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Forget Cricket Talk about anything [within Board Rules, of course :) ]

View Poll Results: Should Pakistan do any or all of the following?
Acknowledge its crimes against humanity and the Bangladeshi people committed during 1971? 21 91.30%
Unconditionally apologize for the aforesaid crimes? 19 82.61%
Offer mutually agreed upon reparations for the aforesaid crimes? 10 43.48%
Proactively assist the ICT and bring alleged war criminals on its soil to justice? 10 43.48%
Maintain its current narrative of denial and misguidance and do none of the above? 0 0%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 23. You may not vote on this poll

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  #26  
Old November 10, 2012, 10:37 PM
Zunaid Zunaid is offline
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From a Class V book:

Quote:
"In 1965, the Pakistani army conquered several areas of India, and when India was on the point of being defeated, she requested the United Nations to arrange a ceasefire. After 1965, India, with the help of Hindus living in East Pakistan, instigated the people living there against the people of West Pakistan, and finally invaded East Pakistan in December 1971. The conspiracy resulted in the separation of East Pakistan from us. All of us should receive military training and be prepared to fight the enemy
From this article here. This is a Times of India article so use your judgment.

Pak textbooks build hate culture against India

ARIF MOHAMMED KHAN, Dec 27, 2008, 02.39am IST

The empowerment of terror in Pakistan has not happened overnight. This is the logical culmination of the politics and policies pursued by Pakistan for years now.
Terrorism in Pakistan has its roots in the culture of hate and the ethos of inequality on the ground of religious faith, leading to their being deeply ingrained in the Pakistani psyche and mindset.



more
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  #27  
Old November 10, 2012, 10:50 PM
HereWeGo HereWeGo is offline
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Pakistanis think everything is a conspiracy by CIA Mossad and RAW...... Infact one of their major TV station broadcasted 9/11 conspiracy documentary and sold it as hard fact.... A documentary produced by Dylan Avery (not even a college grad) and the version of the film probably changed 4 to 5 times....

Anyways the first thing to solving any problem is to identify that there is a problem which is not happening. They are treating the Baloch people the same way as they once did to the Bengalis. Today PPP is trying to blame the Army generals (mainly Musharraf) for the crisis in that province, where as their own leader (ZA Bhutto) was one of the main architects behind the 1971 war which they still fail to recognize.
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  #28  
Old November 11, 2012, 12:49 AM
oronnya oronnya is offline
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I have a Pakistani friend here.. We both are very interested in international politics and we did discuss 1971 once... I particularly asked her how do they portray the history of 1971 and how does the younger generation feel about it.. She told me they hardly read anything about our liberation war ...It's like we were the "Deshodrohi" ... But many of them did their own research and feel that Pakistan should definitely apologize to us...

They hate their political system and the situation anyway.. Like my friend was actively involved in student politics.. But eventually when she found out that most of the promises made by her party leaders are just publicity stunts.. she gave up on it.. She was utterly dissapointed and decided to settle abroad...
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  #29  
Old November 11, 2012, 01:02 AM
oronnya oronnya is offline
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On topic- no matter how many shundori Hina Rabbani they send- We Can Never Forget and Move Forward .. Period..

Even an apology is not enough, not even a compensation but for the sake of the peaceful diplomatic relationship an apology is the least we are asking for.. Why are they asking us to forget? The way she is saying to forget the past seems like it's just simple like that Then why is it so hard to say "sorry" .. Why don't they just say it and move forward.. That should be pretty simple as well, isn't it?
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  #30  
Old November 11, 2012, 03:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ammark
Sorry for the blanket generalisation, but I will say they do not educate their youth on anything and are in denial over everything. Yesterday on BBC, they were in denial about Malala Yusufzai and believe her story to be a foreign conspiracy. As far as education policy goes, have a read from this on their education policy, written by my father's civil service batchmate from pre-1971.

A steaming pile of crap if ever a country was one. They have only themselves to blame. I dont "need" an apology from Pakistan. I am proud to be a Bangali and Bangladeshi and proud of our achievements inspite of Pakistan.
I thought the Malala issue was getting a lot of positive attention in Pakistan with some minister offering a PIA jet to take her to any hospital in the world, etc. It was also surprising to note quite a bit of public blowback against that mullah who set up that young Christian girl in the blasphemy case.

