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  #1  
Old November 30, 2014, 05:46 PM
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al Furqaan al Furqaan is offline
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Default Bangladesh vs Associates: ICC support

Critics of Bangladesh often argue that if Ireland or Afghanistan had been given the same support BD gets, they'd be better sides. Of course we'll never know for sure, until and if, those countries get a crack at 14 years of Test cricket. Maybe 20 years from now we will if IRE/AFG get Test status in the coming years.

However, I think the ICC has given at least as much support to the top Associates, if not more than was given to Bangladesh.

Fixtures Against Top Sides:

From 1986 till getting Test status in 2000, Bangladesh played 36 ODIs against Test nations. However, only 2 were part of a bilateral series against WI in 1999. The rest were played as World Cups, Asia Cups, or triangular series usually involving fellow Associates, Kenya. Bangladesh were supported by the ACC by being invited to every Asia Cup tournament beginning in 1986.

Ireland, since qualifying for their maiden World Cup in 2005, have played 25 ODIs vs Test nations, many of which have been bilateral series or one-offs vs teams touring England.

Afghanistan, meanwhile managed to secure 2 one-off ODIs vs PAK and AUS even before qualifying for their first world cup. Additionally, AFG were also invited to the 2014 Asia Cup, and it is not totally certain that they would have qualified had there been a qualifier. Afghanistan have already played a total of 6 bilateral ODIs vs Test nations before their first WC match.

Regular Fixtures:

Bangladesh were Associates in a different era. There was no World Cricket League or Intercontinental Cup in those days. Bangladesh had to rely on irregular tours against visiting A teams or club sides for international fixtures outside the World Cup Qualifying Tournament. Had Bangladesh played in the WCL, its very likely our development would have been a little bit quicker than it was. A large part of the reason why Afghanistan have risen so rapidly is due their ability to play regularly against similarly ranked sides in the competitive atmosphere of official ODI cricket.

Conclusion:

The idea that Bangladesh were undeservingly pampered by the doting ICC is largely a myth. Its almost completely false. The premise is actually rooted on idea that Bangladeshis are inherently less inclined for the rigors of cricket. It is almost always perpetuated by Indian and Pakistani critics who are loathe to see Bangladesh at the top level.

However, Bangladesh were lucky. Far luckier than Ireland or Afghanistan. They were lucky to have had the fanatical popular support of crores of people, in a largely secure country. They were also lucky to be in a time (turn of the millenium) and place (Asia) where power politics within the game meant being elevated to Test status benefitted the powers to be.

Ireland and Afghanistan are both better than Bangladesh when they got Test status, or even several years aftwards, and thus deserve Test status themselves. However, it is most probably not correct to say that they have lacked support or that if they had the same support Bangladesh had, they'd be significantly better Test sides.
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  #2  
Old November 30, 2014, 07:56 PM
Donal C Donal C is offline
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Bangladesh and Kenya got screwed over in terms of matches back in the 90s.

Ireland and other Associates are getting screwed over in terms of matches as of now.

Good old ICC.

"War, war never changes..."

Or in this case

"Cricket administration, cricket administration never changes"

If you get that reference please give yourself a pat on the back btw.

"However, it is most probably not correct to say that they have lacked support or that if they had the same support Bangladesh had, they'd be significantly better Test sides"

Afghanistan are getting plenty of support. Stadiums being built for them, Asia cup inclusion, decent exposure. The Asian bloc are treating them pretty well I think.

Us on the other hand, bar the invaluable county experience we get nothing really. Even qualifying for underage world cups is unfair. Afghanistan play off against teams of a calibre I'd expect to find passed out at 3 am outside of a club i.e. Kuwait, Saudi Arabia etc. We have to face teams of an actually decent standard in Scotland.

We get 1 game every two years from England. Afghanistan have the Asia Cup now. Hardly fair?

Feel even worse for the others. Scorland get barely anything and the Dutch will now get nothing at all without ODI status.

Although I disagree with some of your points. i feel if we had regular series and a decent income like Bangladesh have had after 14 years I feel we'd have a better record to show for it.
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  #3  
Old November 30, 2014, 08:41 PM
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al Furqaan al Furqaan is offline
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Yeah Ireland get shafted compared to AFG. It will be interesting to see of AFG will continue to get support once they kick the Associates out of the world cup. I really hope they change their minds and the world cup goes to 12 teams.

As far as income, I think our income was similar to Ireland's preg test status. We get more money now due to being a test nation.

Afghanistan are proving they are BD lite. Drew 2-2 with Zim in ZIM and now down 2-0 to the UAE who have whopped them in both matches.

Ireland, I'm not sure would fare much better than us had they played 14 years of tests. Only test class bowler is Rankin and I'm not sure he'd have single handedly won Tests.

Regardless the ICC's neglect of Ireland is criminal. Ireland have potential if they were to be given test status now.

What is the upcoming talent like, Donal? Is Ireland going strong or will they fade like Kenya?
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  #4  
Old November 30, 2014, 09:01 PM
Donal C Donal C is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by al Furqaan
Yeah Ireland get shafted compared to AFG. It will be interesting to see of AFG will continue to get support once they kick the Associates out of the world cup. I really hope they change their minds and the world cup goes to 12 teams.

As far as income, I think our income was similar to Ireland's preg test status. We get more money now due to being a test nation.

Afghanistan are proving they are BD lite. Drew 2-2 with Zim in ZIM and now down 2-0 to the UAE who have whopped them in both matches.

Ireland, I'm not sure would fare much better than us had they played 14 years of tests. Only test class bowler is Rankin and I'm not sure he'd have single handedly won Tests.

