are liars, and in Bangladesh everyone is a politician. Subcontinent in general is a cesspool of corrupt and uncivilized people, Bangladesh epitomizes that.

I was raised by my parents with the understanding that a promise or a commitment must be kept to fulfillment even if it breaks your back...next time don't make such promises! I was taught by my religion that the laborer must be paid for his work "before the sweat from his brow dries." Clearly those who made deals with Coach Fountain and those who contracted you to coach in BPL weren't raised with such ideals.

But knowing this, people like you and Richard McInnes have the passion to continue and try to help a nation that really doesn't care to help herself. We as fans can only salute you and wish we had the same conviction in our day to day lives.

So I ask you, why wait for the BCB, why not put in an offer for the HC job yourself? Get your people to talk to their people. We could use a guy who unlike Pybus is under no false assurance of what to expect once the plane lands.
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  #23  
Old October 28, 2012, 05:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by al Furqaan
Coach, with two coaching stints in the country you now realize the ugly truth: we, as a nation/peoples, are disgraceful. We have no dignity. All politicians are liars, and in Bangladesh everyone is a politician. Subcontinent in general is a cesspool of corrupt and uncivilized people, Bangladesh epitomizes that.

I was raised by my parents with the understanding that a promise or a commitment must be kept to fulfillment even if it breaks your back...next time don't make such promises! I was taught by my religion that the laborer must be paid for his work "before the sweat from his brow dries." Clearly those who made deals with Coach Fountain and those who contracted you to coach in BPL weren't raised with such ideals.

But knowing this, people like you and Richard McInnes have the passion to continue and try to help a nation that really doesn't care to help herself. We as fans can only salute you and wish we had the same conviction in our day to day lives.

So I ask you, why wait for the BCB, why not put in an offer for the HC job yourself? Get your people to talk to their people. We could use a guy who unlike Pybus is under no false assurance of what to expect once the plane lands.
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Old October 28, 2012, 06:19 AM
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With new president or upcoming new president we can only hope for the best...

Yes, agree with Al Furqaan, instead of wait for BCB why not just contact BCB through agents about your desire to coach BD and your expectation in return. You never know, anything is possible. I do believe they are looking for a full time coach who will stay in Dhaka permanently like McInnes.
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  #25  
Old October 28, 2012, 01:58 PM
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Ian Pont Ian Pont is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by al Furqaan
Coach, with two coaching stints in the country you now realize the ugly truth: we, as a nation/peoples, are disgraceful. We have no dignity. All politicians are liars, and in Bangladesh everyone is a politician. Subcontinent in general is a cesspool of corrupt and uncivilized people, Bangladesh epitomizes that.

I was raised by my parents with the understanding that a promise or a commitment must be kept to fulfillment even if it breaks your back...next time don't make such promises! I was taught by my religion that the laborer must be paid for his work "before the sweat from his brow dries." Clearly those who made deals with Coach Fountain and those who contracted you to coach in BPL weren't raised with such ideals.

But knowing this, people like you and Richard McInnes have the passion to continue and try to help a nation that really doesn't care to help herself. We as fans can only salute you and wish we had the same conviction in our day to day lives.

So I ask you, why wait for the BCB, why not put in an offer for the HC job yourself? Get your people to talk to their people. We could use a guy who unlike Pybus is under no false assurance of what to expect once the plane lands.
This is, without doubt, singularly the best forum post I have ever read.
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