The funny thing is, with as much double dealing as the Pakistani government must engage in, who knows if they don't have guys on the take from actors as diverse as the Taliban, Mossad, and RAW. Would make for a hell of Clancy novel.
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  #31  
Old November 12, 2012, 02:05 AM
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Acknowledge its crimes against humanity and the Bangladeshi people committed during 1971?
Unconditionally apologize for the aforesaid crimes?
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  #32  
Old November 12, 2012, 08:14 AM
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Quote:
Acknowledge its crimes against (humanity and the Bangladeshi people); ..... committed during 1971
Unconditionally apologize for the aforesaid crimes
Read it with a pause....
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  #33  
Old November 12, 2012, 10:08 AM
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Can we also ask for reparations? I find it very strange that there are no international law like that. I think Germany paid reparation for both WWI and WWII but that was only due to the pressure from European and American alliances. No country should be just left alone after they commit a genocide like that.

In our case, they killed millions of civilians, ruined our economy, destroyed our infrastructures, systematically killed our intellectuals and the list goes on. We don't need to beg them to apologies. Who cares if they do or don't. That won't change any of our feelings to any of the martyrs, the mothers, the sisters, the orphans and their sacrifices. We will still wake up early on 21st Feb and go to Shaheed Minar. We will still hoist our flag everyday with pride. We will still sing Sonar Bangla everyday at school assembly and plaster our roof our balcony our walls with flags on Dec.16th.

I don't care about their apology. I want reparations.
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  #34  
Old November 12, 2012, 10:49 AM
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Although I would like the first 4, first 2 are a must. They cannot go on behaving like nothing has happened. Parvez Mosharrof apologized, but I am not sure whether I would consider that a formal apology.

If Hina Rabbani's best is to forgive and forget, it has to be preceded by proper acknowledgment and apology. If not, she can go home.
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  #35  
Old November 12, 2012, 11:00 AM
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It's been 40+ years, why do we care about an apology anymore? Look at where we are today (in spite of having a zillion problems, not to mention a nation born to a massacre/blood bath) and look at where they are. What goes around comes around and Pakistan today is a failed state and will likely continue to be one - just the harsh truth, no offense to anyone.

They had their chances to apologize, but four decades is long enough for us to say we don't care about an apology anymore and that they can continue to hide international terrorists and go bomb and destroy themselves further for all we care.
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  #36  
Old November 12, 2012, 11:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mufi_02
Can we also ask for reparations? I find it very strange that there are no international law like that. I think Germany paid reparation for both WWI and WWII but that was only due to the pressure from European and American alliances. No country should be just left alone after they commit a genocide like that.

In our case, they killed millions of civilians, ruined our economy, destroyed our infrastructures, systematically killed our intellectuals and the list goes on. We don't need to beg them to apologies. Who cares if they do or don't. That won't change any of our feelings to any of the martyrs, the mothers, the sisters, the orphans and their sacrifices. We will still wake up early on 21st Feb and go to Shaheed Minar. We will still hoist our flag everyday with pride. We will still sing Sonar Bangla everyday at school assembly and plaster our roof our balcony our walls with flags on Dec.16th.

I don't care about their apology. I want reparations.
Of course there is provision for reparations in international law! Not only that, bilateral and multilateral pressure can be exerted as well.

Italy agreed to pay $5 billion dollars to Libya in 2008 for their 32-year occupation of the country that ended in 1943. Furthermore, three Kenyans very recently (October 2012) were allowed by the English High Court to sue the British government for damages and compensation for the torture and abuse they suffered during the Mau Mau Rebellion, a seven-year insurgency against the British colonial administration in the 1950s.

These instances show that it is never too late to claim justice and reparations.
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  #37  
Old November 12, 2012, 11:32 AM
HereWeGo HereWeGo is offline
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News is that the PM is not going to pakistan for the summit... not sure if that is anyways linked to the refusal to apologise...

Reparation is a nice thought but given the state of Pakistan economy at presant, that will not happen...
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  #38  
Old November 12, 2012, 11:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Navo
Of course there is provision for reparations in international law! Not only that, bilateral and multilateral pressure can be exerted as well.
That's good to know. But I don't think any BD government has the guts to take the reparation matter into international court. Can any shaheed's family or victims personally apply for reparation in international court?

Quote:
Originally Posted by HereWeGo
News is that the PM is not going to pakistan for the summit... not sure if that is anyways linked to the refusal to apologise...