Regardless the ICC's neglect of Ireland is criminal. Ireland have potential if they were to be given test status now.

What is the upcoming talent like, Donal? Is Ireland going strong or will they fade like Kenya?
Only way the ICC will reverse the decision is if one of the associates reaches the quarters or the Associates successfully appeal to the CAS. However the "qualification" system, which really only has 1 spot for grabs, might ensure the ICC get their way.

Afghanistan are an inconsistent if not overrated team IMO. Batting wise they've improved a bit with the likes of Ghani and Shenwari being good bats, but they seem to have 2 modes. Block everything and pray something happens which leads normally to them being 80/5 after 30 overs or slog everything which leads to them being 70 all out. A freak partnership won them the game against you in the Asia cup.

Bowling wise Nabi is a decent spinner and Shapoor a good pacer, thats about it IMO. Sadly Hamid Hassan looks to be finished. Once a lethal pacer now hes going for 8 an over vs UAE. I have been MIGHTILY impressed by the UAE lately though. Did reasonably well down under and now comfortably beating Afghanistan are excellent signs for them.

Agree with bowling. Murtagh is a fantastic county bowler so IMO would be decent enough in tests. Dockrell isnt a good limited overs spinner but tests would be ideal for him. Other than that Kevin O Brien is always in the wickets but medium pace is all we really have sadly.

Upcoming talent seems to be promising as of now. Andy Poynter was good in the world twenty 20 this year although hes in his mid 20s, McBrine may be good for us jury is still out on him, Stuart Poynter has a 100 vs SL A and a 50 vs an Aus A side that featured several Ashes players so has potential. Craig Young has been in outstanding form for us, took a five fer on ODI debut and done well down under.

Andy Balbirnie is our biggest talent so far. Prolific in county second XI and just yesterday smashed 123 off 97 balls as we comfortably downed NZ A. Have high hopes for him. Some u19 players like McCollum and Allen have done excellent versus European associate u19 teams but they're too young to judge. The Interpros will mould them into top class players hopefully.

We had an absolute nightmare of an acclimatization tour where about 9 players got injured. Good thing was the youngsters got regular cricket, even if performances where at times awful, although they were played wildly out of position. They'll learn from it I'm sure.

Good thing is some of our youngsters will develop in either county or Interpro level, ensuring they get regular chances. We need more underage and A tours though.

Also we like sending our young guys to play grade level in Australia which keeps them improving.

Last year we sent Peter Chase, Young and McCarter (who was impressive in LO's for Gloucesterhire) to work with Craig McDermott the Aussie bowling coach and it worked wonders. Young, who was released from Sussex and on the verge of quitting will almost definitely play the WC, Chase took a 5 fer for Durham on his debut and McCarter as I mentioned improved a lot as well.

Hopefully the aforementioned will progress and keep us improving.
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  #5  
Old December 1, 2014, 12:14 PM
brockley brockley is offline
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On Bangladesh and Zimbabwe they are loathe to play the Associates,worried they will lose test/one day status.
The t20 world cup was 14 now 10,same as world cup 2018,icc says no to olympics and commonwealth games.All left for associates is to play the lowest test team home and away and beat them,which is a hard target.
I think ireland like kenya has declined,the bowling much weaker,little chance for ireland young pacers to develop against international teams.I think afghanistan is beating them now,altho always lose to UAE.That said UAE should play in the Asia cup.
The ICC is now not growing the game,top 6 associate sides yes get more but the other associates will get less.The sad thing is the demise of kenya,holland and canada,where is the icc policy on this.
Really 2015 world cup is likely the last we will see of scotland,ireland and maybe UAE.Afghanistan has the Asia cup every 2 years,ireland and scotland really only have 1 solitary game each season which is not enough.
I expect the associates to fade,sadly ireland has a lot of players in their 30's,how will the ICC develop them in2 the future.
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  #6  
Old December 1, 2014, 12:24 PM
MHRAM MHRAM is offline
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Well ICC is a garbage organization.

The idea to should be to spread the game. Given in 2007 you would expect cricket to spread to different parts in the world and 7 years later you can hardly see any "globalization". Everyday, its about shutting the door on the associates. Just look at Netherlands in this year's world T20, what fantastic performance they have provided!
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  #7  
Old December 1, 2014, 12:35 PM
Donal C Donal C is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brockley
On Bangladesh and Zimbabwe they are loathe to play the Associates,worried they will lose test/one day status.
The t20 world cup was 14 now 10,same as world cup 2018,icc says no to olympics and commonwealth games.All left for associates is to play the lowest test team home and away and beat them,which is a hard target.
I think ireland like kenya has declined,the bowling much weaker,little chance for ireland young pacers to develop against international teams.I think afghanistan is beating them now,altho always lose to UAE.That said UAE should play in the Asia cup.
The ICC is now not growing the game,top 6 associate sides yes get more but the other associates will get less.The sad thing is the demise of kenya,holland and canada,where is the icc policy on this.
Really 2015 world cup is likely the last we will see of scotland,ireland and maybe UAE.Afghanistan has the Asia cup every 2 years,ireland and scotland really only have 1 solitary game each season which is not enough.
I expect the associates to fade,sadly ireland has a lot of players in their 30's,how will the ICC develop them in2 the future.
Afghanistan havent beaten us since 2011.

Stirling - 23
Young - 22 or so
Dockrell - 23
Chase - 20
Balbirnie - 23
Wilson - 27 i think
A Poynter - mid twenties

Porterfield just turned 30 and Kevin and Niall both have another 4 years left IMO. Yes bowling is a bit weaker but thats more down to Rankin leaving than Johnston and co. retiring
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