Reparation is a nice thought but given the state of Pakistan economy at presant, that will not happen...
Yeah agree but also their economy isn't our concern. They committed genocide and now we want reparations. If they can't pay full then pay in installments. With the amount of damage that was done in East Pakistan, if they pay the right after 40 years, we can build few Padma Bridges without IMF, World Bank and etc.
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  #39  
Old November 12, 2012, 12:29 PM
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^ It'll be hard, if not impossible, for an international court to hear this matter. The International Criminal Court did not exist then so it does not have the temporal jurisdiction to hear this matter (it can only adjudicate on war crimes since the late 90s). The case of Pakistan vs. India (Yes, Pakistan brought charges against India for the handling of its 195 Prisoners of War!) was brought to the International Court of Justice but was removed from the list as Pakistan withdrew its case after the tripartite Delhi agreement of August 28, 1973 which led to the POWs being sent back to Pakistan.

We could set up a Tribunal here on reparations or have the High Court order reparations but beside its symbolic value, it would mean little in terms of financial enforcement. Interestingly, given the activist streak of the Pakistani judiciary, whereby they regularly bring their own Prime Ministers to court, it is theoretically possible that a Bangalee war victim filing a writ petition in Pakistan against the Pakistani State might get a judgment in their favour and reparations...
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  #40  
Old November 12, 2012, 01:27 PM
Shubho Shubho is offline
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Let them start with an apology first. Until there is an official state apology, I will only trust Pakistanis as far as I can throw them.
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  #41  
Old November 12, 2012, 07:49 PM
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We have a better chance of becoming a 1st world country in a few years than Pakistan saying sorry, let alone paying reparations.
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  #42  
Old November 12, 2012, 08:29 PM
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Pakistan still has a higher per capita than us...purchase power wise... And we aren't yet even a middle income country.... If these kind of politics continues in BD, we will go back by three steps by the next election...get ready for another Lagatar hartal etc nonsense with the care taker issue...so next year's growth is gone...if not more....Not that, a Pakistani Sorry will matter in that...

These are separate issues...
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  #43  
Old November 12, 2012, 09:00 PM
HereWeGo HereWeGo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BANFAN
Pakistan still has a higher per capita than us...purchase power wise... And we aren't yet even a middle income country.... If these kind of politics continues in BD, we will go back by three steps by the next election...get ready for another Lagatar hartal etc nonsense with the care taker issue...so next year's growth is gone...if not more....Not that, a Pakistani Sorry will matter in that...

These are separate issues...
Bangladesh is doing better in more economic parameters compared to Pakistan. Enough said...

Also if PM's refusal to go sends a loud and clear message than so be it. We are hardly reliant on Pakistan and even a complete halt in trade with Pakistan would have negligible effect in our economy..
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  #44  
Old November 12, 2012, 09:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shuziburo
Although I would like the first 4, first 2 are a must. They cannot go on behaving like nothing has happened. Parvez Mosharrof apologized, but I am not sure whether I would consider that a formal apology.

If Hina Rabbani's best is to forgive and forget, it has to be preceded by proper acknowledgment and apology. If not, she can go home.
During his July, 2002 visit to Bangladesh, Parvez Musharraf expressed "regret for the excesses" of 1971. According to the official Pakistani narrative, shared by the Razakar community and quite a few of their children I might add, those "excesses" come down to about 22,000 civilian casualties. Musharraf neither acknowledged any detail nor actually apologized, and much like (the considerably hotter) Hina Rabbani Khar, wanted to "bury the past" and avoid moral and judicial accountability of the Pakistani military, the PPP, the Muslim League, Jamaat and their supporters in the process.

His statements:

Quote:
On his arrival in Dhaka on July 29, Musharraf first visited the national memorial at Savar, on the outskirts of Dhaka, to pay homage to the country's liberation war heroes. He wrote in the visitors' book at the memorial: "I bring sincere greetings and good wishes from the Islamic Republic of Pakistan for their Bangladeshi brethren and sisters. We wish this land and its people peace, progress and prosperity." The Pakistani leader continued: "Your brothers and sisters in Pakistan share the pain of the events of 1971. The excesses during that unfortunate period are regrettable. Let us bury the past in a spirit of magnanimity. Let not the light of the future be dimmed. Let us move forward together. I am confident that with our joint resolve Pakistan-Bangladesh friendship will flourish in the years to come."
And then:

Quote:
In his banquet address the next day, he said: "My brothers and sisters in Pakistan share with their fellow brothers and sisters in Bangladesh profound grief over the parameters of the events of 1971. As a result of this tragedy a family having common religious and cultural heritage and united by a joint struggle for independence and a shared vision of the future, was torn apart. We feel sorry for this tragedy, and the pain it caused to both our peoples."
That kind of generalization while lamenting the "family" breaking apart may be good enough for some to call an "apology", especially Pakistanis and their Bangalistani allies eager to sidestep the facts and avoid responsibility, but not for some others such as myself. I agree with reporter Haroon Habib when he writes:

Quote:
BUT will this apology really do? Has the Pakistani leader honoured history through his statement? Did he really pay respects to those who fell prey to the excesses of the Pakistani forces? Several Bangladeshi dailies ran editorials praising Musharraf for expressing his 'regrets' and 'sorrow', and characterised his words either as a "good gesture" or a "good beginning". But some other dailies in their editorial comments and articles termed Musharraf's apology a "cosmetic" one and "a cunning effort to sidetrack the historic crime against humanity". This section felt that Musharraf's words indicated no change in the old Pakistani mindset although it sounded deceptively so in the changed environment.
Anyway, here's the original FRONTLINE REPORT.
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Last edited by Sohel; November 13, 2012 at 06:30 AM..
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  #45  
Old December 15, 2012, 11:19 AM
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BANFAN BANFAN is offline
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Views in Pakistan is changing ... Even though very slowly.

[[বাংলাদেশ সম্পর্কে গড়পড়তা পাকিস্তানিরা কী ভাবে? আমাদেরকে তারা কোন নজরে দেখে বা মূল্যায়ন করে? এর সহজ উত্তর— দু’একটি ব্যতিক্রম এবং বুদ্ধিজীবী মহলে ৭১’র ঘটনাবলী নিয়ে সত্যভাষণের কিছু চেষ্টা ছাড়া বাংলাদেশি তথা বাঙালিদের ব্যাপারে তারা নেতিবাচক ধারণায় ‍তাড়িত। পাকিস্তানের প্রভাবশালী পত্রিকা ডন.কম এর ভাষায়— “পাকিস্তানিরা বাংলাদেশের চোখের দিকে তাকাতে রাজি নয়। তারা ১৯৭১ সালের ঘটনাবলীর খুবই খেলো ধরনের এক গল্প-গাথার আড়ালে নিজেদের লুকোতে চায়, যে গল্পে সেই ঘটনাকে স্রেফ ষড়যন্ত্র হিসেবেই বোঝানো হয়েছে। খুব ভাল হতো যদি একত্রে থাকা যেত। কিন্তু প্রশ্ন হলো, কে ষড়যন্ত্র করেছিল কার বিরুদ্ধে? বাঙালিদের করার-ই বা কী ছিল তখন? কীভাবে তারা বিচ্ছিন্নতার মোড়ে পৌঁছালো?” এই কথাগুলো ডন বলেছে সম্প্রতি তাদের প্রকাশিত ‘দ্য ক্রো ইজ হোয়াইট, বেঙ্গল ইজ পাকিস্তান’ শিরোনামের একটি লেখায়। তাহির মেহদি রচিত ৪ পর্বের ওই লেখায় বাংলাদেশ তথা বাঙালিকে ভিন্নভাবে দেখার চেষ্টা করা হয়েছে। দু’একটি বিচ্যুতি ছাড়া বাংলাদেশ সম্পর্কে গড়পড়তা পাকিস্তানি মূল্যায়নের ব্যতিক্রম এ লেখাটি। আমাদের এখানে স্বাধীনতা বিরোধী রাজনৈতিক মহলটি ’৭১-এ তাদের ভূমিকায় দোষ স্বীকার করতে না চাইলেও এ লেখায় একজন পাকিস্তানি হিসেবে লেখক ’৭১ ও এর আগের সব নেতিবাচক ঘটনাবলির জন্য প্রকারান্তরে প্রায় সব দায়ই পশ্চিম পাকিস্তানিদের বলে মেনে নিয়েছেন। আগ্রহোদ্দীপক এ লেখাটির প্রথম পর্বের ভাষান্তর লেখকের অনুমতি নিয়ে বাংলানিউজের পাঠকদের জন্য উপসস্থাপন করা হলো। বাকি পর্বগুলো ধারাবাহিকভাবে যাবে ]]

কাব্যে অতিরঞ্জন অনুমোদিত, ব্যবসায়ে অসততাও সহনীয়— তবে এসবেরও একটা সীমারেখা আছে। আপনি কালো একটি কাককে কখনো সাদা বলতে পারেন না। কিন্তু রাজনীতির মঞ্চে আসুন— এখানে সব অসম্ভবই সম্ভব হতে পারে।

এখানে এমনকি ‘বিচার’-এর প্রতিশব্দ হিসেবে ‘অবিচার’কে দাঁড় করিয়ে দেয়া যায় অথবা কমপক্ষে ‘সমতা’ শব্দটির ব্যবহারে সহজেই ‘অসমতা’কে ঢেকে দেওয়া যায়। যদি আপনারা ভেবে থাকেন আমি অতিরঞ্জন করছি— তাহলে বলবো আমাদের দেশের অতীত ইতিহাসের একটি গুরুত্বপূর্ণ অধ্যায় পুণর্ভ্রমণ করে আসতে।

১৯৪৭ সালে যেসব এলাকা নিয়ে পাকিস্তান গঠিত হয়, সেসব এলাকা আগে পৃথক পৃথক রীতি-কায়দায় শাসন করতো বৃটিশরা। বাংলা, পাঞ্জাব, সিন্ধু আর পাখতুনওয়া (ত‍ৎকালীন এনডব্লিউএফপি অর্থাৎ উত্তর-পশ্চিমাঞ্চলীয় সীমান্ত প্রদেশ) ছিল নির্বাচিত গণপরিষদ শাসিত প্রদেশ। বালুচিস্তান শাসিত হতো একজন অ্যাপয়েন্টেড কমিশনারের দ্বারা, উপজাতীয় এলাকাগুলো রাজনৈতিক প্রতিনিধির দ্বারা। আর এর বাইরে ছিল বেশকিছু বৃটিশ অনুগত ‘রাজা’ শাসিত অঞ্চল যেগুলোকে বলা হতো প্রিন্সলি স্টেট্‌স। আকারে এই রাজ্যগুলো ক্ষুদ্র থেকে বৃহ‍ৎ সব পদেরই ছিল। এএমবি নামের রাজ্যটি এতই ক্ষুদ্র ছিল যে ১৯৭০-এ দেওয়া টারবেলা বাঁধের ফলে সৃষ্ট হ্রদে তলিয়ে যায় এটি................................



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  #46  
Old December 16, 2012, 07:22 AM
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BANFAN BANFAN is offline
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Quote:
পাকিস্তানি প্রভাবশালী দৈনিকের সংবাদ
সময় হয়েছে ক্ষমা চাওয়ার


ঢাকা: স্বাধীনতার পর একে একে ৪১ বছর পেরিয়ে গেছে। এক সময়ের রুগ্‌ণ, যুদ্ধ বিধ্বস্ত বাংলাদেশ আজ স্বাবলম্বী, দক্ষিণ এশিয়ার অন্যতম আঞ্চলিক শক্তি। কিন্তু ৪১ বছর আগের সেই ক্ষত এখনো মুছে যায়নি বাংলাদেশের শরীর থেকে। একাত্তরের সেই অপূরণীয় ক্ষতির জন্য বারবার পাকিস্তানকে ক্ষমা চাওয়ার আহ্বান জানিয়েছে বাংলাদেশ। কিন্তু এ বিষয়টি বরাবরের মতোই উপেক্ষা করে এসেছে পাকিস্তান। এমনকি আন্তর্জাতিক পর্যায়েও ব্যাপারটি নিয়ে আলোচনা-সমালোচনা চলছে। ১৬ ডিসেম্বর রোববার বাংলাদেশের মহান বিজয় দিবস উপলক্ষে এ সংক্রান্ত একটি প্রতিবেদন প্রকাশ করেছে প্রভাবশালী পাকিস্তানি দৈনিক এক্সপ্রেস ট্রিবিউন। উল্লেখ্য, এটিই পাকিস্তানের প্রথম আন্তর্জাতিক অনুমোদনপ্রাপ্ত (নিউ ইয়র্ক টাইমসের) পত্রিকা।

চলতি বছরের নভেম্বর মাসে যখন পাকিস্তানের পররাষ্ট্রমন্ত্রী হিনা রাব্বানি খার ইসলামাবাদের ডি-৮ সম্মেলনের আমন্ত্রণ নিয়ে বাংলাদেশের প্রধানমন্ত্রী শেখ হাসিনার কাছে এসেছিলেন, তখন পাকিস্তানকে একটি শর্ত জুড়ে দেওয়া হয়েছিল। তা হলো, ১৯৭১ সালের যুদ্ধাপরাধের জন্য ক্ষমা চাইতে হবে।
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  #47  
Old December 16, 2012, 07:29 AM
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Default জটিল রাজনীতির কেন্দ্রবিন্দু বেলুচিস্তান

Quote:

ঢাকা: বেলুচিস্তানের শাসন ব্যবস্থার পরিস্থিতি তদন্ত করার নির্দেশ দিয়েছে পাকিস্তানের সর্বোচ্চ আদালত। আদালতের এই নির্দেশ পাকিস্তানের দীর্ঘ দিনের জঙ্গিবাদের ইস্যুটিকে সামনে নিয়ে আসল। দেশটির নিরাপত্তার ক্ষেত্রে প্রধান মাথা ব্যথা হচ্ছে জঙ্গিবাদ।

গত কয়েক বছরে বেলুচিস্তানে জঙ্গিবাদ বেড়ে গেছে। বেলুচের রাজনীতিবিদরা মূলধারার রাজনীতি ছেড়ে জাতীয়তাবাদী (স্বাধীনতাকামী) পক্ষ নেওয়ায় জঙ্গিবাদ বাড়ছে প্রদেশটিতে। যারা আমাদের পক্ষে নেই তারা আমাদের বিরুদ্ধে-স্বাধীনতাকামী বিদ্রোহীদের এমন ঘোষণায় না চাইলেও রাজনীতিবিদদের সমর্থন দেওয়া ছাড়া কিছু করার নেই। বিদ্রোহীদের এ ঘোষণায় জনসমর্থনও রয়েছে ব্যাপক। এই জনসমর্থনকেও উপেক্ষা করতে পারেন না কোন রাজনীতিক।

ভৌগোলিক অবস্থান বেলুচিস্তানকে কৌশলগতভাবে গুরুত্বপূর্ণ করে তুলেছে। ইরানের সীমান্ত পর্যন্ত বিস্তৃত প্রদেশটির সমুদ্র উপকূল। হরমুজ প্রণালির ঠিক সামনে গিয়েই শেষ হয়েছে এ উপকূল রেখা। বিশ্বের মোট তেল সরবরাহের ৩০ শতাংশ এই হরমুজ প্রণালি অতিক্রম করে।

ন্যাটো বাহিনী বরাবরই অভিযোগ করে আসছে, তালেবান সদস্যদের নিয়োগ ও প্রশিক্ষণ প্রদানের প্রধান কেন্দ্র হচ্ছে বেলুচিস্তান। বেলুচিস্তান থেকে হামলা চালানোর অভিযোগও ইরানের রয়েছে। সুন্নি জঙ্গিগোষ্ঠী জুনদুল্লাহ প্রতিবেশি সিস্তান জাহেদান প্রদেশে ধারাবাহিক বোমা হামলায় বলে অভিযোগ ইরানের।
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  #48  
Old December 16, 2012, 11:37 PM
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Sohel Sohel is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BANFAN
Views in Pakistan is changing ... Even though very slowly.
First of all, thank you for posting this. It is always good to see such things. That being said, there has always been a miniscule group of Pakistani intellectuals that has advocated coming clean and doing the right thing, so we've seen this before. They all seem to be connected to The Dawn in one way or another. Hamid Mir and my good friend Saadiya Ahmed come to mind right away.

As to what kind of impact if any such scholarly folks have in changing the typical public perception in that country is highly debatable. I don't share your optimism, as guarded as it is. As much as I'd love to see them do the right thing for their own sake, Pakistanis and what's left of their dysfunctional state has no real relevance in my life, to be honest. They're simply not relevant enough for me to support having diplomatic relations with them until they do those right things.

"Views in Pakistan" in that sense won't change until the real influencers, all directly connected to Pakistan's crimes against humanity and the Bangladeshi people in 1971, begin to come clean themselves. I don't see the Muslim League(s), the PPP, Jamaat-i-Islami, the Military-Industrial Complex, the Civil Service and the mainstream Civil Society with deep connections to the establishment taking any meaningful steps. Until and unless they do, public perception on 1971 generated though a carefully woven web of lies and misguidance won't change much either.
__________________
"And do not curse those who call on other than GOD, lest they blaspheme and curse GOD, out of ignorance. We have adorned the works of every group in their eyes. Ultimately, they return to their Lord, then He informs them of everything they had done." (Qur'an 6:108)

Last edited by Sohel; December 17, 2012 at 12:33 AM..
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  #49  
Old January 2, 2013, 11:45 AM
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মুসলিম লীগ ‘মুসলমানদের নিজের দেশ’ ধারণাকে তাদের সব রোগের ঔষধ হিসেবে উপস্থাপনে সফল হল— আইডিয়াটি জনসমর্থনও পেল। অপরদিকে, ১৯৪৬ সালের নির্বাচনে হকের প্রজা পার্টি মারাত্মক বিপর্যয়ের মুখে পড়লো— তারা পেল মাত্র ৪টি আসন যার দু’টি ছিল হকের নিজের। এর বিপরীতে মুসলিম লীগের স্বপ্ন পূরণ হলো— বাংলায় সংরক্ষিত ১১৭টি মুসলিম আসনের মধ্যে তারা পেল ১১০টি।

মুসলিম লীগের হোসেন শহীদ সোহরাওয়ার্দি সরকার গঠন করলেন বাংলায়। ১৯৪৬ সালের আগস্টে হিন্দু-মুসলিম দাঙ্গা বাঁধলো। সাম্প্রদায়িক ওই দাঙ্গার রক্তস্রোত যেসব জায়গায় বইলো তার সবখানেই হিন্দু-মুসলিম সীমানার সূচনা করলো। ১৯৪৬ সালের সেপ্টেম্বরে হক মুসলিম লীগে যোগ দিলেন এবং দেশ বিভাগের পর ঢাকায় চলে এলেন। তিনি পূর্ব পাকিস্তান সরকারের অ্যাডভোকেট জেনারেল হিসেবে দায়িত্ব পালন শুরু করলেন।

PART 2 AND 3
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  #50  
Old January 2, 2013, 12:02 PM
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BANFAN BANFAN is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sohel
First of all, thank you for posting this. It is always good to see such things. That being said, there has always been a miniscule group of Pakistani intellectuals that has advocated coming clean and doing the right thing, so we've seen this before. They all seem to be connected to The Dawn in one way or another. Hamid Mir and my good friend Saadiya Ahmed come to mind right away.

As to what kind of impact if any such scholarly folks have in changing the typical public perception in that country is highly debatable. I don't share your optimism, as guarded as it is. As much as I'd love to see them do the right thing for their own sake, Pakistanis and what's left of their dysfunctional state has no real relevance in my life, to be honest. They're simply not relevant enough for me to support having diplomatic relations with them until they do those right things.

"Views in Pakistan" in that sense won't change until the real influencers, all directly connected to Pakistan's crimes against humanity and the Bangladeshi people in 1971, begin to come clean themselves. I don't see the Muslim League(s), the PPP, Jamaat-i-Islami, the Military-Industrial Complex, the Civil Service and the mainstream Civil Society with deep connections to the establishment taking any meaningful steps. Until and unless they do, public perception on 1971 generated though a carefully woven web of lies and misguidance won't change much either.
Completely agree with you. Although it's at a slow pace but it's good that it's changing. Many Pakistanis that I meet these days, do agree to the mistakes they made. I'm not too optimistic of a massive change in public perceptions, but the way Pak is heading, you never know it may happen sooner than we expect.

While separation of Pakistan has been the result of poor political principles pursued by the western parties (ML), it's interesting that we also had our share of mistakes and short sighted actions. How could we not vote for Fazlul Haq's Krishok proja party and vote for Sohrawardi's Muslim league.... ? Haven't our people tried to be more Muslims than Bangali at some point? That should have encouraged Muslim league further to ignore us, because they felt we can be fooled so easily... Then why not?? And then, being rejected by the people of Bengal, FH didn't any option but to join Muslim League.
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